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Different cable quality on fronts, center & surround?

7K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  Shadowed 
#1 ·
While trying to figure out an appropriate cost ratio for my setup I realized that maybe surround speakers doesn’t deserve as high quality as fronts & center does? It seems like virtually everyone has a different opinion regarding whether or not cable quality matters at all so it’s difficult for someone as ignorant as me to know what’s what.

So I’d like to know what you guys’ philosophy regarding cable quality on front vs center vs surround is?

And also, how high quality should the cables be for the particular speakers/setup I’m thinking of running? Any cables you’d recommend? Nordost? QED? How much does it matter?

Fronts: Klipsch RF-7 II
Center: Klipsch RC-64 II
Surround: 4x Klipsch RS-62 II
Sub: 2x SVS PB13-ultra

Preamp: Marantz AV7703
Amp fronts: Rotel RB-1590
Amp center + surround: Rotel RMB-1585
Source: Panasonic DMP-UB900 / Oppo UDP-203
 
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#2 ·
Oh dear, you think that pure copper 14 gauge or even 16 gauge for that matter is not as good as those mentioned above?

Monoprice has all the quality speaker wire you want for not much money.

If you want to splurge you can get the fancy looking wire terminated with Banana Plugs, but, sadly, you won't be spending a lot of money so you might not think you're getting quality, which you most certainly are.



http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14917

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15520
 
#5 ·
Thanks for all the information guys. Very valuable input. I think I have a better idea now about what’s important regarding cables after reading your replies and a few more cable guides.

Oh dear, you think that pure copper 14 gauge or even 16 gauge for that matter is not as good as those mentioned above?
I have no idea, that’s why I’m asking :) I am like jon snow when it comes to cables, but I’m pleased to learn that you think they are.

FYI, because you're new here, know that this is generally a very anti-audiophile cable forum.
That’s interesting to know. It’s certainly tempting to fall into that category even before I’ve even heard a comparison purely based on the sports car like prices on certain cables.

Just out of curiosity: when you say 10ga and 12ga, are those AWG or the Chinese WG so to speak. I was reading on ebay via one of the links alan0354 provided that certain manufacturers call their cables 10GA, 12GA etc. short for gauge, but doesn’t follow the AWG standard sizes, they are actually slightly smaller and have fewer strands.

http://stores.ebay.com/SaveHerePayLess/Tech-Support

I noticed it as it said in capitalized red letters “THIS IS NOT AWG AMERICAN WIRE GAUGE” which I initially thought was a weird thing to say.

Followup question:

What does it mean when the specs on Nordosts XLR cable states:

Construction: 6x 26 AWG
Or
Construction: 4x 26 AWG

Which AWG dimensions are the Mogami gold XLR cables adrummingdude?

Thank you for the links & your input alan0354, I learned something very important!
 
#3 ·
FYI, because you're new here, know that this is generally a very anti-audiophile cable forum. There are plenty of guys who profess there being absolutely no difference between lamp cord, cat 6 cable, wire coat hangers, and $50,000 speaker wires as far as sound quality is concerned.

I'm not among them, as I do believe that capacitance and skin effect are real things. However, while cables may have a slight difference in sound, I think it's impossible to design a cable that will always sound better with any load in any room. In fact, I think cable gauge is the biggest determining factor, and you don't have to spend a lot for that.

I use Blue Jeans speaker wire, 10ga for mains, 12ga for center and surrounds. I also use BJC HDMI cables, and use Mogami gold XLR patch cables between my processor and amps. All total I have maybe $1000 worth of cable and wire, and I think it sounds great.

Would $10,000 cables sound better? Maybe, but I'd rather upgrade my speakers for that, since I KNOW that will sound better.
 
#8 ·
I do believe that capacitance and skin effect are real things.
They are. But skin effect is a radio frequency issue, not audio frequency, and cable capacitance bears no relationship with cable price. Plain zip cord has low capacitance, while many high priced exotic constructions have very high capacitance.

OP, buy the least expensive pure copper conductor wire you can find, using this to determine the gauge that you need:
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf
Go bigger if you want, but it won't be better, just bigger.

As for your admitted ignorance with respect to cables, here's the cure:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
http://www.verber.com/mark/ce/cables.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...-versus-aluminum-foil-speaker-cable-test.html
 
#4 ·
I am a true believer of big cables. BUT I don't believe in exotic cable. This is what I would get:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monster-Cab...618957?hash=item2ef36ec6cd:g:hZoAAOSw0UdXvKrW

Klipch is very efficient speaker. I would use 2 pairs in parallel for each of the two main speakers. one pair for center, and the rear speakers. 100' for $70 should be more than enough for you already. Don't make it longer than necessary.

If you want to go cheaper, you can get http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-feet-12...717991?hash=item2355a4c8a7:g:9KgAAOSwmLlYBogc

I like the monster because the insulation is thicker, which gives lower capacitance. But that's just me.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I bought the Monster cable, they looked ok. The key is to double up, meaning using two pairs, twist them in parallel so you have two pairs to do the job. People thing there is advantage paralleling two pair of smaller cable vs one heavy pair. In fact I know some brands using many pairs of smaller gauge in parallel to make up the heavy cable. You get less inductance, more surface area..................But at audio frequency, skin effect is not very important as the skin depth is very thick.

