5.1 analog out cables vs. optical audio out - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 06-17-2006, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an older Sony DVD player that has 5.1 analog out and optical/digital out. My Marantz SR4500 can accept both, but my question is which will deliver the better signal? I would think that the digital would be better, but splitting the signal to 5.1 at the source sounds like it would provide more detail. I don't have the extra optical cable at the moment so that is why I am asking. Also, am I right to think that the digital out and optical out are the same quality?
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post #2 of 40 Old 06-17-2006, 10:24 AM
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I'm going to try and break this down from my limited knowledge. Anybody, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I believe:

1) Analog (White/Red) connections will not provide DD surround sound

2) Digital Audio Coaxial cables provide full DD sound.

3) Optical Digital provides full DD sound, converting the signal to light to pass through the optic cable then being reconverted.

The best two without a doubt are numbers 2 and 3. Trying to split what sounds better out of 2 and 3 is near on impossible. To me they sound the same, and provide the best audioo.

Therefore, in your case it seems like analog (1) vs digital (3). Without any hesitation if that is the case you want to go for 3 - the Optical digital cable.
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post #3 of 40 Old 06-17-2006, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Phil, but keep in mind my question was about 5.1 analog (not red/white, but 6 analog lines going to the receiver). I have heard in that past that analog done properly is better than digital, and my question is whether the 5.1 analog is considered one of those times when analog is done better than digital.

If I decided to use the Digital Coax, can I use a regular RCA cord or is it a special digital cord that just looks like an RCA cord?
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post #4 of 40 Old 06-17-2006, 10:59 AM
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optical/coax... no difference (99.9% of the time)

analog 5.1 vs. optical/coax. depends on which device has better DAC's.
try both and use what sounds best to you.

Caveat being... you must use analog for hi-rez audio (SACD/DVD-A).

For the digital "RCA cord"... use yellow video cable (75 Ohm).
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post #5 of 40 Old 06-17-2006, 11:02 AM
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I believe the only advantage of the optical would be to carry the signal over longer distances with minimal Bit Error Rate. Correct?
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post #6 of 40 Old 06-17-2006, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

optical/coax... no difference (99.9% of the time)

analog 5.1 vs. optical/coax. depends on which device has better DAC's.
try both and use what sounds best to you.

Caveat being... you must use analog for hi-rez audio (SACD/DVD-A).

For the digital "RCA cord"... use yellow video cable (75 Ohm).


Thanks for the info!
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post #7 of 40 Old 07-14-2006, 12:40 PM
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Does this mean that optical supports 5.1?
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post #8 of 40 Old 07-14-2006, 12:41 PM
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Yes.... but not "hi-resolution" audio from DVD-A/SACD.
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post #9 of 40 Old 07-14-2006, 12:46 PM
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[quote=Ratman]analog 5.1 vs. optical/coax. depends on which device has better DAC's.try both and use what sounds best to you.QUOTE]

Or possibly better bass management and time alignment.

I much prefer the sound of the 5. 1 analog outs from my Denon 3910, versus the same soundtrack sent to my NAD 762 via coax or optical.

Trying both is the best advice here, but do make sure that the two sources are level matched or it will skew your perception of which is better.

Brian
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post #10 of 40 Old 07-14-2006, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Caveat being... you must use analog for hi-rez audio (SACD/DVD-A).

On the vast majority* of SACD/DVD-A players, yes. On the rest, there is either an ilink (Firewire) out, or a brand-specific proprietary digital link out, that lets you pass those two high-rez formats digitally to a receiver with the matching input. This has the arguably substantial advantage of allowing all bass management, time alignment, room correction etc to be done by the receiver, identically for all formats.

I've also found that some DVD-A discs allow passage of the stereo tracks (or the downmix of the multchannel tracks) digitally via normal optical or coax connections (downsampled to 48 kHz if the original is at a higher sample rate than that).


