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post #271 of 358 Old 10-23-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John L. Murphy View Post

Hello TrueRTA users! This is to announce that TrueRTA version 3.5.0 has been released and is available for download at trueaudio.com. This is a free upgrade for all TrueRTA version 3 users. Here is a link to the download page:
The new version is Windows 7 compatible and allows selection of audio devices from within the software. Quick Sweep now operates reliably at all signal levels. Many small improvements and bug fixes have been made. An all new Quick Start section details setup under Windows XP and earlier, Vista and Windows 7. Application Note 1 covering self test of the PC sound system has been greatly expanded and should now answer many of your original questions and get new users started using the software more quickly. I hope you find the new version easier to use than ever and that it allows you to be more productive in your audio testing.

Thank you for using and supporting TrueRTA!

Warm Regards,

John

When I go to the link you posted for the user 3 upgrade I cannot find where to download it? am I blind?
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post #272 of 358 Old 10-23-2010, 06:41 PM
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Can anyone point me to a good (easy to understand) explanation to how to measure speaker frequency response using TrueRTA.

I assume you reviewed the opening pages of this thread?


Quote:


I am thinking of buying a M-Audio PreMobile. Is that a good idea?

It won't do anything for you that your Behringer and Realtek aren't already doing.

Regards,
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post #273 of 358 Old 10-23-2010, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post


I assume you reviewed the opening pages of this thread?


It won't do anything for you that your Behringer and Realtek aren't already doing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Yes I have read the start of this thread. I have read lots & lots, but no matter what I do the measurements are always like the one I posted.

I have also down loaded HOLMImpulse & tried it & am having similar problems, no matter what I do I dont get proper measurements.

There are two reasons for the M-Audio preamp, I get to see if it is my sound card causing problems & two I can use it with my daughters laptop, which is much more convenient. I am also going to buy a new EMC8000, I bought the one I have second hand on Ebay, I'm trying to eliminate any hardware issues.

Of course the real problem could be hardware I can't replace, my brain.

Any help would be most welcome.

David
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post #274 of 358 Old 10-25-2010, 03:10 PM
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I had my ECM8k calibrated by Herb Singleton @ Cross Spectrum. Very satisfied with the quick service and returned documentation. Along with the paper and emailed graph results, Herb sent data files for the 3 (0,45,90 degree) response results. These are files of file type FRD (i.e. narrow_band_response__0_degree.FRD) that "mostly" look like a mic cal file (frequency response) that I expected to see but have an additional zero on each line. Also, they are not directly readable (i.e. flat text) via Notepad. I can read them via Word, Wordpad, and another text editor. My question is, can I change the file type from FRD to TXT and expect my RTA program (TrueRTA) to properly read them as-is with the trailing zero on each line? I can certainly edit all that out and rename the files. But I was curious as to the file format, content, etc, that he supplied. I'm concerned because I don't know of a way to confirm that the mic cal file is being correctly interpreted (ignoring the trailing zero) if I just change the ftype from FRD to TXT and load it.
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post #275 of 358 Old 10-29-2010, 03:37 AM
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Well it turns out the ECM8000 microphone some kind soul sold me on ebay was a dud. I bought a new one & have been getting measurements that make sense.

It's nice to know my brain wasn't the problem after all Now the fun begins
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post #276 of 358 Old 11-02-2010, 02:24 PM
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Im thinking of buying the following for my test rig:

- E-mu 0404 (USB)
- ECM8000 (calibrated)
- TrueRTA

Can I connect the 0404 directly to a speaker or do I need an amplifier also?
If an amplifier is needed, then won't the amplifiers frequency response affect my measurements?
Im very new to this game, so correct me if im wrong here.
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post #277 of 358 Old 11-02-2010, 08:24 PM
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If your speakers are active (self-powered), then you don't need a separate amplifier. If they aren’t, then you will need an amp.

Typically an amplifier has virtually flat frequency response, so you don’t need to worry about it affecting your measurements.

