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post #2161 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

Warren,
You're comparing apples to oranges...Yes, there were 3D movies before Avatar and a lot were badly made, but until Avatar came out, there had been no real "campaign" for 3D to expand and be taken seriously. Movies like Friday the 13th Part 3, were made for fun and for the "gimmick" part of 3D, with similar 3D movies popping up now and then.

Again with 3DTVs you comparing apples & oranges. You're comparing HDTVs of old with today's HDTVs and 3DTVs. Yes, as we all know, consumer electronics is probably the only consumer product that actually has newer and better models come out at a lower cost than models that were out before. I agree with you on comparing your HDTV costs, mine is similar. My Samsung 40" was $1400.00 when I bought it in 2008. Now you can pick up a Samsung 40" for about $600 or so. I was comparing 3DTVs to 2DTVs pricing in 2009-2010. 3DTVs, be it bundled with glasses and 3DBD player, were about $1500 to $2000 more then a comparable 2DTV. Today things are different. In just 3 years the cost of a current 3DTV is much more closer to the cost of a current 2DTV. But I have notice that there seems to be less bundling out there except for still including the 3D glasses. Of course when you can now buy a 3D BD player for under $100.00 now, it's not really necessary to "bundle" one as an incentive to buy the 3DTV.

Ghpr13

then I guess my question would be

Why did you make the reference to today's crappy 3D movies...since you agree that they were always available?

I also find it interesting that you comment on the quality of Avatar( and others) ..but have yet to see it in your own home viewing environment?


In regard to pricing..you are comparing apples and oranges

You are not accurate on several points...

The bundles:

I didn't buy mine with a bundle. Bundles were on again off again last year depending on brand and time of the year


I am the case in point that broad assumptions about bundle buying is not accurate

and $1500-2000 more for 3D?..not really
Apples and oranges..because you could not get the same quality 2D and 3D television in the same manufacturers line
So..how can you even compare the two?

Give me some model numbers..please?..you like to paint these broad statements with no details

Perhaps what you should have said was that last year 3D, for the most part, was only available in the manufacturers top models and not available in mid line models
The prices that prevailed , in those models, was commensurate with the difference in quality in panels of the same size

Excluding Samsung's C590( 50" 720P 3D) from last year..you had to buy a manufacturers top model to get 3D availability

Go back and look at what the differences were in the the Panasonic V10 and the brands mid line models...as well as the Samsung B860 and do the same comparison

Both of those were their respective manufacturers top models from 2009
See what the differences in pricing was...and you will say that 3D was a free item on the 2010 models..based on comparative pricing
For instance the Samsung B860 was a more expensive TV than my C8000...and the B860( from 2009) was not 3D capable

Samsung had a much lower cost 3D blu ray player last year, as well..the BDC-5900...minimal frills...and 3D capable


2011 is a new game...you can now buy a mid line LG with with 3D...I have seen an $89 3D capable blu rayplayer

We haven't even gotten to black Friday yet..my understanding is that there will be sub $300 40" TV's

Lastly...you said you paid $1400 for a Samsung 40A550?
Interesting..I paid about that same price for a model that was 2 steps up..the A750


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post #2162 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 04:41 AM
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I think its rather interesting

Some said that 3D was doomed a year ago..and we now have approximately 3x the available products( TV's and blu ray players) as we did when they rolled the products out for the 2010 model year

There is really no premium for the technology..based on what I see the increased pricing also gets you additional features and a better 2D picture

If what one poster said was true...that there is really no additional cost to the manufacturer for 3D...then that makes sense based on the fact that there is really no price difference

There is at least double the movies available...some of them gimmicky...but still none the less they are there

Direct TV has several 3D channels..and have almost doubled their offering in the last year
I have watched a few concerts in 3D..and a couple of sporting events that I thought were interesting on Direct TV

I saw a posting in another thread that caught my attention.... it could be based on pure speculation
My understanding is that there have been some pretty substantial cost savings in manufacturing in the last year in flat panel manufacturing

So...based on these gigantic (70+) TV's coming out at what I think are relative reasonable prices..this could be true

You now have the Sharp with a couple of large panels... a 70" at about 2.5K( street price) ..somewhat of a mid line TV..and then the high end Elite 70" at $7999( MSRP)

I would also expect the prices of all the panels to see a decline in the coming 12 months...again..if what I read has any legitimacy


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post #2163 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Using your process ...cable, satellite and blu ray are all in trouble

ok....

