Believe it or not, there is one aspect of the cable debate not covered: Durability - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought the title of this thread was about one aspect, durability. Has it grown to two now?
The thread title was overly long already. However, I laid out the fact that aesthetics were also important since I have some front stage wiring that is visible.

Had you read the first post, you would know that I was also interested in how the cables look.

On the first post I asked: "So, the question is, was I foolish for spending $700?

If we look at the durability and aesthetics of something I will be looking at for 20 more years, I think not."

I could be snarky and suggest that you work on your reading comprehension, but I won't.
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post #32 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 07:16 AM
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Where is your HT located?
In my living room since 1978.
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post #33 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 08:11 AM
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In my living room since 1978.
You got me beat. I didn't add external audio to my TV until some time in the late 1980's and didn't have a surround sound setup until 2000. I started in audio in the mid 1950's but never bothered with the TV. TV sound was always something other than high fidelity until the advent of the DVD and even then wasn't so hot for many years after that.
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post #34 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post
The thread title was overly long already. However, I laid out the fact that aesthetics were also important since I have some front stage wiring that is visible.

Had you read the first post, you would know that I was also interested in how the cables look.

On the first post I asked: "So, the question is, was I foolish for spending $700?

If we look at the durability and aesthetics of something I will be looking at for 20 more years, I think not."

I could be snarky and suggest that you work on your reading comprehension, but I won't.
In your opening post, you claimed that "Also, no one really discusses longevity and durability issues that are very important when it comes to cabling." and I proved you wrong with a link to such discussion. Apparently that didn't sit well with you.
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post #35 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 08:53 AM
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You got me beat. I didn't add external audio to my TV until some time in the late 1980's and didn't have a surround sound setup until 2000. I started in audio in the mid 1950's but never bothered with the TV. TV sound was always something other than high fidelity until the advent of the DVD and even then wasn't so hot for many years after that.
LOL... started with this on my old 25" Zenith console:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RECOTON-MTS-...item2a424e60d2

Then added this to compliment my Toshiba Hi-Fi VCR:
http://digichar.com/unt/59980-paramo...coderused.html
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post #36 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post
... do not have any magical qualities even if fairly dust was sprinkled upon them.

....
Well, we would have to test that postulate.
ps. boy, some just keep beating you up for nothing more feelings

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post #37 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
LOL... started with this on my old 25" Zenith console:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RECOTON-MTS-...item2a424e60d2

Then added this to compliment my Toshiba Hi-Fi VCR:
http://digichar.com/unt/59980-paramo...coderused.html
Guess that makes you an early adopter. I did have a Hi Fi VCR and, for a while I used it to archive CD's. That was my first entry into listening to TV audio with something other than the TV. My audio system was always in another room so I wouldn't be bothered by my wife watching TV. I'd never even heard of that Recoton unit before.
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post #38 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 01:00 PM
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Guess that makes you an early adopter. I did have a Hi Fi VCR and, for a while I used it to archive CD's. That was my first entry into listening to TV audio with something other than the TV. My audio system was always in another room so I wouldn't be bothered by my wife watching TV. I'd never even heard of that Recoton unit before.
That Recoton thingy was really good. I got hooked with "stereo" TV after a simulcast of the TV show "Amazing Stories" and a local FM radio station.

And as a side note:
That Hi-Fi VCR I purchased was on sale for $425...
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post #39 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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In your opening post, you claimed that "Also, no one really discusses longevity and durability issues that are very important when it comes to cabling." and I proved you wrong with a link to such discussion. Apparently that didn't sit well with you.
It sat just fine. Again, reading comprehension my friend. I explained that I only made it 10 pages into that thread. The mention of durability came later. I have now explained the fact to you twice.

Furthermore, I tied in the issue of appearances on my very first post. Again, this is the second time I have unpacked this fact for you.

You bring to mind a T shirt I once had. It said "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

Please try and keep up, I don't want to repeat myself anymore.
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post #40 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, we would have to test that postulate.
ps. boy, some just keep beating you up for nothing more feelings
Really? Yes, our super cheap grandpa may disagree with me, but the argument he makes is not without merit.