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post #278 of 358 Old 11-09-2010, 06:48 AM
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I want to measure dB SPL as a function of time not frequency. Is there any way doing this with the true rta software?
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post #279 of 358 Old 11-13-2010, 05:16 AM
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To do a proper spl calibration, would I need a spl meter? I'm trying to get set up using a Dayton EMM-6 measurement mic with calibration file and a M-Audio Profire 610 I will use as a soundcard.
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post #280 of 358 Old 11-13-2010, 06:50 AM
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It should be fine. You’d just have to keep in mind that the SPL (dB) side of the graph isn’t meaningful in an absolute sense. However, you would still be able to determine that you have a 8 dB peak at a certain frequency, for instance.

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post #281 of 358 Old 11-14-2010, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHorn View Post

I had my ECM8k calibrated by Herb Singleton @ Cross Spectrum. Very satisfied with the quick service and returned documentation. Along with the paper and emailed graph results, Herb sent data files for the 3 (0,45,90 degree) response results. These are files of file type FRD (i.e. narrow_band_response__0_degree.FRD) that "mostly" look like a mic cal file (frequency response) that I expected to see but have an additional zero on each line. Also, they are not directly readable (i.e. flat text) via Notepad. I can read them via Word, Wordpad, and another text editor. My question is, can I change the file type from FRD to TXT and expect my RTA program (TrueRTA) to properly read them as-is with the trailing zero on each line? I can certainly edit all that out and rename the files. But I was curious as to the file format, content, etc, that he supplied. I'm concerned because I don't know of a way to confirm that the mic cal file is being correctly interpreted (ignoring the trailing zero) if I just change the ftype from FRD to TXT and load it.

Im running TrueRTA on Windows 7 64-bit, and if i try to load the file after changing it from .frd to .txt, the program closes with an error

edit:
Found the answer, too many data points in the file. (1600+, and the limit for TrueRTA is a little over 800)
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post #282 of 358 Old 12-29-2010, 05:17 PM
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In the instructions for measuring the Line In and Line Out voltages they say to use a loop to in and out and a Y adapter from which to take the voltage measurements. If the same loop is in place for both voltage measurements (Input & Output) what's the purpose of measuring at the input and again separately at the output? If the In and Out are connected together each test would produce the same voltage level. Or am I missing something here (entirely and probably possible)?

Stumped...

P.S. Where did the rest of this thread go? It appears to end in November 2010.
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post #283 of 358 Old 12-29-2010, 05:19 PM
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post #284 of 358 Old 12-30-2010, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avpman View Post

In the instructions for measuring the Line In and Line Out voltages they say to use a loop to in and out and a Y adapter from which to take the voltage measurements. If the same loop is in place for both voltage measurements (Input & Output) what's the purpose of measuring at the input and again separately at the output? If the In and Out are connected together each test would produce the same voltage level. Or am I missing something here (entirely and probably possible)?

The purpose of the loopback is for the program to determine the frequency response of the sound card, since many of them are not perfectly flat. The program can then make corrections to any measurements to compensate for the sound card.

Quote:


P.S. Where did the rest of this thread go? It appears to end in November 2010.

It didn't end; there just haven't been any new posts since then.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



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post #285 of 358 Old 12-30-2010, 09:41 AM
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Hi Wayne,

Thanks for the quick reply. I think we're talking about two different things. I think you're describing the purpose of the "Sound System Calibration" menu item. That one I understand. What I was referring to was the "Input Calibration" and "Output Calibration" menu items where you measure the voltage of the test signal. If during those tests the same loopback and Y connector is still in place (for each test) I don't understand why it's necessary to do an Input AND Output Calibration. Because essentially you're still measuring the same connection twice.
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post #286 of 358 Old 01-10-2011, 04:20 AM
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Hi,

Thanks for all your information so far. I have a question.

I've got a Mackie Onyx Blackjack interface which in normal use runs at 44 kHz. I've read the instructions for soundcard calibration that says to do that with I/O settings at 48 kHz.

Should I better make the calibration file at 44 or at 48 kHz settings due to the above?