If asking for detail that disallows "spinning" of a story is pulling hairs. Then I guess I am pulling hairs

You easily have spun the story a different way..ie...check the sales statistics of high end A/V in the United States ...and made the assumption that the top tier of the market could easily be doing well and will be expanding rapidly in product breath and depth

Look at the new Elite brand that Sharp just rolled out


I also find it interesting...that you speculated months ago that 3D was going to be a niche market for A/V enthusiasts

Well..for 2011..the technology has come to mid range products
I don't know many A/V enthusiast that are buying mid line products...do you?

Using your methodology..I would further "speculate"
When the 2012 models rolls out shortly..we will see 3rd tier and store branded panels that are 3D capable

Time will tell...there have already been store branded 3D capable blu ray players released


Would you still agree with your niche market statement?

Warren

One aked for proof about deep cuts in televsion production only - not cable, bluray or any other form of consumer electronics - claiming the facts presented were unsubstantiated and speculative only. Proof was provided and thus the subject of television production was ignored and changed to other areas to avoid further discussion of the issue at hand.

Truly "spoken from a person who makes assumption based on facts they can't substantiate" and best be ignored, right GhP?
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post #2164 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 07:54 AM
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I think it's a good thing that prices really haven't been impacted for buying 3D technology (TVs, Blu rays, etc.) because if the trend is here to stay (and I think we can agree it is) then the technology needs to be affordable. However, last thing I want is to see is every movie out in 3D... I'd be watching a lot more older movies.
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post #2165 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

then I guess my question would be

Why did you make the reference to today's crappy 3D movies...since you agree that they were always available?

I also find it interesting that you comment on the quality of Avatar( and others) ..but have yet to see it in your own home viewing environment?


In regard to pricing..you are comparing apples and oranges

You are not accurate on several points...

The bundles:

I didn't buy mine with a bundle. Bundles were on again off again last year depending on brand and time of the year


I am the case in point that broad assumptions about bundle buying is not accurate

and $1500-2000 more for 3D?..not really
Apples and oranges..because you could not get the same quality 2D and 3D television in the same manufacturers line
So..how can you even compare the two?

Give me some model numbers..please?..you like to paint these broad statements with no details

Perhaps what you should have said was that last year 3D, for the most part, was only available in the manufacturers top models and not available in mid line models
The prices that prevailed , in those models, was commensurate with the difference in quality in panels of the same size

Excluding Samsung's C590( 50" 720P 3D) from last year..you had to buy a manufacturers top model to get 3D availability

Go back and look at what the differences were in the the Panasonic V10 and the brands mid line models...as well as the Samsung B860 and do the same comparison

Both of those were their respective manufacturers top models from 2009
See what the differences in pricing was...and you will say that 3D was a free item on the 2010 models..based on comparative pricing
For instance the Samsung B860 was a more expensive TV than my C8000...and the B860( from 2009) was not 3D capable

Samsung had a much lower cost 3D blu ray player last year, as well..the BDC-5900...minimal frills...and 3D capable


2011 is a new game...you can now buy a mid line LG with with 3D...I have seen an $89 3D capable blu rayplayer

We haven't even gotten to black Friday yet..my understanding is that there will be sub $300 40" TV's

Lastly...you said you paid $1400 for a Samsung 40A550?
Interesting..I paid about that same price for a model that was 2 steps up..the A750


Warren

Warren,
What difference does it matter if I seen Avatar in 3D at the theater or at home? I said the 3D was great in Avatar. Are you trying to say that the home 3D version wasn't as great? That can be the only reason you feel it is so important that I should have seen Avatar 3D on a 3DTV. I seen it, I liked the 3D, so what's the problem. Are you saying the only way to really judge the quality of a 3D movie is on a 3DTV? You make no sense in repeating that I can't have an opinion on the quality of Avatar's 3D because I only seen it at the theater in 3D.