My point is getting the cable cheap, pair them up to get thicker cable.

I am surprised too there are people here that is very anti cable, that they thing anything is good enough. I used to be one of them until I bought my last pair of speakers. When I hooked the new one up, it did not sound any better than the old pair even though I paid 3 times the price. I almost returned them. Then I thought maybe I play with the cable. I went out and bought some fake Monster like cables. I can tell you every pair I double up, the sound improves. I ended up using 3 pairs in parallel. The sound just open up, the sound stage becomes very good it almost like having echo, in a big concert hall.

Construction: 6x 26 AWG
Or
Construction: 4x 26 AWG


I think this is what I describe about some company pairing up smaller cables. like 6 pairs of 26 gauge wires in parallel.

I am sure there is some reason, but I would say don't worry about it. As I said using two pairs of 12 gauge is plenty if you have less than 10' length. There are snake oil out there, but there are truth about having big cables.
 
#7 ·
That's very interesting what you're describing about the pairing although I don't think I would enjoy watching movies with an echo or concert hall sound effect. But I guess I'd have to listen to it to understand better how it would sound.
Construction: 6x 26 AWG
Or
Construction: 4x 26 AWG


I think this is what I describe about some company pairing up smaller cables. like 6 pairs of 26 gauge wires in parallel.

I am sure there is some reason, but I would say don't worry about it. As I said using two pairs of 12 gauge is plenty if you have less than 10' length. There are snake oil out there, but there are truth about having big cables.
This 4x 26 AWG XLR Cable was 9 feet long. At first I was thinking that 26 AWG sounded really high for such a long cable after looking at the chart gajCA linked, but I guess it doesn't follow that chart since this cable is 4 conductor and the chart is made for 2 conductor? Am I understanding it correct now?
 
#10 ·
I've seen all sorts of weird speaker cables

Some nut used cables off a welder to wire his stereo--because overkill rocks! I do find it rather odd that people will use all sorts of expensive speaker wire when the internal speaker wiring is normal zip wire. A buddy of mine built some bipole surrounds and asked what wire to use internally, I told him 16 AWG since two sets of wire will be in parallel for 13 AWG if he wants thick wire to help him sleep at night. He bought a 100 foot spool :eek: so he could use two pairs for 13 AWG to wire his AVR to the surrounds about 18 feet back.

If you want them to look pretty, there are all sorts of sheathing that will keep you occupied. Banana plugs that have a locking feature work well at the AVR end to keep wires from touching each other. They don't "sound better" but they do make plugging in 7 speakers or more much easier and safer.

I use 12 AWG Rapco cable from my PA days years ago. Cut off the pro grade plugs, slap on some bananas and go. It was used to run 25 feet feeding 4 ohm bass bins at 750 watts per side, no problem handling an AVR.

If you want some overkill, a spool of 100 feet of 12 AWG will do it--or go 14 AWG if you have to route it around your room. 12 AWG does not flex as well so make sure the big stuff won't mess things up for you.

Good luck with your system :)
 
#12 · (Edited)
I've seen all sorts of weird speaker cables

Some nut used cables off a welder to wire his stereo--because overkill rocks! I do find it rather odd that people will use all sorts of expensive speaker wire when the internal speaker wiring is normal zip wire...................
This is so true. I had an old pair of Kef Uni-Q floor standing speakers with 2 X 6" woofers each, those already cost me over $1000 new. I opened it up and notice the wires were so small it's pitiful. I actually did an experiment. I beefed up all the wires of one speaker, I even beefed up the traces on the pcb of the crossover circuit. I compare with the other one that was original. I swear I can hear a little difference. I am not going to say it's not psychosomatic on my part. I can only tell you my impression, no DBT. I then beefed up the other speaker, then I couldn't hear any difference anymore.

Don't take for granted a name brand speaker do everything right. Kef is in no way cheap speakers. It only cost me pennys to beef up the speakers. That pair of speakers are with my stepson now.


EDIT: Don't think this is limited to Speakers. Power amp might be the same. I bought a used Nakamichi PS-7 designed by the great Nelson Pass that is almost the same circuit as the Threshold S300. It was not a working amp I bought for about $600. I fixed the problems, recap all the power supply capacitors and check the wiring. Most of the wires including the speaker wires were 16 gauge!!!. I parallel the speaker wires, the ground wires and the power supply wires with thicker wires on top of the small ones before I close it up. You are talking about one designed by Nelson Pass!!!....The founder of Threshold in the 80s and Pass Lab.
 
#14 ·
What's really important is the end-to-end resistance of the wire. Short small diameter cables are about the same as long large diameter cables.
Be aware that some cables sold in the big-box stores is Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA). It will have a higher end-to-end resistance than the same diameter copper wire.
 
#22 ·
Hi,

My front setup requires max 16 feet and rear setup requires max 32 feet.

I will be using Jamo HCS 628 which are 6ohm speakers.

Please advise should I go for 12awg or 14awg? Also please advice either to go with media bridge ofc cable or monoprice ?

Thanks,
Get the 12 gauge, don't worry about the brand. Get the monster like cable for cheap, they have thick sleeves that lower the capacitance also. they are soft enough.
 
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