AVS/AIX High-Resolution Audio Test: The Results So Far - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I think I have fixed the linked to folder that contains the two excerpts of Mosaic, A2 and B2, at dropbox. Please retry to download them now to compare the two:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca

Click on them to see the download option.


#@$^*! are they insisting you open an account to download them!? Grrr. Try clicking "No thanks, just download them" at the bottom and wait a few seconds.


Still having technical difficulties. Grrr.
Still working on it everyone. Watch the you tube version for now, folks.


This any better?


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca
People, report to me if you can successfully download them. Thanks.
EZ to download with Chrome (daily driver here) Must be sighed into Google though you can either save to own Google drop box (cloud) or download normally , ofc I have all the usual accounts for Google and YouTube + Google Doc so none of that monkey business came up here. (see below )


EDIT update will not download in any browser without being signed into Google /You tube may not not need a drop box acct.

My Google acct will allow download. Must sign into Google /YouTube acct before going to download link
otherwise it won't download and prompts you to sign into a drop box acct . Does not do that if I am already sighed
into a Google You Tube acct .

ofc Google is default browser here and I have all the Google acct's including Google Docs . Google docks thing *may be* a spoiler ? I think it may be linked to Drop box since they both allow storage . No stand alone Drop box acct here though . It's worth a try for those that have Google You Tube acct's only or + Google doc . Same results in Firefox .

Files did not download in IE 11 which I don't use and run in protected mode for obvious reasons on the rare occasions I do use it. . (sometimes there are nasty things out there that can crawl out of IE 11 sandbox that can not crawl out of Google sand box .) I've deep cleaned and repaired more than a few windows X including 8x installs and had to re image or clean install some others IMO likely because of that for other folks and the occasional small business . I alwayse rec Chrome or Firefox browsers personally YMMV. It *may work * in IE X or XX outside of protected mode or lower sec. settings . IE fan boys need not reply ☺☺☺

Zillch you can host files here for free also (not a torrent site ) it's a legit free Drop Box alternative (they only charge you a few easily deleted browser cookies ☺☺ + no malware is present ) works very well have used for large files also very easy for recipients to use as well . https://www.wetransfer.com/
Even not so savvy end users can use it with ease ,Homer Simpson could probably use it . ☺☺

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
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post #362 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jj_0001 View Post
Did I understand that the tests being talked about here were not ABX close-switching tests, but rather sequential tests?
Really, now.
What IS the test form being used here?
This URL is the original post about the test.
Quote:
Because there are so many uncontrolled variables—different systems, different rooms—this experiment cannot be considered a rigorous scientific test by any means. Even more important, we have no way of verifying that participants aren't cheating by examining the spectra of the files and/or misinforming us about the capabilities of their systems. All we can do is appeal to your sense of fairness and honesty in the spirit of scientific inquiry. We believe this is an interesting exercise, and we hope you can participate.
AFAIK users are free to either use an ABX application (close-switching) or use sequential listening. Some users reported consistent positive ABX results, concluding that there is an audible difference between the hi-res and red-book version.
Any comments ?
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post #363 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees de Visser View Post
This URL is the original post about the test.

AFAIK users are free to either use an ABX application (close-switching) or use sequential listening.Some users reported consistent positive ABX results, concluding that there is an audible difference between the hi-res and red-book version.
Any comments?
Mostly slight occasional (unidentified as to cause ) anomaly AFAIK no legitamate OMG it's way better than 16/44.1 happenings and none of that monkey business here to report either on my 2 hires capable playback chains .