I'm through discussing this issue with you. You haven't grasp what I was saying ever since my post #2076. You act as if anyone who has a different opinion of 3D is against it. Also, I did not say I paid $1400.00 for my LN40A550, I said that is what the cost was at the time. I paid $1000.00 for mine, tax and shipping included. Not that it really matters.

I'm glad you enjoy your 3DTV. I'm glad for anyone who enjoys the TV or other electronics they have bought. I love my Samsung LN40A550, even if it is 3 years old and not in the league of your 3DTV. My next TV will more then likely be a 3DTV. So I don't know what all your whining is about, but I do know that I'm tired of it.

Ghpr13

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post #2166 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 08:58 AM
 
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Joe:

As far as predictions go - saw this in the news today:


Sony Announces More Losses And Forecasts Red Ink For The Year

Quote:


TOKYO – Sony posted another quarter of red ink as losses widened to 27 billion yen ($350 million) for the three months to Sept. 30, on weaker LCD TV sales and a strengthening yen that continues to hurt earnings. The company is forecasting a full-year loss of $1.15 billion, after predicting a profit back in July.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...recasts-256158

So when you take companies/the media to task about making a prediction that is years into the future, Sony couldn't make an accurate prediction that was just 3 months into the future.
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post #2167 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

You are like the majority of Americans who get their programming over the air



Warren

Can you clarify this statement for me because "the majority of USA households" do not get their TV programing from OTA. They get it from "pay TV (CBL/SAT/TELCO)" Less then 10% of USA HH's get their TV programming from OTA.
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post #2168 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post


One aked for proof about deep cuts in televsion production only - not cable, bluray or any other form of consumer electronics - claiming the facts presented were unsubstantiated and speculative only. Proof was provided and thus the subject of television production was ignored and changed to other areas to avoid further discussion of the issue at hand.

Truly "spoken from a person who makes assumption based on facts they can't substantiate" and best be ignored, right GhP?

no...actually if you comprehended what I asked..you didn't answer the point in question

You can choose to ignore what ever you choose to ignore

My question to you was about what specific areas of the product line were cut....

Using your litmus test..as I pointed out with the other mediums...they are all in trouble

Something that you choose...amazingly..not to address

Its most humorous that while you choose to speculate about the direction of the industry...it has "mysteriously" not followed the direction you had predicted..??

Its amazing as I read your posts from last season...it appears you didn't hit the mark

I guess you still agree with statements you made last year?

But hey...keep going Joe...making your business case and see if the market follows
It has proved you incorrect in the last 12 months..most definitely

There are many of us who can comment firsthand on this technology that is ...as you say " not mainstream"....

My experience has has taught me ...that advice on a product or service is better from those who actually have experience with the good or service


on almost every page in this thread there is something stated about functionality, product pricing differences, 3D glasses operation,3D images, availability of 3D media/ broad casting and 3D viewing on different screen formats. ....and its just factually incorrect
Most recently incorrect facts include......the cleaning of DLP's once a year, $1500-2000 difference in 3D TV pricing and there was some other "horseradish" about some percentage of people that cant wear 3D glasses and why

And then a person tries to make a point with a factually incorrect statement..?
Seriously?
I guess ones expectations should be adjusted for statements made by those that don't own the format

On another note...the myriad of folks that make up avs forum...
I guess we are just mavericks have to buck the trends that you say have been coming for more than a year

Funny thing is...seems our numbers are growing?

what are your stats on the ownership of home 3D capable televisions( and other media) in the last year...has it gone up?

There is a litmus test for you

Warren

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post #2169 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

I think a lot of the negativity of 3D & 3DTV came more from Hollywood than anyplace else, IMO. It started on a high note with Avatar...It seemed that 95% of the people who seen Avatar were truly amazed by the 3D effects (my self included). This was not the 3D of old. But then Hollywood, thinking with their short term brains, brought out Clash of the Titans in 3D, and I would bet 95% of the people who seen that hated the 3D effects. After that Hollywood started the push for 3D movies...They just needed to get 3D movies out there, no matter how good or bad they were.

