AVS/AIX High-Resolution Audio Test: The Results So Far - Page 14 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 147Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #391 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 324
Quote:
So, how did he get a PhD without a master?
He probably didn't, but typically you get a masters and a PhD from the same school, so you might only list the latter.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #392 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 03:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada - West Island: Vancouver, South Direction: Go East
Posts: 4,560
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1970 Post(s)
Liked: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
I still don't see a S.B degree.
B.S. ...Bach of Science. [S.B. is in Latin]
NorthSky is online now  
post #393 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 05:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
Thread Buzz Kill
If every single comment and thread had to be scientifically based and proven, AVS could store all the forums on a thumb drive.
Don't knock thumb drives. ;-)

http://blog.laptopmag.com/kingston-a...-0-thumb-drive

"The 512 GB version is available now for a whopping $800, and the pricing for the 1TB version has yet to be announced."

There are several posters around here who I expect upwards 90%+ of their posts are scientifically based and can be proven, and they have over 10,000 posts each.
arnyk is offline  
post #394 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 05:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Could be. So, how did he get a PhD without a master?
Happens all the time in the US.

I have two kids with PhDs in Cancer Research and neither ever obained a MS.
arnyk is offline  
post #395 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 05:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
jj_0001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the rain
Posts: 761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
It's getting to the point where many of these threads have two distinct camps - - members who would like to learn more about a specific technology or purported "benefit" and the "Scientific Camp" that is hell bent on disproving the thread "premise" with tons of scientific information, tests, and a superior "you don't know" attitude and unless you have 100% scientific proof, you (the poster) are not qualified to make any statement or observation.

Could we please not have any more straw-man versions of science here? Science is not "bent on disproving" anything, science is about inquiry.

So just stop with this anti-science propaganda, ok?

James D. (jj) Johnston
jj_0001 is offline  
post #396 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 06:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
S.B. = B.S. Dr. Moorer had two of those from M.I.T. B 4 Stanford PhD probably safe to say dude was pretty smart ,see below .
So was he wealthy or had a lot of student load debt ? how come he isn't on AVS forum keeping us straight and all ☺☺

just kidding found this same same rap sheet on him ,


....................ask him


Could be he had an Honors degree and went on to get his PhD that way e.g,
Actually, the link explaining those backwards named degrees didn't list an S.B., hence my comment about that.

Wonder how deep computer science gets into electrical engineering and specifically audio and psychoacoustics.
A family member went straight through the EE program and got both MS and BS at the end of the course. So, I would think a masters for Moorer should have been there someplace and awarded.
CharlesJ is online now  
post #397 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
B.S. ...Bach of Science. [S.B. is in Latin]
Thanks. Wasn't listed in the link provided.
http://www.harvard.edu/degree-abbreviations
CharlesJ is online now  
post #398 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 06:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post
He probably didn't, but typically you get a masters and a PhD from the same school, so you might only list the latter.
Yes, but then why even bother with the two BS degrees; just list the PhD.
CharlesJ is online now  
post #399 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. US Don't trust any air I can't see ☺
Posts: 3,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Actually, the link explaining those backwards named degrees didn't list an S.B., hence my comment about that.

Wonder how deep computer science gets into electrical engineering and specifically audio and psychoacoustics.
A family member went straight through the EE program and got both MS and BS at the end of the course. So, I would think a masters for Moorer should have been there someplace and awarded.
TBH didn't look at it that much whats for dinner tonite is much more important to me than a geriatric PhD's academic resume even though he was no doubt very accomplished .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

Last edited by tubetwister; 08-13-2014 at 06:42 PM.
tubetwister is offline  
post #400 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 07:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Thanks. Wasn't listed in the link provided.
http://www.harvard.edu/degree-abbreviations

I'll be back later...


1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest > Sweetspot
RayDunzl is online now  
post #401 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 07:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
Oh, my bad. It is in the body of that page not below with the list of abbreviations where I looked.
CharlesJ is online now  
post #402 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 08:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 543
It's ok, I get my share of Corrective Guidance here too from time to time.

I'll be back later...


1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest > Sweetspot
RayDunzl is online now  
post #403 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 08:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 281
Actually, I think a lot of audiophiles have degrees in BS, short for "BS artiste".

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

m. zillch is offline  
post #404 of 457 Old 08-13-2014, 09:27 PM
Newbie
 
larrsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I guess most people here don't have a diploma in Latin, like I do.

I am a skeptic like most here when it comes to most audiophile claims. I have read and agreed with the double blind
tests results. But I have DVD-audio, SACDs and Blu-ray audio discs and enjoy the perceived improvement.

