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View Poll Results: How many speakers do you think are needed for home surround sound?
5.1 - L,C,R,LS,RS - SUB 0 0%
7.1 - L,C,R,LS,RS,LR,RR - SUB 0 0%
9.1 - L,C,R,LS1,RS1,LS2,RS2,LR,RR - SUB 0 0%
11.1 - L,C,R,LW,RW,LH,RH,LS,RS,LR,RR - SUB 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

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post #481 of 496 Old 06-30-2013, 11:07 PM
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Give it a break, and start a new thread if this seems to trouble you so much. Nobody else here seems to care and its off topic. Move along.


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..
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post #482 of 496 Old 06-30-2013, 11:11 PM
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^^ Physician, heal thyself.

Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #483 of 496 Old 06-30-2013, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Nobody else here cares and its off topic.
You care, since you're still posting a link to their press release.
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Move along.
Set the example.

Sanjay
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post #484 of 496 Old 07-04-2013, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post


P.S. On a side note, if you are suggesting, in what I've quoted you on, that the newer digital cinemas, playing a digital movie [as opposed to 35mm film] are fundamentally incapable of delivering SDDS to the movie audience for technical reasons, under any circumstances, I believe you are wrong.

No I wasn't suggesting anything else - just stating what I actually wrote

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post #485 of 496 Old 07-04-2013, 10:55 AM
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I added a second sub not long ago, but IMO this is still 7.1. I think this practice of using "N.n" to designate speakers rather than channels ruins a perfectly good nomenclature without replacing it with something even as good.

Five discrete channels plus an LFE channel equals 5.1. Adding a second sub does not add a second LFE channel, no matter what the industry tries to sell us. It's 5.1 with dual subs.

I can buy the argument that an AVR that synthesizes height or width channels could be considered 9.1 or 11.1. But until there is stereo LFE or something similar, there is no such thing as ".2."

(I know that this ship has sailed and my rant will gain no traction here. But it will be worth it if it at least gets a few newcomers to multichannel to at least stop and think for a moment about what the labels are actually supposed to mean.)

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post #486 of 496 Old 07-04-2013, 11:05 AM
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^I agree with the gist of what you wrote, however an AVR that has separate level and phase (delay) controls for the two, distinct sub outs has advantages for some people, compared to simply splitting a single output with a Y-cord (or AVRs with 2 identical sub outs), so having some sort of designation for which AVRs do that separate processing can be useful for some.

 

[I'm not saying I support the use of the term ".2" to denote this, however, because of all the same good points you made. It certainly would be expected to confuse many people for very good reasons.]


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..
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post #487 of 496 Old 07-04-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

^I agree with the gist of what you wrote, however an AVR that has separate level and phase (delay) controls for the two, distinct sub outs has advantages for some people, compared to simply splitting a single output with a Y-cord (or AVRs with 2 identical sub outs), so having some sort of designation for which AVRs do that separate processing can be useful for some.

No disputing the usefulness of the feature. I wish my AVR had it, and my next AVR upgrade will be required to directly support multiple subs. But if it supported four subs plus heights and wides, would it be 11.4? I don't think so. rolleyes.gif

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post #488 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 12:34 PM
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It really depends on how detailed you want your Surround Sound setup to be. The 5.1 Speaker setup was the Dolby Original Standard, but as professionals and consumers alike have pushed for "Bigger and Better" sound. You see the difference between the number of speakers depends on how define you want your Sound image to be. The more speakers added, the more space will be filled in giving you a more defined layout of the sound. As you know 5.1 configures a Left, Center, Right, Back Left, Back Right, and a sub. the 7.1 configuration has the same speakers but now includes side left and side right speakers which helps define the space even more than the 5.1 and so on. So the higher you speaker count (when placed correctly) the more defined your sound will be in that room. My suggestion to you is that you decide on how much definition you need for your area and setup what sounds good for the application that you need it for.

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post #489 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanveers View Post

It really depends on how detailed you want your Surround Sound setup to be. The 5.1 Speaker setup was the Dolby Original Standard, but as professionals and consumers alike have pushed for "Bigger and Better" sound. You see the difference between the number of speakers depends on how define you want your Sound image to be. The more speakers added, the more space will be filled in giving you a more defined layout of the sound. As you know 5.1 configures a Left, Center, Right, Back Left, Back Right, and a sub. the 7.1 configuration has the same speakers but now includes side left and side right speakers which helps define the space even more than the 5.1 and so on. So the higher you speaker count (when placed correctly) the more defined your sound will be in that room. My suggestion to you is that you decide on how much definition you need for your area and setup what sounds good for the application that you need it for.

Ben
Lead Tech, AA Rental

Rear surrounds don't come into the mix until you get to 7.1 - the surrounds in 5.1 are side speakers, regardless of what equipment manuals show in their diagrams.