Your time line is off. 3D at the BO did not "take off" when AVATAR was released. It had already taken off in 2009. The same with the number of 3D movies. See page 5:

http://www.mpaa.org/Resources/93bbeb...41c459f9ac.pdf

Quote:


Then the CE manufacturers started the push for 3DTVs in mass quantities, along with high prices. Even though there was very little 3D medium to watch at home, and the fact that you would need a new BD player capable of playing 3D BD. And of course the glasses...but that's been debated to death in this thread, so let me go on.

So how is this different then when HDTV was launched? You had high priced TVs with very little HD content being made available. The same holds true when Color TV was launched. And for those with a PS3, all they had to do was wait for the free 3D upgrade.

Quote:


Now back to Hollywood. More 3D movies coming out to the theaters, but still none that had come close to Avatar. Critics starting to speak out about some of the bad 3D effects, and the evils of post production 3D. Hollywood keeps releasing more 3D movies, most of them not very good, 3D wise. Consumers start questioning paying higher ticket prices for the 3D version of a movie compared to the 2D version.

Of all the directors in Hollywood, only one of them had any experience shooting and producing content in 3D. And that one director is James Cameron. The complexity of shooting in 3D versus in 2D is increased by a factor of 10. It is not an easy medium to work in. Shots that work great in 2D don't work at all in 3D. There is a severe learning curve when moving from 2D to 3D. I am discussing the production and not the actual movie itself (plot, actors, etc)

Quote:


Meanwhile, home theater enthusiasts, and others who have made the leap to 3DTV await the 3D BD of Avatar. A movie that, IMO, had it been release in 3D BD around the holiday season of 2010, would have really help sales of 3DTVs, but, instead a 2D version is released!(I still feel this is the biggest blunder in 3DTV promoting ever.)

That decision was made by Panasonic, who assisted in the production of AVATAR the movie. One can speculate that it helped Panasonic sell their 3DTVs and that is what they cared about. Not helping Samsung or LG or Sony tp sell their 3DTVs.

Quote:


As time progresses, we here more info on movies like The Green Hornet, that was originally produce in 2D, but at the last minute was made 3D to try to ride the 3D wave. Along with stories like this we get the "news" stories about 3D giving people headaches, causing dizziness, bad for the eyes in younger children, can lead to E.D., etc. Some good does come too. Cloudy, with a Chance of Meatballs, and Aliens vs Monsters, stop being the only 3D BD widely available and as the only freebies with a complete 3DTV bundle. And Avatar finally gets released in 3D BD, but only as part of a special 3DTV bundle...but hey, it's out in 3D 2 years later. Transformer: Dark of the Moon, & the re-release of The Lion King in 3D were just 2 of the most recent highs in 3D. (And yes, I went to see TransformersOTM in 3D and it was great!)

So, IMO, a lot of the blame for the negativity of 3D & 3DTV falls at the feet of Hollywood. Hollywood has always put the mighty dollar above all else, giving to us with one hand, while taking from us with the other.

Ghpr13

Currently there are well over 100 3D BD titles available at retailers. The list of CEM exclusives has shrunk to 5 (of which 2 will be released in the next 7 days) and two are obscure IMAX titles.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235684

And in the case of CEM exclusives, it wasn't the studios idea to use them. It was the CEMs throwing money at the studios to get the exclusives.
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post #2170 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

Warren,
What difference does it matter if I seen Avatar in 3D at the theater or at home? I said the 3D was great in Avatar. Are you trying to say that the home 3D version wasn't as great? That can be the only reason you feel it is so important that I should have seen Avatar 3D on a 3DTV. I seen it, I liked the 3D, so what's the problem. Are you saying the only way to really judge the quality of a 3D movie is on a 3DTV? You make no sense in repeating that I can't have an opinion on the quality of Avatar's 3D because I only seen it at the theater in 3D.

I'm through discussing this issue with you. You haven't grasp what I was saying ever since my post #2076. You act as if anyone who has a different opinion of 3D is against it. Also, I did not say I paid $1400.00 for my LN40A550, I said that is what the cost was at the time. I paid $1000.00 for mine, tax and shipping included. Not that it really matters.

