How loud do you play your music? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I can get significantly different sound levels depending on the source of my music (built in or networked apps, external cd player for example) as well as the recording itself. While I haven't really tried to determine the difference, it can easily be 10dB. AIUI external devices are further affected by gain structure differences. Better to have the OP provide actual experienced spl levels by measuring; the phone app is an indicator in any case.
...
This is of course very true - different inputs may not be calibrated at the same level.
Using the master volume setting as reference for approximate spl will only work when the actual source in use is also level calibrated.

Though, many AVRs and processors will actually give equal levels by default, and many of us run everything from one digital source, feeding everything on one digital connection in to the AVR/processor.
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post #32 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
So wrong.

I have no idea where you got these ideas, but you obviously need to do some reading. Not to mention, even if your system is calibrated, it may not even be capable of 105db at 0 MV.
I already tried to describe what I mean by level and calibration and how this applies to any digital source material, may be we just misunderstand each other, or perhaps my description was badly written.

As for capable, would it not be reasonable to believe that people have chosen set-ups that matches personal listening habits - if you like it loud, you have speakers capable of playing loud.
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post #33 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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88-92SPLdb for me.

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post #34 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 11:37 AM
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An hour on Saturday Afternoon.

Pete Townshend Solo Acoustic at the Fillmore West, and Chick Corea Akoustic Band soundboard in Yugoslavia

460w power draw, 127 F amp heatsink in an 80 degree room.


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post #35 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
An hour on Saturday Afternoon.

Pete Townshend Solo Acoustic at the Fillmore West, and Chick Corea Akoustic Band soundboard in Yugoslavia

460w power draw, 127 F amp heatsink in an 80 degree room.

That is a real nice way to show things. Very dynamic recording id say.

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post #36 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 12:56 PM
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Was just going to post a graph to show the difference between rms and peak levels, but you beat me to it, RayDunzl.
Nice plot, by the way.

I guess it can not hurt to plot one more of these, they are indeed nice, and shows what is going on with the levels in a very illustrative way.

From a Sheffield Lab recording, you can see that the difference between rms and peak is around 20dB, and most music measures around 15-20dB difference when you look at it like this.
The black line is dB-Z, the dB-C will be a couple dBs lower.
The red peak line does not drop back, it only goes up when a higher peak level is encountered.

It starts at 0dB master volume, this is loud, but with this music it is not excessive, and quite pleasing.
Turning it up to +8dB makes it rather loud.

Increasing the level a couple of dBs, from already kind of loud, changes the whole experience quite a lot.
At around 100-110dB peaks the bass gets tactile, but only subtle.
As you get above 115dB or so, a whole new world of sound opens up, where different instruments and sounds each get their own tactile characteristic.

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post #37 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
This is a measured listening level? Or numbers on your volume dial?
Measured with an SPL. That measurement is usually in the evening, through the night. Can get away with 3xdB - 4xdB during the day at some point, sometimes. Not often. I couldn't do anything like BassThatHz as I'd get a lot of complaints and police visits. Lots of houses close to each other in a very quiet neighbourhood. Nor could I even soundproof any of the rooms. No basement or anything of the sort.
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post #38 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 04:12 PM
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Wow.

Okv has less than a 5dB range over the course of an hour on the black line. That's pretty relentless.

Mine was 30 to 40dB range, at lot lower volume (assuming they are somewhat equally calibrated).

Mine is 1/2 to 1/3 of the perceived volume of Okv's, using 10dB difference as 1/2 (or twice) as loud.

I could turn it up. I'm probably using 20-30 (peak) of the 700+ watts available. I won't, though.

And this was somewhat loud for me, I'm usually another 10db or so down from that, playing a couple

of watts power.

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post #39 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 04:13 PM
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Today? -5dB with the subs 10-15dB hot.


Wife's doing errands and I'm enjoying myself.






Normally -15dB or so before my wife starts yelling at me.

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post #40 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
Wow.

Okv has less than a 5dB range over the course of an hour on the black line. That's pretty relentless.

Mine was 30 to 40dB range, at lot lower volume (assuming they are somewhat equally calibrated).

Mine is 1/2 to 1/3 of the perceived volume of Okv's, using 10dB difference as 1/2 (or twice) as loud.

I could turn it up. I'm probably using 20-30 (peak) of the 700+ watts available. I won't, though.

And this was somewhat loud for me, I'm usually another 10db or so down from that, playing a couple

of watts power.
I believe the time span you are referring to is 1 minute, not 1 hour, my plot only has a total time span of a few minutes.

If I was playing the music you plottet it is quite likely I would also have chosen a level similar to yours, different music suits different playback levels.
You still have >100dB peaks, and most people will not experience that as low volume.