OTOH it seems Ziilch may have unearthed a possibly significant 10 mS time aligned discrepancy
that may account for some specific anomaly (s) in these particilar test files being discussed above and also in the linked You Tube videos above but AFAIK no OMG it's way better than 16/44.1 monkey business

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #364 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 08:39 AM
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Did I understand that the tests being talked about here were not ABX close-switching tests, but rather sequential tests?
Really, now.
What IS the test form being used here?
AIUI, the test consisted of 3 pairs of files, each including:

1) an original 24/96 recording

2) the same recording down-converted to 16/44.1 and then up-converted to 24/96 again

Subjects were asked to listen and identify which was the original file, and which had been through conversion.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #365 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post
AIUI, the test consisted of 3 pairs of files, each including:

1) an original 24/96 recording

2) the same recording down-converted to 16/44.1 and then up-converted to 24/96 again

Subjects were asked to listen and identify which was the original file, and which had been through conversion.
I think he'll have a field day with it.
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post #366 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees de Visser View Post
AFAIK users are free to either use an ABX application (close-switching) or use sequential listening. Some users reported consistent positive ABX results, concluding that there is an audible difference between the hi-res and red-book version.
Any comments ?
Indeed one can decide to run either test. The critical component for both types of tests were given which was the content.

Fact that we have run both types makes the case strong in that if we had not done any ABX, folks would say that the files are identical in fidelity and therefore all the other tests are invalid/biased. Now that we have positive ABX results, we know the difference is there and just matter of whether high res is better or not.

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post #367 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees de Visser View Post
AFAIK users are free to either use an ABX application (close-switching) or use sequential listening. Some users reported consistent positive ABX results, concluding that there is an audible difference between the hi-res and red-book version.
Any comments ?
ABX switching will reveal the time delay that was uncovered. Best to remove that and start over.

For sequential listening, I am tempted to do some analysis, but frankly, I'm kind of tired of this variety of argument.

I'd rather put a very specific signal or two through the down/upsampling chain, and see what emerges.

James D. (jj) Johnston
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post #368 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_0001 View Post
ABX switching will reveal the time delay that was uncovered. Best to remove that and start over.
Agreed. ABX is exactly how I first noticed the problem in the first place. Audacity was only used afterwards to verify and quantify it. ABX is a very powerful tool indeed and allowed me to pin point a problem through my $40, non "hi-res" headphones that seems to have eluded the detection of people who listened through systems that cost hundreds/thousands if not tens(?) of thousands of dollars (at least at a conscious level).

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post #369 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Listening to a particular guitar riff isn't "cheating". Listening to only part of a song is quite a common practice in both sighted and blind comparisons. Foobar ABX allows both kinds but people can hear the problem even if they have nothing more sophisticated than a run-of-the-mill pause button, or in fact, even if they don't use that they may simply notice the added delay which occurs every time they play Mosaic A2.
I would still contend that in your case it is cheating as you are already aware of the timing different and comparing a deliberate hard-stop that just plays more or less of a particular music passage. Despite all that it's a terribly annoying way to listen so you have my sympathy in the name of science. Hats off to you....


Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
What's next, people will contend they listen to these songs without ever hitting any "play" button?
This has already come to be for those that refuse to take a listen but are so vocal that everything is a big waist of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
You indicated you were listening to a "segment" though: So this problem applies to you as well, regardless of how exactly you select your segment. [and yup, my demo is of a build up to a loud part too.] It doesn't matter if you select your segment in foobar, iTunes, Oppo remote control, or whatever, the problem is the same and it is due to the files being handed to us are slightly out of time alignment. One file has an added delay compared to the other and people can sense it in several different ways, even if they may not consciously realize it.
I guess I need to explain my method in more detail. For sure others are doing it differently.

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:26>>>>Note the sound at 0:40>>>>Note the sound at 0:50>>>>STOP.
Track B, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:26>>>>Note the sound at 0:40>>>>Note the sound at 0:50>>>>STOP.
Repeat A vs B maybe two or three more times and make a decision based on several minutes worth of listening.

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:08>>>>Note the sound at 0:16>>>>STOP after the forte segment is complete.
Track B, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:08>>>>Note the sound at 0:16>>>>STOP after the forte segment is complete.
Repeat A vs B maybe two or three more times and make a decision. Compare low level at 0:08 to loud level at 0:16. It seems crest factor is different but have yet to be able to measure anything. (That's like 8000ms btw )

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:33>>>>Note the sound at 1:03>>>>Note the sound at 1:20>>>>STOP.
Track B, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:33>>>>Note the sound at 1:03>>>>Note the sound at 1:20>>>>STOP.
Repeat A vs B maybe two or three more times and make a decision. This is the more difficult of the songs to judge for me.