Kind regards, Charles
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post #287 of 358 Old 01-15-2011, 06:23 PM
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Good evening all,

Newbie with true RTA, read the dummie guide, purchased the 1/6 octave, followed the guide for setup calibration and measurement and you can see in attachment what i got. Not sure what to make of it so i am seeking your input

Alain

 

beforeaudyssey.pdf 8.93359375k . file

 

beforeaudyssey.txt 1.3955078125k . file

Alain Pilon

Lasalle, Québec Canada
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post #288 of 358 Old 01-19-2011, 07:06 AM
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Is it possible to use TRTA while playing a CD of pink noise?

My car's sound system has some obvious FR flaws that are not correctable using its EQ adjustments. I am considering burning CDs that have been processed with an EQ correction curve derived from direct measurement of the system's FR. There is no easy way for me to feed the pink noise from TRTA into the system in real time, so is it possible to use it with pink noise on a CD?

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post #289 of 358 Old 05-09-2011, 09:33 PM
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DEAD THREAD ALERT! DEAD THREAD ALERT!!

I had my system professionally voiced only 20 years ago, and it's already giving me problems!!

Of course, I've changed a lot of components ... and I've moved since. Think that has anything to do with it?

So, here I am. Got the 1/6 octave version, but mostly for the additional calibration features. I expect I'll be running it at 1/3 mostly for home audio analysis. Also went with the TRTA website "system two" equipment list in hopes of heading off any incompatibility issues. Keeping my fingers crossed that XP Tablet Edition doesn't throw in any unexpected roadblocks. That's what came loaded on my Fujitsu Lifebook. Haven't seen anything in the thread one way or another on that OS.

Wish me luck!

Oh. I figured my trusty old BSR 14 octave equalizer would come up short, so I went wandering thru eBay and scored a Yamaha Q2031 (2 channel 1/3 octave) for $85 including shipping. That's about 10 cents on the dollar from the original purchase price, so it's either a steal or a brick - can't wait to find out. Add another $10 for a set of phone plug to rca adapters and I should be good to go. I've heard tell that a picture is worth a thousand words ... I do like the idea of having the 1/3 octave results on the TRTA screen directly correspond to the sliders on the eq.

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #290 of 358 Old 05-10-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSTRADIMWIT View Post

Oh. I figured my trusty old BSR 14 octave equalizer would come up short, so I went wandering thru eBay and scored a Yamaha Q2031 (2 channel 1/3 octave) for $85 including shipping. That's about 10 cents on the dollar from the original purchase price, so it's either a steal or a brick - can't wait to find out.

It's a brick. At least for pro-audio applications it is. Its filters are overly broad, so it's not terribly useful for feedback control, but that same problem probably makes it better suited for sound shaping in home audio. The later models (A or B suffix, IIR) are reasonably quiet and only slightly colored (you'll probably only notice the difference by switching back and forth between engaged and bypass using a pink noise signal source). However, if you're getting one of the older models with the +4 and -20 dB rear-panel switches, it may be noisy if you have to use the +4 position.

For full range use, a better choice would have been the digital YDP-2006 parametric or YDG-2030 1/3-octave models, which have pristine sonics. They can usually be had on ebay in the $100-$150 range.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



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post #291 of 358 Old 05-11-2011, 11:35 PM
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Dang ... five minutes of intensive research down the drain ...

Either way, should still be a major improvement over what I had, and I only plan to use it for my home system anyway, so I guess I stumbled into something decent. AssUming it doesn't burst into flames when I plug it in. It is the "B" series, so I suppose I could have done worse. I flipped a coin as to whether to use the XLR or phone jack inputs - either way, I'd need RCA adapters. I went with the phone jacks mostly because the adapters were cheaper ... and the rest of the system is unbalanced so why complicate things? Feel free to tell me I screwed up there too.

** Sounds like you're familiar with the eq - any idea how old the thing is? I see they're still selling the same series new, but that doesn't mean much. Anything older than maybe 10 years and I'd probably want to do a full recap on the board and power supply just to be able to experience the thing in all its ... mundane glory. At the very least, I expect some DeOxit on the sliders would pay dividends.

