AVS/AIX High-Resolution Audio Test: The Results So Far - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
It is common knowledge among experienced tape ops.

http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/accurate.html

"Magnetic damage -- tape erasure -- can come from the tape recorder itself (magnetized heads or guides), or from other fields."

MRL is an authoritative source in these matters. I used to use their alignment tapes.

Feel free to disprove it yourself since you are already equipped with fairly rare equipment that is required to do the test.
I made no assertion one way or the other as to go and disprove myself. Comment was made about audibility:

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Originally Posted by antoniobiz1 View Post
Exactly, at best it will sound the same. Let's say it does. Problem is, next time your analog tape will not sound the same, because a little bit of your magnetic coating will fall off, and a little bit more will change its orientation and turn into noise.
And I pretended to be you and asked for a listening test. Was hoping you would answer and try to get out of going that route which you did.

Seriously, you are saying it is common knowledge that on second playback of tape it has already degraded enough to be audible?

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post #332 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
It is common knowledge among experienced tape ops.

http://home.comcast.net/~mrltapes/accurate.html

"Magnetic damage -- tape erasure -- can come from the tape recorder itself (magnetized heads or guides), or from other fields."

MRL is an authoritative source in these matters. I used to use their alignment tapes.

Feel free to disprove it yourself since you are already equipped with fairly rare equipment that is required to do the test.
Forgot about that I used to have to demagnetize my cassette decks and RtR machines and now that you mention it, it seems like some of the tapes would lose 'something' over the years with frequent use .... or maybe it was the machines or both ?

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #333 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post
The content I have and listen to on tape which amazes me is old analog second generation masters. No digital versions of these existed when these recordings were made. As such, it is impossible for any digital capture of them now to outperform them in any way. At best it will sound the same.
You say "at best it will sound the same". I think it is true the opposite: at worst it will sound the same. Unless you're saying that your tapes do not degrade over time and repeated playback.

By the way, it would be kind of interesting seeing you applying on your tapes the same methods you used to pass the AVS ABX tests. Play for one second, stop, rewind, play again the same second. For a couple of hours. I'm guessing those tapes would not survive (or, at best, they would take a severe beating). This poses an interesting question: is it fair to do on digital media, in order to pass a test, what you can't do on analog media?
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post #334 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Forgot about that I used to have to demagnetize my cassette decks and RtR machines and now that you mention it, it seems like some of the taped would lose 'something' over the years with frequent use .... or maybe it was the machines or both ?
I owned few thousand cassette tapes (all stolen from me by a bad apple), and several commercial ones you could hear the music playing from the other side. ...And after a while the music simply vanished into a world of misery.

Those were the good years. ...The disco years. ...With Yello and the rest of the gang.
...Just after 8-track tapes (60s).

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post #335 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
tubetwist, I was going to edit your quote above and only reply to some interesting sections...
But after reading it I left it in its total entirety. ...Because I like it all.
Quote:
The bonus video that I provided I simply shared it because it does sound "really" good for a YouTube video;
I was impressed, no doubt about it
.
I went to that website that made the video and looked around almost had to dig my way our of the $%&* there with a shovel !

Yes the You Tube video didn't sound bad I'm thinking it was at least 192 kbps vbr AAC .

Quote:
I don't know the resolution, but I know music when I hear it.
Nothing wrong with high bit rate AAC or even some well done high bit rate mp3 lotta times it's hard to tell
the difference from Red book 16/44.1 that's been proven by widely accepted scientific methods like the ABX testing
Arny invented .

Quote:
Open-real tape decks and tapes are hi-res analog music medium. I used to record my own playing on one of those German models. ...And it was a portable one, just like my studio guitar.

The best quality sound I have ever heard in my life is first Live, then R2R, and last SACD (DSD pure).
Those are all analog mediums.
No problem believing that ......The Germans invented magnetic tape recording in 40's I believe I've read the
early Amprex RtR tape machines were derived from captured German machines .

Clever folks those Germans no? They had V2 rockets and jet planes too well before anyone else Allies brought those home also . Our Redstone rocket that took our first manned space capsule up into sub orbit (Alan Sheppard ) was directly descended from the German V2. as are some current rocket motors .

Some of the SACD stiff didn't turn out well at all, some was good , some not so hot but not because of the format .

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Enjoy this beautiful and sunny Sunday afternoon with an after-brunch delight.
...A chocolate mint with a dry martini, shaken but not stirred.
A proper Beefeaters dry gin martini shaken with a green cocktail olive wold be good or maybe a Stoli mojito .