I'm glad you enjoy your 3DTV. I'm glad for anyone who enjoys the TV or other electronics they have bought. I love my Samsung LN40A550, even if it is 3 years old and not in the league of your 3DTV. My next TV will more then likely be a 3DTV. So I don't know what all your whining is about, but I do know that I'm tired of it.

Ghpr13


No..I am saying it was different in a home environment than the theater

I thought I made that point clear..??,,,and frankly that I asked the question if you had seen it in your own home

The home 3D experience is different than the theater one...

I have no issue with a different opinion

What's an issue is using non factual information as a point..

Case in point...the $1500-2000 difference in 3D TV

Its not accurate...simple as that. That was point...you make all these statements about bundles and pricing etc that are simply not accurate

again...like you said not that it really matters...but why would you say $1400 if you paid $1000?

and..in the league of my TV?

seriously?



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post #2171 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Can you clarify this statement for me because "the majority of USA households" do not get their TV programing from OTA. They get it from "pay TV (CBL/SAT/TELCO)" Less then 10% of USA HH's get their TV programming from OTA.

You are somewhat accurate...though its hard to find a number that not convoluted by geography

The numbers that use it exclusively as well as a supplement to their pay TV service is large percentage

http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/96452

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post #2172 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Joe:

As far as predictions go - saw this in the news today:


Sony Announces More Losses And Forecasts Red Ink For The Year



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...recasts-256158

So when you take companies/the media to task about making a prediction that is years into the future, Sony couldn't make an accurate prediction that was just 3 months into the future.

Hi Lee,

Thanks for providing further evidence about what I was saying.

Been reading the points and sense from what you have written that the actual production cost for adding 3D is nowhere near the additional price tag added to sets with that feature. I also think (again, from reading your posts) that the industry was easily able to absorb the costs for research and development stages considering the multi-billion dollar budgets of the major corporations. Though the actual amounts is conjecture on anyone's part, based on past consumer electronic items and eventual lower price tags, the cost factor will not present a problem keeping 3D as a feature in most sets so there should be no financial reason to limit it's inclusion down the road. The cost will simply be absorbed into the retail price tag and be dependent upon how they want to market the feature.

As far as the industry/media making accurate projections for the future, it's no different than stock brokers who buy high and then are forced to sell low.
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post #2173 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

You are somewhat accurate...though its hard to find a number that not convoluted by geography

The numbers that use it exclusively as well as a supplement to their pay TV service is large percentage.


http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/96452

Warren

From your link:

Quote:


And another thing, Schneider said: “FCC reports that only 10 percent of American homes rely solely on over-the-air TV signals

Nowheres in that link does it state the amount of viewing time any of the HHs that have an OTA antenna use it. Just that they have it.
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post #2174 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Hi Lee,

Been reading the points and sense from what you have written that the actual production cost for adding 3D is nowhere near the additional price tag added to sets with that feature. Though the actual amount is conjecture on anyone's part, based on past consumer electronic items and eventual lower price tags, the cost factor will not present a problem keeping 3D as a feature in most sets so there should be no financial reason to limit it's inclusion down the road. The cost will simply be absorbed into the retail price tag.

It isn't conjecture Joe. What is needed to make an HDTV a 3DTV is just a handful of cheap parts. The only exception to this is the Panasonic VT series which uses a different PDP panel then all their other HDTVs.

You should already know that pricing on new products is not based on manufacturing cost. Nor for that matter for many existing products. Just look at DVDs. They cost less then a dollar to manufacture including the packaging.

And if you look at history, you will see one of the very few products that drops in price every year are television sets.

Quote:


As far as the industry/media making accurate projections for the future, it's no different than the stock brokers who buy high and then are forced to sell low.

Joe

Correct But you still continue to bring up in your arguments from time to time, a prediction that was made concerning the number of households that would have a 3DTV by 2014. Which was made BTW within a few months of 3DTV actually being launched.

LOL - if you would like I can link an article that was written that predicted HDTV would be a failure.
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post #2175 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 11:11 AM
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It isn't conjecture Joe. What is needed to make an HDTV a 3DTV is just a handful of cheap parts. The only exception to this is the Panasonic VT series which uses a different PDP panel then all their other HDTVs.

