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Old 08-31-2014, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garidy View Post
Wow that was a fast reply...

Fair enough, lets agree to disagree then!

Just one strange occurrence however, millions of feet are shipped daily of RG6 U75 Mini Coax. I don't know how to explain the existence of all of the suppliers that are claiming to sell it... Another great AVS mystery I guess?
RG6 is indeed mini coax, compared to RG11 on the left:

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produc...1221410247.jpg

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:39 PM
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Use what you think works best.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Use what you think works best.
Or better still, use what is actually the best, within your budget!
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
RG6 is indeed mini coax, compared to RG11 on the left:

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produc...1221410247.jpg
LOL - in ratio, close enough, for me...
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:01 PM
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I know that you guys are having a grand old time, but the OP hasn't seen a single one of your posts after reading my reply six days ago.


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Old 08-31-2014, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
RG6 is indeed mini coax, compared to RG11 on the left:

http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produc...1221410247.jpg
More show and tell...
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
I know that you guys are having a grand old time, but the OP hasn't seen a single one of your posts after reading my reply six days ago.

Pity for the OP!

At least you're tuned in though!

And, your silence in sharing this fact makes you culpable to the sin that you have accused us of.

May your head rest well in your own hand as well!

Last edited by Garidy; 08-31-2014 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:08 PM
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Bill F is correct. The OP simply wanted to know if he could run a signal 30 feet.

(LCD - Sony KDL -52 XBR4) (Receiver - Sony STR-DA4ES)(Blu Ray - Oppo BDP-83) (PS3)( Dish Hopper DVR With Sling) Speakers (L & R - Paradigm Studio 20) (Center -Paradigm CC-470) (Surrounds & Back Surrounds - Paradigm SA-15R in walls) (Subwoofer 1 - Sunfire HRS-12) (Subwoofer 2 - Paradigm PW-2100)
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post
That is not correct. The characteristic impedance of a cable depends not only on the dielectric thickness but its dielectric constant. The latter is a property of the material used for the insulation between the center conductor and the shield. Change that and you change the impedance. This is why you can get wildly different sized capacitors for the exact same capacitor value because their construction material differs. Here is the formula:



"k" is the parameter I described.
Agreed. The usual way to shrink cable involves scaling everything smaller in accordance with the standard equation for cable impedance which ends up increasing the cable's series resistance due to the shrunken center conductor. One common example of this technique is the cable used for oscilloscope probes. The center conductor in those can be like a thick piece of hair. For 3-5 feet the extra losses usually do not matter. For 300 foot video cables it can be a real problem.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:53 AM
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Agreed. The usual way to shrink cable involves scaling everything smaller in accordance with the standard equation for cable impedance which ends up increasing the cable's series resistance due to the shrunken center conductor.
And by shrinking that center conductor you no longer have yourself RG-6; just because the smaller thickness cable RG-59, as one example, also has a 75 ohm impedance doesn't mean it is ethically acceptable to market it as "mini RG-6".
---

RG-59, RG-6, and RG-11 are all 75 ohms, but there are important differences in their other electrical properties which is why the various satellite and modern cable industries would never wire a house with the thinner RG-59 cable even though it would save them tons of money.


DirecTV mandates the use of RG6, for example, and if they caught an installer substituting RG59 they'd be fired, even though for short internal runs, say within the same room or stack of gear, it would most likely work just as well for the frequencies they use.



There's no such thing as "mini-RG6".


For short living room runs consider using the thinner and more flexible RG-59, for example, but please don't market it as "mini-RG6" or "mini-RG11". That's deceptive, misleading, and wrong. These wires have different, standardized designations for very good reasons:



In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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Old 09-01-2014, 10:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Garidy View Post
Sorry mate, simply not so: http://www.belden.com/docs/upload/np198.pdf this is a 75-ohm cable, and it's listed as a mini coax.
Mini, yes, RG6, no.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:36 AM
 
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Reductio ad absurdum:

Here's an example of scaling coax dimensions. Both are 50 ohm coaxes (I know we're talking 75 ohm in the thread).

