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Question re 2-channel virtual surround connections & equip.

2K views 12 replies 3 participants last post by  ADU 
#1 ·
My sources are an older Sony BD player with HDMI and digital coaxial output, and a Sammy J5200 LED TV that I think has optical output/passthru.

I want to use these to drive various analog 2-channel devices, including a graphic EQ, headphone amp, and a pair of powered studio loudspeakers. My question is how do I get multi-channel audio tracks (such as the lossless DTS master tracks on BDs) from either or both of the above sources into an analog 2-channel virtual surround format that will work with all these devices without using an AVR, or spending a fortune on a very high-end surround processor?

I feel like there should be a really simple solution to this, but I don't know what it is. I think my TV may also have an analog audio output though. So perhaps there's some way I can use the TV to mix-down the DTS BD tracks to 2-channels of virtual surround sound, and use that to drive my stereo analog devices? :confused:
 
#3 ·
Have you ever compared a true surround system (anything which has side/rear speakers, not just front) to simulated "virtual surround" systems? I have tried several and found them all to be quite poor and artificial sounding. I far more enjoy using just two front speakers in normal stereo mode, for example, if limited to an environment where I can't use true surround speakers. Just my 2 cents.

Of course everyone hates the nuisance of wiring up a system with two or more extra speakers besides the front two so there is a large demand for virtual surround systems, hence there is a market and people willing to benefit from that demand make all sorts of products, but none I have ever experienced seem worth owning. YMMV.
 
#4 ·
Have you ever compared a true surround system (anything which has side/rear speakers, not just front) to simulated "virtual surround" systems?
Thanks for the reply m. zillch. I haven't tried a real surround system, and have no place for one in my apt. I do most of my listening on headphones (in stereo mode). But I'm considering adding a pair of powered speakers as well, mostly for music.

I feel like I'm missing something though because I can't take better advantage of DTS surround sound in my current setup. Hence my question above.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I like headphones. I like stereo. I like surround sound Dolby and DTS mixed down to 2ch for headphones and stereo speakers [all BD players do this automatically when you tell them to only give you 2ch of sound and it works OK, but is not as good as the real deal, no). And I also like true surround formats from Dolby and DTS through 5.1 and 7.1 speakers (I have both, 7.1 isn't worth it unless you have two or more rows of seating in my opinion), but the one thing I couldn't live with is fake surround sound; it just doesn't do it for me and it seems, for lack of a better word, "gimmicky" to me.

If you can't accommodate side speakers (most people incorrectly think they are "rear speakers", but in truth they should be directly to your sides or at most 110 degrees away from the direct front) I think you should stick to the other things. That's what I'd do.

Is what's holding you back from real surround sound out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking:

-eye sores?
-takes up too much real estate?
-lengthy/costly wiring session?
-price?
-neighbor noise complaints?
-spousal acceptance factor?
-trip hazard of wires running about the room?

I sold this stuff professionally for many years so I might know some tricks to get around these things or could clear up some possible misconceptions. For instance the side ("rear") speakers don't need to be as big as the front and there are various ways to conceal them. Some are as small as say a tall boy can of beer/soda per speaker.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I like headphones. I like stereo....
Your help on this is greatly appreciated mz.

What's preventing me from doing a real surround setup are the thin walls in my building, the cost, and lack of a good dedicated space to set up the equipment. When I'm a little richer and can afford my own place, I might consider it. But it's just not an option right now.

My Sony S390 BD player does have stereo analog RCA outputs btw. You can see them on the left side of the rear panel below the composite video and coaxial RCA outputs, next to the HDMI port...



This is what I currently use for my 2 channel listening. And most current consumer BD players lack these analog outputs.

These are the Audio settings on the player...



The last setting enables/disables a virtual rear channel on Dolby surround tracks on the analog RCA outs. But it doesn't work well with DTS tracks. So I generally just leave it set to Stereo...



There is also a Dolby / DTS setting for the coaxial output...



And a couple of settings for HDMI audio...