(* not that this was ever a large number of players in the first place...R.I.P. , hi-rez)
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post #11 of 40 Old 07-14-2006, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

On the rest, there is either an ilink (Firewire) out, or a brand-specific proprietary digital link out, that lets you pass those two high-rez formats digitally to a receiver with the matching input.

You are correct...
Let's count the compatible A/V receivers and players that accomplish that on one hand.
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post #12 of 40 Old 05-24-2007, 06:44 AM
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I just hooked up my new Sony BDP S1 Blu Ray player and have what may be a basic question.

I am assuming using the 5.1 analog out will provide the best sound so...if I have just three Def Tech tower speakers and ACI Maestro sub (this means I have FR, LR, SW and Center) is it prudent to just hook up analog out cables from those Sony outputs to the four corresponding external analog inputs of my Denon 3802 receiver? I assume this will provide quality output without the SR and SL speaker hookups.

Also...Would the receiver do any kind of extra decoding if I hookup the Sony SR and SL analog outs to the 3802 even though it recognizes I do not have those speakers? Currently I am listening with the Sony coaxial out to my receiver and everything of course sounds fine.

Give me your thoughts. Just trying to get the best out of Blu Ray until I add my surround speakers. I was HD DVD exclusive until today.
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post #13 of 40 Old 05-24-2007, 10:51 AM
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Interesting question.

My first reaction is that you need to hook up all the cables so the processor can do the downmix according to your speaker count/configuration.

Might depend though, on whether or not the player will downmix according to the speaker configuration/settings in it.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #14 of 40 Old 05-24-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Interesting question.

My first reaction is that you need to hook up all the cables so the processor can do the downmix according to your speaker count/configuration.

Might depend though, on whether or not the player will downmix according to the speaker configuration/settings in it.

So maybe I should connect all six connections. Would you assume that this analog connection would be better SQ since my 3802 cannot decode all the new the Blu Ray sound parameters via coaxial or optical? Even though I only have LR, FR, C and SW.
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post #15 of 40 Old 05-24-2007, 04:20 PM
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The problem with going from digital to analog in the player is that your receiver likely re-digitizes the signal to do bass management, tone control, etc, and then sends the signal through its own DACs (unless it's a cheapie or very expensive all analog receiver).
Thus, you are almost always better using a digital transport to the receiver.

Note that the PS/3 is a SACD player, and has HDMI out, which can play high-def digital audio to your receiver. So it's not quite dead just yet :-)
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post #16 of 40 Old 05-24-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwatte View Post

The problem with going from digital to analog in the player is that your receiver likely re-digitizes the signal to do bass management, tone control, etc, and then sends the signal through its own DACs (unless it's a cheapie or very expensive all analog receiver).
Thus, you are almost always better using a digital transport to the receiver.

Most (but not all) receivers do not allow any bass or time management of their analog multichannel inputs. So, most receivers will simply amplify the analog multichannel input that they're sent from a 5.1 analog connected player.

In the case of a receiver that does allow bass and/or time management of it's multichannel analog inputs, NOT using these capabilities with a player connected via a 5.1 analog connection would be desirable if one wanted to avoid another analog-digital-analog conversion through the receiver's DACs.

However, several owners of receivers that do allow bass and/or time management of the multichannel analog inputs have reported here at AVS that they perceived very little, if any, degradation in signal when passing the signal through both the player's DACs and then the receiver's DACs.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
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post #17 of 40 Old 05-24-2007, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolstrategist View Post

So maybe I should connect all six connections. Would you assume that this analog connection would be better SQ since my 3802 cannot decode all the new the Blu Ray sound parameters via coaxial or optical? Even though I only have LR, FR, C and SW.


No, I would not necessarily assume that.

You have several options on how to connect and configure your system. The only way to know for sure is to try them all for yourself.

Some possibilites are:

1. Analog out from player, player handling speaker config/bass management
2. Analog out from player, receiver handling speaker config/bass management*
3. Digital (optical or coaxial) out from player, receiver handling speaker config/bass management

*As previous poster mentioned, not all receivers can do full bass management/speaker config on multichannel analog inputs.

