Another little cable comparision - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 458 Old 10-27-2006, 10:15 AM
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Wongmb doesn't seem to realize that binaural recordings are *meant* to be listened to on headphones for best effect. So *of course* they will sound 'more magic' on headphones.
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post #362 of 458 Old 10-27-2006, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
Wongmb doesn't seem to realize that binaural recordings are *meant* to be listened to on headphones for best effect. So *of course* they will sound 'more magic' on headphones.
Do you have any binaural recording and have you compared it between speaker and amp combo vs headphone ? OR are you doing the textbook talk again that "it meant to sound more magic".
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post #363 of 458 Old 10-27-2006, 12:31 PM
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Have you critically listened to a binaural recording with a good set of headphones? No...

Or... should we accept that all of these "magic cables" make the sound better based on 'your' opinion?
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post #364 of 458 Old 10-27-2006, 12:39 PM
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Gee what a surprise...another nonsequitur 'have you TRIED IT??" response from wongmb to a simple statement of fact: binaural recordings by their very nature are meant to be listened to on headphones to achieve the best effect (substitute 'full effect' if you prefer a nonsubjective term). This doesn't mean they can't sound good on loudspeakers, it means you won't get the full intended effect using them -- I'm assuming the full effect is the 'more magic' you were missing. Because you absolutely were missing it if you listened via loudspeakers.

Do you have a clue as to what binaural recording IS, wongmb?

Apparently not.

For christ's sake, educate yourself once in awhile before posting, won't you? That usually involves some reading, btw...in this case that would have saved you the trouble of 'trying it' using loudspeakers, in the expectation of getting the 'magic'.


Start here:

http://www.binaural.com/binfaq.html
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post #365 of 458 Old 10-27-2006, 12:45 PM
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Here btw is a killer site related to the original topic of this thread: cable sound

http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioM...kracables.html
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post #366 of 458 Old 10-28-2006, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
Gee what a surprise...another nonsequitur 'have you TRIED IT??" response from wongmb to a simple statement of fact: binaural recordings by their very nature are meant to be listened to on headphones to achieve the best effect (substitute 'full effect' if you prefer a nonsubjective term). This doesn't mean they can't sound good on loudspeakers, it means you won't get the full intended effect using them -- I'm assuming the full effect is the 'more magic' you were missing. Because you absolutely were missing it if you listened via loudspeakers.

Do you have a clue as to what binaural recording IS, wongmb?

Apparently not.

For christ's sake, educate yourself once in awhile before posting, won't you? That usually involves some reading, btw...in this case that would have saved you the trouble of 'trying it' using loudspeakers, in the expectation of getting the 'magic'.


Start here:

http://www.binaural.com/binfaq.html
As if you are the only who knows how to do a search on google and read :rolleyes:

The fact is you dont even own a single binaural recording while I do. And yes the disc I own describe how a binaural recording is made. Dont need to google it like yourself.

For christ's sake, dont jump to conclusion yourself once in awhile before posting, won't you, Krab?
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post #367 of 458 Old 10-29-2006, 08:17 AM
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The fact is you dont even own a single binaural recording while I do. And yes the disc I own describe how a binaural recording is made.

In which case your ignorance is inexcusable.

The fact is, you can't experience the full effect of a binaural recording unless you use headphones. Why don't you know that?
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post #368 of 458 Old 10-29-2006, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman
Have you critically listened to a binaural recording with a good set of headphones? No...
Please specify a good set of headphones. I hope you wont recommend something made by Bose.
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post #369 of 458 Old 10-29-2006, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krabapple
In which case your ignorance is inexcusable.

The fact is, you can't experience the full effect of a binaural recording unless you use headphones. Why don't you know that?
Did I ever made a statement claiming binaural recording always sounds better thru speakers than headphone ? Pls quote my post that said that.
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post #370 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
Please specify a good set of headphones. I hope you wont recommend something made by Bose.
Maybe PSAudio makes a 'magic' set. They would be in your expendable budget range... :rolleyes:
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post #371 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ratman
Maybe PSAudio makes a 'magic' set. They would be in your expendable budget range... :rolleyes:
Sure, I will get them to custom make a $10k headphone wired with voodoo cable.

You only live once after all. Rather than arguing whether cable can scientifically make a difference, I just buy it and enjoy it. I will leave argument to the not so fortunate ones. :D
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post #372 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 05:15 AM
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Well, you already said you don't want to own a pair so unless you just want to borrow one from your local dealer, just go to a dollar store and pick up a pair of $1 ones to check out. Some people have used the various playback options on a receiver with decent effect.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #373 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 05:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
Wongmb doesn't seem to realize that binaural recordings are *meant* to be listened to on headphones for best effect. So *of course* they will sound 'more magic' on headphones.
It is obvious that binaural recordings will sound more "spectacular" in terms of imaging on headphones. The many drawbacks of headphones (eg lack of tangible bass, the sense of the sound being "inside your head", etc.) limit the overall enjoyment of them. I would rather trade a portion of the imaging for the generally more pleasant effect of listening to speakers. :cool:
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post #374 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai
Well, you already said you don't want to own a pair so unless you just want to borrow one from your local dealer, just go to a dollar store and pick up a pair of $1 ones to check out. Some people have used the various playback options on a receiver with decent effect.
I have 3 pairs of earbud from my ipod, walkman ,etc. a $300 Sennheiser wireless for TV, plus a $500 wired one that I have put away for years.

