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post #1 of 26 Old 07-18-2014, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Small or Large for my kind of setup ?

I can either set my speakers to small (5.1) with 80hz crossover and subwoofer(8" jamo sub 250) at 9 to 10oclock position or just forget about my sub and run my fronts (jamo s608) at large setting. They both have a 10" woofer. I use my system for movies.

Subwoofer goes down to 30hz and woofers to 37hz. Isnt it logic to unplug my subwoofer and use my fronts as large because of the bigger woofers ?(10 inches)
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post #2 of 26 Old 07-18-2014, 10:52 AM
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The problem with using your mains to reproduce the lows is the ideal location for stereo imaging is almost never the ideal location for the best room bass response. You can place your sub wherever is best for low frequency reproduction but you can't put your mains there.
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post #3 of 26 Old 07-18-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post
I can either set my speakers to small (5.1) with 80hz crossover and subwoofer(8" jamo sub 250) at 9 to 10oclock position or just forget about my sub and run my fronts (jamo s608) at large setting. They both have a 10" woofer. I use my system for movies.

Subwoofer goes down to 30hz and woofers to 37hz. Isnt it logic to unplug my subwoofer and use my fronts as large because of the bigger woofers ?(10 inches)

I don't think an 8" sub would do much of a job with home theater but that's because of inexperience on my part. I've only had one 8" sub and it wasn't very effective. In your shoes I would probably run the mains as large and add the subwoofer as well. That little sub could probably use all the help it can get.
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-18-2014, 06:05 PM
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Or, upgrade the sub.
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post #5 of 26 Old 07-18-2014, 08:40 PM
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If you can run your mains as large, and still use the sub, I encourage that. I've been doing it for years with great results. The more speakers that run the low frequencies the better...within reason I guess.
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post #6 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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If you can run your mains as large, and still use the sub, I encourage that. I've been doing it for years with great results. The more speakers that run the low frequencies the better...within reason I guess.
How can i use the subwoofer to handle frequencies only below 40hz ? While my fronts are set to large.
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post #7 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 04:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post
How can i use the subwoofer to handle frequencies only below 40hz ? While my fronts are set to large.
Seems like a really strange thing to do. Why are you afraid of a crossover at 80 Hz?
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post #8 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post
How can i use the subwoofer to handle frequencies only below 40hz ? While my fronts are set to large.
Powered subwoofers have a crossover control as part of the plate amp. There is knob on the back usually labeled frequency. However, it is pretty good bet that setting it at 40hz is likely to remove it from the mix. I don't hink 8" woofers will go as low as 40hz and, if they do, it wouldn't be with much SPL. Set the crossover at 80 hz in the receiver and leave the crossover conrol on the plate amp wide open.
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post #9 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Powered subwoofers have a crossover control as part of the plate amp. There is knob on the back usually labeled frequency. However, it is pretty good bet that setting it at 40hz is likely to remove it from the mix. I don't hink 8" woofers will go as low as 40hz and, if they do, it wouldn't be with much SPL. Set the crossover at 80 hz in the receiver and leave the crossover conrol on the plate amp wide open.
So i'll leave everything as it is. Crossover on the back of the sub to its max and crossover in the avr at 80hz with every speaker to small and sub set to about 9 to 10 oclock position with 0dB from avr.
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 11:26 AM
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So i'll leave everything as it is. Crossover on the back of the sub to its max and crossover in the avr at 80hz with every speaker to small and sub set to about 9 to 10 oclock position with 0dB from avr.
No, I suggested you put the main speakers to large to help out the subwoofer.
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post #11 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I suggested you put the main speakers to large to help out the subwoofer.
Ok ... i never tried the fronts at large while the sub was on. I'll give it a try ... sounds good. Bass from the subwoofwer and fronts sounds good. Double bass should be set to off , right ?
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post #12 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post
Ok ... i never tried the fronts at large while the sub was on. I'll give it a try ... sounds good. Bass from the subwoofwer and fronts sounds good. Double bass should be set to off , right ?
Wrong. That would turn off the sub.
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post #13 of 26 Old 07-19-2014, 02:52 PM
 
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No, I suggested you put the main speakers to large to help out the subwoofer.
IMO that is a bad idea as few main speakers have bass that is in the same zipcode as even mediocre subwoofers. One of the benefits of subwoofers is that they offload the main speakers which can have very audible benefits.