How many (analog signal) cables are necessary from your player to your receiver is, afaik, determined by where the speaker configuration/bass management is performed.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #18 of 40 Old 01-14-2008, 07:27 AM
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I just recently bought a Sony Blue Ray and was having problems with getting the digital connection to work to my Sony DE985. Doing some searches comparing 5.1 analog or digital, this was in my google result, just registered.

I found this on Sony sight:

Quote:


The audio drops out when playing a Blu-ray Disc® movie using a digital (optical or coaxial) connection for sound.


This Audio/Video (A/V) receiver was manufactured prior to the introduction of Blu-ray Disc® (BD) technology. The digital (optical and coaxial) connection does not support the Dolby® Digital signal from a BD movie; this symptom is not a malfunction. Alternatively, an analog connection should be used to connect your BD player to the A/V receiver in order to hear the sound.

NOTE: There are no plans at this time to update the A/V receiver to support the Dolby Digital signal from BD movies.

Thought I'd share it.
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post #19 of 40 Old 01-17-2008, 03:29 PM
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I'm currently using the optical audio out on my Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player. However, I'd like to also connect the 5.1 audio out to my 5.1 multichannel input on my receiver (Sony STR-DE897) so I can take advantage of the uncompressed 5.1 PCM audio options on some Blu-rays.

Anybody know what the best cables are for 5.1 analog multichannel? Do I really need to spend $100 on one of those Monster SACD/DVD-Audio bundles? Or can I just run three pairs of RCA audio cables?
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post #20 of 40 Old 01-17-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggonics View Post

Anybody know what the best cables are for 5.1 analog multichannel? Do I really need to spend $100 on one of those Monster SACD/DVD-Audio bundles? Or can I just run three pairs of RCA audio cables?

3 pairs of standard audio RCAs will work just fine. So will 2 pairs of component video cables.

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post #21 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 11:38 AM
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I apologize if resurrecting old threads is not the preferred behavior on avsforum.com. I've been lurking for a few days and saw posters mention previous threads, suggesting that using old threads is the preferred behavior.

In any case, my question is whether or not what was said in this thread back in 2008 still holds true today. I'm in the midst of building a home theater and believe I'll be purchasing a Blue-Ray player to connect to a Denon AVR-3310 receiver, though I'm not yet sure which model

I don't presently own any SACDs and don't know if I will buy any. I do have one or two DVD-A discs and so I'm looking for clarification that the instructions are still to connect all 6 (or 8) channels via analog RCAs to my receiver rather than use either digital optical or digital coax.

I'm a musician who's recorded in studios so presumably I've got better than average ears.

Thanks in advance for any help that can be provided.

-Jeff
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post #22 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 12:01 PM
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I may have found an answer to my question on page 324 of the "OFFICIAL Help Me Choose a Player thread" (which I'd link to, but I can't since I have just two posts at the moment).

-Jeff
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post #23 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 12:43 PM
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HDMI is the way to go rather than RCA, if your player and AVR are capable. HDMI can pass multichannel PCM audio (DVD-A and Blu-Ray) digitally and thus allows you to exploit the 'room correction' and speaker/bass management settings of your AVR. The signal stays entirely in the digital domain until final D/A conversion for output from the AVR to loudspeakers.
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post #24 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

HDMI is the way to go rather than RCA, if your AVR is capable. HDMI can pass multichannel PCM audio (DVD-A and Blu-Ray) digitally and thus allows you to exploit the 'room correction' and speaker/bass management settings of your AVR. The signal stays entirely in the digital domain until final D/A conversion for output from the AVR to loudspeakers.

Huh, alright. I was aware that HDMI carried audio, but in searching the forum I came across a thread that said something to the effect of HDMI carrying only two channels of audio.

My AVR is capable (Denon AVR-3310).