You should already know that pricing on new products is not based on manufacturing cost. Nor for that matter for many existing products. Just look at DVDs. They cost less then a dollar to manufacture including the packaging.

And if you look at history, you will see one of the very few products that drops in price every year are television sets.



Correct But you still continue to bring up in your arguments from time to time, a prediction that was made concerning the number of households that would have a 3DTV by 2014. Which was made BTW within a few months of 3DTV actually being launched.

LOL - if you would like I can link an article that was written that predicted HDTV would be a failure.

Hi Lee,

Still bringing up those predictions is in response to those insisting the projections are actually occuring and consumers are rushing out to buy new monitors at this time, disputing that the industry has been losing money as far as television sales versus production costs is concerned for a few years due to the HD monitor boom being over. As you correctly point out, 3D is instead in the "early adopter" stage (I now call it an early turnover cycle since it seems 3D will become a standard feature in most sets down the road) with only the expected initial "niche" following at this time. I'm tired of it as much as you must be.

Being a silent film buff, I can provide a critique of how those within the industry predicted sound as a failure and that Warner Brothers would go out of business investing all it's money in "The Jazz Singer".

And you're right, the price tag never justifies the cost. I forgot who it was that gave as an example the fact that all sets are built with the multiple connections not found on lower priced monitors and if one looks, they will find the slot for them simply covered (which I found with my Samsung LCD) not to mention the higher contrast and black levels are in all sets and then cut down in the less expensive sets.
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post #2176 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 11:31 AM
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From your link:



Nowheres in that link does it state the amount of viewing time any of the HHs that have an OTA antenna use it. Just that they have it.

not sure it mentions anything about actual viewing time..just the percentage of households that use an OTA for some or all of their programming

"however these numbers don't take into consideration the 35 to 50 percent of households that use an antenna as a supplement to pay TV. Close to 50 percent of the 114 million TV-watching households are using an antenna"



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post #2177 of 2615 Old 11-02-2011, 11:43 AM
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Correct But you still continue to bring up in your arguments from time to time, a prediction that was made concerning the number of households that would have a 3DTV by 2014. Which was made BTW within a few months of 3DTV actually being launched.

LOL - if you would like I can link an article that was written that predicted HDTV would be a failure.


and he would probably say that has been a failure as well...you should read some of his posts( predictions) from last year.
Compare then to today's reality...a see who didn't have the trend marked correctly

Lee..you bring up a point I mentioned many times a year ago

the fact that the prices of these are dropping year after year
Based on that fact alone...a TV represents a much smaller investment...adjusted for inflation...that it did 10 years ago...even if the average wage hasn't moved much...the price of flat panel TV has dropped diligently year after year

but wait..I do recall a statement,posted recently, that 3D television was $1500-2000 more expensive just a year ago

yea..right....

if you read this thread..back several pages..perhaps many pages if you take the time
Fact and fiction seem to intermingle intermingle ......and frankly more fiction with the posted starts, pricing and performance attributes

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not sure it mentions anything about actual viewing time..just the percentage of households that use an OTA for some or all of their programming

"however these numbers don’t take into consideration the 35 to 50 percent of households that use an antenna as a supplement to pay TV. Close to 50 percent of the 114 million TV-watching households are using an antenna"



Warren

So how do they know that 50% of the 114 million TV watching households are really using an antenna? The only ones who track TV viewing in mass are Nielsen. Do they produce any data that substantiates the claim made?

I bought 2 of the digital TV converters. They are still in unopened boxes never once used.

I am counted as a USA HH that has a camcorder. Haven't used it in years. The same for a 35mm SLR camera. And headphones. And a fish tank. And Scuba diving equipment. All are in my closet to name just a few.
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So how do they know that 50% of the 114 million TV watching households are really using an antenna? The only ones who track TV viewing in mass are Nielsen. Do they produce any data that substantiates the claim made?

I bought 2 of the digital TV converters. They are still in unopened boxes never once used.

I am counted as a USA HH that has a camcorder. Haven't used it in years. The same for a 35mm SLR camera. And headphones. And a fish tank. And Scuba diving equipment. All are in my closet to name just a few.