The first is 5" in diameter, signal loss is .021dB/100' @ 10MHz, DC resistance of the inner is .1 ohms/1Kft.
The second is .017" in diameter, signal loss is 5.5dB/100' @ 10MHz, DC resistance of the inner is 27 ohms/1Kft.

Both have the same characteristic impedance, both are designed to carry signals well into the RF range, both would perform well for the OP's audio application, neither is the right choice for cost and ease of installation reasons.

http://www.eriinc.com/Catalog/Transm.../HJ9HP-50.aspx

http://wire-cable-tubing.wireandcabl...es/w-4269-3254
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
And by shrinking that center conductor you no longer have yourself RG-6; just because the smaller thickness cable RG-59, for example, also has a 75 ohm impedance doesn't mean it is ethically acceptable to market it as "mini RG-6".
---

RG-59, RG-6, and RG-11 are all 75 ohms, but there are important differences in their other electrical properties which is why the various satellite and modern cable industries would never wire a house with the thinner RG-59 cable even though it would save them tons of money.


DirecTV mandates the use of RG6, for example, and if they caught an installer substituting RG59 they'd be fired, even though for short internal runs it would most likely work just as well for the frequencies they use.



There's no such thing as "mini-RG6".


For short living room runs consider using the thinner and more flexible RG-59, for example, but please don't market it as "mini-RG6" or "mini-RG11". That's deceptive, misleading, and wrong. Wires have different, standardized designations for very good reasons:


The presence of an RG - Radio Guide listing is irrelevant, so long as the performance requirements of a cable in question can minimally meet the specifications of the listed RG variant. You are stuck on bagging when it's performance that matters - there are dozens of mini coax cables the crush the performance of full size RG 6 listed coax cables.

Our point in here after post # 32 is that we should all move away from generic terms and start citing performance requirements and share, full specification disclosures, not simply call every thing RG 6, etc... each of the aforementioned have at least three common categories: CCTV, SDI and CATV and within each have at least six additional variations. In Beldens Catalog, there's over 100. All with different performances, and therefore applications, some of which obvious overlap, but only in part, not completely. Belden, as cited several times now, has a mini coax, which exceeds the performance of their tradition full size RG 6 SDI, CCTV or CATV coaxial cables. I have posted the link several times. I should also add they have a series of SKU's that they directly call RG 59 mini coax...

So no one is any longer calling it mini RG 6 per say in this thread, but in the real world, that has become common nomenclature, which efficiently describes ones need for a mini coax cable with RG 6 or superior performance qualifications. Frankly, this is nothing more than semantic smack talk at this point.

Use whatever term you desire, however, be prepared to provide the full performance specifications of the cable, in the event that you're asked.

As pointed out by other and myself earlier on in this thread, RG 6 and 59 have become general terms, in the public, which includes AVS, we all need to me more specific, especially in here.

The OP's question was incomplete and poorly worded, leaving us all to assumption. We should have asked him some clarifying questions, before we all started in on offering up our opinions, I include myself in the -'we'.

I repeat, the whole point of this exercise was to evidence that we all need to be more careful and therefore specific when we discuss cables; citing actual performance qualities, etc... In this way, the designation of the cable will not be important, just its performance qualities.

You are failing in this regard:

The chart that you have posted is less than generic, it's virtually useless. You have failed to include what type of RG 6 or 59 coaxial: Is it CATV, CCTV, SDI, is it single, double, tri or quad shielded, what is the nature and coverage of the respective shielding's, is the primary conductor pure copper, or a composite, etc... You also failed to depict the noise field that the cables will be exposed to.

We have all seen this chart - so we know through experience that its a rule of thumb chart used for CATV in which the coaxial is a 95% foil shielding with a 65% braided shied, standard dielectric composition and diameter with an 18AWG copper primary, or even a copper clad primary. If a higher spec RG 6 variant, is implemented the distances will increase. It's all called RG 6 by layperson and most AVS members, but there are obviously differences. These differences are broken down by types and performance disclosures, which true RF network engineers live and die on everyday. I might also add that they view RG listings as obsolete and nothing more then a classification system, used to organized cable listings and options etc. They look specifically at the performance qualities, and secondly, at all other factors. Not all RG 6 cables have the same performances...