If differences in frequency or the standard measures of distortion are not the reason for these impressions, what is?

Time smearing?

Here's a more up to date advocate: Psychophysics, auditory neurophysiology, and high-fidelity audio
http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/Acoustics-papers.htm

Specifications such as frequency response and certain common distortions provide an inadequate indication of the sound quality, whereas accuracy in the time domain is known to significantly influence audio transparency. While the upper frequency cutoff of human hearing is around 18 kHz (or even lower in older individuals) a much higher bandwidth and temporal resolution can influence the perception of sound. Non-linearities and temporal complexities in the auditory system negate the simple f ~ 1/t reciprocal relationship between frequency and time. In our group's research -- which lies at the intersection of psychophysics, human hearing, and high-end audio -- we measure the limits of human hearing and relate them to the neurophysiology of the auditory system. These experiments also help to define the criteria for perfect fidelity in a sound-reproduction system. Our recent behavioral studies on human subjects proved that humans can discern timing alterations on a 5 microsecond time scale, indicating that that digital sampling rates used in common consumer audio (such as CD) are insufficient for fully preserving transparency.

I'm not up to date on all the past discussions, so I hope this isn't redundant or universally debunked.
amirm likes this.
larrsc is offline  
post #405 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 06:26 AM
Member
 
Kees de Visser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrsc View Post
Quote:
Our recent behavioral studies on human subjects proved that humans can discern timing alterations on a 5 microsecond time scale, indicating that that digital sampling rates used in common consumer audio (such as CD) are insufficient for fully preserving transparency.
I'm not up to date on all the past discussions, so I hope this isn't redundant or universally debunked.
It has been debunked I'm afraid.
According to J.D. (jj) Johnston, who follows this thread and knows a lot about digital audio and human hearing:

Quote:
The time resolution of a PROPERLY reconstructed PCM signal (note, if you take away the antiimaging filter the time resolution GETS WORSE!!) is approximately
1/ (2 pi fs nlevels)
for 16/44.1 that is 1/( 2 pi 44100 65536) = 55 ps
for 24/44.1 that is 1/( 2 pi 44100 16777216) = 0.22 ps
for 24/96 that is 1/( 2 pi 96000 16777216) = 0.1 ps

While time resolution does increase with sample rate, 16/44.1 looks, at least in theory, more than enough for human hearing.
David Griesinger (another audio scientist) states similarly:
Quote:
In Physics, the accuracy of timing is not determined by the bandwidth, but roughly by the product of the bandwidth and the signal to noise ratio.
(Audio systems have low bandwidth but very high signal to noise ratio)
krabapple and tubetwister like this.

Last edited by Kees de Visser; 08-14-2014 at 06:44 AM.
Kees de Visser is offline  
post #406 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 06:33 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrsc View Post
I guess most people here don't have a diploma in Latin, like I do.

I am a skeptic like most here when it comes to most audiophile claims. I have read and agreed with the double blind
tests results. But I have DVD-audio, SACDs and Blu-ray audio discs and enjoy the perceived improvement.

If differences in frequency or the standard measures of distortion are not the reason for these impressions, what is?

Time smearing?

Here's a more up to date advocate: Psychophysics, auditory neurophysiology, and high-fidelity audio
http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/Acoustics-papers.htm

Specifications such as frequency response and certain common distortions provide an inadequate indication of the sound quality, whereas accuracy in the time domain is known to significantly influence audio transparency. While the upper frequency cutoff of human hearing is around 18 kHz (or even lower in older individuals) a much higher bandwidth and temporal resolution can influence the perception of sound. Non-linearities and temporal complexities in the auditory system negate the simple f ~ 1/t reciprocal relationship between frequency and time. In our group's research -- which lies at the intersection of psychophysics, human hearing, and high-end audio -- we measure the limits of human hearing and relate them to the neurophysiology of the auditory system. These experiments also help to define the criteria for perfect fidelity in a sound-reproduction system. Our recent behavioral studies on human subjects proved that humans can discern timing alterations on a 5 microsecond time scale, indicating that that digital sampling rates used in common consumer audio (such as CD) are insufficient for fully preserving transparency.

I'm not up to date on all the past discussions, so I hope this isn't redundant or universally debunked.
Not up to date, errr more like speculative.

