TrueRTA-for-dummies - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 358 Old 01-25-2012, 01:40 PM
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post #332 of 358 Old 01-25-2012, 01:40 PM
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Ok , here is the image. Sorry it took so long :O


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/truerta.jpg/
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post #333 of 358 Old 04-12-2012, 10:30 AM
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Can you explain additionally how to calibrate computor and room background noise in TrueRTA?

And what is apsolute SPL?

Thanks!
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post #334 of 358 Old 07-29-2012, 08:30 AM
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Is there a way by which I can use TrueRTA to measure loudspeaker impedance or do I have to instrument that and use different software?
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post #335 of 358 Old 09-09-2012, 12:27 AM
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So need some help.

Currently running the trueRTA 1/24 octave version with a laptop with an Art USB Preamp and the Behringer mic. I tried to measure my subwoofer but was getting a large narrow peak around 60hz. In the attached picture the lower trace is with everything connected, but no signal going to the amp. The upper one is pink noise running through the sub-amp.

What can I do to get rid of the peak?

noinput.png

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post #336 of 358 Old 09-09-2012, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warwick View Post

So need some help.
Currently running the trueRTA 1/24 octave version with a laptop with an Art USB Preamp and the Behringer mic. I tried to measure my subwoofer but was getting a large narrow peak around 60hz. In the attached picture the lower trace is with everything connected, but no signal going to the amp. The upper one is pink noise running through the sub-amp.
What can I do to get rid of the peak?

Spikes at the power line frequency and integer multiples of it are heard from the speaker as hum.

Remove power from the subwoofer. Do the spikes go away?

If they don't, then the humming is coming from somewhere else, either the heating/cooling system or some other component or appliance near by.
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post #337 of 358 Old 09-09-2012, 05:10 AM
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It could be pickup of hum from your cables (mike cicuit all the way to PC input).

Also, watch out for things running in the background like a refrigerator.

Power down everything and measure background noise.
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post #338 of 358 Old 09-09-2012, 01:46 PM
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Ya ... you can usually trace 50-60hz hum to AC line interference. If it's just one component, you can get inline filters that just plug in between your power cord and the equipment's socket.



An outboard line filter would be the better way to go. Tripp Lite makes some nice ones that not only filter the line, but block any noise between components.



** Could also be a bad interconnect. I picked up a helluva hummm recently and traced it back to a bad coaxial connection between my HTPC and DAC. Replaced that and black is as they say once again black ...

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #339 of 358 Old 09-09-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSTRADIMWIT View Post

Ya ... you can usually trace 50-60hz hum to AC line interference. If it's just one component, you can get inline filters that just plug in between your power cord and the equipment's socket.

An outboard line filter would be the better way to go. Tripp Lite makes some nice ones that not only filter the line, but block any noise between components.

** Could also be a bad interconnect. I picked up a helluva hummm recently and traced it back to a bad coaxial connection between my HTPC and DAC. Replaced that and black is as they say once again black ...

None of the noise filters above will do anything at all about 60 and 180 Hz noise in a system. They are designed to absorb noise at far higher frequencies.

Look at it this way - 60 Hz is the power line itself. Anything that fileters it out effectively eliminates the source of power. It is like pulling the plug!

The source of 180 noise on a power line is the power line itself and nonlinearities in other loads on your power line including transformers, florescent light ballasts, and motors.

The advice about a bad interconnect has a lot more traction.

The one thing that is missing from the graphs is a reference level. If the reference level is similar to that of music playing at normal levels, the graph would be problematical. If the reference level were no music and the volume turned up all the way, it is lot less of a concern.
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post #340 of 358 Old 02-15-2013, 03:06 PM
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OK - got bored here, so ... been playing around with the "system two" hardware at 1/3 octave. Taking five samples with the chirp and averaging them. Seems to be enough as those are fairly consistent.

Problem being - I have to shift up 35db in order to center the readings at 0 as suggested in the FAQ. Seems a bit much, but if I pump the speakers any harder I get a nasty feedback loop that leaves me racing for the off switch on the amp. 400 watts per channel can kill at point blank range! I've played around with both system levels and the input level on the Behringer mixer and it still tops out around the same before I start to get a background howl that I know is just gonna be bad news unless I cut it a bit. Not much of a chirp at those levels, so I guess the question is, how much is enough?

