Surround Sound - How many speakers needed? - Page 17 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: How many speakers do you think are needed for home surround sound?
5.1 - L,C,R,LS,RS - SUB 0 0%
7.1 - L,C,R,LS,RS,LR,RR - SUB 0 0%
9.1 - L,C,R,LS1,RS1,LS2,RS2,LR,RR - SUB 0 0%
11.1 - L,C,R,LW,RW,LH,RH,LS,RS,LR,RR - SUB 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #481 of 494 Old 06-30-2013, 10:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 100

Give it a break, and start a new thread if this seems to trouble you so much. Nobody else here seems to care and its off topic. Move along.


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

m. zillch is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #482 of 494 Old 06-30-2013, 10:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 146
^^ Physician, heal thyself.
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #483 of 494 Old 06-30-2013, 10:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 18,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Nobody else here cares and its off topic.
You care, since you're still posting a link to their press release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Move along.
Set the example.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #484 of 494 Old 07-04-2013, 01:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dougofthenorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post


P.S. On a side note, if you are suggesting, in what I've quoted you on, that the newer digital cinemas, playing a digital movie [as opposed to 35mm film] are fundamentally incapable of delivering SDDS to the movie audience for technical reasons, under any circumstances, I believe you are wrong.

No I wasn't suggesting anything else - just stating what I actually wrote

------------------------
Regards,

Dougofthenorth

Save turtles:
http://www.turtleshelltortue.org
Dougofthenorth is offline  
post #485 of 494 Old 07-04-2013, 09:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 177
I added a second sub not long ago, but IMO this is still 7.1. I think this practice of using "N.n" to designate speakers rather than channels ruins a perfectly good nomenclature without replacing it with something even as good.

Five discrete channels plus an LFE channel equals 5.1. Adding a second sub does not add a second LFE channel, no matter what the industry tries to sell us. It's 5.1 with dual subs.

I can buy the argument that an AVR that synthesizes height or width channels could be considered 9.1 or 11.1. But until there is stereo LFE or something similar, there is no such thing as ".2."

(I know that this ship has sailed and my rant will gain no traction here. But it will be worth it if it at least gets a few newcomers to multichannel to at least stop and think for a moment about what the labels are actually supposed to mean.)

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #486 of 494 Old 07-04-2013, 10:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 100

^I agree with the gist of what you wrote, however an AVR that has separate level and phase (delay) controls for the two, distinct sub outs has advantages for some people, compared to simply splitting a single output with a Y-cord (or AVRs with 2 identical sub outs), so having some sort of designation for which AVRs do that separate processing can be useful for some.

 

[I'm not saying I support the use of the term ".2" to denote this, however, because of all the same good points you made. It certainly would be expected to confuse many people for very good reasons.]


In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

m. zillch is online now  
post #487 of 494 Old 07-04-2013, 02:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

^I agree with the gist of what you wrote, however an AVR that has separate level and phase (delay) controls for the two, distinct sub outs has advantages for some people, compared to simply splitting a single output with a Y-cord (or AVRs with 2 identical sub outs), so having some sort of designation for which AVRs do that separate processing can be useful for some.

No disputing the usefulness of the feature. I wish my AVR had it, and my next AVR upgrade will be required to directly support multiple subs. But if it supported four subs plus heights and wides, would it be 11.4? I don't think so. rolleyes.gif

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #488 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 11:34 AM
Member
 
tanveers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
It really depends on how detailed you want your Surround Sound setup to be. The 5.1 Speaker setup was the Dolby Original Standard, but as professionals and consumers alike have pushed for "Bigger and Better" sound. You see the difference between the number of speakers depends on how define you want your Sound image to be. The more speakers added, the more space will be filled in giving you a more defined layout of the sound. As you know 5.1 configures a Left, Center, Right, Back Left, Back Right, and a sub. the 7.1 configuration has the same speakers but now includes side left and side right speakers which helps define the space even more than the 5.1 and so on. So the higher you speaker count (when placed correctly) the more defined your sound will be in that room. My suggestion to you is that you decide on how much definition you need for your area and setup what sounds good for the application that you need it for.