Lee,
What size is your fish tank?
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Lee,
What size is your fish tank?
Ghpr13

5 gallons. It's sitting right next to a brand new, never been used, purchased in November 2005, 3600 watt gasoline generator. Bought that right after the October 2005 Hurricane Katrina fiascio when I lived in Ft. Lauderdale and lost power for 2 weeks.
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5 gallons. It's sitting right next to a brand new, never been used, purchased in November 2005, 3600 watt gasoline generator. Bought that right after the October 2005 Hurricane Katrina fiascio when I lived in Ft. Lauderdale and lost power for 2 weeks.

Lee,

Be glad you don't live up north like we do - that freak nor'easter still has tens of thousands without power at all and caused more havoc in the area than Irene did - or Irene's brother "Lee" a few weeks later . My brother's cable, phone and internet are still out but I told him to consider himself lucky that's all it is.
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Just read up more about this type of technology which could possibly serve as a short-term solution for those who want 3D but don't yet want or need to purchase a monitor for the 3D feature.

Do remember it being used for a super bowl commercial but does anyone think it has a chance to make it as a bonifide pay-per-view or flat fee service as the company proposes? Think the CE industry would be amiable for such a service in the short-term or see it as a threat slowing down eventual monitor purchases and disc players since it seems it can also be used with standard dvds and bluray?

http://www.3dfocus.co.uk/3d-news-2/3...e-and-now/6106
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The just announced the new movie, shot in 3D, "HUGO". They are toting it as the next Avatar-like 3D movie. Initial reviews said the 3D is on-par with that of Avatar and it is expected to be the highest grossing 3D movie of 2011.

It was directed by Martin Scorsese.

3D dead? I don't think so...
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The just announced the new movie, shot in 3D, "HUGO". They are toting it as the next Avatar-like 3D movie. Initial reviews said the 3D is on-par with that of Avatar and it is expected to be the highest grossing 3D movie of 2011.

It was directed by Martin Scorsese.

3D dead? I don't think so...

+1

I saw some info on that as well yesterday
Looks like another major studio investment from what I could see.
November 23rd release date
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970179/

and on another note..I watched a demo of brand new 3D LED the other day that I thought was pretty spectacular at Magnolia Home Theater(Best Buy)
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...and-70-inches/

A salesguy that I know there, and have bought a few things from, said they have already sold two units...and currently they are being sold at MSRP in their stores

Normally..I am a Plasma guy...but this won could make me change my mind on what I think the best technology is

so let me think here...
Major studio blockbusters and cutting edge TV both continue to be released

what could that mean?..


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So how do they know that 50% of the 114 million TV watching households are really using an antenna? The only ones who track TV viewing in mass are Nielsen. Do they produce any data that substantiates the claim made?

I bought 2 of the digital TV converters. They are still in unopened boxes never once used.

I am counted as a USA HH that has a camcorder. Haven't used it in years. The same for a 35mm SLR camera. And headphones. And a fish tank. And Scuba diving equipment. All are in my closet to name just a few.

You got me on that..I have no idea

I too have a few boneyard electronics that haven't been used in a while

The old VCR/DVD recorder comes to mind...I have a DVD recorder as well

They both upconvert
However..lipstick on a pig is still a pig
Needless to say watching blu ray has converted me..and the fact that the DVR will record in HD has killed those two for me

I also notice in the stores...the DVD recorder..as well as the DVD player perhaps going the way of the dinosaur

Best Buy will have perhaps 2 DVD players and 2 DVD recorders...and about 35 different blu ray players on display

Any one know when the blu ray recorder will be hitting North America?

I know Panasonic and Sony have released their units in Asia as well as the UK I believe

My understanding is that they were still negotiating with the studios for release in the US

I don't believe you can get the new lossless audio codecs..however I can deal with legacy DD to get an HD video recording

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Is anyone prefer passive over active 3D?

it seems to have its fan base that is growing...and one can say that the apparatus that you have to use ..ie..the glasses are way more economical and you can use the one you get at the theater/IMAX

I am more a fan of active as I think it presents a sharper picture..to my eyes

I took the time to do a 10 minute LG passive 3D demo the other day

Long story short..I could live with it, but I still prefer the active version

Oh..and I think I was asked earlier in this thread....I will paraphrase..
.".is there really any difference in 3D in a theater and 3D in your home"..in response to a question I asked them about 3D in their home viewing environment

As I replied..yes there is and that is one them that makes the theater and home viewing experience different

LG has both available...and perhaps Vizio as well?