Anyway - here's the averaged and shifted results for each channel:

RTA-FEB2013-LEFT.jpg

RTA-FEB2013-RIGHT.jpg

The results from transfering the averaged curves - one per channel - from the exported text file directly to my 31 band eq don't seem all that bad - just wondering if they could be better. Oh, and feel free to comment on any setup issues where I've screwed up ... All by the book, assUming I wasn't reading it upside down.

Oh. I do get a humongous peak at 20kHz, but I assUme that's the chirp ringing a bit at the top. Like I said, I'm pushing the volume as much as I can get away with ...

PS ... I'm working with the room from hell ... an 8x8 cube, which explains the peak at the bottom. It's open at the back with an archway to a 12x16 room behind it, so the music's got plenty room to breathe, but I still get the nastiness reflecting around the speakers. Just playing around now, but the grand plan is to use a parametric eq to attack the big lumps, then take another go at it with tRTA. Should smooth things out a bunch, and transfer those results to the 31 band graphic eq. Once I'm getting good results there, maybe take one more run with both channels to see if there's anything going on there.

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #341 of 358 Old 06-26-2013, 09:32 AM
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Does anybody know what the specific differences are between TrueRTA "Parts Express version" vs TrueRTA "True Audio version"?

Although they are the same price, the Parts Express version currently does not allow for updates to the current versions (not the levels .... just the current version) and their version update download page is many revision older than True Audio's download page.

Does anyone know of any other differences??
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post #342 of 358 Old 07-02-2013, 07:12 PM
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Great thread but I can't get the links to the website for the pics of the hookup to load.
How would do you hook up the system using the Tascam microphone mixer?
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post #343 of 358 Old 08-20-2013, 01:05 PM
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I am new to all of this and need help with TrueRTA.

In the first post on TrueRTA-for-dummies, it talks about calibrating my sound card. This is what I am working with:

HP Pavilion G7 Notebook w/ SRS Premium Sound.

-Under "Sound, Video and Game Controllers" 1) IDT High Definition Audio CODEC and 2) Intel(r) Display Audio are listed

-Under "System Devices" it lists 1) High Definition Audio Controller by Microsoft

Other hardware:

- Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone (I also have the calibration file from Dayton)

- Nady SMPS-1X phantom power supply

- Radio Shack Digital Sound Level Meter (I have used this along with the THX Optimizer found on the "Terminator 2" Blu-ray to do an initial level setup in my Yamaha RX-V2095 AV Receiver

- XLR-XLR cable to connect mike to phantom PS
- XLR-USB cable to connect phantom PS to notebook
- 1/8" stereo headphone to RCAs to connect notebook to Yamaha RX-V2095 AV Receiver
- 1/8" stereo to 1/8" stereo cable to connect headphone OUT to mike IN on notebook which I think I need to calibrate the "sound card" in the notebook

I am wanting to use TrueRTA to calibrate my subwoofer (SVS PB13-Ultra) as described at the following link, http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/how-diy-audio-measurement?page=0,0, and anything else I can in my HTS. The sub has •Two (2) digital PEQs with adjustable frequency, cut/boost, and Q values, and •Room gain compensation control with adjustable frequency and slope.

THE PROBLEM:

I don't see the options mentioned in the first post regarding "2. Calibration". I tried to calibrate as best I could tell but all I got was a solid Blue screen where I was expecting a line graph of some sort mentioned in the post. And since the images will not display in the post, I am truly confused.

Please help. Any advice and direction is appreciated.

End War, VOTE PEACE
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post #344 of 358 Old 08-20-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itzatta View Post

I don't see the options mentioned in the first post regarding "2. Calibration". I tried to calibrate as best I could tell but all I got was a solid Blue screen where I was expecting a line graph of some sort mentioned in the post. And since the images will not display in the post, I am truly confused.

Please help. Any advice and direction is appreciated.

Don't worry too much about calibrating for a start. Just get up and running with it and start measuring your room. Those large peaks and dips will show up and be obvious regardless.

I put 'Speed Tradeoff' at 20 Hz (slow), 'Averages' at 16, toggle the bar graph icon for the line graph instead. Then adjust top and bottom dB levels to put the line graph near the middle of the screen.
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post #345 of 358 Old 08-31-2013, 03:44 PM
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hey guys I just picked up a laptop that only has one jack for a mic/headphones. How can I loop from just one plug to calibrate the sound card?
Thx
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post #346 of 358 Old 09-05-2013, 10:38 AM
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Now that I've gathered you "like minded geniuses" together, I would like your opinion. Back in the day I acquired an Audio Control SA 3052 1/3 octave, 30 channel, spectrum analyzer. Initially used it for car audio. With high quality mic it retailed for around $3000. I'll soon be receiving an Onkyo TX-NR929 for my Home Theater which has, among other things, Audyssey XT32.
Does an analyzer like this have any relevance today?