___________________________

I got the Dayton mike in the mail today ... spent the next half hour doing a shell game hunt for the configuration file on their website. I finally snuck in thru the back door using the link Parts Express has on their site. Here it is in case anyone else has the same problems finding it:

http://www.daytonaudio.com/support-Emm.cfm

___________________________

Oh. Speaking of parametric. I've got a McIntosh MQ104 to take care of the big lumps. I figure to run a curve without any processing, use the MQ104 to clean up the big spikes, then run another curve with that in line to see what's left for the Yamaha to deal with. In regards to the digital memory machines like the YDG-2030 you mentioned, one of things that I like about the Q2031 is the old skool sliders. I've got three "smart" eqs collecting dust on the bench that have gone south on me. Either they can't remember anything, or they make it up as they go along, throwing random settings every time I fire them up. My BSR14/14R is crapping at random again, which is what got me thinking eq again in the first place.

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #292 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 06:03 AM
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Help out a dummy here. Is there an advantage to insertion of all these processing components into the audio stream IF one has an AVR with Audyssey? Or is it Just a hobbyist "thing "??
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post #293 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Help out a dummy here. Is there an advantage to insertion of all these processing components into the audio stream IF one has an AVR with Audyssey? Or is it Just a hobbyist "thing "??

I'm a dummy too, but I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. No, really, I recently bought most of the equipment listed here, but haven't used it yet.

I suppose one could call it a hobbyist thing, but I get the impression that using a professional mic and a sound card, a pink noise generator, and professional software such as that mentioned here yields more precise, accurate, and comprehensive measurements. Furthermore, they allow a human, not a software algorithm -- albeit a very sophisticated one -- to address the deficiencies in the room. Even with an AVR with Audyssey, a hobbyist could get all these measurements and feedback and manually correct many of the things Audyssey missed or wasn't so accurate in addressing.

That's my take, anyway, for what it's worth. YMMV.
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post #294 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 07:38 AM
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If people want to know the truth about any piece of equipment, any change in their system, any placebo effect. They need to have measurement equipment/software


IMO, the Dayton Omni measurement system is probably what you guys should buy if they want a complete package. Its superior to anything TrueRTA is offering.


FWIW, TrueRTA is simply a waste of $$$ since ARTA, REW and HOLM are free and easier to use.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #295 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
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FWIW, TrueRTA is simply a waste of $$$ since ARTA, REW and HOLM are free and easier to use.

Lol. Yeah, after looking around a while, I finally figured out that REW is free and does just about everything the software packages that aren't free do. I installed it and the only thing stopping me from jumping in is the learning curve associated with any new kind of software and technical task.

The only equipment I had to buy that I didn't already have is the Behringer condenser mic (had cardioid mics and a Radio Shack SPL meter, but didn't want to use those) and XLR to USB and phantom power source converter. Already had a nice external sound card for use with my netbook.

Apart from the learning, I'm good to go with REW.
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post #296 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSTRADIMWIT View Post

I flipped a coin as to whether to use the XLR or phone jack inputs - either way, I'd need RCA adapters. I went with the phone jacks mostly because the adapters were cheaper ... and the rest of the system is unbalanced so why complicate things? Feel free to tell me I screwed up there too.

Nah, 1/4 plugs are just fine. As a freebie side benefit though, if you have downstream amps with balanced inputs you'd have balanced outputs from the EQ, despite using an unbalanced input signal.

Quote:


** Sounds like you're familiar with the eq - any idea how old the thing is?

Not sure about the B-version specifically, but the Q series has been around since at least the early 90s, and the A-version since the late 90s. Can't confirm it, but Ive heard rumours that it's sourced from Phonic.


Quote:


In regards to the digital memory machines like the YDG-2030 you mentioned, one of things that I like about the Q2031 is the old skool sliders. I've got three "smart" eqs collecting dust on the bench that have gone south on me. Either they can't remember anything, or they make it up as they go along, throwing random settings every time I fire them up. My BSR14/14R is crapping at random again, which is what got me thinking eq again in the first place.