Kunchur's misapprehensions about the time domain resolution of Red Book digital audio is a big tip-off to those who are knowledgeable. His gross mistakes don't end there.
tubetwister likes this.
arnyk is offline  
post #407 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 281
Even without getting into the nitty gritty of his test and its problems it's pretty evident from the way he chose to construct the wording of his abstract that he both seems to jump to conclusions, at least on occasion, and has a clear agenda:


"Misalignment in timing between drivers in a speaker system and temporal smearing of signals in components and cables has long been alleged to cause degradation of fidelity in audio reproduction. It has also been noted that listeners prefer higher sampling rates (e.g., 96 kHz) than the 44.1 kHz of the digital compact disk, even though the 22 kHz Nyquist frequency of the latter already exceeds the nominal single-tone high-frequency hearing limit of about 18 kHz (i.e., an angular frequency limit of 113,000 rad/s). These qualitative and anecdotal observations point to the possibility that human hearing may be sensitive to temporal errors, that are shorter than the reciprocal of the limiting angular frequency (about 9 microseconds), thus necessitating bandwidths in audio equipment that are much higher than hearing limit frequency in order to preserve fidelity. The blind trials of the present work provide quantitative proof of this by assessing the discernability of time misalignment between signals from spatially displaced speakers. The experiment found a displacement threshold of about 2 mm corresponding to a delay discrimination of about 6 microseconds."


Notice his rather imaginative use of the word "noted" in the second sentence without feeling any need for a backing study citation or reference following it. Gee, I wonder why?

Last edited by m. zillch; 08-14-2014 at 12:44 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #408 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 01:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 14,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrsc View Post
I guess most people here don't have a diploma in Latin, like I do.

I am a skeptic like most here when it comes to most audiophile claims. I have read and agreed with the double blind
tests results. But I have DVD-audio, SACDs and Blu-ray audio discs and enjoy the perceived improvement.

If differences in frequency or the standard measures of distortion are not the reason for these impressions, what is?

Time smearing?

Here's a more up to date advocate: Psychophysics, auditory neurophysiology, and high-fidelity audio
http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/Acoustics-papers.htm

Specifications such as frequency response and certain common distortions provide an inadequate indication of the sound quality, whereas accuracy in the time domain is known to significantly influence audio transparency. While the upper frequency cutoff of human hearing is around 18 kHz (or even lower in older individuals) a much higher bandwidth and temporal resolution can influence the perception of sound. Non-linearities and temporal complexities in the auditory system negate the simple f ~ 1/t reciprocal relationship between frequency and time. In our group's research -- which lies at the intersection of psychophysics, human hearing, and high-end audio -- we measure the limits of human hearing and relate them to the neurophysiology of the auditory system. These experiments also help to define the criteria for perfect fidelity in a sound-reproduction system. Our recent behavioral studies on human subjects proved that humans can discern timing alterations on a 5 microsecond time scale, indicating that that digital sampling rates used in common consumer audio (such as CD) are insufficient for fully preserving transparency.

I'm not up to date on all the past discussions, so I hope this isn't redundant or universally debunked.
How can this be?
The man has a doctorates just like Miles Aster does. He's published in peer reviewed journals. Then there's even this.


Served on the "High Resolution Audio" panel at the 128th Audio Engineering Convention, May 22-25, 2010, London, U.K. (http://www.aes.org/events/128/calendar/calendar.cfm, W6)..

The AES I say. The AES!

Look at some of accomplishments.
http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/

Two digit, three digit, why his IQ must be off the charts.
andyc56 likes this.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is online now  
post #409 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 02:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
andyc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 669
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
How can this be?
The man has a doctorates just like Miles Aster does.
That's Myles B. Astor, not to be confused with Myles A. Astor or Myles C. Astor.
andyc56 is offline  
post #410 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 02:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 14,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked: 595
But he's a physicist, Andy, and Amir liked the post. Flying Spaghetti Monster, if only I had an IQ!
krabapple likes this.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is online now  
post #411 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 02:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
andyc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 669
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
But he's a physicist, Andy, and Amir liked the post. Flying Spaghetti Monster, if only I had an IQ!
Hehe. But in all seriousness, there's some good discussion of the Kunchur paper in this HA thread.
andyc56 is offline  
post #412 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 02:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,638
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
Flying Spaghetti Monster, if only I had an IQ!
He'll get you yet my pretty! And..... your little IQ!
Ratman is offline  
post #413 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 04:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees de Visser View Post
...


for 16/44.1 that is 1/( 2 pi 44100 65536) = 55 ps
...
Even if that 5 microsec was good, this is well below that for sure.
CharlesJ is online now  
post #414 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 05:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
...

Kunchur's misapprehensions about the time domain resolution of Red Book digital audio is a big tip-off to those who are knowledgeable. His gross mistakes don't end there.
Please, feel free to inform us where it ends. I am really curious now.
CharlesJ is online now  
post #415 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 05:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
How can this be?
The man has a doctorates just like Miles Aster does. He's published in peer reviewed journals. Then there's even this.