In fact I think it is a position that everyone needs to at least think about.

On the other hand, I did connection check today on my HT (no problems) and it all looked so "purdy."
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post #41 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post
It sat just fine. Again, reading comprehension my friend. I explained that I only made it 10 pages into that thread. The mention of durability came later. I have now explained the fact to you twice.

Furthermore, I tied in the issue of appearances on my very first post. Again, this is the second time I have unpacked this fact for you.

You bring to mind a T shirt I once had. It said "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

Please try and keep up, I don't want to repeat myself anymore.
Simply, I corrected your false claim with evidence.
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post #42 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post
I agree that the argument regarding very expensive cables is a thoroughly beaten dead horse.

However, I have not seen the, what I call the "$700 vs $400" debate settled.

Also, no one really discusses longevity and durability issues that are very important when it comes to cabling.

Please allow me to explain.

Several years ago, I built my HT. Spent about $30k. It is the best $30k I have ever spent.

I spent $700 on my cabling, and was ridiculed, because I could have built my own for $400.

Most of my cabling was from RAM electronics. I have 9 large free standing speakers, and 6 18 inch subs. 5 Amps and several other components. I need a LOT of cabling...

Thoughtful feedback is welcome
Slow day so I thought I would click on the thread about Cables since it's in my favorite section of the forum for trying to find facts using scientific knowledge. That said, I'm really not sure what everyone is comparing but it seems knowing how much is speakers wire vs component cabling and the total lengths involved could give folks a chance to give a more informed opinion.

I agree that if the only variable is that $700 gives you nice looking cables compared to nice looking cables you build yourself for $400 the only consideration would seem to be if one needed that extra $300 for something else or if they just had a frugal personality...The only thing I will say is that has cut the cost of component cabling immensely compared to what I used to spend is the advent of HDMI for my multichannel rigs.
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post #43 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 04:11 PM
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thread cleanup


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post #44 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Slow day so I thought I would click on the thread about Cables since it's in my favorite section of the forum for trying to find facts using scientific knowledge. That said, I'm really not sure what everyone is comparing but it seems knowing how much is speakers wire vs component cabling and the total lengths involved could give folks a chance to give a more informed opinion.

I agree that if the only variable is that $700 gives you nice looking cables compared to nice looking cables you build yourself for $400 the only consideration would seem to be if one needed that extra $300 for something else or if they just had a frugal personality...The only thing I will say is that has cut the cost of component cabling immensely compared to what I used to spend is the advent of HDMI for my multichannel rigs.
Excellent point. Back when I was building my system I was busy, and making a lot of money. More than 6 figures after taxes, and that is not counting my wife who does pretty well. $300 was an oil change for my Porsche, Mercedes or BMW.

Don't be impressed: In the last 2 years, I have done nothing but lose money, business, financial ventures that looked good going in but did not pan out. PE fund that was ponzied. I have been a complete financial loser.

I used to be really smart...apparently, based upon the evidence my IQ has dropped so far as to put me close to the mentally challenged classification. Even my 7 year old son says "daddy needs to get up early and find a job."

$300 is a lot of money to me now. Food and gas for a week.

Oh, and I drive a Hyundai now
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post #45 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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thread cleanup

You de-snarked
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post #46 of 64 Old 08-23-2014, 09:00 PM
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I couldn't imagine having speaker wires exposed in my living room, very amateur looking no matter how "pretty" they are. So I have to make my own. Much easier to fish wires through the wall without the bananas already attached. Not an issue of cost at all.

You can get a great crimping tool for $15, probably less if you shop around. As far as durability, I've never had a cable fail. Although in the case of someone yanking them out like your cleaning lady, I'd rather damage the connector on the speaker wire, than break the binding posts on an amp or speaker. Easier to repair.
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post #47 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 03:30 AM
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I couldn't imagine having speaker wires exposed in my living room, very amateur looking no matter how "pretty" they are. So I have to make my own. Much easier to fish wires through the wall without the bananas already attached. Not an issue of cost at all.