Some notes about what I observed but I have omitted the song names to avoid any possible influence on tests yet to be performed by others.
0:26 - More real. Percussion sound is more authentic and is more separated from the other sounds.
0:40 - Multiple sounds are more distinct and it is easier for me to hear individual instrument characteristics.
0:50 - High frequency has more presence. I would almost claim more SPL too but even I find that impression hard to describe.
Passage from 0:08 through 0:16 - Easier to hear individual instruments. Way more dynamics.
0:33 - What I would describe as room reverb has more sustain. I.e. does not fade away as quick as with CD.
1:03 - The sound at this time is more real. The CD version just sounds jumbled up.
1:20 - Percussion sounds have more sustain as they fade away.
PS - I am not wearing my flame suit!!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The short guitar riff I'm using is part of the file's name: 1m52s
"Mosaic A2 vs B2 excerpt at 1m52s"
I checked out the youtube video. Short duration makes for a very unpleasant experience. Again the deliberate hard stop at an exact time just means that you are hearing a different section of the song but has not much to do with listening to music.

I can understand why the objective folks are so miffed if they have to listen to such annoying ABX trials. Now that's a waist of time!

Gaugster

Last edited by Gaugster; 08-12-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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post #370 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaugster View Post


I guess I need to explain my method in more detail.

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:26>>>>Note the sound at 0:40>>>>Note the sound at 0:50>>>>STOP.
Track B, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:26>>>>Note the sound at 0:40>>>>Note the sound at 0:50>>>>STOP.
Repeat maybe two or three more times and make a decision based on almost 1 minute worth of listening.

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:08>>>>Note the sound at 0:16>>>>STOP after the forte segment is complete.
Track B, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:08>>>>Note the sound at 0:16>>>>STOP after the forte segment is complete.
Repeat maybe two or three more times and make a decision.

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:33>>>>Note the sound at 1:03>>>>Note the sound at 1:20>>>>STOP.
Track B, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:33>>>>Note the sound at 1:03>>>>Note the sound at 1:20>>>>STOP.
Repeat maybe two or three more times and make a decision.
Every single time you hit that STOP (or pause button, doesn't matter), which you seem to do a lot, since one of the versions of Mosaic has an extra 10 milliseconds or so tacked on to it [or lobbed off, depending on which track you consider to be the correct, unadulterated one] it will have a different waveform and since I've already documented at least one of them is audible, the very first and only one I even thought to check out, mind you, there's every reason to think there are other locations as well.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #371 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaugster View Post
I can understand why the objective folks are so miffed if they have to listen to such annoying ABX trials. Now that's a waist of time!
It actually offers far greater sensitivity but people should be allowed to use what ever works for them, as long as the songs are played at the same volume and are synchronized, just in case anyone might want to hit "STOP", as you seem to do frequently, or listen to the other song.

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post #372 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Every single time you hit that STOP (or pause button, doesn't matter), which you seem to do a lot, since one of the versions of Mosaic has an extra 10 milliseconds or so tacked on to it [or lobbed off, depending on which track you consider to be the correct, unadulterated one] it will have a different waveform and since I've already documented at least one of them is audible, the very first and only one I even thought to check out, mind you, there's every reason to think there are other locations as well.
Sorry but your assertion just does not apply. At least not in my evaluation. My decisions are based within the times (documented prior to your finding of the time alignment fwiw) I have outlined not at the absolute end of the test where I decide to stop and hear the next version.

It is hard to me to imaging that anyone would be making judgments based on the starts & stops sound of music. Records, taps and digital all "could" have pops, freq. shift and clicks when turned on and off while playing average/loud passages. I suppose anything is possible. Besides, somebody has to buy that expensive silver speaker wires....

Keep trying, maybe they are working on a third set of files but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Gaugster

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post #373 of 457 Old 08-12-2014, 08:15 PM
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I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood. See, I thought the music was playing when you hit stop:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaugster View Post
I guess I need to explain my method in more detail. For sure others are doing it differently.

Track A, Press Play at 00:00>>>>Note the sound at 0:26>>>>Note the sound at 0:40>>>>Note the sound at 0:50>>>>STOP.

