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Recommendation on 3.1 receiver + speaker setup under $1k

2K views 25 replies 5 participants last post by  gajCA 
#1 ·
I'm a newbie on this forum as I have just started researching for audio setup in my new home. I'd like to start slow initially with 3.1 setup and expand later. My primary use would be to listen to music. I need something that will do justice to low frequency notes which I have seen being referred to being warm on many forums. I have seen good reviews on Marantz and Denon for receivers. Can anyone recommend a good receiver brand /model?

What brand speakers would match these receivers? I understand that if I choose an amazing receiver, I'd need equally good speakers. I have heard a lot of Klipsch and Polk. Anyone recommend good value for money speakers?
 
#2 ·
There are a ton of options out there for your requested price range. If music is important to you, I would recommend Marantz for the receiver. Maybe this one Marantz NR1504

A great 2.1 setup with outstanding low end would be SVS. Prime Satellite 2.1 In the future, you could always upgrade and use the satellites for surrounds.

One other option would be the Marantz and a pair of Definitive Tech speakers: Def Tech BP-8040ST The updated model is available so, these are on sale.

Hope this was helpful. I am sure other will chime in soon.
 
#3 · (Edited)
What brand speakers would match these receivers? I understand that if I choose an amazing receiver, I'd need equally good speakers.
The speakers (plus their positioning in your room) is about 1000 times more important than than the receiver. I would budget 70% of your funds on them an not worry about the receiver so much. Denon, Marantz (actually the same parent company if you didn't know) and Yamaha all have good performance. I'd buy whatever is on sale when you need to buy. For speakers Polk are good bang for the buck. I hear good things about SVS too. Understanding how to read frequency response graphs is a good way to start since that's one of the most important specs. Unfortunately different companies use different measuring techniques so you can't always directly compare one response graph to another [and be sure the axes are calibrated the same way] unless they come from the same lab.
You should look for reviews which show graphs. Here's a pretty good (but not great) one to start you off:

Source:http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-system-review-test-bench#shHZsWuDVYT6ODOL.97

Purple is the speaker by itself. Blue is the added subwoofer. Flat from 20Hz to 20kHz is sort of the goal but more important than the top to bottom range is how flat is the plateau or the "+/- dB tolerance" [or "allowed window of deviation"], especially in the middle, and what happens in different ranges has different impacts. Shall I tell you all of them? It will take a year. What happens off axis is also important but not as many sources post this data for easy comparisons. Other things matter too but I don't have the time to type it all.


Most people on forums will tell you to go to stores and listen and decide for yourself, but they are wrong because:


A)You are hearing the room, which is not yours, and the positioning of the speaker more than you are the speakers themselves.


and


B) Your test isn't blind so the fact that a bunch of people have now told you Polk is a good one will subconsciously influence you even though you are unaware of this and would pass a lie detector test that you are "objective".


Good luck!
 
#4 ·
$1K is a pretty limiting budget to get started for 3.1 + receiver. I'd start with 2.0 or 3.0 or 2.1.

SVS Sound, HSU Research, EMP Tek, HTD, and Ascend Acoustics are all Internet direct companies that sell good speakers for a very good value because they don't have to pay the cost of a middle man.

What kind of music do you like since you mention the importance of "low notes?"

What is the size of your room including open areas? That will affect how much sub you need to buy.
 
#5 ·
@acmeavs and @m. zillch- Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation for a newbie! I quickly do realize one thing (@cel4145) that $k might be too tight for a good set. I can be flexible (around $2k - $2.5k ) with some room for celing as I didn't really have a very good idea initially. My goal is that for now I want to get the best front speakers (L&R) + receiver, decent Center and sub(if required) and then later after months or years I can add surround.
Yesterday, I went to BB Magnolia and had a demo of a couple of speakers (they had limited choice- mainly Martin Logan, Definitive tech, B&W and no Klipsch) with denon and Marantz receiver. I kind of decided not too look at the price point just to get a feel what's out there. I really loved the Bower and Wilkins CM10 (powered by Denon).. I loved the amazing clarity for all the high freq (very pronounced, I think was the term!) and the bass (low freq) wasn't great but not too bad for my ears.
The same speakers with Marantz, didn't seem good at all with low frequencies/ bass response.
Note that both these were without sub.

Given what I liked at the demo, how would you classify my taste as? I love the pronounced clarity in music but also like it to decently handle low freq/bass.. I don't want it to be mumbled... if you understand what I mean.

I also read good things about Dynaudio.. (my previous car had dynaudio system in it and it was mind-blowing!) but they seem to be rare and super expensive.
 
