Ok...Holidays are now over, so, how about 3D now? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:25 PM
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3DTV via OTA is a problem. The networks are going to have to once again add costly hardware with no gain in revenue. They went through this with HDTV not that long ago. The CEMs had to sponsor TV shows in HD to help them offset the cost of upgrading - something they don't do on a regular basis.

Producing 3D TV content today is very costly because you need two of everything. They went through this also with the transition to HDTV until they figured out how to have one of everything (HD) and downconvert to SD as needed. If they can't do this with 3D (down convert to HD and SD) we probably won't see any 3D TV coming from OTA.

IMO, the success of 3DTV will not depend on OTA (nor 3D BD for that matter.) CBL/SA/TELCO will be able to sustain it.

The recording of 3D automatically produces two 2D sources. Transmitting the 3D data can be done in SBS, which would require little to no new equipment. The issue is in the broadcasting - there is currently no way to broadcast the 2D and 3D stream on the same channel so you need dedicated channels for 3D and 2D which they just don't have the bandwidth for.
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post #272 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:25 PM
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This is where I got my information from:

Germany Boasts Good 3D TV sales

http://www.today3d.com/search?update...max-results=15

Lee, sorry how this sounds...

Don't you think that site might be a wee bit bias? Beware of propaganda and "us vs them" rhetoric.
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post #273 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:28 PM
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Lee, sorry how this sounds...

Don't you think that site might be a wee bit bias? Beware of propaganda and "us vs them" rhetoric.

He did provide a link with some numbers though. It just isn't reality of daily life in Germany. 4 HD Channels and no major HD improvements on the cable in sight. The European lifestyle isn't so much about TV as the US lifestyle. Sure people enjoy a good movie. But an american household watched 150% more TV then a European. That number is entirely made up by me and solely based on experience. Anyway. Derailing it a bit here.
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post #274 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:28 PM
 
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Economics + 2D HD saturation = at least a slow adoption rate. I am sure Japan has the same recession woes we have; if not worse.

Nope.

Bank of Japan Members Warn Against Optimism on U.S. Economy

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...s-economy.html
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post #275 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:28 PM
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It is a solid link to info I give you that. I guess those 4 HDTV channels will be watched a ton more this year. lol

Wow, a whole 178k people. That is AMAZING! lol

That is how many people in my small, yet geographically large county has in it combined.
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post #276 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:29 PM
 
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Lee, sorry how this sounds...

Don't you think that site might be a wee bit bias? Beware of propaganda and "us vs them" rhetoric.

No problem. Show me a link that says different.
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post #277 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:33 PM
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Nope.

Bank of Japan Members Warn Against Optimism on U.S. Economy

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...s-economy.html

Well they did have a recession at least. Maybe they are smarter than us in not buying things they don't need right now.

I see a 15% decline in Japan at the peak of the recession. That is pretty considerable.

Since you are throwing around links...

http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossd..._Recession.htm
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post #278 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by poppabk View Post

The recording of 3D automatically produces two 2D sources. Transmitting the 3D data can be done in SBS, which would require little to no new equipment. The issue is in the broadcasting - there is currently no way to broadcast the 2D and 3D stream on the same channel so you need dedicated channels for 3D and 2D which they just don't have the bandwidth for.

LOL - well . . . that's part of the problem isn't it?

Italy is the First With a Backwards Compatible 3D Broadcast

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-ne...broadcast.html

3D Tile Format – how it works (OTA 3D broadcast)

http://www.etcenter.org/2010/12/3d-t...-3d-broadcast/
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post #279 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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Bwana Devil was released 30 November 1952 (USA) Some big name stars too:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044462/

House of Wax was released 25 April 1953 (USA)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045888/

I am well aware of release dates thank you. Bwana Devil was nothing more than an exploitational film and was not released by a major studio. You should try watching Bwana Devil some time, it stinks.
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post #280 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:42 PM
 
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Well they did have a recession at least. Maybe they are smarter than us in not buying things they don't need right now.

I see a 15% decline in Japan at the peak of the recession. That is pretty considerable.

Since you are throwing around links...

http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossd..._Recession.htm

More towards the topic at hand:

Global LCD TV Market to Grow 31% in 2010, Slowing to 13% in 2011

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SANTA CLARA, CA, January 3, 2011According to the latest DisplaySearch Quarterly Advanced Global TV Shipment and Forecast Report, total TV shipments in 2010 will reach more than 247 million units, a staggering 17% increase from 2009 and the best growth seen since the start of the flat panel TV transition. This comes despite a very slow recovery from the Great Recession of 2008-2009, and weakness in regions like North America reflecting continued caution on the part of some developed market consumers. Innovations like 3D were introduced to capture consumers' attention and drive strong growth in 2010, but sales of 3D TVs will likely disappoint many brands and retailers at around 3 million units worldwide.

