LFE, subwoofers and interconnects explained - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 777 Old 12-08-2007, 03:24 PM
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Yep, boosting the entire SW channel is not the same as boosting just the LFE part of the SW channel and will make all redirected bass from the other channels 10dB too high. (3x too high).

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post #362 of 777 Old 12-09-2007, 12:19 PM
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With regards to the Onkyo TX-NR1000, TX-NR5000E, Integra DTR-10.5 and Integra Research RDC-7.1, LFE handling seems highly dependant on the firmware used, all four of these models use identical firmware and the same audio processing.

I am using Master version 2.0 which is the newest AFAIK. There is no adjustment for Analogue Multichannel byt LFE levels are identical to SPDIF and ILink when using DD5.1 so I assume it is done correctly. DSD, DVD-A(PCM), AAC, DTS and DD all have seperate settings per input but these are different to the older fimrwares, they are -20DB, -10DB, 0DB and Infinity. 0DB is the default and correct for all DD and DTS sources it seems. I dont have the required test discs for SACD or DVD-A.
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post #363 of 777 Old 12-14-2007, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

Yep, boosting the entire SW channel is not the same as boosting just the LFE part of the SW channel and will make all redirected bass from the other channels 10dB too high. (3x too high).

...but if you set Speakers to small and Sub to "Yes" not "Plus" then only the LFE portion will go to the Sub won't it ?Isn't this the preferred method ?

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post #364 of 777 Old 12-14-2007, 04:44 PM
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Not quite. The "LFE" is content put in the disc's .1 channel, in the mixing studio. If you set speakers to 'Large', only the LFE is output to the subwoofer. Meanwhile, any bass that was mixed to the front left/center/right or surrounds in the studios, stays in those channels and goes to those speakers. But if you set the speakers to 'Small', the LFE plus the bass from the 'small' loudspeakers, is blended together and output to the subwoofer.
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post #365 of 777 Old 12-15-2007, 05:33 PM
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O.K. I read the OP and sort of understand the principles, but I get lost on the specifics. I wonder if one of you who understands this better than I could give me some advice for my new Christmas setup.

Currently I have tired 15 year old Advent Prodegy fronts and a 10 year old Infinity 8" sub, all of which I am replacing with Polk Audio RTi8s and a Polk Audio PSW12.

I have a Yamaha RX-V750 which can control the SW output by db or test tone, plus or minus. It can also control the LFE output from 0db downwards. I have the speakers now set to "small" and the sub setting to "subwoofer only"

Now I have to keep the volume on the sub pretty low, even if I have the sub setting on the receiver to 0db as it gets boomy pretty fast--perhaps because it isn't such a good sub, perhaps because it is downfiring onto a hardwood floor, perhaps both reasons. Setting the test tones to what sounds equal to the front and center speakers is invariably too much bass in general and I have to lower it, whether or the receiver or on the sub.

Anyhow, though I realize it is up to me to determine my final settings, I am a bit confused about where I should start. I have no calubration discs. I judge everthing by what tv or dvd or hd sounds like, whether the bass sounds balanced, overpowering, or lacking.

The new sub is not downfiring, which hopefully is good. The new speakers are much larger, but does that mean I should set them to large?

1. Would setting the subs volume control to about 50% be a good place to start?

2. Should I set the new fronts to large?

3. Should I set the sub setting to "both", allowing the fronts to handled any lows they can? Or should I still keep it on "Sub only"?

4. Should I leave the LFE to 0db and presume that is correct? (all audio is transmitted to the receiver by either toslink or coax from DTV, DVD, and HD DVD) How would I know if that needs separate adjustment?

Just thought it would be nice to know I am headed in the right direction for the new stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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post #366 of 777 Old 12-19-2007, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yampan View Post

..... I have the speakers now set to "small" and the sub setting to "subwoofer only"

Now I have to keep the volume on the sub pretty low, even if I have the sub setting on the receiver to 0db as it gets boomy pretty fast ......

Setting the test tones to what sounds equal to the front and center speakers is invariably too much bass in general and I have to lower it, whether or the receiver or on the sub.

