Think Harman are averse to ripping off audiophools? Think again. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 07-25-2014, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Think Harman are averse to ripping off audiophools?

It seems a user bought a pair of used Revel Salon 2 speakers that were missing their audiophool biwiring jumpers. The replacements cost over $90 each (x4). Here is the post. That post made me want to sell my JBL LSR6332 speakers. Of course, the entire reason for the existence of these $91.07 jumpers is to satisfy the audiophool market in the first place.

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post #2 of 25 Old 07-25-2014, 10:18 PM
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How does a division that makes Revel speakers affect your judgement of another division that makes pro audio speakers like the LSR6332's?

To me, this is like getting mad at Ford because somebody made a bad Lincoln-Mercury on a Thursday. Crap happens.
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-25-2014, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Bad analogy. One is an accident, and the other is quite deliberate.

Are you an employee?
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-25-2014, 10:29 PM
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These?

If I use the part number I get this.

No no no... The Silver version must be it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
It seems a user bought a pair of used Revel Salon 2 speakers that were missing their audiophool biwiring jumpers. The replacements cost over $90 each (x4). Here is the post. That post made me want to sell my JBL LSR6332 speakers. Of course, the entire reason for the existence of these $91.07 jumpers is to satisfy the audiophool market in the first place.
"Designed primarily for the OEM market to meet strict European CE safety standards, the WBT-0725 Cu/Ag Power Bridge replaces the brass jumpers found as standard equipment on most speakers.

Uninsulated jumpers are no longer legal in Europe as they pose a shock threat due to a lack of insulation. A popular alternative to the brass jumper is a jumper cable. However, these also are no longer legal as one end can come undone and present a shock hazard as well."

I'll be back later...


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post #5 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
These?

If I use the part number I get this.

No no no... The Silver version must be it.




"Designed primarily for the OEM market to meet strict European CE safety standards, the WBT-0725 Cu/Ag Power Bridge replaces the brass jumpers found as standard equipment on most speakers.

Uninsulated jumpers are no longer legal in Europe as they pose a shock threat due to a lack of insulation. A popular alternative to the brass jumper is a jumper cable. However, these also are no longer legal as one end can come undone and present a shock hazard as well."
And we thought California has a nutty legislature.
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
And we thought California has a nutty legislature.
There is no legislation in Europe that demands this. Most consumer speaker (and amplifiers) selling in Europe are still equipped with bare terminals that can be 'undone'.


That claim is a scam to fool people to buy into an overpriced jumper. It's fraud.
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
...The replacements cost over $90 each (x4)....
I don't understand how buying used speakers is a Harman issue.

Also $1 worth of speaker wire will fix the problem?
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 07:01 AM
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Anyone can rip off an audiophool. Without even trying.
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 02:27 PM
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Well, the title accuses Harman of performing a "rip off", and from what I see, they are charging (assuming it is the silver jumper) a not unreasonable price (similar to what is charged by other vendors of the item).

I'd come up with a different solution too, from the scrap pile.

On the other hand, I need a fuse for my Fluke 87.

It's $9. It's just a little thing. Costs more by weight than the silver biwire jumpers above.

Are measurement scientists being ripped off too?


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post #10 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
There is no legislation in Europe that demands this. Most consumer speaker (and amplifiers) selling in Europe are still equipped with bare terminals that can be 'undone'. That claim is a scam to fool people to buy into an overpriced jumper. It's fraud.
It's a WBT product. What else would you expect?
What is going away in Europe is banana plugs/jacks, because they can too easily be mixed up with AC plugs/jacks in some countries.

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post #11 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 02:55 PM
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Banana plugs going away? Must be an urban myth They are still available in hundreds of different varieties.
Perhaps for some equipment with the19.05mm spacing it is problematic to get certified.




Without banana plugs progress in science and engineering is doomed.
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
...
No no no... The Silver version must be it.
...
Well, if you read what they wrote, it is not solid silver as they mention Cu/Ag. So, it is silver coated copper and insulated.
I wonder why anyone would play with that jumper while the system is in operation. Must be to protect the fools?
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 04:08 PM
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Not SOLID?!?!

Oh well. Back to watching Kenny Omega vs OSHINIKO.

At least I know THAT'S real.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
Well, the title accuses Harman of performing a "rip off", and from what I see, they are charging (assuming it is the silver jumper) a not unreasonable price (similar to what is charged by other vendors of the item).

I'd come up with a different solution too, from the scrap pile.

On the other hand, I need a fuse for my Fluke 87.

It's $9. It's just a little thing. Costs more by weight than the silver biwire jumpers above.

Are measurement scientists being ripped off too?