Just listened to some music, and I found -40db below the level shown in my plot was suitable for that, a late evening session.
That should equal around 55dB(Z), with peaks reaching into low 70dB's.
Still sounds great.
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post #41 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
Measured with an SPL. That measurement is usually in the evening, through the night. Can get away with 3xdB - 4xdB during the day at some point, sometimes. Not often. I couldn't do anything like BassThatHz as I'd get a lot of complaints and police visits. Lots of houses close to each other in a very quiet neighbourhood. Nor could I even soundproof any of the rooms. No basement or anything of the sort.
Measured how and with what? What is the level without playback? Is it an anechoic or near anechoic space?

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post #42 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Measured how and with what? What is the level without playback? Is it an anechoic or near anechoic space?
xvfx is obviously pulliing our collective leg, or he's a complete idiot....not sure which.
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post #43 of 66 Old 08-02-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post
I believe the time span you are referring to is 1 minute, not 1 hour, my plot only has a total time span of a few minutes.
My bad... That makes a little more sense...

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post #44 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 03:25 AM
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I have a lot of 24bit recordings and like to get the full dynamic range out of them. So I listen at 144dB.
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post #45 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
That is a real nice way to show things.
What is the official name of the software tool that made that neat-looking graph? Room Eq Wizard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Very dynamic recording id say.
Interestingly enough a dynamic range of only 50 dB (100 dB max, 50 dB min) is shown. Of course not being familiar with the tool, I don't know exactly what the lines actually mean.
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post #46 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
I have a lot of 24bit recordings and like to get the full dynamic range out of them. So I listen at 144dB.
That must be some kind of a system you've got there! ;-)

Cordite-powered?
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post #47 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
What is the official name of the software tool that made that neat-looking graph? Room Eq Wizard?

Interestingly enough a dynamic range of only 50 dB (100 dB max, 50 dB min) is shown. Of course not being familiar with the tool, I don't know exactly what the lines actually mean.
Yes, or just REW.

I wouldn't expect an in-room real time mic measurement to show much more than this considering the noise floor is probably 40-45SPLdb. This is really only about showing min, max and average, not dynamic range as such.

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Here is Holst - Mars - Karajan - Berlin Philharmonic (a piece some of you may have)

Watching the plot, it just doesn't response fast enough for instantaneous differences in level. But I think its a good measure of loud you are hearing, which is the subject at hand.

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post #48 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
What is the official name of the software tool that made that neat-looking graph? Room Eq Wizard?
REW..

Open the SPL meter, it has a logger button.

The A/C/Z setting on the SPL meter aplies to the chart, too. "'F" on my chart legend above relates to F/S - Fast/Slow (response)on the logger

Logger button brings up the logging chart. Start the logger with the red recording button on the chart, zoom in on the left side till you see it doing something.

Zoom - right button moves the chart, wheel button changes scales.

Numbers on the legend correspond to crosshair time click on the chart



Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk
Interestingly enough a dynamic range of only 50 dB (100 dB max, 50 dB min) is shown. Of course not being familiar with the tool, I don't know exactly what the lines actually mean.
http://www.acoustic-glossary.co.uk/definitions-l.htm

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Last edited by RayDunzl; 08-03-2014 at 08:26 AM.
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post #49 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 08:28 AM
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Fwiw, here is a thread I started trying to get others to post their Audyssey calibrated numbers after finding hardly no one kept up with their SPL numbers on the Klipsch Thread:

Klipsch Speakers and Audyssey Setup Discussion


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Zen Traveler


...I also turned Dynamic Volume off and the Dymanic EQ on. Audyssey XT 32 seems to work best in my room and I found that I liked Dolby PLIIx better than Audysey DSX. The latter seemed to sound more echoey whereas PLIIx seems to raise the sound field. We watch movies within -5 to "0" and usually closer to Reference level (last movie was GI Joe @ -2). I also leave DEQ on for multichannel music and concerts and listen closer to -10 and DVD-A.SACD anywhere from -5 to -12 on the MV.

I also think discussing source material to give reference could be beneficial as well: I watched GI Joe at -2 on the dial and the low end hit 106 dB (possibly over a few dB). I then put in Robert Plant and the Band of Joy where it stayed between 85 and 90 dB (w/ a peak or two up to 95 dB) on my SPL meter (C-weighted) and -3 on the MV of the Denon AVR-4311ci.

Anyone else?

My wife and I enjoyed HP The Half-blood Prince at -2.5 on the MV and so far most movies we watch within 2 dB of that setting. What level do any of you watch the movies discussed? Anybody have any favorite GOTO scenes in other movies? Just curious because with Audyssey it seems I listen considerably closer to Reference Level than before without it being "too loud."