I think the first thing you should do is get a Radio Shack or similar Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter to more accurately set the volume of the sub relative to the main speakers. You can't set the sub volume accurately "by ear". The human ear is much less sensitive to deep bass noise below 80 Hz produced by the sub, than to higher frequency noise produced by the main speakers (when the receiver test tones are run). Therefore, you will set the sub much too loud if you try to set the levels by listening to the test tones.

Place the SPL meter near the listening position and pointing upward. Reading an SPL meter while running the test tones is the best method for setting all the speaker levels.
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post #367 of 777 Old 12-19-2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yampan View Post

O.K. I read the OP and sort of understand the principles, but I get lost on the specifics. I wonder if one of you who understands this better than I could give me some advice for my new Christmas setup.

Currently I have tired 15 year old Advent Prodegy fronts and a 10 year old Infinity 8" sub, all of which I am replacing with Polk Audio RTi8s and a Polk Audio PSW12.

I have a Yamaha RX-V750 which can control the SW output by db or test tone, plus or minus. It can also control the LFE output from 0db downwards. I have the speakers now set to "small" and the sub setting to "subwoofer only"

Now I have to keep the volume on the sub pretty low, even if I have the sub setting on the receiver to 0db as it gets boomy pretty fast--perhaps because it isn't such a good sub, perhaps because it is downfiring onto a hardwood floor, perhaps both reasons. Setting the test tones to what sounds equal to the front and center speakers is invariably too much bass in general and I have to lower it, whether or the receiver or on the sub.

Anyhow, though I realize it is up to me to determine my final settings, I am a bit confused about where I should start. I have no calubration discs. I judge everthing by what tv or dvd or hd sounds like, whether the bass sounds balanced, overpowering, or lacking.

The new sub is not downfiring, which hopefully is good. The new speakers are much larger, but does that mean I should set them to large?

1. Would setting the subs volume control to about 50% be a good place to start?

2. Should I set the new fronts to large?

3. Should I set the sub setting to "both", allowing the fronts to handled any lows they can? Or should I still keep it on "Sub only"?

4. Should I leave the LFE to 0db and presume that is correct? (all audio is transmitted to the receiver by either toslink or coax from DTV, DVD, and HD DVD) How would I know if that needs separate adjustment?

Just thought it would be nice to know I am headed in the right direction for the new stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I went through a similar tweak. See my findings at this link.
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post #368 of 777 Old 12-19-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic icons View Post

I think the first thing you should do is get a Radio Shack or similar Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter

Believe it or not, I have a 30 year old Radio Shack Sound Pressure level around somewhere. It's just been through 5 moves and is hiding somewhere. Problem is, I found out years ago that the SPL doesn't always yield satisfying results even though it theoritically should. Maybe it just me. Thanks for the thought, I should really try to find it just to see what's what.
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post #369 of 777 Old 12-19-2007, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnickersonjr View Post

I went through a similar tweak. See my findings at this link.

Thanks for the reference. In the end, I think the overall level of bass is the easiest to arbitrarily change according to your own personal taste. Whether or not it is "correct", who cares. I was more curious about the relationship between LFE and overall bass. I will study that thread.
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post #370 of 777 Old 12-23-2007, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yampan View Post

Believe it or not, I have a 30 year old Radio Shack Sound Pressure level around somewhere. It's just been through 5 moves and is hiding somewhere. Problem is, I found out years ago that the SPL doesn't always yield satisfying results even though it theoritically should. Maybe it just me. Thanks for the thought, I should really try to find it just to see what's what.

More thoughts on setting the subwoofer level and the nature of hearing ... one of the odd things is that the "volume control" on the human hearing system has an uneven frequency response. If you start by setting the volume of a source to "reference level" (for movies, that should mean the SPL at the listening seat in our home theater is the same as if we were in a properly set up commercial theater), and then turn the volume down (many people prefer to listen below "reference level" at home), our hearing response to the deep bass decreases more rapidly than our response to the midrange. i.e. the deep bass quickly "gets too soft" when we turn the volume down, not because of any flaw in the AV electronics but because of the nature of our hearing.