The "BD Audio Mix setting" is for interactive audio content, and the "Audio DRC" is dynamic range correction, so those have nothing to do with surround or stereo output, and I generally leave them off.
 

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#7 ·
I looked at the Sound settings and connectors on my TV as well, and there do appear to be both optical and analog (headphone) outputs. But the TV's virtual surround Sound Effects only seem to work with the internal speakers...







When I switch to analog/optical Audio Out, all the Sound Modes and FX options become disabled...





And the only options I can adjust are the SPDIF/optical Audio Format (PCM, or DTS Neo 2:5 with my HDMI Blu-ray input), and the Dolby Digital Compression (Line or RF)...



 

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#9 ·
Sorry, I don't know of any other ways to invoke the modes you seek beyond what you've posted. Good luck.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thanks for taking a look, mz.

If anyone else has suggestions on how to use the optical or coaxial outputs to accomplish what I want, or other equipment I should be looking at, I'm all ears. My budget is limited though. And I'm trying to avoid AVRs because they're a waste of energy for headphones and powered speakers.

Maybe what I need is an affordable pre-pro or different BD player that can convert DTS and other multi-channel tracks to 2-channels of analog audio with virtual surround FX.
 
#11 ·
ADU,

There's a relatively simple interconnection scheme that I didn't see mentioned. Maybe I just overlooked it among the virtual surround discussion. Maybe you've already considered and rejected it.

You can connect the Blu-ray player's HDMI output to the TV and connect the TV's analog stereo output to your headphone amp or other audio system.. You'll need an adapter cable with a stereo minijack at one end (to plug into the TV) and dual RCA connectors at the other end (to plug into your headphone amp. Such cables are cheap and readily available.

The Blu-ray player will detect that the TV has only a stereo output and will downmix its HDMI audio to stereo. The TV will forward the incoming HDMI audio to its analog outputs.

There's no need for optical or other special cables or adapters.

Does this help at all or have I misunderstood what you're trying to do?
 
#12 · (Edited)
There's a relatively simple interconnection scheme that I didn't see mentioned...
Appreciate the reply, Selden.

Mixing down to regular 2-channel stereo is not a problem. I haven't figured out a reliable way to do it with virtual surround FX though, with my existing equipment. The Dolby virtual surround down-mixing feature on my BD player is very basic, and doesn't work well with the DTS MA tracks that are included on most Blu-rays now. And the DTS Trusurround HD Effects feature on my Sammy J5200 TV only seems to work with the internal speakers. So it looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I am still a relative newb to home audio though, and was hopin maybe there was another switch or button somewhere in my setup I had missed that might enable virtual surround FX on the DTS tracks. But it seems like that's not the case.

An AVR with virtual surround FX and L/R Front Preouts like the Marantz NR1506 looks like my only/best option at this point...

https://www.listenup.com/shop/media/catalog/product/m/t/mtz-nr1506-2.jpg

I really only need the virtual sound FX for newer Blu-rays though, which represent a fairly small part of my viewing/listening. And can't really justify spending $400 on a new AVR just for that. So I'm hopin someone here has some other ideas I can try to get this to work.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Still questing for some virtual surround FX.

I paid a visit to my local BB last weekend, and after chatting with a fairly knowledgeable fellow in the AV dept, I came away even more confused than when I went in. :confused: I think he made some good points about the DAC in the Marantz NR1506 though... If I'm goin to drop a few hundred on an AVR, or possibly a new player, then it might make sense to get something with a better 32-bit DAC.

I believe the Marantz NR1506 uses a Burr-Brown 24-bit DAC. Better DACs cost more money though.

Since I don't really need all the features of an AVR, the other thing I'm considering is a new player. I already contacted Oppo, and it appears none of their players include virtual surround FX. Though they all have analog audio outs. And I believe the 105, 203, and 205 include 32-bit DACs.

Since I currently own a Sony, I was hopin maybe their new UBP-X800 UHD player might have analog outs, but no dice their either...



There are other brands and players to explore though. Hopefully one will have the features I need at a reasonable cost. My search continues...
 
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