Look at the pairs of surrounds marching down the side walls in movie theaters - that's classic 5.1, and what most movies are mixed for.

Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1. When I set my 5.1 system up, with speakers in the back - following the diagrams in the manuals, and levels calibrated with a sound pressure level meter - I found myself constantly walking over to the rear speakers to see if they were even on!

Only after a more experienced commenter at this site pointed out that the surrounds in 5.1 are supposed to be to the sides, not in the back, and I moved mine, did I get the benefit of surround sound.

Don't waste your money on rear channels, unless money means nothing to you.

If you do, you'll also want to ignore the level meter and turn the rears up to where you can actually hear them.

As far as sonic accuracy goes, "That's glory for you!" [as Humpty Dumpty would say]

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post #490 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 03:07 PM
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I've never gone past 5.1 personally. I simply don't believe more than that is necessary to provide an enveloping movie environment. I think most the technology beyond 5.1 is merely the industry finding new ways to sell more stuff. For me state of the art isn't critical. I'm just in it for a little entertainment.
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post #491 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1.
The purpose is to use 4 surround speakers to provide more stable rear-vs-side imaging and greater wrap-around envelopment than 2 surrounds are capable of delivering. One pair of speakers can't be in two locations (at your sides AND behind you) simultaneously. With that in mind, around the mid-to-late 1980s, surround processing manufacturers started selling 7.1-channel pre-pros to consumers, with the idea that 2 surround speakers weren't enough to create an entire surround field.

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post #492 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tanveers View Post

. As you know 5.1 configures a Left, Center, Right, Back Left, Back Right, and a sub. the 7.1 configuration has the same speakers but now includes side left and side right speakers which helps define the space even more than the 5.1 and so on.

That's incorrect. It's the rear surrounds that are added in 7.1; the surround channels have always been intended for placement to the sides, perhaps a bit behind the listening position, and aimed in towards the listeners.

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post #493 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 04:37 PM
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Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1.

The shape of the ear may serve to concentrate sound emanating from the front, but that hardly means we can't hear and localize sounds from all directions quite well. We hear with our brains,, which has quite a lot of processing power.

Have you ever played in an orchestra, or discussed this topic with someone who has? Human hearing is capable of extreme subtlety when it comes to discerning locational cues.

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post #494 of 496 Old 09-03-2013, 05:05 PM
 
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well I guess you could have 100.1

If you use piezo buzzers as speakers, like the ones in mobile phones.
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post #495 of 496 Old 09-07-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by AVS Press View Post
POLL ON SURROUND SOUND FOR AVS FORUM MEMBERS....

In regards to surround sound, we have heard rumors that 11.1 seems to be the new number coming down the pipe by years end. As such we wanted to ask the AVS Forum members, how many speakers do you think really is needed in the home for surround sound?

As it is now, we have 7.1 that covers Left (L), Center (C), Right (R), Left Surround (LS), Right Surround (RS), Left Rear (LR) and Right Rear (RR), SUB. The 4 extra channels would add, from what we understand, Left Front Wide (LW), Right Front Wide (RW), Left Front Height (LH), and Right Front Height (RH).

Please be so kind to vote in the poll and feel free to leave your thoughts and comments on the topic of how many speakers you think are needed in home surround sound. (We know configurations can be differnt for differnt people. Thus is a general poll on set # of speakers/channels on how many YOU think are needed.)
.
It would be good to re-create this poll and include the new Immersive Audio (ATMOS, DTS:X and AURO) speaker options.

Opinions are not facts.
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post #496 of 496 Old 09-13-2015, 12:06 PM
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Partial retraction

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Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

. . .
Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1.
Well, in order to get DD+ from Amazon Prime, I finally got a modern HDMI-capable AVR, which was 7.1. Had an extra pair of small bookshelf speakers available, so I set those up as rears.

Now that the studios have routinely started to use 7.1 tracks on Blu-rays, it's interesting to hear sounds localized in the rear - so I'll retreat from saying they serve no purpose, but I was right about one thing:

Quote:
. . . If you do, you'll also want to ignore the level meter and turn the rears up to where you can actually hear them.
. . .
After running YPAO on my new receiver (Yamaha's answer to Audessy) I found that to make the rear speakers audible, I had to use the test tone in the post-YPAO screen to add a few db to the rears to make them sound as loud as the other 5 mains when I'm facing forward, since the auto-setup doesn't take account of the shape of our ears, which have pinnae that attenuate sound from the rear.

I'm not a believer in synthesizing extra channels so I've set my AVR so that when the material is 5.1, the rears play the same thing as the sides, like in a movie theater, where you're bathed in a whole wall of side surrounds, marching down the theater in matched pairs.

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