Quote:
P.S. tube, you should register as a member over @ WBF, and share your knowledge with all them very knowledgeable members in very friendly entourage. I think you'll do extremely well there.

Arny and John (Stereo Phile Editor) and Amir are all members too. ...And Peter too, the guy who shot that video.
Arnys cool and all but TBH I don't always share the same viewpoints as the other two plus I gotta keep the folks around here fair and balanced besides ! Any cute single really rich babes over there ?

Gotta go time to check on my home brew nuclear powered steam turbine electrical power generator made from eastern block black market nuclear material and make some cash selling power back to the grid
have to make sure the well pumps are bringing up enough water and all to keep things regular

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #336 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:07 PM
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Did you say cute single rich babes? ...Wanna link?
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post #337 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Did you say cute single rich babes? ...Wanna link?
You know somebody ? Actually I've got to shut down the reactor soon for a refuel it's very time consuming and all
and I'm working on a time travel RX7 . I want go back to 1957 hang around a bit , play some tunes on a Seeburg100B or 100G or H juke box and bring back a few brand new 57 bel airs , a 300 C and a tanker vette also , but I can't can't quite get the flux capacitors working right lot's to do .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #338 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:20 PM
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Just PM me, I'll hook you up.
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post #339 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:31 PM
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Just PM me, I'll hook you up.
Maybe when I figure the RX 7 thing out and get back with the cars ☺☺☺

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #340 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:35 PM
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That RX7 thing; is that a Yamaha receiver or a sportscar (Triumph)?
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post #341 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
That RX7 thing; is that a Yamaha receiver or a sportscar (Triumph)?
King of the drifting world !............. I just gotta make it drift into 1957 and back that's all or maybe stay there ?


http://www.annisos.com/image-resolut...wallpapers.jpg

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #342 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:49 PM
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Sorry pal to deceive you but the Alfa Romeo is the King of drifters. ...And even the MGB; yours is just a fart.

* And your picture doesn't work; shows nothing.
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post #343 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 05:56 PM
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Ever drifted a tuned RX7.... I have ,I have one just for that not quite as rad as the one in the pix though a little older also
a 13B it's a tuned beater you would be surprised what drifters will pay for any Rx7 even broken under buckets . Last decent alfa was a 62 spyder veloce ☺☺MGB 's were never more than pretenders.

I liked the MGA's though they handled better than the B's didn't plow as much ,much better looking also .None of those old girls could drift with an RX 7 though

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #344 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniobiz1 View Post
You say "at best it will sound the same". I think it is true the opposite: at worst it will sound the same. Unless you're saying that your tapes do not degrade over time and repeated playback.
Let me see if I can get us back on track. Arny made an off-topic comment about me considering tape listening a superlative experience. I explained how it is. It is that way in the first playing and follow ons.

I am not here to convince you to adopt tape, or care about it one way or the other. As I said, this was an off-topic comment by Arny and I have addressed it.

Quote:
By the way, it would be kind of interesting seeing you applying on your tapes the same methods you used to pass the AVS ABX tests. Play for one second, stop, rewind, play again the same second. For a couple of hours. I'm guessing those tapes would not survive (or, at best, they would take a severe beating). This poses an interesting question: is it fair to do on digital media, in order to pass a test, what you can't do on analog media?
Science doesn't care about fairness. It has no conscious. DNA evidence can put the wrong person in jail or exonerate the innocent. The test does not care one bit in which way it is utilized. So there is no fairness doctrine here that applies.

That is clearly the situation here. I am sure it was not fair to Arny, Krab, etc. that we managed to tell files apart in double blind ABX tests. For 30+ years Arny has held a position that he has massively advertised on these forums that we have invalidated. I can just imagine the difficult position he is in but as I say, the data is the data. The test results don't care if they are fair or not fair to Arny any more than it would have been fair to me if we could not distinguish the results.

This is beside the point that I presented no challenge with respect to tape. I said I enjoy the format. Somehow that doesn't sit well with folks??? How come? I watched Lost in Translation on a flight to Japan on United airlines with the source a Hi8 tape, feeding the worlds worst 5 inch LCD display. Yet I enjoyed every minute of it. You all going to question me now that Hi8 tape doesn't look like Blu-ray and hence I couldn't have enjoyed the movie?

