Room EQ Wizard (free measurement and parametric EQ setup software) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 855 Old 04-11-2005, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hi All,

Beta testing has been going well so I've made the latest version of my Room EQ Wizard software available for download from http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mu...meq/index.html

Room EQ Wizard is a Java application for measuring and correcting room resonances. It includes tools for generating test signals, measuring SPL and frequency responses and automatically adjusting the settings of parametric equalisers to cancel the effects of room modes. It was initially written to help with the setup of the parametric TMREQ filters on TAG McLaren Audio AV32RDP and AV192R, but the latest version also supports the BFD Pro parametric filters (with correct modelling of the effect of the bandwidth control, which is quite different to the description in the BFD manual ).

Measurement is stepped sine, with local loopback for soundcard response compensation and DFT to isolate the measurement frequency. Log swept sine measurement and impulse response extraction are on the dev list but some way off. The Wizard can also import measurements in the ETF export formats or from text files in a basic comma-delimited format - details are in the help files, which can be browsed online at the site and are included in the program.

The sig gen provides sine waves to 0.1Hz precision, sine sweeps (linear and logarithmic), square waves and various pink noise signals including "full" range (pink spectrum down to just below 10Hz), speaker cal, sub cal and custom filtered to suit your needs.

Note that the app requires V5.0 or later of Sun's Java Runtime Environment (JRE) to be installed, available from http://java.sun.com/j2se/downloads.html

Hope it proves useful.

Best regards,

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 855 Old 04-11-2005, 12:18 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Very cool! Too bad I just spent too much for an analog parametric, which I was going to use with TrueRTA. At least I haven't bought the latter yet

So what's the learning curve and user friendliness EQ Wizard? Those were the reasons for my initial choices.

How long would it take to do the correction for a sub? Does the swept sine measurement mean it takes awhile?

Thanks

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #3 of 855 Old 04-11-2005, 12:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fraoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh, too cool!

Worlds colliding, worlds colliding! (HT and computers).
Fraoch is offline  
post #4 of 855 Old 04-11-2005, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hi Noah,

Measurement is stepped rather than swept, and it does indeed take a while as the software waits for the reading to stabilise (SPL display turns green when it is stable) before making a measurement and moving on the the next frequency. How long it takes to settle depends on the room, the frequency and the background noise, but probably averages about 1-2s per measurement so around 2-3 minutes to measure 20-120Hz in 1Hz steps. A bit tedious I know, but fairly reliable

You still need an equaliser, this app just helps work out how to set up the filters, so your money certainly wasn't wasted. It's fairly easy to use, and you get immediate visual feedback of the effect your filter tweaks will have on the response so its a quick way to manually tweak if you don't like the app's efforts at choosing filter settings. Easiest is to play around with it and see how you get on - just looking at how the individual filter gain and Q adjustments affect the overall filter frequency response can be useful.

Happy to answer questions as they arise.

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #5 of 855 Old 04-11-2005, 07:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Hi John,

"It's fairly easy to use, and you get immediate visual feedback of the effect your filter tweaks will have on the response "

Immediate meaning the 2-3 minutes (which isn't too bad), or do you mean dialing down a peak once they're located? But then I don't know what the BW needs to be.

Or am I not getting something?

Thanks

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #6 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I mean you get to see on the graph display the frequency response of the gain and bandwidth you are setting and how that will affect the measured response after you apply those corrections in your equaliser, you can easily see what bandwidth you need to set by adjusting the bandwidth setting for the relevant filter until the filter's response mirrors the measured response around that peaks's frequency - to make this easier the Wizard has a check box to draw the filter response inverted, so that it overlays the measurement. Have a look at this help page for more: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mu...djustment.html

Regards,

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #7 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 11:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 153
John,

That's excellent! I'll check it out.

Thanks very much.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #8 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 11:25 AM
Member
 
qxlxp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
did you write the curve fitting piece of the app that originally was on the TAG site or are you layering your work on top of it?

either way is great, but i always thought the underlying curve fitting piece was super slick.
qxlxp is online now  
post #9 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:


Originally posted by qxlxp
did you write the curve fitting piece of the app that originally was on the TAG site or are you layering your work on top of it?

either way is great, but i always thought the underlying curve fitting piece was super slick.

Yes, I wrote the original app as an interesting way to learn Java. Glad you liked it

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #10 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 01:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 14,780
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Very nice. Out of curiosity, have you compared the results to other programs?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is online now  
post #11 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:


Originally posted by Chu Gai
Very nice. Out of curiosity, have you compared the results to other programs?