But I guess you turn the volume all the way down prior to hitting the stop button so you don't get exposed to the extra 10 milliseconds of music that comes out of one but not the other. Right?


See if the music were playing you'd notice the sound from A2 stopped at 0:50 sounds different than B2 stopped at 0:50, since one of the two has a completely different waveform at that exact same spot.


Or perhaps you meant you are no longer paying any attention to the sound at that point where you hit stop so any difference at that point due to the time misalignment can't possibly influence you subconsciously, since you just aren't the kind of guy who is susceptible to that kind of stuff. Is that it?

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..


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post #374 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I've read that some degree of latency is to be expected with these things. There is some feature in Sonic Solutions SRC called "latency compensation (factor?)" which may not work as planned depending on the gear used.
Latency is not usually an issue when you are resampling files.

Quote:
Did you try to download my files for this, to ABX Arny? I promise no HF hearing is necessary. I after all heard it!
I've been mostly offline lately because of work responsibilities in the real world. Can you help me with a link?
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post #375 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Latency is not usually an issue when you are resampling files.



I've been mostly offline lately because of work responsibilities in the real world. Can you help me with a link?
Arny here is Zillch's Google drop box link for 2 files must be signed into Google/YouTube or G. Dropbox to dnld.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #376 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I think I have fixed the linked to folder that contains the two excerpts of Mosaic, A2 and B2, at dropbox? Please retry to download them now to compare the two:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca

(...)

People, report to me if you can successfully download them. Thanks.
They downloaded fine here. It might make sense for future uploads to be in zip files to prevent some browsers that might try to immediately play the file without a "save" prompt from doing so.
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post #377 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 06:39 AM
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Thread Buzz Kill - - Science versus Opinion versus a combination of Science & Opinion (forget enjoyment!)

It's getting to the point where many of these threads have two distinct camps - - members who would like to learn more about a specific technology or purported "benefit" and the "Scientific Camp" that is hell bent on disproving the thread "premise" with tons of scientific information, tests, and a superior "you don't know" attitude and unless you have 100% scientific proof, you (the poster) are not qualified to make any statement or observation.

What starts off as an interesting thread degenerates into technical rat holes and a boat load of data, diagrams & references that makes you wonder what the thread was about in the first place.

Maybe AVS should split the forums into "Opinions" and "Science Only," with the latter having explicit documentation requirements replete with blind studies and proper footnoting & source identification.

If every single comment and thread had to be scientifically based and proven, AVS could store all the forums on a thumb drive.

By the way - - can anybody tell the difference between a Hi-Res file and a CD?
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post #378 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 08:10 AM
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They downloaded fine here. It might make sense for future uploads to be in zip files to prevent some browsers that might try to immediately play the file without a "save" prompt from doing so.
Thanks! I see now the blue download box in the upper right when I click on the link. That seems much more functional now. [It's hard for me to tell what people typically see on that screen if they aren't dropbox customers like I am.]


These seem to work then.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4463h0bf4...5gegCPuxDmnbca

P.S. If anyone is having trouble hearing the guitar's final, lower frequency "CHA" sound versus the other file's higher frequency "CHIP" sound, at the end of the short riff, try closing you eyes.


So I now know people can indeed download it. Next question, to all: Can you hear the difference?

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post #379 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 08:14 AM
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"the reason they prefer (96kHz) the recordings is not because steady-state tones from 26 kHz to 48 kHz can be represented,but probably because some kind of time-domain resolution between the left and right ear signals is more accurately preserved at 96 kHz." James A Moorer in an ancient paper

My perception of the differences were not of dynamic range or frequency but of more space, less compression.
I did not use abx but did quick switches between short passages.

I don't believe in magic. We can't hear frequencies beyond our limits. I think digital processing is changing the time domain resolution. More time smearing because of sharp anti-imaging filter on CD's.

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post #380 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by larrsc View Post
"the reason they prefer (96kHz) the recordings is not because steady-state tones from 26 kHz to 48 kHz can be represented,but probably because some kind of time-domain resolution between the left and right ear signals is more accurately preserved at 96 kHz." James A Moorer in an ancient paper
Not that he, Moorer, cites any references, nor do I recognize him as being a definitive source beyond reproach, but I believe you mean this?