To compensate for this perceptual loss of deep bass at volumes below reference level, many listeners prefer to boost the deep bass. However, if you do that by turning up the SW volume, you will get a "step" in the frequency response at the crossover frequency. It would be better to apply a smooth rise to the frequency response below approximately 100 Hz, and avoid the "step". However, most bass tone controls on AV receivers aren't flexible enough to only apply a smooth rise below 100 Hz (they boost the bass over too wide a range).
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post #371 of 777 Old 12-29-2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Not quite. The "LFE" is content put in the disc's .1 channel, in the mixing studio. If you set speakers to 'Large', only the LFE is output to the subwoofer. Meanwhile, any bass that was mixed to the front left/center/right or surrounds in the studios, stays in those channels and goes to those speakers. But if you set the speakers to 'Small', the LFE plus the bass from the 'small' loudspeakers, is blended together and output to the subwoofer.

You are , of course , correct . My bad . I assume you've had the upgrade done on your '74 ?( I'm still waiting ) Had you noticed any previous problems with the "Auto" selector for Audio ? I've changed the Audio to Optical from HDMI in my PS3 but the '74 will lock onto HDMI instead of Digital . Video is HDMI switched through the '74 . Do you know if that is still a problem after the update ? I can change it manually each time .

Scott...............

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post #372 of 777 Old 12-30-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_R_K View Post

You are , of course , correct . My bad . I assume you've had the upgrade done on your '74 ?( I'm still waiting )


I haven't. I don't have an HD or Blu-Ray player, so the only issue is with DVD-A and SACD-->PCM, and for these I just boost the bass in my Oppo 970HD player first, before the AVR does bass management.


Quote:


Had you noticed any previous problems with the "Auto" selector for Audio ? I've changed the Audio to Optical from HDMI in my PS3 but the '74 will lock onto HDMI instead of Digital . Video is HDMI switched through the '74 . Do you know if that is still a problem after the update ? I can change it manually each time .


All my surround audio is via HDMI, while stereo is via Optical, and I've had no problems.
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post #373 of 777 Old 01-03-2008, 06:43 AM
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Hello mates, Pioneer VSX-82TXS owner here. Lub this receiver. But I recently upgraded my dvd player to HD-DVD. And I got some 1.3 hdmi cables. My receiver is not 1.3.

Also, I am missing some low end punch.


This thread is amazing (Pioneer VSX-84TXSi/VSX-82TXSi(VSX-AX4ASi/VSX-AX2ASi): latest USA firmware apparently fixes - with this, +10dB analogue SW boost also affects HDMI. New units may not have this firmware)

Found this : http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...+A+V+Receivers
Firmware avail.

But I wonder.... I bought my receiver in early summer 2006. HDMI video and video switching is flawless. Only issue is LFE. Should I get the firmware update? Or is it there already, and I need to make a setting change (doubt this).

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post #374 of 777 Old 01-03-2008, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

Hello mates, Pioneer VSX-82TXS owner here. Lub this receiver. But I recently upgraded my dvd player to HD-DVD. And I got some 1.3 hdmi cables. My receiver is not 1.3.

Also, I am missing some low end punch.


This thread is amazing (Pioneer VSX-84TXSi/VSX-82TXSi(VSX-AX4ASi/VSX-AX2ASi): latest USA firmware apparently fixes - with this, +10dB analogue SW boost also affects HDMI. New units may not have this firmware)

Found this : http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...+A+V+Receivers
Firmware avail.

But I wonder.... I bought my receiver in early summer 2006. HDMI video and video switching is flawless. Only issue is LFE. Should I get the firmware update? Or is it there already, and I need to make a setting change (doubt this).

Sounds like you need the firmware update. Call Pioneer for the closest compatible service center. With any luck, it should be driving distance. Here is my take on the before/after update concerning watching HD movies on the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi:

Before firmware: 6/10 (legacy DD/DTS gets real old after a while)
After firmware: 9/10 (hello TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD MA core!)

I couldn't watch HD movies with lossless tracks as there was absolutely no impact in the LFE and brought me back into reality instead of immersing me.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #375 of 777 Old 01-03-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Sounds like you need the firmware update. Call Pioneer for the closest compatible service center. With any luck, it should be driving distance. Here is my take on the before/after update concerning watching HD movies on the Pioneer VSX-84TXSi:

Before firmware: 6/10 (legacy DD/DTS gets real old after a while)
After firmware: 9/10 (hello TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD MA core!)

I couldn't watch HD movies with lossless tracks as there was absolutely no impact in the LFE and brought me back into reality instead of immersing me.



6/10 + 9/10 ???