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post #345 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I owned few thousand cassette tapes (all stolen), . ...And after a while the music simply vanished into a world of misery).
Out of curiosity I once dismantled our building's telephone switching relay box to discover why people placed on hold were no longer getting hold music, a few decades ago. Inside I found an Aiwa cassette Walkman powered by a wall wart transformer. It was left on perpetual auto reverse mode and had been playing constantly 24/7 for months/years. I opened the cassette door and a big pile of dark brown tape oxide dust fell out. The magnetic tape had completely shed all of it coating due to friction/wear and had become just a clear polyester/mylar strip.

I think I figured out why people were no longer hearing hold music.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #346 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 06:48 PM
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Just in case; they were stolen, from me, by a bad dude. ...And my last memory told me that oxide/metal tape particles disintegrate over time.

Happened also with some laser discs and DVDs and LPs; @ the beginning, from rotten exposure, bad glue, bad pressings, bad batches, poor quality control, low tolerance to heat and cold, pinholes, broken edges, not centered holes, etc., etc., etc.

Tape is the worst medium; needs extreme care, and just don't last.

Nowadays we have SSD hard drives and the Cloud, and companies who upsample their music to hi-res audio using old cassette tapes as their masters.

P.S. To tube, I was just kidding about your bolide; the RX7. ...Again, just in case.

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post #347 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 07:11 PM
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Studios are well aware tape wears out and every single playback needs to be denoted and logged.

Wear out is also one of the reasons to make backup copies, and those copies are actually often the source for some LP pressings, not the original.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #348 of 457 Old 08-10-2014, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Redbook does not compress dynamic range,

I never said it did. I said Redbook *encompasses* the actual dynamic range of typical "high rez" releases. Which is to say, recordings that are truly 'high resolution' -- that really span >90 dB of dynamic range -- seem to be quite rare.
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post #349 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 03:35 AM
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I never said it did. I said Redbook *encompasses* the actual dynamic range of typical "high rez" releases.
The above is a proper correction of an error that I made in haste. My apologies to the victim and the entire forum. I will attempt to do better.
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post #350 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 04:04 PM
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Gather around folks for my new training for "How to hear the difference and ace an ABX test". We all know how important training is right? But unlike my last two methods of passing the ABX test, by listening alone and not cheating, where I refused to share the picky details due to my fear it would fall into the wrong hands and be used for fraud, NOW I'M GOING TO SPILL THE BEANS since I've already documented that the current versions of Mosaic A2 and B2 have a 10 to 11 millisecond delay between them, easily seen on my previously posted screen capture images.

Acoustical memory is short and easily distracted by exposure to unrelated material. Instead of focusing on the difference at the beginning of this short guitar section, focus on the sound of the last strings getting plucked at the end. These are the exact same two time sequences taken from Mosaic B2 and A2. I could have made the segments longer, say 10-20 seconds or even more, and the difference in the guitar pluck sound at the end would have been identical, but your memory for how it sounds wouldn't have been as intact.

Listen to the two for awhile and eventually you can hear a difference without even needing to alternate between the "Play A" and "Play B" buttons in foobar ABX [or whatever sighted comparison program you like using]; all you have to do is hit "Play X" in ABX and you can tell which one it is straight away without any assistance! Woo Hoo!

I just passed this test in record time, two minutes, no switching midstream between A and B at all, and in fact in many of my trials I never even had to hit any buttons except "Play X", I could tell which it was without even needing a quick refresher as to the sound of A or B!

Here's my very first attempt at ABXing them, planning ahead of time to do only 11 trials total, no matter how well I was doing, to make krabapple happy [He's right though.]:


foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.3.3
2014/08/11 12:40:10
File A: C:\Users\Me\Desktop\Mosaic_A2 excerpt taken from 1m52s.wav
File B: C:\Users\Me\Desktop\Mosaic_B2 excerpt taken from 1m52s.wav
12:40:10 : Test started.
12:40:27 : 01/01 50.0%
12:40:43 : 02/02 25.0%
12:40:52 : 03/03 12.5%
12:41:12 : 04/04 6.3%
12:41:29 : 05/05 3.1%
12:41:39 : 06/06 1.6%
12:41:49 : 07/07 0.8%
12:41:58 : 08/08 0.4%
12:42:09 : 09/09 0.2%
12:42:25 : 10/10 0.1%
12:42:34 : 11/11 0.0%
12:42:36 : Test finished.
----------
Total: 11/11 (0.0%)


I recommend listening to this short guitar excerpt from Mosaic B2 first, get acquainted with it, and then listen to the sonic character of the final guitar pluck sound at the very end of Mosaic A2:

[Go to this folder, then right click on each of the two .wav files it contains, to then select the download option]:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca

Do you hear it? I picked the same section I showed in my earlier screen shot so it would be easier to hear, but in theory such a difference may occur all over the place. I just took a stab at where I thought it would be prominent, and I was right, first try. Many people have mentioned they were focusing on the dynamics, too, so selecting such peaks is to be expected.