“When listening with both ears, everyone can
distinguish 96kHz recordings from 48kHz
recordings, and everyone prefers the
96kHz recordings... the reason being probably
because some kind of time-domain resolution
between the left and right ear signals is more
accurately preserved at 96kHz.”


Sorry, I haven't dug up the original reference, so there may be some alterations to what he actually wrote, but I got this quote from here:
http://www.ambisonic.net/pdf/hiresaudio.pdf


“When listening with both ears, everyone can
distinguish 96kHz recordings from 48kHz
recordings"

Not everyone, Mr Moorer, in fact, at the time of this post the majority of AVSforum votes [non-HRA] in our informal, flawed study, are posting scores below the mean (average) expected score of "1.5 correct guesses out of 3", that which would have been duplicated simply by random guessing via coin flips:










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post #381 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 09:32 AM
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Here is the original http://www.jamminpower.com/PDF/New%2...%20Formats.pdf

I did say it was an ancient paper. "James A. Moorer is an internationally-known figure in digital audio and computer music, with over 40 technical publications and four patents to his credit. In 1991, he won the Audio Engineering Society Silver award for lifetime achievement.

In 1996, he won an Emmy Award for Technical Achievement with his partners, Robert J. Doris and Mary C. Sauer for Sonic Solutions/NoNOISE¬ for Noise Reduction on Television Broadcast Sound Tracks.

From 1975 to 1977, he was the co-director of the Stanford Computer Center for Research in Music and Acoustics. From 1968 to 1972, he was a professional programmer at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. Dr. Moorer holds a PhD in Computer Science from Stanford University, granted in 1975 . Prior to that, Dr. Moorer earned an S.B. in Applied Mathematics from MIT in 1968, and an S.B. in Electrical Engineering from MIT in 1967. "

I'm not saying he is right, but he might have a clue.

As to our poll here, explain the 6 out of 6 correct reponses of those who had qualified systems? Are we or Scott
lying?
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post #382 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 10:07 AM
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^I suspect in EE school their entire curriculum in psychoacoustics can be summed up in one sentence: "Worry about 1dB or more, folks; anything less they probably won't notice... The end."

O.K., maybe "The end" makes it actually two sentences. That's grossly over simplified regarding what's important, but if they are only taught one sentence, that's better than nothing!

Although you obviously need to manipulate electronics to test it out, psychoacoustics is actually a branch of psychology and the study of human perception, not electronics. I'm pretty sure you don't even go to the same school to study it to get a degree in it.
--
Quote:
"As to our poll here, explain the 6 out of 6 correct reponses of those who had qualified systems? Are we or Scott lying?"
Here's one possible guess, which doesn't invoke your word "lying": More at stake to lose [an indication investing in HRA level systems is without audible merit] so HRA people focused more intently on the differences and ended up subconsciously picking up on the same thing I did [time misalignment error (but in my case at a conscious level)], which I also proved I could by posting ABX statistical analysis:

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Here's my very first attempt at ABXing them, planning ahead of time to do only 11 trials total, no matter how well I was doing, to make krabapple happy [He's right though.]:

foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.3.3
2014/08/11 12:40:10
File A: C:\Users\Me\Desktop\Mosaic_A2 excerpt taken from 1m52s.wav
File B: C:\Users\Me\Desktop\Mosaic_B2 excerpt taken from 1m52s.wav
12:40:10 : Test started.
12:40:27 : 01/01 50.0%
12:40:43 : 02/02 25.0%
12:40:52 : 03/03 12.5%
12:41:12 : 04/04 6.3%
12:41:29 : 05/05 3.1%
12:41:39 : 06/06 1.6%
12:41:49 : 07/07 0.8%
12:41:58 : 08/08 0.4%
12:42:09 : 09/09 0.2%
12:42:25 : 10/10 0.1%
12:42:34 : 11/11 0.0%
12:42:36 : Test finished.
----------
Total: 11/11 (0.0%)

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post #383 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 10:29 AM
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Also, to the best of my knowledge, Scott only indicated he had a theory HRA was necessary to hear what makes 96kHz "better", and he thought to conduct a test. If he ever actually said "I definitively think 96kHz is audibly better." I must have missed it, but I must admit I don't read this part of the forum much so perhaps I missed an important thread where he discussed it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
As many of you know, I'm conducting an informal experiment with the AVS community to investigate whether or not true high-resolution audio files—with information beyond what a Redbook CD can accommodate—can be reliably distinguished from the same files that have been downconverted to CD specs.