I have tried the biaural recording with the wired one and sorry to say I dont enjoy it as much as my 2 channel rig. Like Pulliam mentioned, headphones have their limitations.

The headphones that I have so far, none of them create the 3d soundstage like my speakers.
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post #375 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai
Absolutely true krabapple. The same thing holds true for musicians and conductors. How are you listening to the binaural recordings...speakers or headphones?

DMF...LTNS or have I just not been paying attention?

Now, let's all be like Mike and get some Nike's and Gatorade and listen to our systems in our Hanes.

Good luck getting a response wongmb.
I must have some good luck.

This is the reply from Shunyata:

-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Service [mailto:cservice@shunyata.com]
Sent: 2006/10/26 19:13
To: Wong, Michael
Subject: Re: Shunyata web site, client list link


Hello,


Not sure why you are getting that, but we have checked it from a few different machines and everything seems to be working. If you have any other questions, please let me know.


Matt Reilly
Shunyata Research
5594 NE Minder RD #101
Poulsbo, WA 98370


mattr@shunyata.com
P: 360-297-8960
F: 360-297-8471


Try this link:
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/endo...fessional.html


Guess a link that does not work one day does not mean anything. No need to be cynical all the time.
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post #376 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 06:57 AM
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It hadn't worked for months. Now we can read more advertising...

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #377 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
Did I ever made a statement claiming binaural recording always sounds better thru speakers than headphone ? Pls quote my post that said that.
No, you never made *that* statement...you made one far sillier, about the 'magic' of a binaural recording, that you listened to only on loudspeakers , disappearing when you changed cables.

At which point it was suggested to you that listening on headphones might make more of a difference in 'magic' than a cable swap. Because , you know , binaural recordings are made such that their 'magic' is only fully revealed on headphones. Whether you *'like* that magic is purely a preference.

You know that, right?
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post #378 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
No, you never made *that* statement...you made one far sillier, about the 'magic' of a binaural recording, that you listened to only on loudspeakers , disappearing when you changed cables.

At which point it was suggested to you that listening on headphones might make more of a difference in 'magic' than a cable swap. Because , you know , binaural recordings are made such that their 'magic' is only fully revealed on headphones. Whether you *'like* that magic is purely a preference.

You know that, right?
I was under the impression that the "voodoo cables" post you are citing was intended to be sarcastic. ;)
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post #379 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krabapple
No, you never made *that* statement...you made one far sillier, about the 'magic' of a binaural recording, that you listened to only on loudspeakers , disappearing when you changed cables.

At which point it was suggested to you that listening on headphones might make more of a difference in 'magic' than a cable swap. Because , you know , binaural recordings are made such that their 'magic' is only fully revealed on headphones. Whether you *'like* that magic is purely a preference.

You know that, right?
Now that Shunyata's website link about their pro-audio endorser is up and running, why dont you take the time and sent each one of them email how silly they are to believe in cables ?

Even more importantly, stop listening to any of the recordings those studios made cuz they are all silly and the mightly krab knows better. Imagine how much they are over charging the consumers on the recording to pay for those expensive voodoo cable that you know for sure wont make a damn difference.
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post #380 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 12:18 PM
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There must be something on this earth that you're entirely sure is BS mike.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #381 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 01:00 PM
 
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You should learn to control your anger, wong.
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post #382 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
In the near future, Mikeyc and myself will visit Jakeman and compare his Canare/Belden hookup to exotic cable hookup. Hopefully he will pose his impression no matter what the result is. He is curious/open minded enough to try different cables, rather than show me the DBT result first to support the claim.
Well I've been lurking and keeping up with this thread, and ignoring the flaming that mars it. Given the varying inductance and capacitance characteristics of the various cables I heard at Mike's, there is no question he is getting better sound with several of them. It can't be dismissed with something as trite as moving one's head several inches either way or comb filtering. To ignore the many reports of better sound reproduction throught the use of specific cables seems to fly contrary to the scientific process which we hold dear. Hence my quest to better understand why so many well intentioned audio enthusiasts have achieved improved sound with their gear. The two Mikes have an intuitively better understanding of this phenomena than I do and I urge them to be patient with several posters here.

Next weekend works well for me. Since you came over last spring, I've moved my Totem Shaman speakers into our great room with its 25ft vaulted ceiling, upgraded to a Bryston 14BSST amp, and added a tube Cary slp-98l pre-amp. The interconnects are the DIY ones Tim (HiFiSponge) kindly made for me using Belden/Canare parts which to my ear as well as the two Mikes outperformed the stock BlueJeans cables in terms of more distinct bass and higher resolution mids/highs. The difference can not be explained as a result of faulty construction. I suspect it is related to interaction between the interconnects physical characteristics and the amp/player.