You can get a great crimping tool for $15, probably less if you shop around. As far as durability, I've never had a cable fail. Although in the case of someone yanking them out like your cleaning lady, I'd rather damage the connector on the speaker wire, than break the binding posts on an amp or speaker. Easier to repair.
I do not get the ''having speaker wires exposed, very amateur looking'' part. What is the logic behind that statement? I do get the ''hidding the cabes is girly'' part since woman seems to want to hide all cables.

If you want you cables nice then you will pay some extra money for niceness, i do not see a problem with that. And it is quite Obvious that when you buy nice cables you want them to be visible in the house. Of course the wife might not like that and will make you hide them.
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post #48 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 09:25 AM
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Reasons to spend more on cables:

1) You care about their appearance. (Seems an odd priority to me, but to each his own.)

2) You have particular installation issues. (Like running under a carpet.)

Reasons not to spend more on cables:

1) Sound quality.

2) Durability.

In both cases, you can get something as good as you need at commodity prices.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #49 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 12:36 PM
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Hey, if all speaker wires sound the same, I should've just stripped my old RCa cables and use them as speaker wire.

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post #50 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 01:14 PM
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Hey, if all speaker wires sound the same, I should've just stripped my old RCa cables and use them as speaker wire.
Well, you could have, but 24 ga or so is not recommended for speaker wire.
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post #51 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 01:22 PM
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Hey, if all speaker wires sound the same, I should've just stripped my old RCa cables and use them as speaker wire.
But not all speaker wires do, which is why you shouldn't.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #52 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 01:36 PM
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If you or anyone has a reason/justification to spend that money for cables... so be it.

I have two children for 34 years. I have two grandkids for 6 years. I had two granddogs (pit mix and mutt) and still have one bull/greyhound. None have messed with MY stuff.

You can't convince me.
If the dogs, cleaning staff and kids are getting at your stuff, this is a real problem to start with, considering the money invested.
Connecter cables are not meant to be pulled on or pushed on , on a regular basis. Plus, I had at one time two dvd players-one did dvd audio the other sacd both were 5.1 analog multi-channel, I had to change the out cabling each time I listened to either format, this went on for a few years until I discovered Oppo . Although not the type of cables that come with equipment, I bought mid priced Monster and they still work just fine. Must have messed with them many times going back and forth between formats. This was a bad thing to be doing, although I was fortunate nothing broke, like a rca connecter.
So, the cost has nothing to do with how well they are made.
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post #53 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I do not get the ''having speaker wires exposed, very amateur looking'' part. What is the logic behind that statement? I do get the ''hidding the cabes is girly'' part since woman seems to want to hide all cables.

If you want you cables nice then you will pay some extra money for niceness, i do not see a problem with that. And it is quite Obvious that when you buy nice cables you want them to be visible in the house. Of course the wife might not like that and will make you hide them.

If some time is taken you can make cable runs very neat and tidy looking, I have seen it many times. Zip ties are wonderful for this purpose, the reason they were made to begin with.
Of course my set up is a mess of tangled line. But, you can't see them back there.
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post #54 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 02:19 PM
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But not all speaker wires do, which is why you shouldn't.
I'm just being facetious I like overkill, so I use Ultralink Ambiance mkII, 10 AWG, I think (or are they 8 AWG)

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post #55 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 02:23 PM
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I'm just being facetious
Alas, facetious doesn't work real well on teh Internets. I wasn't sure you were being serious, but I didn't want anyone else to take that comment seriously.
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post #56 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 02:55 PM
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Alas, facetious doesn't work real well on teh Internets. I wasn't sure you were being serious, but I didn't want anyone else to take that comment seriously.
He did have this on the end
Must have been kidding in good jest.
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post #57 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 02:56 PM
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I'm just being facetious I like overkill, so I use Ultralink Ambiance mkII, 10 AWG, I think (or are they 8 AWG)
There should be an emotion figure for "kidding"
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post #58 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 05:23 PM
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There should be an emotion figure for "kidding"
+1!

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+1

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post #60 of 64 Old 08-24-2014, 07:44 PM
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