So we should all stop using the generic term RG this or that unless we provide a link to the spec sheet, of at least cite the topology of the cable, as I have above.

Your points are taken, so may we please move on?

Last edited by Garidy; 09-01-2014 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by manas2mail View Post
Hi Team,


want to buy VSX-323-K model, but my concern is that can I provide input audio from another room(away from 30feet) by coaxial cable (or only RCA audio cable required). 2nd, for output can I use coaxial cable (30 feet) for bathroom (without amplifier) without any qauality comromize.

Thanks in Advance.
Remember this?

1. He's not mentioning a digital connection, he said "audio" (speakers in his other posts)
2. He's talking about coax cable "without amplifier" (possibly line level audio? Might it already be installed?)
3. He's never replied to this thread or any other, in fact, has only 3 posts total
4. He's asked roughly the same question in three separate threads, never responded to any of them

Did he get his question answered? Did he get overwhelmed? Scared off? Embarassed?

This particular thread demonstrates the "butterfly effect" pretty well. Not so much helpful as a massive demonstration of how smart we all think we are, and how we think of each other as dumb. I know that's what AVS is all about, just seems pointless in the "long shot".
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Garidy View Post
Belden, as cited several times now, has a mini coax, which exceeds the performance of their tradition full size RG 6 SDI, CCTV or CATV coaxial cables. I have posted the link several times. I should also add they have a series of SKU's that they directly call RG 59 mini coax...

So no one is any longer calling it mini RG 6 per say in this thread, but in the real world, that has become common nomenclature, which efficiently describes ones need for a mini coax cable with RG 6 or superior performance qualifications. Frankly, this semantic smack talk at this point.
No it doesn't.

It's all about attenuation and to an often equal share of impedance control. There is no doubt that technology has brought us miniature coax cables that have very good performance. But RG6 cable of the same construction will still beat the mini variety every time. Belden 1694A is a fairly standard RG6 type SDI cable. Now the Belden catalog offers many miniature SDI cables as well. But look at the attenuation per 100meters. The RG6 goes much further at the same frequency, RG11 that much further.

Where I work now we use 1855 on 1.5g HDSDI up to about 50 feet. 1694 up to 250 feet. Beyond that we now use fiber. A few years ago beyond 200 feet at 1.5g I used 7731A which is an RG11 type but today fiber plus the conversion hardware has come done in cost enough to compete with RG11. The biggest problem I have with RG11 is the room it takes up. As for the impedance bump transitioning between different cable types, there is usually a patch bay and/or bulkhead connector in the path anyway so the cable impedance bump is irrelevant.

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Old 09-01-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garidy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
And by shrinking that center conductor you no longer have yourself RG-6; just because the smaller thickness cable RG-59, for example, also has a 75 ohm impedance doesn't mean it is ethically acceptable to market it as "mini RG-6".
---

RG-59, RG-6, and RG-11 are all 75 ohms, but there are important differences in their other electrical properties which is why the various satellite and modern cable industries would never wire a house with the thinner RG-59 cable even though it would save them tons of money.


DirecTV mandates the use of RG6, for example, and if they caught an installer substituting RG59 they'd be fired, even though for short internal runs it would most likely work just as well for the frequencies they use.



There's no such thing as "mini-RG6".


For short living room runs consider using the thinner and more flexible RG-59, for example, but please don't market it as "mini-RG6" or "mini-RG11". That's deceptive, misleading, and wrong. Wires have different, standardized designations for very good reasons:


The presence of an RG - Radio Guide listing is irrelevant, so long as the performance requirements of a cable in question can minimally meet the specifications of the listed RG variant. You are stuck on bagging when it's performance that matters - there are dozens of mini coax cables the crush the performance of full size RG 6 listed coax cables.

