Denon's Audyssey vs. Pioneer's MCACC - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Care to share what difference you can tell with regards to quality of acoustic music?
I think "inferior" is quite a hard word here. smile.gif

Care to share what difference you can tell with regards to quality of acoustic music?

Get this, don't take my word for it. Test it yourself, same material, dif format ...you might be surprise wink.gif

I think "inferior" is quite a hard word here. smile.gif OK, "different" cool.gif

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post #92 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

Well, that's good that it worked for you/room, but other would disagree, including myself. Audyssey has it's methods for room EQ, including bass, but sometimes, its results would not be satisfactory (missing bass weight, etc) for some songs -or the whole thing. Since, you're not able to go a manipulate the curves in a none pro version, you're stock with what Audyssey give you. Other RoomEQ, like MCACC allows you to change it the way you like it. I could go in, increase the bass in the curve, if I want, change the time, Turn-off RoomEQ and leave Phase On, etc. --In Audyssey, you'll be limited.


I understand the pros and cons, but MCACC, at least until they offer a full-range version, did not let you adjust all the 'bass in the curve' because it did not actually operate down to 20 Hz.

I suspect, but do no knwo for sure, that 'phase' is a function of the 'subwoofer distance' setting in Audyssey AVRs, and I recall you can turn Audyssey EQ off while still retaining speaker distacce settings and levels.

I very much liked that MCACC allowed storing 6 separate settings. But in the end, Audyssey simply throws more processing power and more bass treatment at the signal than MCACC did, and bass is the place where you want most DSP to operate in most rooms. It also allows multi-sub correction and MCACC, at the time, did not. I have no skin in the game and if Pioneer improved MCACC I would not hesitate to try it again.

I like Audyssey's Dynamic EQ too, basically it's applying a *proper* (and user-adjustable) loudness control for low-level listening.
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Audio resolution is a function of bit depth. Pretty much all AVRs operate at 24 (or 32 float) bit depth. Extending the sample rate basically broadens the bandwidth of captured frequencies. And again, unless you are a bat, 96kHz vs higher rates is not going to matter.

Well, per your logic, why even go to up 96 Khz, lets keep it at 48 Khz and call a day, since we aren't bats wink.gif

Indeed. What *do* we need higher sample rates than 44.1 kHz for, and under what circumstances? I'm curious to hear your answers (and then I will share mine).
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post #93 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:00 AM
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DSD-thenewaddiction-v2.pdf 482k .pdf file
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Indeed. What *do* we need higher sample rates than 44.1 kHz for, and under what circumstances? I'm curious to hear your answers (and then I will share mine).

Read this
Bats wink.gif

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post #94 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

I understand the pros and cons, but MCACC, at least until they offer a full-range version, did not let you adjust all the 'bass in the curve' because it did not actually operate down to 20 Hz.

I suspect, but do no knwo for sure, that 'phase' is a function of the 'subwoofer distance' setting in Audyssey AVRs, and I recall you can turn Audyssey EQ off while still retaining speaker distacce settings and levels.

I very much liked that MCACC allowed storing 6 separate settings. But in the end, Audyssey simply throws more processing power and more bass treatment at the signal than MCACC did, and bass is the place where you want most DSP to operate in most rooms. It also allows multi-sub correction and MCACC, at the time, did not. I have no skin in the game and if Pioneer improved MCACC I would not hesitate to try it again.

I like Audyssey's Dynamic Volume too, basically it's applying a *proper* (and user-adjustable) loudness control for low-level listening.

Try the new Pioneers, you'll see what I am talking about. It seems you haven't try the new stuff yet.

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post #95 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

DSD-thenewaddiction-v2.pdf 482k .pdf file
Read this
Bats wink.gif

Gee, a white paper from someone who worked at Sony designing DSD. That's sure an unbiased scientific source. rolleyes.gif

It always struck me as odd that Sony refused to ever publish listening test results demonstrating what should be the *obvious* audible superiority of their format.

There's none in this white paper either.

You realize, too, that DSD players typically have lowpass output filters in them that pass 'only' up to 50 or 100kHz? RIght?
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post #96 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Gee, a white paper from someone who worked at Sony designing DSD. That's sure an unbiased scientific source. rolleyes.gif

It always struck me as odd that Sony refused to ever publish listening test results demonstrating what should be the *obvious* audible superiority of their format.

There's none in this white paper either.

How about the second link from Mr. Jared Sacks? biased ? wink.gif

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post #97 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

I like Audyssey's Dynamic EQ too, basically it's applying a *proper* (and user-adjustable) loudness control for low-level listening.

Ah, actually Audyssey DynamicEQ is not just applying *proper* (and user-adjustable) loudness control for low-level listening, but it has a two-tier operational scheme.

First tier adjusts the equal loudness curves for human perception based on MV (Master Volume) setting when turned down from cinema reference level calibrated to 0 dB MV. The second tier adjusts in accordance with the passage whether it's loud or soft (with the MV untouched), in other words adjusts the equal loudness curves accordingly on the fly (read: in real time). It works so fine that it would only become apparent when taken away. smile.gif
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post #98 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

How about the second link from Mr. Jared Sacks? biased ? wink.gif

Really? A Jason Serinus interview with some high-rez file seller, in Stereophile? Where his most cogent argument is "To me, DSD's superiority has to do with emotion, depth, and how the sound leaves the speaker."

Be serious. Yes, that is biased. Do you understand why listening tests need to be 'blinded'?

And you realize, too, that DSD players typically have lowpass output filters in them that pass 'only' up to 50 or 100kHz? RIght?
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post #99 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

You realize, too, that DSD players typically have lowpass output filters in them that pass 'only' up to 50 or 100kHz? RIght?

Don't believe me or anyone... just get this

Make sure you have a player that support SACD and AVR that support direct DSD. You'll have your answer.

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post #100 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

Don't believe me or anyone... just get this

Make sure you have a player that support SACD and AVR that support direct DSD. You'll have your answer.

um.. no, I won't.

How have you compared PCM to DSD using this disc?

Again: do you understand why listening tests need to be 'blinded'?
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post #101 of 101 Old 04-21-2014, 11:14 AM
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I did a A/B comparison between BluRAY-A LPCM using PQLS and SACD using Bit steam.

Yes, I do understand why it needs to be "blinded", but do you know those could be flawed?

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