In any event I am looking forward to see if Mike can improve my sound further. :)

John
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post #383 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 01:36 PM
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There's just not enough total capacitance to do any rolling off of the highs unless you use an extraordinarily high capacitance cable. My suggestion would be to see if you can borrow one like an Alpha Goertz which might represent one enormous extreme.
Quote:
To ignore the many reports of better sound reproduction throught the use of specific cables seems to fly contrary to the scientific process which we hold dear.
Hence, we need to consider biases as part of that scientific process. Since you're of the opinion that differences are heard in the bass, that should suggest appropriate musical pieces that people feel are representative. I'll be waiting for some significant tests.

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post #384 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 02:44 PM
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[quote=jakeman] It can't be dismissed with something as trite as moving one's head several inches either way or comb filtering. To ignore the many reports of better sound reproduction throught the use of specific cables seems to fly contrary to the scientific process which we hold dear.
QUOTE]


WHAT???? you hold science as dear, but dismiss and call trite the very real and measured and proven issue of comb filters?
Sorry but what ever spills out of your mouth from here on out is dribble and crap.
You have zero understanding of acoustics.
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post #385 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai
There's just not enough total capacitance to do any rolling off of the highs unless you use an extraordinarily high capacitance cable. My suggestion would be to see if you can borrow one like an Alpha Goertz which might represent one enormous extreme.

Hence, we need to consider biases as part of that scientific process. Since you're of the opinion that differences are heard in the bass, that should suggest appropriate musical pieces that people feel are representative. I'll be waiting for some significant tests.
We discussed these perspectives at length a few threads ago. It's not a question of hearing improved sound, the question is why. When the two Mikes report they are obtaining better sounding bass with Mike's equipment, I believe it having heard it first hand. The closest answer I've been able to discern was from that excellent AES article on cable interaction you graciously provided which pointed to the reactive effect of the preamp, amplifier and the cable.

If you have some favourites lets hear it.

Speco, your posts are not worth dignifying with a response.

John
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post #386 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai
There must be something on this earth that you're entirely sure is BS mike.
Sure there is. For example, most of the offering by Machina dynamica like brilliant pebbles and Timex orange clock are total bs. I dont need to "audition" that to draw a conclusion.

But to claim all cables are voodoo and that every single high end cable users out there are silly is beyond me.

Targus:
My post does not shown any more anger than your usual post.
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post #387 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 04:14 PM
 
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My post does not shown any more anger than your usual post.
Heh...I can see the spittle forming from here ;)
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post #388 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeman
Well I've been lurking and keeping up with this thread, and ignoring the flaming that mars it. Given the varying inductance and capacitance characteristics of the various cables I heard at Mike's, there is no question he is getting better sound with several of them. It can't be dismissed with something as trite as moving one's head several inches either way or comb filtering. To ignore the many reports of better sound reproduction throught the use of specific cables seems to fly contrary to the scientific process which we hold dear. Hence my quest to better understand why so many well intentioned audio enthusiasts have achieved improved sound with their gear. The two Mikes have an intuitively better understanding of this phenomena than I do and I urge them to be patient with several posters here.

Next weekend works well for me. Since you came over last spring, I've moved my Totem Shaman speakers into our great room with its 25ft vaulted ceiling, upgraded to a Bryston 14BSST amp, and added a tube Cary slp-98l pre-amp. The interconnects are the DIY ones Tim (HiFiSponge) kindly made for me using Belden/Canare parts which to my ear as well as the two Mikes outperformed the stock BlueJeans cables in terms of more distinct bass and higher resolution mids/highs. The difference can not be explained as a result of faulty construction. I suspect it is related to interaction between the interconnects physical characteristics and the amp/player.

In any event I am looking forward to see if Mike can improve my sound further. :)
I will email you and Mike tomorrow.

I just got a pair of Shunyata Aries with rca connectors. I will bring that over as well. I already have Aries XLR between amp and pre-amp. Testing out the Aries (rca) between cdp and preamp right now. The Aries may find home and dethrone my Acoustic Zen cable.
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post #389 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeman

Speco, your posts are not worth dignifying with a response.
Why because you were caught being full of ****?
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post #390 of 458 Old 10-30-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
Now that Shunyata's website link about their pro-audio endorser is up and running, why dont you take the time and sent each one of them email how silly they are to believe in cables ?

Well, we still don't know how many 'endorsements' are sincere, and how many are driven by other considerations.

But no doubt some of them are just 'I believe my ears' types--I've seen them on prosound forums... along with other pro-audio folks who set them straight on the problems inherent in 'believing your ears' and cables. How about YOU post your thoughts on prosoundweb forums, and see what pro audio folks have to say? (I've done it.)

I've said it before...sound engineering types do so many things that DO make a sonic difference, that some come to believe that *anything* they think makes a difference, must really make a difference. That;s a logical fallacy.


IT's true some 'reknowned mastering engineers' get a bit testy when you mention stuff like that....or if you start asking them why they endorse hilarious contraptions like this

http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm



Quote:
Even more importantly, stop listening to any of the recordings those studios made cuz they are all silly and the mightly krab knows better. Imagine how much they are over charging the consumers on the recording to pay for those expensive voodoo cable that you know for sure wont make a damn difference.

Oh, snap, you got me! :rolleyes:
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