Any subwoofer that needs help needs replacement with a good one.
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post #14 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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IMO that is a bad idea as few main speakers have bass that is in the same zipcode as even mediocre subwoofers. One of the benefits of subwoofers is that they offload the main speakers which can have very audible benefits.

Any subwoofer that needs help needs replacement with a good one.
Can you recommend a new subwoofer ? My room is kind of small and i can hear some lows very loud and clear at a high volume. Maybe a 10'' or a 12'' will be more than enough.
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post #15 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
IMO that is a bad idea as few main speakers have bass that is in the same zipcode as even mediocre subwoofers. One of the benefits of subwoofers is that they offload the main speakers which can have very audible benefits.

Any subwoofer that needs help needs replacement with a good one.
Arny, it is only a bad idea if you have a competent subwoofer. This fellow's main speakers outperform his sub. I'm just showing him how to include the sub in the mix.
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post #16 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post
How can i use the subwoofer to handle frequencies only below 40hz ? While my fronts are set to large.
You're not being clear about what it is you want to do but depending upon your AVR, you should have a setting that duplicates the bass from your LARGE front channels at the subwoofer. This may be called "LFE+Main", "LFE+", "LFE Plus", "Double Bass", etc.. And depending upon what AVR you have, you might also still be able to set the "crossover" setting for the LARGE front channels when using this double bass setting. If so, the frequency you choose (in this case, 40Hz) will be the low-pass frequency for the front channel bass that is being duplicated at the subwoofer when using the double bass setting.

What is your AVR?



You might also want to consider setting your AVR up as having NO SUB connected and connecting the subwoofer to the front channels, either via speaker-level connections or by using your AVR's front pre-outs (if so-equipped). This will spread the LFE channel, the front channel bass, and any rerouted bass from any channels that are set to SMALL across the front speakers and subwoofer. It requires a subwoofer with a variable low-pass filter (most have this; often incorrectly called its "crossover") as you will adjust the sub's low-pass frequency to the front speakers' in-room roll-off.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #17 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 11:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post
Can you recommend a new subwoofer ? My room is kind of small and i can hear some lows very loud and clear at a high volume. Maybe a 10'' or a 12'' will be more than enough.
What is your budget and what are your expectations?

People are saying nice things about the Outlaw LFM-1EX, but it might be a bit pricey.
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post #18 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 11:32 AM
 
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Arny, it is only a bad idea if you have a competent subwoofer. This fellow's main speakers outperform his sub. I'm just showing him how to include the sub in the mix.
I'm not convinced that his main speakers have more bass dynamic range than even his fairly weak subwoofer. A quick scan of the thread turns up some manufacturer's specs with no dB tolerance or SPLs, and we all know about those. I seem to recall reading about speakers with 4 1/2" drivers that claim response down to 35 Hz Even a fairly mediocre 8" subwoofer would be likely to outperform them.
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post #19 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
I'm not convinced that his main speakers have more bass dynamic range than even his fairly weak subwoofer. A quick scan of the thread turns up some manufacturer's specs with no dB tolerance or SPLs, and we all know about those. I seem to recall reading about speakers with 4 1/2" drivers that claim response down to 35 Hz Even a fairly mediocre 8" subwoofer would be likely to outperform them.
I will stay with everything set to small with 80hz crossover so that the subwoofer handles the LFE. The best volume for the best bass clarity and clear lows is between 9 to 10clock position with +4dB subwoofer level from the receiver. Will a 10'' or 12'' subwoofer gives me more bass with the same oclock position as my current one ?
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post #20 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post
You're not being clear about what it is you want to do but depending upon your AVR, you should have a setting that duplicates the bass from your LARGE front channels at the subwoofer. This may be called "LFE+Main", "LFE+", "LFE Plus", "Double Bass", etc.. And depending upon what AVR you have, you might also still be able to set the "crossover" setting for the LARGE front channels when using this double bass setting. If so, the frequency you choose (in this case, 40Hz) will be the low-pass frequency for the front channel bass that is being duplicated at the subwoofer when using the double bass setting.