1. power off receiver.
2. hold down the power button + standard surround buttons at the same time.
3. ignore the first series of info. as per pioneer.
4. write down the second series of info. this is the pertinent info.

My reciever was purchased in late March 2007!
I had no issues with hdmi or hdmi switching.
However, since adding a HD-DVD player, my LFE if missing in action.

My 2nd series of coding was: D1.003 H.005

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post #376 of 777 Old 01-03-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

6/10 + 9/10 ???



1. power off receiver.
2. hold down the power button + standard surround buttons at the same time.
3. ignore the first series of info. as per pioneer.
4. write down the second series of info. this is the pertinent info.

My reciever was purchased in late March 2007!
I had no issues with hdmi or hdmi switching.
However, since adding a HD-DVD player, my LFE if missing in action.

My 2nd series of coding was: D1.003 H.005

RyanA3, you might be better off following this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=787551

The 82's latest firmware should be:

M1.002 F0.503
D1.003 H1.005
HOST**
f1.004 s1.001

Check your 82 firmware again.

6/10 = 6 out of 10 rating before firmware
9/10 = 9 out of 10 rating after firmware

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #377 of 777 Old 01-04-2008, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

RyanA3, you might be better off following this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=787551

The 82's latest firmware should be:

M1.002 F0.503
D1.003 H1.005
HOST**
f1.004 s1.001

Check your 82 firmware again.

6/10 = 6 out of 10 rating before firmware
9/10 = 9 out of 10 rating after firmware


I hope some of the "pioneers" of this thread/issue/fix are still with us... so they can help the n00bs through??????????


I am about to unwire my receiver and drive 90 minutes.
Are you sure I don't need the LFE update.
My firmware is:

M1.002 F0.503
D1.003 H1.005
F1.004 S1.001

Which one of these is applicable to the LFE issue with hddvd/hdmi.
My hdmi (video portion) is ok.

If it's ok firmware. What do I need to do to fix the issue with the receiver.
I don't hear any sub since connecting an hddvd player.

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post #378 of 777 Old 01-04-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

I hope some of the "pioneers" of this thread/issue/fix are still with us... so they can help the n00bs through??????????


I am about to unwire my receiver and drive 90 minutes.
Are you sure I don't need the LFE update.
My firmware is:

M1.002 F0.503
D1.003 H1.005
F1.004 S1.001

Which one of these is applicable to the LFE issue with hddvd/hdmi.
My hdmi (video portion) is ok.

If it's ok firmware. What do I need to do to fix the issue with the receiver.
I don't hear any sub since connecting an hddvd player.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post12677216

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #379 of 777 Old 01-06-2008, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

As you may recall I did some tests a week or so ago with a Yamaha RX-V1700 and concluded that it did not seem to have the LFE issue. I now have a Yamaha HTR-6090 which I'll be testing over the next couple of days for the LFE issue. Since the 6090 is very similar to the 1700 I'm hopeful it'll test out ok. Will post my results back here shortly.


Did you ever run tests on the 6090 and see if it has the drop out problem? I just recently acquired a 6090 and fell that the Bass isnt as strong when using my Samsung 1400 and Toshiba A2 which are both sending signals over as PCM

Curious what else you found out?

Paul
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post #380 of 777 Old 01-07-2008, 04:48 PM
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Got my Pioneer VSX-74TXVi AVR upgraded today .

Latest firmware is now...

M1.015 F0.503
D1.013 H1.022
Host 28
F1.013 S1.011

Thanks to all who started the "heads-up" on this problem.

Scott.........................

"Home Theatre is a Journey , not a Destination "
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post #381 of 777 Old 01-19-2008, 01:44 AM
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I have an 84txsi with the firmware that lets you manaul add +10db. The problem is it doesn't appear to only apply to the LFE channel. All bass output is boosted, even the test tones, so MCACC detects the bass as 10db too high and calibrates it out.

Is their a firmware release that fixes the issue entirely, or is the front panel boost workaround as good as it gets?

Anyone know if the new 9 series has the problem as well? i.e. VSX-94TX

 

 

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post #382 of 777 Old 02-06-2008, 07:55 PM
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Sorry for such a basic question, but is it normal for the LFE brackets on my Pioneer VSX-82 to blink on and off during a program on HDMI connection?...and could a fault in the process result in occasional sound cuts of a fration of a second?? Having trouble finding the source of the cutting sound...