Do you mean the measurement results? Measurements have been compared with data acquired by ETF, you should get a similar result to the t=0ms slice in an ETF low frequency response if you use a gate time of 300 - 600ms (in smaller rooms 600ms may be too long, the ETF measurement starts to look noisy and the level shifts when gate time is set too long). Since the software is measuring values you can (more or less) read off your SPL meter that also provides a handy check - differences are that the wizard is applying a DFT to exclude frequencies other than the current measurement frequency (noise, harmonic distortion) and if you have told it you have a C-weighted SPL meter (the default setting) it applies the inverse of the C weighting curve to get the true SPL.

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #12 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 04:42 PM
Member
 
nonstatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
wow, this is fantastic! i've been looking for a program like this for ages.
nonstatic is offline  
post #13 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Few updates made, details in the revision history on the web site, app now at V3.17. If anyone uses Behringer's DSP1100 software to look at filter responses, be warned: the bandwidths it uses for its response curve are sqrt(2) narrower than they should be and it appears to be modelled on analog prototype responses rather than actual digital biquads so it gets progressively more wrong compared to the actual unit as the frequency increases.

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #14 of 855 Old 04-12-2005, 09:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Chu Gai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NYC area
Posts: 14,780
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Well done JohnPM. Have one on me


"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
Chu Gai is online now  
post #15 of 855 Old 04-13-2005, 08:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Thomas-W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: 5280'
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 15
John,

Is there anyway to import ETF data?

I understand you're traveling so I patiently wait for your reply.

Thanks
Thomas


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Thomas-W is offline  
post #16 of 855 Old 04-13-2005, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hi Thomas,

I haven't left yet, flight is about 14h from now. Yes, you can import data saved from ETF using ETF's export features, Low Freq response data is most useful. More here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mu...ataimport.html

Regards,

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #17 of 855 Old 04-13-2005, 12:50 PM
GGA
Advanced Member
 
GGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Topanga CA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I can confirm there is no problem importing files from ETF. Just make sure you have the graph that you want to export from ETF visible in the ETF screen; the whole file is not exported in one shot.

John's progam is outstanding to use in conjunction with ETF. I would almost consider it mandatory. I wouldn't doubt that the program is excellent on its own but I haven't tried it yet.

This link takes you to a wonderful guide on setting up subs and speakers with ETF:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/misc...EQCaseStudy.pdf

John, in your detailed pdf you make no mention of phase. For those that don't know ETF can produce phase graphs for your sub and speaker and phase can be adjusted by using time delay in your processor or on your sub. I had read that it is important for the phases of the sub and speaker to be fairly close at the crossover point.

What are your views on this? What would be the procedure for aligning phases using ETF?

Many thanks,
George
GGA is online now  
post #18 of 855 Old 04-13-2005, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hi George,

I haven't used phase responses in setting up the system, if there is a problem with relative phase between sub and mains it will show up in frequency response particuarly in the crossover region between the two, just make some measurements of each main speaker with bass redirection active (assuming the mains are bass limited, otherwise a bit moot) so the sub is contributing and look at the overall measured response. A couple of measurements with the sub phase normal and reversed will give a quick indication which is working best, could then tweak the phase from there. It can be pretty tricky to arrive at a setting that works for all of L, C and R even if your sub is symmetrically placed (which it usually isn't). Have to pick the best compromise.

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #19 of 855 Old 04-13-2005, 01:53 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 153
"John's progam is outstanding to use in conjunction with ETF. I would almost consider it mandatory."

John's program, or ETF?

Thanks

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #20 of 855 Old 04-13-2005, 02:20 PM
GGA
Advanced Member
 
GGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Topanga CA
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 13
If you have ETF I would consider it mandatory to use John's program in conjunction with ETF.
All the best,
George
GGA is online now  
post #21 of 855 Old 04-14-2005, 08:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kromkamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 4,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 25
What can this software do that ETF cannot?
kromkamp is offline  
post #22 of 855 Old 04-14-2005, 04:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
sensibull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: www.portecho.net
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If I am reading the requirements correctly, my soundcard would need right and left (i.e. two) lines in and out to use this software? Neither my onboard sound, nor my soundcard (Chaintech AV-710) have two lines in or out, but might I be able to use the single lines in and out from both? Or could I split a single line in and a single line out?
sensibull is offline  
post #23 of 855 Old 04-14-2005, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:


Originally posted by kromkamp
What can this software do that ETF cannot?