#7 ·
My goal is that for now I want to get the best front speakers (L&R) + receiver, decent Center and sub(if required) and then later after months or years I can add surround.

Yesterday, I went to BB Magnolia and had a demo of a couple of speakers (they had limited choice- mainly Martin Logan, Definitive tech, B&W and no Klipsch) with denon and Marantz receiver. I kind of decided not too look at the price point just to get a feel what's out there. I really loved the Bower and Wilkins CM10 (powered by Denon).. I loved the amazing clarity for all the high freq (very pronounced, I think was the term!) and the bass (low freq) wasn't great but not too bad for my ears.
The same speakers with Marantz, didn't seem good at all with low frequencies/ bass response.
Note that both these were without sub.
It seems you have found something you like. However, I would caution making a final decision based on demos at stores. Room acoustics play a large role in sound quality. How a system sounds in the store may not translate to how it will sound at home. The only way to verify is by home trial. If you liked the sound of the B&Ws, I would take them home with the Denon and see how they sound at home. I think Best buy might have a restock fee, but you would need to check on that. Then, demo some other brands at home to compare. SVS has a 45-day trial period and shipping is free both ways.

If movies are important to you, be sure to timbre match the front speakers. The center is important. Is there a particular reason you are looking start with a 3.1 setup?
 
#6 ·
Get your receiver and sub, and then I would suggest demoing a pair of these: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html. I own a pair, and I have often seen them compared favorably to, if not better than, the B&W CM bookshelves--but way more affordable. Ascend Acoustics is Internet direct, so they don't have to inflate the price as much to cover the retailers profit. Ascend also has free shipping right now on those speakers, both ways. If you don't like them, send 'em back free of charge. Then if you like them, you can order the center channel.

If the Denon sounded better than the Marantz for low end, it was more likely to be something about how Best Buy had them configured. They should sound pretty much the same. Denon tends to run a little cheaper. Since you liked it, then might as well go for it. Find the one that has the features you want, and Audyssey MultEQ XT would be better than regular MultEQ, all other things being the same. If you want to save on the receiver, check out accessories4less.com. They have factory refurbished/factory warrantied Denons. And an older model with a comparably rated amp from a couple of years back will differ in features not sound quality.

Then for low end, get a good sub to go with bookshelves. You still haven't said how big your room is. Is it a closed off living room, or part of an open floor plan? And how many feet all together? The size of the space significantly affects how much sub you need for the space because the bass fills the room and interacts with it.
 
#8 ·
WhatHiFi, a UK site, often prefers the much less expensive Q Acoustics brand over the B&W brand.

Both of these brands are UK brands.

You can find their reviews, and other pro reviews on the Q Acoustics website.

They are far less expensive than B&W and excel in having similar though more dynamic sound to the B&W's if the reviews can be believed.

In a few weeks I'll be posting a review of some Q Acoustics bookshelves I'll be receiving against some other bookshelves including B&W's, (I've owned B&W's since the 80's and have never been disappointed though there are at least as good speakers out there for less money) and Martin Logans.

The only problem with Q Acoustics is that while they offer great value for money they don't sell at Best Buy and the like and don't have a free return policy and charge 15% restocking which some find harsh. Mind you other companies that offer "free returns" have similar products to Q Acoustics that are sometimes at least 15% more in cost.

http://www.qacoustics.com/?gclid=CMGosd6Y084CFYdcfgodiIwCLw
 
#9 ·
@cel4145: I have an open floor plan.. the living area is around 22' x 20' with 10' flat ceiling. You made an interesting point with Denon and Marantz to be similar and possibly the way BB configured it. If they both are from same parent company.. does one excel the other in a particular area? (I'm just curious to know if at all).
@acmeavs: I agree with you. The demos at stores (esp at BB) might be skewed for reasons cel4145 mentioned. I would at least like get something closer to what I think I like. Movies are important but music is more important for me. I agree that I'd need a matching center. I was thinking I'd narrow down on the front speakers and receiver first (I can stretch my budget in that area since it's most important for music) and then adjust accordingly for center and sub (if needed). So, basically my priority in terms on spending is 2.0 then 3.0 and 3.1 if that makes sense?

@gajCA: Thanks for the suggestion. Do QAcoustics sell in the US? I tried to find dealer on their website and US wasn't even listed. I'll look forward to your review on them!

I was considering tower speakers (since I have good aesthetic space to keep them). Would you recommend book shelves with sub or just tower (with maybe sub) ? I guess it depends on the speakers.
 
#10 ·
@


[MENTION=8097246]gajCA
: Thanks for the suggestion. Do QAcoustics sell in the US? I tried to find dealer on their website and US wasn't even listed. I'll look forward to your review on them!