Patrick
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post #347 of 358 Old 09-05-2013, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

Back in the day I acquired an Audio Control SA 3052 1/3 octave, 30 channel, spectrum analyzer. Initially used it for car audio. With high quality mic it retailed for around $3000. I'll soon be receiving an Onkyo TX-NR929 for my Home Theater which has, among other things, Audyssey XT32.
Does an analyzer like this have any relevance today?

Yes a real time analyzer is still beneficial even with automated room correction available in AVRs. Even Audyssey XT32 isn't the be all and end all and can have different results run from run and it still pays to check with your own room measurements.

However a $3000 analyzer that only does 1/3 octave is very obsolete. For under $100 you can get 1/24 octave resolution with downloadable programmes like TrueRTA and you can use the same mic that comes with your AVR. If you have a computer you are good to go without too much effort and expense involved.
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post #348 of 358 Old 09-05-2013, 10:28 PM
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I have a $3 bottle of Johnson's Pledge to keep the dust off of it.

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post #349 of 358 Old 09-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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Do you guys know, if any additional calibration is needed if I use UMM-6 mic, besides loading calibration file from daytonaudio site? If yes, how exactly the calibration loop would look like? I am running TrueRTA on laptop.
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post #350 of 358 Old 09-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedricthecat View Post

Do you guys know, if any additional calibration is needed if I use UMM-6 mic, besides loading calibration file from daytonaudio site? If yes, how exactly the calibration loop would look like? I am running TrueRTA on laptop.

There is a soundcard calibration test that can be run. You need to connect audio out to audio in. Something like a 3.5 male to 3.5 male stereo plug.
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post #351 of 358 Old 09-09-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

There is a soundcard calibration test that can be run. You need to connect audio out to audio in. Something like a 3.5 male to 3.5 male stereo plug.

But UMM-6 is USB mic. Soundcard is not even involved. Even if I did not have soundcard, USB microphone would still work. So, what is the point of calibrating the soundcard?

The reason I ask: I tried Dayton's EMM-6 mic (i.e. non-USB mic) with "MXL MICMATEC XLR To USB Preamp for Condenser Microphones" (without any calibration) and tried Dayton's UMM-6 using Dayton's calibration file. TrueRTA shows vastly different data for the ambient noise, to the scale of 20 dB difference across entire frequency range (something like 25 dB using UMM-6 vs 45 dB EMM-6 with pre-amp). Does pre-amp adds too much gain? or there is something wrong with UMM-6 mic? My goal is to measure absolute values of sound pressure levels at various frequencies for ambient noise, so that I can say something along the lines "at frequency X, the sound pressure level right here is Y dB"

Thank you!
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post #352 of 358 Old 09-23-2013, 03:16 PM
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I'm trying to calibrate my sound card but all the photos in the the first post are gone. I don't know if I'm getting the right results or not. Hopefully, someone can take a look at this graph and tell me if this is what I would expect. I ran the card calibration procedure and got a flat line. Then I loaded the mic calibration file for the Behringer ECM8000 and I got this graph: Is this what I should expect or have I done something wrong? Thanks for your help. Jim
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post #353 of 358 Old 09-24-2013, 01:15 PM
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The first pic is the frequency response curve I got on my Raven 1 tweeter with the Behringer shotgun mic 1 inch from the center of the driver. I get a dip at 8k. This goes away when I take a measurement at 112 inches. The second pic is the same at 112".The speaker is an MTM using 2 focal 5.25" in a ported box. It's crossed over at about 3.5k. My room is approximately 12'X20' with glass along one wall and wood floors. Any idea why I'm getting that dip?
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post #354 of 358 Old 10-08-2013, 07:01 PM
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Hi everybody

Will small usb mixers with phantom power work without need for another soundcard?   Things  like Behringer XENYX 302 USB  or ART USBMix ?

Will I be able to calibrate (create loop ) wit it?

I already have not calibrated  ECM-8000 mic and I want something small and bus powered for TRUE RTA setup. I dont want soundcard with phantom as I don't have any other use for it ,and small mixer might come handy sometimes.