Our point in here after post # 32 is that we should all move away from generic terms and start citing performance requirements and share, full specification disclosures, not simply call every thing RG 6, etc... each of the aforementioned have at least three common categories: CCTV, SDI and CATV and within each have at least six additional variations. In Beldens Catalog, there's over 100. All with different performances, and therefore applications, some of which obvious overlap, but only in part, not completely. Belden, as cited several times now, has a mini coax, which exceeds the performance of their tradition full size RG 6 SDI, CCTV or CATV coaxial cables. I have posted the link several times. I should also add they have a series of SKU's that they directly call RG 59 mini coax...

So no one is any longer calling it mini RG 6 per say in this thread, but in the real world, that has become common nomenclature, which efficiently describes ones need for a mini coax cable with RG 6 or superior performance qualifications. Frankly, this semantic smack talk at this point.

Use whatever term you desire, however, be prepared to provide the full performance specifications of the cable, in the event that you're asked.

As pointed out by other and myself earlier on in this thread, RG 6 and 59 have become general terms, in the public, which includes AVS, we all need to me more specific, especially in here.

The OP's question was incomplete and poorly worded, leaving us all to assumption. We should have asked him some clarifying questions, before we all started in on offering up our opinions, I include myself in the -'we'.

I repeat, the whole point of this exercise was to evidence that we all need to be more careful and therefore specific when we discuss cables; citing actual performance qualities, etc... In this way, the designation of the cable will not be important, just its performance qualities.

You are failing in this regard:

The chart that you have posted is less than generic, it's virtually useless. You have failed to include what type of RG 6 or 59 coaxial: Is it CATV, CCTV, SDI, is it single, double, tri or quad shielded, what is the nature and coverage of the respective shielding's, is the primary conductor pure copper, or a composite, etc... You also failed to depict the noise field that the cables will be exposed to.

We have all seen this chart - so we know through experience that its a rule of thumb chart used for CATV in which the coaxial is a 95% foil shielding with a 65% braided shied, standard dielectric composition and diameter with an 18AWG copper primary, or even a copper clad primary. If a higher spec RG 6 variant, is implemented the distances will increase. It's all called RG 6 by layperson and most AVS members, but there are obviously differences. These differences are broken down by types and performance disclosures, which true RF network engineers live and die on everyday. I might also add that they view RG listings as obsolete and nothing more then a classification system, used to organized cable listings and options etc. They look specifically at the performance qualities, and secondly, at all other factors. Not all RG 6 cables have the same performances...

So we should all stop using the generic term RG this or that unless we provide a link to the spec sheet, of at least cite the topology of the cable, as I have above.

Your points are taken, so may we please move on?
Who started insisting there is such a thing as mini rg6? Certainly i never suggested that cable not meeting the rg6 spec could not work fine in many applications. I don't think anybody else did either.

But at that point you are talking about whether you need rg6, not whether non-rg6 cable is rg6 cable. See? Very simple logic, really. Really. Very. Simple.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:49 AM
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Who started insisting there is such a thing as mini rg6?
Post #13, 20, 22, 25........

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Old 09-01-2014, 11:50 AM
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Your points are taken, so may we please move on?
If you'll admit "mini RG-6" doesn't exist, and any sleazeball marketer which uses said term, not that you've provided us with any examples, yet doesn't use a true 18 AWG center core in their "mini RG-6" construction and maintains the prerequisite 75 ohm impedance, is simply duping the public, then fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Garidy View Post
There are dozens of highly flexible, small diameter RG6 cable offerings from at least a few dozen manufacturers.
Wrong. There are all sorts of 75 ohm cables though, perhaps you were confusing them.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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Old 09-01-2014, 12:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by audio2xs View Post
Remember this?

1. He's not mentioning a digital connection, he said "audio" (speakers in his other posts)
2. He's talking about coax cable "without amplifier" (possibly line level audio? Might it already be installed?)
3. He's never replied to this thread or any other, in fact, has only 3 posts total
4. He's asked roughly the same question in three separate threads, never responded to any of them

Did he get his question answered? Did he get overwhelmed? Scared off? Embarassed?