You should look into it again. That $9 might be for a box of ten.
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
You should look into it again. That $9 might be for a box of ten.
Maybe you should : http://www.myflukestore.com/p8770/Fl...SE_11A_1000VB1

Fluke FUSE-11A/1000VB1

Model: FUSE-11A/1000VB1

(P/N 203403) FUSE 11A 1000V FAST QTY 1 BLISTER PACK

$13.98 USD


Fuses for my generator transfer switch were something like $20. I thought I found a bargain when I saw 4-5 in a package for the same price on ebay. Well, what showed up was used, worn out fuses! You could see the oxidation on them. They had taken them out of equipment and reselling them.

Safety fuses are expensive.

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post #16 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
Banana plugs going away? Must be an urban myth They are still available in hundreds of different varieties.
Perhaps for some equipment with the19.05mm spacing it is problematic to get certified.

Without banana plugs progress in science and engineering is doomed.
Having lived in Europe, the safety exposure is pretty obvious and has a strong potential for a bad accident. It's easy enough to mistakenly plug banana plugs into a wall socket and connect 240 VAC to your speakers or amps. It all started when someone decided to make the pins round, and about the same thickness as a standard banana plug.

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post #17 of 25 Old 07-26-2014, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
It seems a user bought a pair of used Revel Salon 2 speakers that were missing their audiophool biwiring jumpers. The replacements cost over $90 each (x4).
Why do you want an OEM part for this? I'm sure you have the skills and nous to make your own, and if not BJC probably do them for much less.

Whilst surely charging a premium for these, it's not in the same park as the Oppo/Lexicon deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
On the other hand, I need a fuse for my Fluke 87.

It's $9. It's just a little thing.

Are measurement scientists being ripped off too?

Ouch. Last week at work I blew four of them at once when conducting a large test.
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 08:06 AM
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I have seen AVRs and speakers for sale in Europe that appear to use conventional five-way binding posts, but the center of the post is plugged so they will not accept banana plugs.

The Fluke (and other brands, not just Fluke) meter fuses are a PITA. The problem is they are special fast-blow fuses with limited sales (not mass-market items) so Fluke charges an arm and a leg. I have found them (or rather our techs have) for $3 - $5 each from electronic distributors in bulk (10 or 12 packs) but I think $10 or so for a single is about right. Thermal fuses for microwave ovens are also pricey little buggers.

Wait until you have to buy a tiny little microwave adapter for $1200...

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post #19 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Why do you want an OEM part for this? I'm sure you have the skills and nous to make your own, ....
Nous?
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
Well, the title accuses Harman of performing a "rip off", and from what I see, they are charging (assuming it is the silver jumper) a not unreasonable price (similar to what is charged by other vendors of the item).

I'd come up with a different solution too, from the scrap pile.

On the other hand, I need a fuse for my Fluke 87.

It's $9. It's just a little thing. Costs more by weight than the silver biwire jumpers above.

Are measurement scientists being ripped off too?

At one of my employers we had a 160kva UPS system, big unit, 480volts 3 phase in and out. I handled the maintenance myself, forget that $15,000 per year service contract. There were 3/4amp fuses of the same size you show in some of the circuits that cost $90 each. They were made by Bussman and were called "semiconductor protection" fuses. These would isolate the gate drive on the 250amp power transistors if one shorted otherwise the downstream damage to the inverter drive system would be catastrophic. They had to blow reliably within microseconds.

So there are common sized fuses that cost even more than audiophile fuses.

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post #21 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
Nous?
Are you unable to use google?
Nous.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Are you unable to use google?
Nous.
https://www.prismnet.com/~hcexres/style/pompous_words.hml

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post #23 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 04:09 PM
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Only because of your limited vocabulary and need to project. My late Grandfather used it all the time and would never have been called pompous.
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Only because of your limited vocabulary and need to project. My late Grandfather used it all the time and would never have been called pompous.
There was no need to be snide in your response to charmerci: "Are you unable to use Google?"

And my vocabulary is anything but limited. I, however, know how to pick words that convey the intended meaning without requiring readers to use Google. It's great that your grandfather used it all the time, but it's in no way a word in common use today.

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post #25 of 25 Old 07-27-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
Stop being an @ss. There was no need to be snide in your response to charmerci: "Are you unable to use Google?"
If it don't understand something, and context should have made it apparent anyway, I check first myself, especially if I was not the one being responded to. Doing so would have gotten him the answer in less time than it took to type the response here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
I, however, know how to pick words that convey the intended meaning without requiring readers to use Google. It's great that your grandfather used it all the time, but it's in no way a word in common use today.
I speak how I speak, and if you don't like that, IDGAF. Because it may not be common where you are does not mean I still don't hear it and use it where I am, and I feel no need to tailor my way of expression to suit you.

No one needs you to be the feeling police. Stop looking like an @ss yourself.

"He who takes offense when offense was not intended is a fool"

Go away.
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