With all due respect to the vintage BSR, you're comparing it to a $2000 professional equalizer. Having used several YDP-2006's (the parametric cousin of the YDG-2030), the only ones I've had problems with had lived a hard life on the road.

That said, there's no denying the cool mystique of a gaggle of sliders...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt




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post #297 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Help out a dummy here. Is there an advantage to insertion of all these processing components into the audio stream IF one has an AVR with Audyssey? Or is it Just a hobbyist "thing "??

For starters, not everyone has Audyssey. And some versions of Audyssey are not as powerful or effective as others. No auto-EQ system gets perfect results in every room, every time. There’s no substitute for the ear. Personally I wouldn’t buy a receiver with Audssey or any other auto EQ system that didn’t offer the capability to manually tweak the adjustments. If you have that capability on tap, then there’s no reason to use an outboard EQ.

Regards,
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post #298 of 358 Old 05-12-2011, 11:30 AM
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IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!!!

I just like waking up dead threads.

That said, there’s no denying the “cool” mystique of a gaggle of sliders...

Not to take away from the uber kewl mind candy of a ginormous flourescent display on yet another of my old BSRs. I've got an 4000XR that I'll probably hook up passive just for the real time display while I'm listening to music. It's a good unit, but only 12 band, so it tends to fall woefully short when trying to voice a "challenged" room. I've also got a BSR spacial enhancer that does that neat "bloom from the middle" flourescent display - also running passive. Goes nice with the 600 watts of photo floods and chauvet led bars. Ya ... I like lights.

As to what does what better, audio is in the ear of the beholder. I like the idea of an auto tune capability, and really ... TRTA is just that ... other than it requires me to manually transfer the curve to the eq. Being able to tweak the IO for an accurate baseline is a definite plus, and I really like the option to add a "room curve". And yes, there is apparently a bit of a learning curve also, but that's part of the fun. Even then, I expect what is sonically PERFECT will fall short in the real world. My version of it anyway.

PS - in my version, post processing is almost an obsession. Audio purists tend to cring in horror and reach for their talismans against evil when they see what I'm running here ... I seldom listen to anything as the artist originally intended, and consider that a good thing. What's a bit of DBX, EQ, SQ, QS, pro logic, sonic holography and sub synth amongst friends??



if you have downstream amps with balanced inputs you’d have balanced outputs from the EQ, despite using an unbalanced input signal

I'm completely imbalanced here, but I expect you've figured that out by now ...

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #299 of 358 Old 06-17-2011, 01:13 AM
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This question may of been answered already, but I haven't seen it in a very clear manner, so I'm sorry if this is a repeat.

I have an Audix TM1, so I know my mic's response is very flat. I want to use this to EQ a room, but I wish to use the existing equipment's pink noise, instead of the noise from TrueRTA. I did some quick tests, and it seems to be reading levels much lower than it should. (Low SPL's for sounds that I know are much higher.)

I know the system calibration method, where you loop line in and line out, but that is only if you're going to be using TrueRTA's noise, correct?

How do I calibrate correct SPL if I'm only using the line in, and external pink noise? (I don't own an actual SPL meter right now, so I can't go that route, besides an app on my phone.)

Thanks!!
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post #300 of 358 Old 06-17-2011, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Strube View Post

This question may of been answered already, but I haven't seen it in a very clear manner, so I'm sorry if this is a repeat.

I have an Audix TM1, so I know my mic's response is very flat. I want to use this to EQ a room, but I wish to use the existing equipment's pink noise, instead of the noise from TrueRTA. I did some quick tests, and it seems to be reading levels much lower than it should. (Low SPL's for sounds that I know are much higher.)

I know the system calibration method, where you loop line in and line out, but that is only if you're going to be using TrueRTA's noise, correct?

How do I calibrate correct SPL if I'm only using the line in, and external pink noise? (I don't own an actual SPL meter right now, so I can't go that route, besides an app on my phone.)

Thanks!!

Tuirn up the gain on the microphone?
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