This particular thread demonstrates the "butterfly effect" pretty well. Not so much helpful as a massive demonstration of how smart we all think we are, and how we think of each other as dumb. I know that's what AVS is all about, just seems pointless in the "long shot".
Shame on all of us! Shame on me - double... I completely agree!
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If you'll admit "mini RG-6" doesn't exist, and any sleazeball marketer which uses said term, not that you've provided us with any examples, yet doesn't use a true 18 AWG center core in their "mini RG-6" construction and maintains the prerequisite 75 ohm impedance, is simply duping the public, then fine.


Wrong. There are all sorts of 75 ohm cables though, perhaps you were confusing them.
Let me put it another way: Moving forward, I personally, will be very specific and detailed when I make mention of any cables and terminations, etc. I will also apply the same care when I depict the application(s). I will also pause, to qualify such , from other poster, before I comment, as to mitigate the 'Butterfly Effect', mentioned by another member.

I have provided sufficient examples of every cable that I have mentioned, you must have missed them...

Lastly, there is absolutely no need for your current level of aggression, within this thread. I took personal offense to you using the following derogatory language: "any sleazeball marketer". In their defense, I would also suggest that they at least know that a hyphen is required to compound: sleaze-ball!

I think it's TIME to move on...
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
No it doesn't.

It's all about attenuation and to an often equal share of impedance control. There is no doubt that technology has brought us miniature coax cables that have very good performance. But RG6 cable of the same construction will still beat the mini variety every time. Belden 1694A is a fairly standard RG6 type SDI cable. Now the Belden catalog offers many miniature SDI cables as well. But look at the attenuation per 100meters. The RG6 goes much further at the same frequency, RG11 that much further.

Where I work now we use 1855 on 1.5g HDSDI up to about 50 feet. 1694 up to 250 feet. Beyond that we now use fiber. A few years ago beyond 200 feet at 1.5g I used 7731A which is an RG11 type but today fiber plus the conversion hardware has come done in cost enough to compete with RG11. The biggest problem I have with RG11 is the room it takes up. As for the impedance bump transitioning between different cable types, there is usually a patch bay and/or bulkhead connector in the path anyway so the cable impedance bump is irrelevant.
You are being assumptive about distance.

Our context is home AV, which implies typical runs of under 100'; however, you are evidencing my primary point that we all need to be completely specific, not only about the cable, but the application.

In this thread, the distance has been marked at 30', and in this context, my assertions stand. The cable that I have provided a link to repeatedly, is of a series of mini coax from Belden that will exceed the performance of the most widely used, RG6 variant in residential installations: RG 6 U 75 CATV 95% foil shielding, 65% braid shielding, 18AWG copper primary or copper cladded primary, with stand dielectric composition and geometry (I can be more specific if I look up a few brands and average the diameter of the dielectrics). As a point of fact, it even meets and exceed many of Belden's full size SDI coax cables. I have provided the full specifications, more than once, you have obviously failed to read them. Sufficient bandwidth is sufficient bandwidth, regards of a cables bagging!

If one changes the context, then the discussion must start over, as the variable(s) upon which the original context were formed , are now different.

Our OP disclosed the distance - 30', but nothing else usable about either of the cables that he cited, we were all left to assume, and assume many did, and still are!

It's truly TIME to move on...

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Old 09-01-2014, 01:33 PM
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As Garidy said, it's time to move on. The OP simply wanted to run a signal 30 feet. The context of his original question suggested he first needed to be shown what coaxial and RCA cable was, in which Bill F explained. More attention should of been paid to finding out exactly what he was trying to do. The OP is long gone. His reasons for no longer responding can be many.

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Old 09-01-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Skytrooper View Post
As Garidy said, it's time to move on. The OP simply wanted to run a signal 30 feet. The context of his original question suggested he first needed to be shown what coaxial and RCA cable was, in which Bill F explained. More attention should of been paid to finding out exactly what he was trying to do. The OP is long gone. His reasons for no longer responding can be many.
Right, but the thread has evolved into a much deeper discussion as many do. This is an exchange of information. Just because the OP had his question answered is not an excuse to have incomplete and misinformation posted for the benefit of those who wish to learn more.