Ben
Lead Tech, AA Rental
tanveers is offline  
post #489 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 01:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Philnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanveers View Post

It really depends on how detailed you want your Surround Sound setup to be. The 5.1 Speaker setup was the Dolby Original Standard, but as professionals and consumers alike have pushed for "Bigger and Better" sound. You see the difference between the number of speakers depends on how define you want your Sound image to be. The more speakers added, the more space will be filled in giving you a more defined layout of the sound. As you know 5.1 configures a Left, Center, Right, Back Left, Back Right, and a sub. the 7.1 configuration has the same speakers but now includes side left and side right speakers which helps define the space even more than the 5.1 and so on. So the higher you speaker count (when placed correctly) the more defined your sound will be in that room. My suggestion to you is that you decide on how much definition you need for your area and setup what sounds good for the application that you need it for.

Ben
Lead Tech, AA Rental

Rear surrounds don't come into the mix until you get to 7.1 - the surrounds in 5.1 are side speakers, regardless of what equipment manuals show in their diagrams.

Look at the pairs of surrounds marching down the side walls in movie theaters - that's classic 5.1, and what most movies are mixed for.

Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1. When I set my 5.1 system up, with speakers in the back - following the diagrams in the manuals, and levels calibrated with a sound pressure level meter - I found myself constantly walking over to the rear speakers to see if they were even on!

Only after a more experienced commenter at this site pointed out that the surrounds in 5.1 are supposed to be to the sides, not in the back, and I moved mine, did I get the benefit of surround sound.

Don't waste your money on rear channels, unless money means nothing to you.

If you do, you'll also want to ignore the level meter and turn the rears up to where you can actually hear them.

As far as sonic accuracy goes, "That's glory for you!" [as Humpty Dumpty would say]

Philnick is offline  
post #490 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 02:07 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 617
I've never gone past 5.1 personally. I simply don't believe more than that is necessary to provide an enveloping movie environment. I think most the technology beyond 5.1 is merely the industry finding new ways to sell more stuff. For me state of the art isn't critical. I'm just in it for a little entertainment.
FMW is online now  
post #491 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 02:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 18,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1.
The purpose is to use 4 surround speakers to provide more stable rear-vs-side imaging and greater wrap-around envelopment than 2 surrounds are capable of delivering. One pair of speakers can't be in two locations (at your sides AND behind you) simultaneously. With that in mind, around the mid-to-late 1980s, surround processing manufacturers started selling 7.1-channel pre-pros to consumers, with the idea that 2 surround speakers weren't enough to create an entire surround field.

Sanjay
sdurani is online now  
post #492 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 03:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanveers View Post

. As you know 5.1 configures a Left, Center, Right, Back Left, Back Right, and a sub. the 7.1 configuration has the same speakers but now includes side left and side right speakers which helps define the space even more than the 5.1 and so on.

That's incorrect. It's the rear surrounds that are added in 7.1; the surround channels have always been intended for placement to the sides, perhaps a bit behind the listening position, and aimed in towards the listeners.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #493 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 03:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post


Personally, given how the pinnae of the ears (the forward-pointing fleshy ear trumpets that focus our hearing) filter out sound from the rear, I don't see the purpose in 7.1.

The shape of the ear may serve to concentrate sound emanating from the front, but that hardly means we can't hear and localize sounds from all directions quite well. We hear with our brains,, which has quite a lot of processing power.

Have you ever played in an orchestra, or discussed this topic with someone who has? Human hearing is capable of extreme subtlety when it comes to discerning locational cues.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #494 of 494 Old 09-03-2013, 04:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked: 122
well I guess you could have 100.1

If you use piezo buzzers as speakers, like the ones in mobile phones.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is online now  
Reply Community News & Polls

Tags
Surround Sound Speaker Placement , Polls

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off