I was considering tower speakers (since I have good aesthetic space to keep them). Would you recommend book shelves with sub or just tower (with maybe sub) ? I guess it depends on the speakers.
No, Q Acoustics is not available in brick and mortar stores in the US but those who have bought them here on AVS love them, (there are several Q Acoustics threads).

For budget, bookshelf speakers with a great sub makes sense; for me and music servo subs are the only way to go and Rhthmik offers the best bang for buck servo subs out there.

Rhythmik is not available in brick in mortar stores either.

So a pair of $500/pair bookshelves with a $500 sub would likely sound at least as good as buying that same company's $1,000/pair towers for music.

For Home Theater the bookshelf/sub setup would sound best, no question.

But sometimes I like to listen to music with no sub so in my Home Theater I have towers with a servo sub.
 
#14 ·
Ahead Stereo has some great brands to audition including B&W.

http://aheadstereo.com/content/

As do these guys.

http://www.monacoav.com/index.htm#_

http://www.audio-element.com/products-1.html

I LOVE Usher speakers; the ONLY place to audition them in the US now is in LA!

You are a very lucky guy.

Don't be intimidated by the mega dollar speakers, they have affordable ones as well.

I've owned B&W speakers for decades but the Usher speakers in the $1500/pair or less range simply blow them away IMHO.

http://katli.com/gallery.htm

I'd love to hear your impression of the successors to my speakers, the Usher N6311's (assuming they have them or the bookshelf version on the floor) as I can never recommend them to anyone on AVS because they can't audition them...but you can.

http://usheraudio.us/?page_id=50

You are in one of the best areas in the US to audition multiple quality speaker brands, some of which nobody else in the country has the privilege to listen to.
 
#23 ·
#24 ·
Next Wednesday.

After being knocked about a bit they came on AVS and said they'd offer free trials, (no purchase necessary, no cost), to audition their speakers and only me and Zorba, who is a skeptic, took them up on it.

I thought that was a very generous offer, (I don't need another pair of speakers I just bought some Martin Logan LX16's that I really like for cheap), so figured, heck, why not, if they really can't measure up to LX16's, my ANCIENT B&W 100i's or my daughter's 30 year old B&W Concept 90 CM1's I'll certainly say that.

If they do, or are close, I'll say that also,

IIRC correctly the only one of those speakers I'll be testing them against that were in the same price range back in the day were the DM100i's. The CM1's were $1000+ per pair back in the day, (still in perfect shape), and the modern LX16's are $800/pair MSRP speakers and even now are more expensive than the Concept 20's discounted as they are discontinued.

It'll be a fun experiment and I'll simply return them for free when done as will Zorba who is testing them against his Wharfedales IIRC.

Can't recall recently another manufacturer trying to rise to criticism like that on AVS which I find admirable.

I might even try them against my Ushers if they best those other speakers in the Semis. :p
 
#26 · (Edited)
Yes I did.

I'm about 1/4 through the "breaking in" process that Steve from Q Acoustics requested I undergo before doing critical listening which will be primarily against my recently purchased Martin Logan LX16 speakers that, when new, had a MSRP of $798. The Q Acoustics Concept 20's MSRP is $430.

Here are a few pics, one of them shows the Q Acoustics on stands next to my LX16's. The Concept 20's are the larger speaker on the taller stand.

Sorry about the mess.

First impressions are that everything Q Acoustics says about their speakers is true.

Exceptional build quality, and excellent neutral sound with no sibilance in the highs and no boomy/chesty bass/midbass.

They play surprising low considering their specs, (though any stand mount speaker will benefit from an inexpensive sub that plays down to 30hz for music), and give the far more expensive LX16's everything they can handle.

Without "critical" listening to this point it is a tie, believe it or not.

I wouldn't hesitate even at this point to recommend the Concept 20's.

And Steve sent me the proprietary stands which while expensive seem worth every penny believe it or not.

Rapping my knuckles on the cabinet of the LX16 gives a mild knocking sound, so good cabinet rigidity/lack of resonance.

Rapping my knuckles on the cabinet of the Concept 20 gives a noise like rapping your knuckles on a cinder block, so even better cabinet rigidity/lack of resonance.

I should not that I'm playing them both through my 30 year old 50 watt/channel NAD7250PE receiver and they both play very loud, so neither speaker need a huge amp to get huge sound. The LX16 specs suggest they are more efficient than the specs of the Concept 20's but I found the opposite to be true. The Concept 20's are about 2db more sensitive on my Sound Level Meter when playing pink noise through both at the same volume setting so it seems that, at least on that measure, Q Acoustics is not over stating their specs relative to Martin Logan.
 

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