And didn't have time to read all 13 pages of posts here...sorry, thanks for the input...

I'm quite new to this setup and don't have much knowledge so far...
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post #383 of 777 Old 02-20-2008, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

Sorry for such a basic question, but is it normal for the LFE brackets on my Pioneer VSX-82 to blink on and off during a program on HDMI connection?...and could a fault in the process result in occasional sound cuts of a fration of a second?? Having trouble finding the source of the cutting sound...

And didn't have time to read all 13 pages of posts here...sorry, thanks for the input...

I'm quite new to this setup and don't have much knowledge so far...

The brackets will flash when there is LFE or .1 information on the disk being played . This is quite normal . Some disks have very little LFE info and others are loaded .

When you say the sound cuts out , what exactly are you referring to ? All channels , Sub only ...? Give us a few more details . You may have to give us most of the Setup Parameters in the Pio Menu to give us an idea what's happening .

Scott.................

"Home Theatre is a Journey , not a Destination "
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post #384 of 777 Old 02-20-2008, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

I have an 84txsi with the firmware that lets you manaul add +10db. The problem is it doesn't appear to only apply to the LFE channel. All bass output is boosted, even the test tones, so MCACC detects the bass as 10db too high and calibrates it out.

Is their a firmware release that fixes the issue entirely, or is the front panel boost workaround as good as it gets?

Anyone know if the new 9 series has the problem as well? i.e. VSX-94TX

Please read page 1 of this Thread . Your model is listed as one that has this problem and identifies the need for a firmware upgrade . Pioneer is doing this upgrade for free . Just contact them and arrange it .

Scott.................

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post #385 of 777 Old 02-25-2008, 11:10 AM
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Okay, what level should the subwoofer output be? If it were just the LFE track, then you'd expect it, as discussed above, to be 10dB lower than the other channels to fit the 10dB higher maximum LFE output.

But if the player is performing bass management, then the subwoofer output also has to contain redirected bass; this extra signal could push the signal back above its nominal limit. To prevent overloading their output, or the receiver's input, players with bass management conventionally lower the SW output by a further 5dB. (This 5dB value is specified by Dolby, see references). Sometimes this 5dB drop switches in and out depending on whether bass management is being performed (ie if any speakers are set to SMALL).

The final SW output will typically be:

SW = LFE
or:

SW = Lower5dB(LFE + Lower10dB(Redirected bass)) = Lower5dB(LFE) + Lower15dB(Redirected bass)
So, in those two cases the SW output from the player will be respectively 10dB or 15dB lower than the other channels. A receiver should offer the ability to specifically boost the SW input on its multichannel analogue interface to compensate.

I have a Toshiba HD-A1, and I am using 5.1 analog outputs. I have my speakers set to small in the player, as I cannot change this in my receiver (HK AVR-7000) for 5.1 analog inputs.

First, does the player correctly mix the redirected bass and the LFE bass? If not, I am screwed right there.

Also, do I adjust the SW by 10dB in the receiver or by 15dB?

I am also interested in getting a Blu-Ray player, probably the Panasonic BD50 when it is available. I know this player is not out yet, but what about the BD30? Does that mix the redirected bass and LFE bass correctly, and does it output -15 or -10dB?
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post #386 of 777 Old 02-25-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

... what about the BD30? Does that mix the redirected bass and LFE bass correctly, and does it output -15 or -10dB?

AFAIK the BD30 doesn't decode itself, it only bitstreams to the receiver/amp.
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post #387 of 777 Old 03-05-2008, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm back, at last.

I finally bought a player+receiver - the Denon AVR-4308 and DVD-3930.

Just found one interesting nugget about the AVR-4308 - it isn't quite right out of the box. I'm using Denon Link, and when passing multichannel sources digitally, the AVR lets you select your LFE level, from 0dB (ie 10dB boost) to -10dB (ie equal level) in the Parameter/Audio/Sound Parameters menu.

But it defaults to 0dB for DSD, which is wrong. If passing SACD over Denon Link, you should set LFE to -10dB. Fortunately, it seems to remember the LFE level on a per-input-type basis, so you can set it on DSD "MULTI CH IN" and "DSD MULTI DIRECT" then forget it. (It seems to distinguish between DSD and PCM "MULTI CH IN" for remembering parameters, fortunately, even though they have the same name).