Don't fall for people saying, "Oh no, but it's not that I'm sensing at all." All they know is they are hearing some difference and it's human nature to attribute it to all sorts of other things than what it actually is. As JJ pointed out we know this from small < 1dB level changes; people almost always attribute it to "clarity", "detail", "three dimensionality", etc. instead of what it really is. It is just the way humans are; no reason to be ashamed of it, it's true of everyone.

Here's the take away moral to the story:

ANYONE WHO LISTENS TO A SEGMENT OF THESE SONGS, RATHER THAN THE ENTIRE SONG START TO END WITH NO SWITCHING MIDSTREAM, MAY VERY WELL BE SENSING EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE ILLUSTRATED TO YOU HERE, BUT THEY MAY NOT CONSCIOUSLY REALIZE IT IS WHAT THEY ARE KEYING OFF OF!

The reason the guitar pluck sounds different is because 10 milliseconds have been sliced off due to these files' time alignment problem and everyone using the segment selection option, which if I recall correctly everyone said they did, would similarly be having something sliced off as well.

Also don't fall for anyone telling you 10 milliseconds is too small to make any audible difference: YOU JUST HEARD IT YOURSELF!

[Note: I'm new to Audacity and I selected this short passage by eye and by hand. There may be more precise methods but I haven't learned them yet.]
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post #351 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaugster View Post
Your post # 289 makes sense to me and was basically the approach I as going for. By segments I am referring to 10 second to 30 second long parts of the song. Typically listing to a soft passage and the beginning and some sort of louder (forte?) segment towards the end. Basically comparing what I heard at the begining vs how it built up over a long period. ...


No way I would be flipping back and forth in some sort of manic fashion where perhaps the 10mS delta could be observed.
The time alignment problem would manifest itself exactly in the way you are using it, although you may not consciously realize it. No flipping back and forth is necessary. I could hear a difference without even needing to listen to A or B at all in some trials, no switching at all, all I had to hear was X and I could tell which it was by memory, alone.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #352 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Also don't fall for anyone telling you 10 milliseconds is too small to make any audible difference: YOU JUST HEARD IT YOURSELF!
Totally agree. My standard for time aligning files has long been 1 mSec because I've reliably heard misalignment on the order of 2-4 mSec way too many times.

I also don't know how a misalignment can creep into a test like this, but hey science is finding out about new things! ;-)
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post #353 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 05:05 PM
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I've read that some degree of latency is to be expected with these things. There is some feature in Sonic Solutions SRC called "latency compensation (factor?)" which may not work as planned depending on the gear used.


Did you try to download my files for this, to ABX Arny? I promise no HF hearing is necessary. I afterall heard it!

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #354 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Just in case; they were stolen, from me, by a bad dude. ...And my last memory told me that oxide/metal tape particles disintegrate over time.



P.S. To tube, I was just kidding about your bolide; the RX7. ...Again, just in case.
No worries it's just a beater for drifting anyway not a driver (also not at competition level ) it's not all that but it drifts pretty good !
Old cars MG,Triumph, Alfa don't have the characteristics (or horsepower ) to swing they booties out and keep them out for drifting OTOH wouldn't mind and MGA or 62 Spyder Veloce !

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #355 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The time alignment problem would manifest itself exactly in the way you are using it, although you may not consciously realize it. No flipping back and forth is necessary. I could hear a difference without even needing to listen to A or B at all in some trials, no switching at all, all I had to hear was X and I could tell which it was by memory, alone.
Based on your description above I do not believe that it would based on they way I hear and decide. I think you are inferring that you make a judgement at the absolute end (or beginning) of a musical passage with a hard and deliberate cut off.. This of course highlights the exact time difference and is cheating per your own determination. I don't do it this way but I guess it highlight the need for a 3rd party to run these tests so that the method of evaluation is as consistent as possible.

Glad my first judgement were done without the use of ABX testing schemes and just playing the tunes through the OPPO.