Work out equaliser settings for you and show you the effect of equaliser settings of your own. There is lots that ETF can do that this software cannot, mind, as stated above the wizard is using a basic stepped sine measurement. If you would like to know more about what the Room EQ Wizard can and cannot do the online help pages are a good place to start.

Regards,

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #24 of 855 Old 04-14-2005, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:


Originally posted by sensibull
If I am reading the requirements correctly, my soundcard would need right and left (i.e. two) lines in and out to use this software? Neither my onboard sound, nor my soundcard (Chaintech AV-710) have two lines in or out, but might I be able to use the single lines in and out from both? Or could I split a single line in and a single line out?

Hi,

Your soundcard has all the I/O you need and more. The right and left are the two halves of a stereo pair, your soundcards inputs and outputs are stereo. You can just use the card's line in and the line out that is normally assigned to left&right channels (as your card actually has 4 stereo line outs). I think that card has connectors that take jack plugs, so you will need a pair of jack plug - to - dual RCA leads and some RCA socket-RCA socket adaptors, there is some more info in the help. The connection requirements are the same as ETF, for example.

Regards,

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #25 of 855 Old 04-14-2005, 05:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
sensibull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: www.portecho.net
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks John. I thought that might be the case (that's what I meant by "split"), but just wanted to check for sure. All your hard work is much appreciated, as a newbie to parametric EQ. Will certainly take some of the monotony and time expenditure out of the task ahead...

Cheers :-)
sensibull is offline  
post #26 of 855 Old 04-15-2005, 03:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
BradJudy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Louisville, Colorado
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's good to read this. I downloaded and played with the app last night to compare with my ETF measurements. I must have not noticed the default C weighting settings as the low end (especially under 40Hz) seemed distorted compared to my ETF measurements. I'll change this and try again.

Other than needing to find a setting that is faster for the sweeps (the default 10 minute one was painful ), the process was pretty good. Great work and thanks for making it available.

Once I check the C-weighting thing, I will follow up with my posts on this on other forums.
BradJudy is offline  
post #27 of 855 Old 04-16-2005, 07:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BGLeduc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked: 217
Quote:


Other than needing to find a setting that is faster for the sweeps (the default 10 minute one was painful ), the process was pretty good. Great work and thanks for making it available.

This is very cool software! I was able to spend yesterday afternoon playing with it, and thus far, I would have to say that its a pretty short learning curve, and that coming from someone with little previous experience with ETF, SpectraPLUS etc.

I do have some questions, but I am going to withhold those until I have a chance to run anther session with the software...don't want to expose too much ignorance!

When I did my sub measurements, I choose to run sines in 1 Hz increments from 20 to 120 Hz. In my room, it surely did not take 10 minutes.

What did I do that was different from your procedures Brad?

BGL
BGLeduc is offline  
post #28 of 855 Old 04-16-2005, 08:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
BradJudy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Louisville, Colorado
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The only difference I can think of is that I did a 20-200Hz sweep which would take almost twice as long as a 20-120Hz one. If I can tweak a sweep to under one minute or preferably under 30 seconds, that would be good for me (my ETF measurements take 5 seconds, but aren't 1Hz intervals).
BradJudy is offline  
post #29 of 855 Old 04-16-2005, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
JohnPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hi Brad,

If you do a Low Frequency response measurement on ETF with the long measurement time selected and export the data you should end up with either 0.67Hz or 0.37Hz (approx) resolution in the exported data - you need to use a higher gate time to get the greater resolution, 600ms or above, though this may be too high for smaller rooms or measurements with poor signal-to-noise. Would pretty much always expect to be using at least 300ms, however.

Room EQ Wizard will eventually have the option for logarithmically swept sine measurements, probably a 5 or a 10s sweep, but that is some months away.

Regards,

John

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnPM is offline  
post #30 of 855 Old 04-17-2005, 08:09 PM
Newbie
 
DavidDahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi all,

I've been waiting a long time for something like this.

I have also run into two problems while using it. I am convinced it's not a problem with the program but rather a problem on my end. First, the computer cannot seem to locate the loopback on the left channel. I have triple-checked the connections and am so far at a loss. Second, Although I can generate test tones that are picked up at the SPL meter I cannot seem to calibrate the program. It says that the input level is set to maximum (1.0) and that I should reduce the settings on the SPL meter. My concern is that the SPL meter is already set pretty low and I am unable to hear anything from the right speaker indicating that there is calibrating even going on.

Any ideas?

-Dave
DavidDahl is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

Tags
Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Room Equalizer Wizard

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off