Thanks for your help krabapple.
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post #25 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 01:34 PM
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Modern DVD players typically offer HDMI 1.0 or higher , which pass multichannel PCM audio output in multiple formats. See this chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison


Many (not all) computer soundcard implementations of HDMI out will only carry 2 PCM audio channels, for reasons best known to their manufacturers. As of late 2009 when I was last laptop-shopping, for example, many offered HDMI out, but none offered *multichannel PCM* HDMI out. However these will still pass multichannel DTS and Dolby Digital lossy bitstreams.
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post #26 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnathan View Post

I'm looking for clarification that the instructions are still to connect all 6 (or 8) channels via analog RCAs to my receiver rather than use either digital optical or digital coax.

My AVR is capable (Denon AVR-3310).

A digital coax or optical cable will only pass the older Dolby Digital & DTS formats.

As a musician you will no doubt appreciate the new uncompressed audio formats such as Dolby True HD & DTS-MA, which are only available to you digitally if you are connected via HDMI.

Of course it's still possible to connect 6 or 8 analog cables to send the uncompressed signal to your processor but you will no doubt find it much more convienent to just connect a single HDMI cable and be done with it.

TURN IT UP!
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post #27 of 40 Old 09-20-2010, 02:32 PM
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Thanks for the help bigbrother52 and krabapple. It will be significantly more convenient to connect an HDMI cable and be done with it.

Square waves ftw.

-Jeff
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post #28 of 40 Old 09-21-2010, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

A digital coax or optical cable will only pass the older Dolby Digital & DTS formats.

As a musician you will no doubt appreciate the new uncompressed audio formats such as Dolby True HD & DTS-MA, which are only available to you digitally if you are connected via HDMI.

Of course it's still possible to connect 6 or 8 analog cables to send the uncompressed signal to your processor but you will no doubt find it much more convienent to just connect a single HDMI cable and be done with it.

While I agree that HDMI and therefore the uncompressed audio that comes with it is the way to go, saying that he will appreciate it because he is a musician is a little questionable.

Do you believe that as a rule musicians have better hearing? Would that also include Pete Townsend?

The benefits of lossless over HBR lossy are neglegible to most people, myself included. As good as it is, there will not be some soul stirring revelation from listening to lossless.
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post #29 of 40 Old 09-21-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie View Post

While I agree that HDMI and therefore the uncompressed audio that comes with it is the way to go, saying that he will appreciate it because he is a musician is a little questionable.

Do you believe that as a rule musicians have better hearing? Would that also include Pete Townsend?

The benefits of lossless over HBR lossy are neglegible to most people, myself included. As good as it is, there will not be some soul stirring revelation from listening to lossless.

I think we're in agreement in that comparing X vs. Y, most people really can't hear a difference. The difference between a musician and non-musician is perhaps that the musician, in knowing how instruments are played or how to sing, understands the mechanics of a song. By this rationale, I think musicians are more likely to hear the individual components of a song.

In bringing up Pete Townshend you touch on two things. First, he has tinnitus which doesn't necessarily mean that he has any hearing loss. I'm neither an audiologist nor an Otolaryngologist, but I'm willing to concede that given his musicianship and experience as a producer that Townshend hears more than I do in music and very likely 99% of the listening public.

Second, the early recordings by The Who were made on what... 4 and 8 track recorders at best? Without the benefit of even being stereo recordings. In support of your final statement above, I think that recording musicians are keenly aware that there's a point of diminishing returns in home stereos (and home theater) in that you can't reproduce what wasn't there to begin with. In my ever so humble opinion, that diminishing point is using better playback equipment than the equipment used to make the initial recording.

-Jeff
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post #30 of 40 Old 09-21-2010, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnathan View Post

First, he has tinnitus which doesn't necessarily mean that he has any hearing loss.

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/tinnitus/TIN_loss.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus
http://www.treattinnitusnow.com/tinn...aring-loss.php
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