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post #355 of 358 Old 10-10-2013, 11:47 AM
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Near Field Speaker Measurements are useful to minimize interference from room reflections, but are ONLY valid when 1) the speaker is operating EXCLUSIVELY in a coherent Piston Mode, 2) the Mic probe is located much less than a wavelength away from the speaker (to minimize diffraction and standing wave effects caused by to the Speaker Baffle and 3) the angle blocked by the microphone probe is SMALL to minimize reflections from the probe bouncing off the speaker and BACK into the Mic, thereby degrading the measurements. NONE of these conditions is true in your case.

Standard test distance for speakers is 1-meter...preferably in an Anechoic Chamber to eliminate room mode interference....unfortunately neither of these eliminates Speaker Baffle effects....which is why some speaker driver manufacturers like to test JUST the driver in an "Infinite" (i.e. VERY large) Baffle. [Which is yet another long story worthy of further research....and don't forget to also explore BI-DIRECTIONAL Speakers, which until (ten?) years ago were the ONLY type granted THX Certification.]

Note that 8000 Hz has a wavelength of 1.695-in (give or take a room temperature correction)...which means you have a half-wavelength standing wave of 0.85-in, maximizing the interference effect...and I suspect 0.85-in is closer to the ACTUAL Mic to Diaphram distance:
http://www.mcsquared.com/wavelength.htm
Also note that a 1-in Tweeter would support a half-wavelength standing wave (NOT the only mode) as low as 6800 Hz.....

BTW: Near Field Microphones are commonly used to monitor the BASS speaker where BOTH conditions are maintained, such as the Microphones you can see draped over the front of Guitar Speakers....esp. Bass Guitars, thereby capturing an accurate replica of their true sound with minimal interference from room mode reflections and "noise" from other instruments. Note that a typical 1-in Diameter Tweeter is ESTIMATED to maintain Piston Mode up to about 4.3 kHz (actual performance heavily depends on construction materials and techniques):
http://www.mh-audio.nl/Nearfield.asp

When a speaker no longer operates in Piston Mode, the Diaphragm can be observed to move in DIFFERENT directions across it's surface. Lasers and Strobe Lights can be used to observe this phenomena as the frequency of operation exceeds the upper limit, causing standing waves and/or the speaker is overdriven from linearity. Here are some examples:
http://www.vibroacoustics.co.uk/audio/fsacbens.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI6S5CS-6JI [Water used to visualize standing waves]
http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/sound-lab/tools-of-the-trade-laser-measurements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXNQIU [Hilarious example of using Cone Breakup to excite Cornstarch Monsters]

Although probably NOT your current problem, this is what Cone Breakup looks like visually....and the resultant very ragged freq response curves that varies quite a bit in Azimuthal Response:
http://www.mh-audio.nl/Nearfield.asp
http://us.infinitysystems.com/Infinity-cmmd.html [Keep clicking the moving arrows until you see "Click here".]
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3591/4558838322_2804e7db3e_z.jpg [Mid-Range Speaker at various Azimuth Angles]
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post #356 of 358 Old 01-03-2014, 12:17 PM
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Hello,

 

A stupid question from a new TrueRTA user...
Today I have downloaded TrueRTA, because my intention was to use it for frequency response plots.

Unfortunately, the "Quick sweep" button remains gray.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a limitation in the 'free' version?

Just curious...

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post #357 of 358 Old 01-06-2014, 09:30 AM
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Well, if it doesn't work and nobody can provide the answer, then simply delete it!

So I did...

Now I am using RoomEqWizard. With this application I can do sweeped frequency/amplitude plots.

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post #358 of 358 Old 08-24-2014, 10:27 AM
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TrueRTA w/HDMI output

I have TrueRTA + ECM8000 + XENYX 302 USB setup on my laptop that provides HDMI output that I want to connect to AVRs for speaker setup/testing.

I'm using USB input through the 302+ECM8000 and HDMI output for sw tone generation. I've configured a Win7 notebook with a mic recording level of '1' and 2-channel input as per the TrueRTA setup instructions. I've also set the gain of the 302 to minimum (+10) and the volume for the mic to max - the high/low/pan sliders left at 0. The resulting graphs seem a little low (dB-wise), but appear quite usable.

Since I'm not using an analog loop-back to perform the initial level setup, I'm wondering about the best way to verify my setup - everything seems to be working fine in terms of the mic picking up sound and the HDMI output providing tone as needed. Could a SPL measurement (using CEL-254 SPL meter) at the same location as the ECM8000 provide a basic level check/setup?

Any assistance or suggestions is much appreciated.
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