Oh wait, I'm only just now getting it. You are talking about what he posted as being the HRA peoples' votes results. All 6 correct. My bad.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrsc View Post
...

From 1975 to 1977, he was the co-director of the Stanford Computer Center for Research in Music and Acoustics. From 1968 to 1972, he was a professional programmer at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. Dr. Moorer holds a PhD in Computer Science from Stanford University, granted in 1975 . Prior to that, Dr. Moorer earned an S.B. in Applied Mathematics from MIT in 1968, and an S.B. in Electrical Engineering from MIT in 1967. "

...
I am not familiar with S.B. degrees. Help.
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post #385 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
I am not familiar with S.B. degrees. Help.
Seems odd to make a typo like that, twice. Especially on your own resume:http://www.jamminpower.com/jam.html


pretty sure he meant B.S. [but I suspect you already know that. ]
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http://www.harvard.edu/degree-abbreviations

I'll be back later...



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post #387 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Seems odd to make a typo like that, twice. Especially on your own resume:http://www.jamminpower.com/jam.html


pretty sure he meant B.S. [but I suspect you already know that. ]
^^^^^^ what he said ............S.B., Scientiæ Baccalaureus or Bachelor of Science, an academic degree -wikipedia-

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
I still don't see a S.B degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
^^^^^^ what he said ............S.B., Scientiæ Baccalaureus or Bachelor of Science, an academic degree -wikipedia-
Could be. So, how did he get a PhD without a master? Unless computer science works differently? Or, just my lack of understanding.
In any case, B.S. M.S. is more familiar, no?
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post #389 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
I still don't see a S.B degree.
S.B. = B.S. Dr. Moorer had two of those from M.I.T. B 4 Stanford PhD probably safe to say dude was pretty smart ,see below .
So was he wealthy or had a lot of student load debt ? how come he isn't on AVS forum keeping us straight and all ☺☺

just kidding found this same same rap sheet on him ,
Quote:
Dr. Moorer holds a PhD in Computer Science from Stanford University, granted in 1975. Prior to that, Dr. Moorer earned an S.B. in Applied Mathematics from MIT in 1968, and an S.B. in Electrical Engineering from MIT in 1967.

http://www.create.ucsb.edu/news/030118moorer.html
Quote:
So, how did he get a PhD without a master?
....................ask him


Could be he had an Honors degree and went on to get his PhD that way e.g,

Quote:
The "postgraduate" Bachelor's degree With Honours or Baccalaureatus Cum Honore degree is a consecutive academic degree. It’s the continuation of a completed (Honours) Bachelor degree program in the same field. It requires a minimum of one year of study but may also take longer. The degree allowing students to plan to go on to very high research. It is essential if students' ultimate goal is to study toward a two- or three-year very high research master's degree qualification. A student holding a Baccalaureatus Cum Honore degree also may choose to complete a doctorate or Ph.D. degree program without the requirement to first complete a Master's degree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honours_degree

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

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post #390 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 12:49 PM
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“When listening with both ears, everyone can distinguish 96kHz recordings from 48kHz
recordings, and everyone prefers the 96kHz recordings... the reason being probably
because some kind of time-domain resolution between the left and right ear signals is more
accurately preserved at 96kHz.”

Moorer and anyone other than God will need to produce valid empirical test results to back that up. Otherwise, it looks like the old temporal imprecision fallacy of lower sampling rates versus higher sampling rates that were completely debunked no later than the discovery and competent implementation of devices following the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem. In short, sample competently and you essentially have infinite temporal control to perfectly capture and recreate the sampled signal.

But people with beards have inherently more authority than me in such matters, so a more entertaining explanation can be found starting around the 21 minute mark of http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
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