Served on the "High Resolution Audio" panel at the 128th Audio Engineering Convention, May 22-25, 2010, London, U.K. (http://www.aes.org/events/128/calendar/calendar.cfm, W6)..

The AES I say. The AES!

Look at some of accomplishments.
http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/

Two digit, three digit, why his IQ must be off the charts.
Well, he does list all three degrees in physics, and is:
• Professor of Physics and Astronomy, University of South Carolina (Aug. 2005—present).

Perhaps one should know their limits?
CharlesJ is online now  
post #416 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 05:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 281
Remember what I was saying in one of these threads about psychoacoustics not being a part of electrical engineering? I'm pretty sure it isn't taught in astrophysics school either. Here's their entire one sentence curriculum on the topic: "There's no air in outer space, hence no sound... The end."

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

m. zillch is offline  
post #417 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 06:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. US Don't trust any air I can't see ☺
Posts: 3,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Well, he does list all three degrees in physics, and is:
• Professor of Physics and Astronomy, University of South Carolina (Aug. 2005—present).

Perhaps one should know their limits?
Lots of a academic audiophools be talking BS nonsense just to be heard or just to get paid some of those fools think they know everything too ! This place be full of them bro

B.S. = one Pinocchio

M.S = two Pinocchio

PhD = Jackpot three Pinocchio ...................often results in a grandiose sense of entitlement and self importance when they get one of these they think everyone is supposed to believe everything they say or write nonsense or otherwise *** !


☺☺☺☺*** often to get paid ***☺☺☺☺

PS , above are common to all fields of science ,disciplines or academia that's why they call doctors quacks and lawyers shy locks bro !☺☺☺☺

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

Last edited by tubetwister; 08-14-2014 at 07:00 PM.
tubetwister is offline  
post #418 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 06:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RayDunzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked: 543
What are your qualifications, tubetwister?

I'll be back later...


1.5RQ > digits > OpenDRC-DI > DEQ2496 > DAC2 > KCT > FPB 350mcx > reQuest > Sweetspot
RayDunzl is online now  
post #419 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 06:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 18,371
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyc56 View Post
Hehe. But in all seriousness, there's some good discussion of the Kunchur paper in this HA thread.
Funny to read that post from Arny back in 2009:

As you seem to be saying, there's a lot of interesting twists along the way, but getting back to basics is very often a good thing.

Setting up a proper listening test that shows that high sample rates do make a difference with music is simpler and less costly than ever.

There is now a ton of high sample rate audio kicking around for free or not much money. Actually setting up the experiment can be accomplished with not only reasonably-priced buyware, but even with freeware.

There seems to be only one minor thing lacking - a pair of ears that produce results that are positive for high sample rates.

Whenever we see a paper like Kunchur's, we need to get back to basics. The basics are that just about anybody who wants to can set up a reliable listening test involving readily-available musical program material that has the potential to produce a positive outcome. Nobody seems to be able to do it. Instead, all we get are these abstract tests like Kunchur's, involving some most definately non-musical waveforms with questionable relevance and inconclusive results.


Of course those pairs of ears did materialize on Arny's own test material no less:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post
foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.3.2
2014/07/09 06:32:02

File A: C:\Users\Amir\Music\Arnys Filter Test\keys jangling band resolution limited 4416 2496.wav
File B: C:\Users\Amir\Music\Arnys Filter Test\keys jangling full band 2496.wav

06:32:02 : Test started.
06:33:07 : 01/01 50.0%
06:33:17 : 02/02 25.0%
06:33:24 : 03/03 12.5%
06:33:36 : 04/04 6.3%
06:33:47 : 05/05 3.1%
06:33:58 : 06/06 1.6%
06:34:12 : 07/07 0.8%
06:34:15 : Test finished.

----------

Total: 7/7 (0.8%)
Then this due follows Arny's post with this:

I agree. Not a single positive result in a decade is simple but mortgageable evidence.


Let's hope he didn't bank on that in reality lest he would be in danger of losing his house .

Amir
Retired Technology Insider
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"
amirm is offline  
post #420 of 457 Old 08-14-2014, 07:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. US Don't trust any air I can't see ☺
Posts: 3,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
What are your qualifications, tubetwister?

One Pinocchio ,(not engineering or science ) ,a warped sense of humor and brains ................ I'm a natural bro

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

Last edited by tubetwister; 08-14-2014 at 07:15 PM.
tubetwister is offline  
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
frontpage

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off