I also experienced the Alanis Morissette concert Live from Montreux at -13 to -10 before it got too loud and again put in the Robert Plant concert mentioned above and it sounded most excellent at -3 to -5. Does anyone else have any concerts they watch or have comments about my source material?
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post #50 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
It is impossible to understand what you really mean without a SPL measurement, which you could easily make if you had something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-130dB-USB...-/251425940110



Got one? They are very inexpensive and easy to use.

If not, get one! and post your highest listening level hear.
Thanks for reposting this--I am going to order one. I have been using a Rat Shack Analog meter but found it's peaks considerably higher than what my newly downloaded Android App shows...That said, on the latter, does anyone know if it needs to be recalibrated (or calibrated for first time use}?
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post #51 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Thanks for reposting this--I am going to order one. I have been using a Rat Shack Analog meter but found it's peaks considerably higher than what my newly downloaded Android App shows...That said, on the latter, does anyone know if it needs to be recalibrated (or calibrated for first time use}?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/r...-or-accurate-1

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As you can see, The different RS meters are not very accurate in the higher registers. So yes, correction curves must be applied. Also explains why they read high.

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post #52 of 66 Old 08-03-2014, 09:10 AM
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My personal listening, over a lifetime, has varied quite a lot.

In my twenties, it was mostly rock music at 110 dBc (slow meter response). About an hour at a time, usually. Rock needs it -- at 80-90 dBc, rock sounds flaccid.

These days I'm sure 110 dBc is common with the more distinguished AVS rigs (maybe 95 dBc with the subwoofers turned off).

Nowadays it's .... well, not rock anymore. 80 dBc fills the bill. It's more about listening, less about feeling.
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post #53 of 66 Old 08-06-2014, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

For the $30 or so it costs, what is stopping you? ;-) That's like the price of 2-3 CDs, no? ;-)

I know that they might pull your audiophile's card for buying test equipment, but maybe this once!
Okay, arnyk, you convinced me so I went ahead and ordered a dedicated SPL meter. I will post my findings when I get it.
Thanks!
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post #54 of 66 Old 08-06-2014, 12:57 PM
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More recently I have taken to using the Rat Shack meter during extended listening to ensure I'm not being foolish. I had noticed that after about 10 minutes of listening, the desire to turn it up would kick in. After turning it up 3-4 times over the course of an hour I had some ringing that concerned me. Pleasantly loud to me is roughly 80-85db for an hour or so. For more brief periods, say a song or two, 90db is fun. Beyond that either my system is distoring, my room is too poorly treated, or my ears cannot handle it. I did listen to a few tracks from the Metallica Through the Never DVD at 95-100db. That particular recording is handled better than most given my limited equipement and environment. These are avg numbers, not dynamic as that is all over the map and I don't have the means of recording it.
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I generally listen to music in the 80db range, sometimes louder when the wife isn't home.

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post #56 of 66 Old 08-06-2014, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toenail View Post
More recently I have taken to using the Rat Shack meter during extended listening to ensure I'm not being foolish. I had noticed that after about 10 minutes of listening, the desire to turn it up would kick in. After turning it up 3-4 times over the course of an hour I had some ringing that concerned me. Pleasantly loud to me is roughly 80-85db for an hour or so. For more brief periods, say a song or two, 90db is fun. Beyond that either my system is distoring, my room is too poorly treated, or my ears cannot handle it. I did listen to a few tracks from the Metallica Through the Never DVD at 95-100db. That particular recording is handled better than most given my limited equipement and environment. These are avg numbers, not dynamic as that is all over the map and I don't have the means of recording it.
My experience mimics yours very closely. After listening for a period of time, I want to turn it up, and I keep turning up every couple of songs. Not sure what that means. But last night the highest I put it were peaks of about 91 dB. I could have gone higher but it would have become uncomfortable.

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post #57 of 66 Old 08-07-2014, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake9 View Post
My experience mimics yours very closely. After listening for a period of time, I want to turn it up, and I keep turning up every couple of songs. Not sure what that means. But last night the highest I put it were peaks of about 91 dB. I could have gone higher but it would have become uncomfortable.
Would it coincide with the consumption of adult beverages?

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post #58 of 66 Old 08-07-2014, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Would it coincide with the consumption of adult beverages?
Yes, it would. I guess that might have something to do with it...(hangs head in shame)

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post #59 of 66 Old 08-07-2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Would it coincide with the consumption of adult beverages?
I had always assumed it was my hearing acclimating to the SPL over time. No booze influence on my end.
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post #60 of 66 Old 08-07-2014, 05:03 PM
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Using my Rat Shack meter on my current listening session w/ the 2 channel system - 70-75 dB.

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