I do understand however how some posters would like to see this post die. But unless it's deleted by the moderator it stands for the history of AVS at least. And since there has been little if any poor behavior in this thread, it will probably be left to stand. So we might as well get it right for the benefit of the future.

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Old 09-01-2014, 04:00 PM
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I have provided sufficient examples of every cable that I have mentioned, you must have missed them.
Wrong. You have not provided a single link to a smaller diameter than normal RG6, and you claimed there are "dozens" to choose from:


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There are dozens of highly flexible, small diameter RG6 cable offerings from at least a few dozen manufacturers.

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Lastly, there is absolutely no need for your current level of aggression, within this thread. I took personal offense to you using the following derogatory language: "any sleazeball marketer".

Call me crazy but I consider con artists and deceivers to be evil and worthy of contempt and scorn. There was no indication I included you or any other forum members currently in this thread as being specifically part of that category of marketers I despise, so it makes no sense for anyone to take any personal offense.
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In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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Old 09-01-2014, 04:36 PM
 
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Right, but the thread has evolved into a much deeper discussion as many do. This is an exchange of information. Just because the OP had his question answered is not an excuse to have incomplete and misinformation posted for the benefit of those who wish to learn more.

I do understand however how some posters would like to see this post die. But unless it's deleted by the moderator it stands for the history of AVS at least. And since there has been little if any poor behavior in this thread, it will probably be left to stand. So we might as well get it right for the benefit of the future.

What more can you say, that you desire me to correct, or agree with you semantically?

Only gamesmanship lay ahead, and I've seen no evidence that you are a match for me, in that regard!

All of my points have been clear, as has my global intention in this thread, which I will repeat one final time:

It has been to evidence to all - that we're all, far to assumptive in our postings. That we need to firstly qualified an OP's or P's statements before we go charging in with comments, and that our comments need to be duly civil, highly detailed, and on point (in context).

I used the absurdities of such occurrences within this thread, as evidence of my claims. Others have caught on, and have agreed, and a few have already effected a change, in this regard.

If you don't wish to be apart of this positive group acknowledgement, go back and delete your postings.

In the end, were are predominantly stating the same things semantically... so it's TIME to move on...

I will not return to this thread, as my intended purposes in participating within it have been accomplished.

If you wish to keep taking runs at me, you will have to follow me around...

Last edited by Garidy; 09-06-2014 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:42 PM
 
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Wrong. You have not provided a single link to a smaller diameter than normal RG6, and you claimed there are "dozens" to choose from:








Call me crazy but I consider con artists and deceivers to be evil and worthy of contempt and scorn. There was no indication I included you or any other forum members currently in this thread as being specifically part of that category of marketers I despise, so it makes no sense for anyone to take any personal offense.
It seems to me, that you are now acting as socket puppet, one who doesn't know when it's time to call - TIME!

You are way to emotionally invested...

Moving on, chase me around if you desire, but I'd prefer that moving forward, you chill out and post more intelligent and less emotional posts. That is if you actually want me to respond to you...
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:56 PM
 
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You are way to emotionally invested..
...yet, you keep responding to every post.

You're the self proclaimed genius who did nothing but reveal that you don't really have any experience with the topic at hand.
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:35 PM
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This particular thread demonstrates the "butterfly effect" pretty well. Not so much helpful as a massive demonstration of how smart we all think we are, and how we think of each other as dumb. I know that's what AVS is all about, just seems pointless in the "long shot".
you mean, "long run"?

this would also work as a pun to boot!


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Old 09-01-2014, 07:45 PM
 
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you mean, "long run"?

this would also work as a pun to boot!
I meant "long shot" as in film terminology...big picture. But that would have been a good pun, and a good way to end the "thread that wouldn't die".
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:52 PM
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Ah ok, I see.

oh, ****e, another inadvertent pun.


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