Sony, Samsung , Panasonic are on the 100% active 3D bandwagon

If this glassless 3D is every ready for prime time...My assumption will be that it will look like passive 3D

Another assumption is that when the 3rd tier brand 3D capable Tv's roll out in 2012 they will have passive rather than active 3D

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Is anyone prefer passive over active 3D?

it seems to have its fan base that is growing...and one can say that the apparatus that you have to use ..ie..the glasses are way more economical and you can use the one you get at the theater/IMAX

I am more a fan of active as I think it presents a sharper picture..to my eyes

The Mitsubishi DLP I have is active 3D technology.
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Is anyone prefer passive over active 3D?

it seems to have its fan base that is growing...and one can say that the apparatus that you have to use ..ie..the glasses are way more economical and you can use the one you get at the theater/IMAX

You can only use the ones you get from a RealD 3D theater because they use circular polarization. IMAX uses linear polarization and they will not work with the LG/Vizio passive glasses 3DTVs which also use circular polarization.

Quote:
If this glassless 3D is every ready for prime time...My assumption will be that it will look like passive 3D

It won't. Take a look at the Nintendo 3DS. That is what autostereoscopic 3D looks like and it leaves a lot to be desired when compared to glasses based 3D (active or passive)

Quote:
Another assumption is that when the 3rd tier brand 3D capable Tv's roll out in 2012 they will have passive rather than active 3D

Warren

It depends on where they source their panel from. Film Pattern Retarder (passive) is a special process that is done during panel manufaturing. Not that many panel manufacturers offer it. Active glasses based 3DTVs are again nothing more then a standard HDTV with a few cheap electronics added which can be done in the assembly process. No special manufacturing needed. No extra royalties paid.
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post #2189 of 2615 Old 11-03-2011, 03:02 PM
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It depends on where they source their panel from. Film Pattern Retarder (passive) is a special process that is done during panel manufaturing. Not that many panel manufacturers offer it. Active glasses based 3DTVs are again nothing more then a standard HDTV with a few cheap electronics added which can be done in the assembly process. No special manufacturing needed. No extra royalties paid.

I really never thought it cost them much( if anything more) to make 3D capability

As for the sourcing of panels...I know that...as of last year anyway...Vizio and LG shared the same panels on their higher end TV's
Or should I say Vizio used LG panels..more correctly said

I know that LG..in the past....has made( or provided the parts for but perhaps not assembled) Best Buys Insignia brand
The way that there current Insignia plasma TV's are Samsung Tv's minus some frills

It wouldn't surprise me in 2012....if they come out with an Insignia branded TV that is a rebadged LG...perhaps minus a few frills such as the apps platform etc...with passive 3D
They have the 3D capable BB branded blu ray player. The Tv can't be far behind

The passive glasses are an insignificant cost compared to the actives ones
That would have to tie in more with a 3rd tier( house brand ) TV

If you lose a little resolution/sharpness) in the process of the passive 3D...which is what I see with my eyes

I am sure the buyer of that TV will be just fine with that

Back to the cost of manufacturing
I wonder if passive 3D panels are the same cost to manufacture as active ones?
Its seems active 3D TV's are a little more expensive...using LG models as the litmus test

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post #2190 of 2615 Old 11-03-2011, 03:07 PM
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It won't. Take a look at the Nintendo 3DS. That is what autostereoscopic 3D looks like and it leaves a lot to be desired when compared to glasses based 3D (active or passive)


are you certain they won't improve the process?
There was a rumor last year that Toshiba had a prototype...but they were working on the quality of the image and trying to lower the cost
It never made it to prime time

Kinda like that Vizio 72" panel ....they showed it at CES and it never made it to market

Sharp has beat them to the punch on the large panels
Though the quality of their non-elite models leaves a little to be desired

Funny how a mediocre picture looks even worse on a 70" screen
That new Elite branded model is a world of difference..though it twice the price for the same size TV

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