I found a useful LFE cancellation test to check on Pentatone's "Stay in Tune with Pentatone" SACD - if bass management is on with small speakers, then the 60Hz test on track 36 serves as a concrete test of the LFE level relative to mains, without the subwoofer level mattering (because everything is coming out of the subwoofer - it's just checking that the main signal cancels the LFE signal).

The DVD-3930 gives perfect cancellation over its multichannel output, but with Denon Link you have to go to -10dB on the AVR.

This suggests that the DVD-3930 outputs the SACD DSD raw over Denon Link, and thus the receiver needs to compensate for equal-level LFE. I wonder what the DSD-over-HDMI folk are doing. I suspect they're the same, so the same DSD-specific handling would be needed.
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post #388 of 777 Old 03-16-2008, 06:20 AM
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1) I thought I read that the LFE track is already recorded
10db louder than the other channels.
So if I just play the disc and if the receiver isnt doing any
boost and if I am not changing the subwoofer level, does it
mean that the LFE is playing 10 db louder than the rest.

or

2) is it true that the LFE is not recorded 10db louder so
to make it play louder I have to boost the LFE on my
receiver either using the LFE level control or the
subwoofer level control or both.


If 2) is correct and if there are AVR's that provide both
LFE level control and subwoofer level control, then why
are people asking for the AVR to apply the 10db boost
by default.


I know there is a lot of stuff already. I tried reading all the
articles but I am having a hard time understanding. I guess
if I clear my misconception and read further I may understand
better.
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post #389 of 777 Old 03-16-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

1) I thought I read that the LFE track is already recorded
10db louder than the other channels.
So if I just play the disc and if the receiver isnt doing any
boost and if I am not changing the subwoofer level, does it
mean that the LFE is playing 10 db louder than the rest.

or

2) is it true that the LFE is not recorded 10db louder so
to make it play louder I have to boost the LFE on my
receiver either using the LFE level control or the
subwoofer level control or both.


If 2) is correct and if there are AVR's that provide both
LFE level control and subwoofer level control, then why
are people asking for the AVR to apply the 10db boost
by default.


I know there is a lot of stuff already. I tried reading all the
articles but I am having a hard time understanding. I guess
if I clear my misconception and read further I may understand
better.

Its the other way around.... LFE is recorded 10db LOW and needs to be boosted in the amp. Since the intention is that the SW be capable of going 10db louder than the other channels... and that LFE is transmitted over the same type of 'transport' (PCM or analog)... it needs to be recorded 10db low so that it wont overload the transport when it reaches full output levels. A 10db boost in the amp then restores the level. Note that if you have any speakers set to small... it needs 15db cut and boost instead of 10db. This is because you are adding even more bass info into SW channel and have to reduce it further to keep it from overloading at full output.

If you are sending bitstream to the receiver... all should be fine. PCM is a bit more iffy but many if not most/all receivers can apply various boosts to LFE/SW to compensate. Analog is a mixed bag.... recent receivers seem to have the capability but older ones dont.
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post #390 of 777 Old 03-16-2008, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scsiraid View Post

Its the other way around.... LFE is recorded 10db LOW and needs to be boosted in the amp. Since the intention is that the SW be capable of going 10db louder than the other channels... and that LFE is transmitted over the same type of 'transport' (PCM or analog)... it needs to be recorded 10db low so that it wont overload the transport when it reaches full output levels. A 10db boost in the amp then restores the level. Note that if you have any speakers set to small... it needs 15db cut and boost instead of 10db. This is because you are adding even more bass info into SW channel and have to reduce it further to keep it from overloading at full output.

If you are sending bitstream to the receiver... all should be fine. PCM is a bit more iffy but many if not most/all receivers can apply various boosts to LFE/SW to compensate. Analog is a mixed bag.... recent receivers seem to have the capability but older ones dont.

Thanks for the clarification.

I was wondering why record it 10db low and then boost it 10db
Instead if it was recorded at the same level as other channels,
then there wouldnt be any need to boost it right?
So record it at the same level as other channels and then if
the user wants to hear it louder he/she can increase the
sub woofer level.
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