What is your AVR?



You might also want to consider setting your AVR up as having NO SUB connected and connecting the subwoofer to the front channels, either via speaker-level connections or by using your AVR's front pre-outs (if so-equipped). This will spread the LFE channel, the front channel bass, and any rerouted bass from any channels that are set to SMALL across the front speakers and subwoofer. It requires a subwoofer with a variable low-pass filter (most have this; often incorrectly called its "crossover") as you will adjust the sub's low-pass frequency to the front speakers' in-room roll-off.
I will stay with everything set to small with 80hz crossover so that the subwoofer handles the LFE. The best volume for the best bass clarity and clear lows is between 9 to 10clock position with +4dB subwoofer level from the receiver. Will a 10'' or 12'' subwoofer gives me more bass with the same oclock position as my current one ?
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post #21 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Next thing is to upgrade the subwoofer. What does a bigger subwoofer driver really offers over my 8'' ? The room is square and subwoofer's best position is in the right front corner. Room dimensions are 12ft x 12ft (LXW) and 9ft (Height).

I just want a very good bang for the buck sub that my friends can get impressed with when watching iron man or Transformers
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post #22 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 02:03 PM
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Before I room eq'ed my subwoofers, I had much smoother response with the mains running full range along with my subwoofers. The more speakers producing bass frequencies in different spots the smoother the response in many cases but that is of course most noticeable in the upper bass as my mains don't have the same authority as my subs down lower, like say 50hz and down. Now that I've eq'ed the subs, I'm finding much less of an improvement running my mains full range vs crossed over at 80hz. I was just experimenting with that yesterday, going back and forth between 80hz on the mains vs full range. In fact, it may actually be better now with the mains at 80hz, but it wasn't before the subs were eq'ed.
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post #23 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 02:21 PM
 
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I will stay with everything set to small with 80hz crossover so that the subwoofer handles the LFE.
I hope that this is what sounds best in accordance with good guidelines for what constitutes good sound.

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The best volume for the best bass clarity and clear lows is between 9 to 10clock position with +4dB subwoofer level from the receiver.
OK.

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Will a 10'' or 12'' subwoofer gives me more bass with the same oclock position as my current one ?
That is an unanswerable question because it is so general and so many variables are unknown. It is also a question that need not be answered.

But since you asked: Probably not.
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post #24 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope that this is what sounds best in accordance with good guidelines for what constitutes good sound.



OK.



That is an unanswerable question because it is so general and so many variables are unknown. It is also a question that need not be answered.

But since you asked: Probably not.
That is what sounds best. Considering my sub is in the corner and my room is not big , at 9 oclock to 10 oclock position , it gives me the best bass , headroom , and lows can be felt as well. When i tried 12 o clock there was alot of bass , some of it was unwanted !!
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post #25 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 02:27 PM
 
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Next thing is to upgrade the subwoofer. What does a bigger subwoofer driver really offers over my 8'' ?
All other things being equal, a larger subwoofer driver has the potential to produce cleaner bass at lower frequencies.

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The room is square and subwoofer's best position is in the right front corner. Room dimensions are 12ft x 12ft (LXW) and 9ft (Height).
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N
I just want a very good bang for the buck sub that my friends can get impressed with when watching iron man or Transformers
One of the best value subwoofers that I know of is the Bic Acoustech PL200 and another less costly but still a good value for the money is the Bic America F12.

Good bass sound especially in an atypical room is not a slam dunk, but having a subwoofer with good bass extension and dynamic range is a good start.
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post #26 of 26 Old 07-20-2014, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
All other things being equal, a larger subwoofer driver has the potential to produce cleaner bass at lower frequencies.





One of the best value subwoofers that I know of is the Bic Acoustech PL200 and another less costly but still a good value for the money is the Bic America F12.

Good bass sound especially in an atypical room is not a slam dunk, but having a subwoofer with good bass extension and dynamic range is a good start.
You mean what ? Doesnt a bigger subwoofer with proper tweaking sounds alot better than a properly tweaked 8'' sub ?
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