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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
ANYONE WHO LISTENS TO A SEGMENT OF THESE SONGS, RATHER THAN THE ENTIRE SONG START TO END WITH NO SWITCHING MIDSTREAM, MAY VERY WELL BE SENSING EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE ILLUSTRATED TO YOU HERE, BUT THEY MAY NOT CONSCIOUSLY REALIZE IT IS WHAT THEY ARE KEYING OFF OF!
Ahh, inductive reasoning... Be careful, you could get in trouble for doing that around here.

Also glad that I listed my time segments previously as to not get caught up in the ABX drama. I can make the call within the first minute or so using standard (Or should I say Hi REZ) HT equipment. It will be really cool to find out if I can do the same using foobar ABX...

I am not hip with drop box so could not listen to the sounds you were highlighting. Can you throw out some time stamps for Mosaic that you found to be a 'tell'?

Gaugster

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post #356 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 11:38 PM
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Did I understand that the tests being talked about here were not ABX close-switching tests, but rather sequential tests?

Really, now.

What IS the test form being used here?

James D. (jj) Johnston
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post #357 of 457 Old 08-11-2014, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaugster View Post
Based on your description above I do not believe that it would based on they way I hear and decide. I think you are inferring that you make a judgement at the absolute end (or beginning) of a musical passage with a hard and deliberate cut off.. This of course highlights the exact time difference and is cheating per your own determination.
Listening to a particular guitar riff isn't "cheating". Listening to only part of a song is quite a common practice in both sighted and blind comparisons. Foobar ABX allows both kinds but people can hear the problem even if they have nothing more sophisticated than a run-of-the-mill pause button, or in fact, even if they don't use that they may simply notice the added delay which occurs every time they play Mosaic A2.


What's next, people will contend they listen to these songs without ever hitting any "play" button?

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I don't do it this way...
You indicated you were listening to a "segment" though:
Quote:
Your post # 289 makes sense to me and was basically the approach I as going for. By segments I am referring to 10 second to 30 second long parts of the song. Typically listing to a soft passage and the beginning and some sort of louder (forte?) segment towards the end.
So this problem applies to you as well, regardless of how exactly you select your segment. [and yup, my demo is of a build up to a loud part too.] It doesn't matter if you select your segment in foobar, iTunes, Oppo remote control, or whatever, the problem is the same and it is due to the files being handed to us are slightly out of time alignment. One file has an added delay compared to the other and people can sense it in several different ways, even if they may not consciously realize it.

I didn't search for 50 different passages until I found one where it was audible, BTW; this was my very first stab at it so obviously it might also occur at any old place, if you have a good enough ear to notice it.

Quote:
I am not hip with drop box so could not listen to the sounds you were highlighting. Can you throw out some time stamps for Mosaic that you found to be a 'tell'?
The short guitar riff I'm using is part of the file's name: 1m52s

I'm not hip with dropbox either! Sorry if my files don't work, folks. [Help? Anyone?] So here's a Youtube video demonstrating the difference:
If the embedded version below isn't displayed, click its title "You Tube", across the top of the box, or simply search at Youtube (or Google) for:

"Mosaic A2 vs B2 excerpt at 1m52s"


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post #358 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 12:40 AM
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I think I have fixed the linked to folder that contains the two excerpts of Mosaic, A2 and B2, at dropbox? Please retry to download them now to compare the two:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca

Click on them to see the download option.

#@$^*! are they insisting you open an account to download them!? Grrr. Try clicking "No thanks, just download them" at the bottom and wait a few seconds.


Still having technical difficulties folks. Grrr. Sorry.
Still working on it everyone. Watch the youtube version above, for now, folks.


People, report to me if you can successfully download them. Thanks.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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Want to see an amazing demonstration of the power of suggestion, even though I'm telling you up front that's what I'm doing?


Watch the my Youtube video again and notice how the guitar in the top one, Mosaic A2, goes slightly upward in pitch overall, by the end, whereas the bottom one, Mosaic B2, it seems to go slightly downward in pitch overall by the end.


Tell me you didn't hear that!

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Want to see an amazing demonstration of the power of suggestion, even though I'm telling you up front that's what I'm doing?


Watch the my Youtube video again and notice how the guitar in the top one, Mosaic A2, goes slightly upward in pitch overall, by the end, whereas the bottom one, Mosaic B2, it seems to go slightly downward in pitch overall by the end.


Tell me you didn't hear that!
I think I heard the difference (slight ) or power of suggestion ? I still think I can hear it though good work there!
I still think we are watching paint dry for practical use of hires playback in a lot of cases though

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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