North America continues to be a tough market for TV sales, with total TV shipments rising just 0.4% year over year through the first three quarters of 2010, noted Paul Gagnon, Director of North America TV Research for DisplaySearch. As unemployment remains high and consumers remain sensitive to price, budget-conscious consumers have been surprised by limited price declines, partially influenced by a much stronger mix of advanced TV technologies introduced this year like LED backlights, 3D, and internet connectivity which offset any price declines, continued Gagnon. Average TV prices in North America are only expected to fall 6% Y/Y in 2010 compared with a 22% decline in 2009.

http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde...13_in_2011.asp
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post #281 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:45 PM
 
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I am well aware of release dates thank you. Bwana Devil was nothing more than an exploitational film and was not released by a major studio. You should try watching Bwana Devil some time, it stinks.

But it was the first of the 1950's 3D movies.

The last one was Revenge of the Creature in 1955. Just 3 short years.

The new rebirth of 3D started in 2005. We are now in it's 6th year with no end in sight.
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post #282 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 12:55 PM
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More towards the topic at hand:

Global LCD TV Market to Grow 31% in 2010, Slowing to 13% in 2011

http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde...13_in_2011.asp

Now there is a very informative link. Poor CRT...lol
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post #283 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:04 PM
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But we simply cannot wait for tennis in 3D, since the US Open Finals were available in 3D last year, before we had ours.

Don't set your hopes too high. Tennis has been one of the most disappointing 3D sports presentations I've seen so far. Boxing looks great, golf looks great, football looks great (if they can keep the first down yardage pole and sideline people out of the shot), basketball looks great, but watching the Australian open it was difficult to even perceive the 3D effect most of the time. YMMV.
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post #284 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:04 PM
 
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But it was the first of the 1950's 3D movies.

The last one was Revenge of the Creature in 1955. Just 3 short years.

The new rebirth of 3D started in 2005. We are now in it's 6th year with no end in sight.

Good Luck
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post #285 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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Good Luck

Thanks!

BTW, did you know that LUCK is an Acronym?

Stands for; Limited Use of Correct Knowledge

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post #286 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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Thanks!

BTW, did you know that LUCK is an Acronym?

Stands for; Limited Use of Correct Knowledge


You sir, are quite erudite.
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post #287 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:16 PM
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LOL - David, AFAIK, very few people were exposed to 3D VHD. It wasn't a big hit.

Anaglyph 3D has been in the consumer home video market for years. Both on "broadcast" TV and OD (DVD and BD)

Just because only a few people were exposed to 3D VHD doesn't make anaglyph is the previous technology to the current shutter glasses.

The strangest thing is that since the '80s, companies are still forcing people to use shutter glasses and only starting this year it moves to circular polarizer glasses (which, again, have been use in various production houses for many years).

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post #288 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:22 PM
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Here to stay for these reasons...

#1. All HDTV manufacturers are incorporating 3D
#2. Many People will use 3D if they already have it in their new HDTV
#3. Movies are incorporating 3D like never before
#4. Most children movies are in 3D now, and that will influence the future
#5. More and more games will be going 3D

+1 Here to stay.

Since it's included on almost every new display and more PJs, it's up to the consumer to make the call. It's just another option, like buying BD over DVD at this point. Even the content is including all options, along with digital copy. As long as Hollywood keeps making 3D movies, the content will be there. Even the broadband carriers (like DirecTV) are carrying 3D. It's a slow start like HD was, but it's a start.

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post #289 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:23 PM
 
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Just because only a few people were exposed to 3D VHD doesn't make anaglyph is the previous technology to the current shutter glasses.

The strangest thing is that since the '80s, companies are still forcing people to use shutter glasses and only starting this year it moves to circular polarizer glasses (which, again, have been use in various production houses for many years).

Your theatre and picture quality look absolutely gorgeous.
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post #290 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:23 PM
 
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You sir, are quite erudite.

Why thank you.

Had to look that one up
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post #291 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:26 PM
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That is NOT a true statement. In 2009, they released 31 3D movies. 8 of them were 2D to 3D conversions. In 2011 there will be more 3D movies released and only 7 of them will be 2D to 3D comversions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1237092


There were 31 3D features, but not all of them are movies. Too many of them are IMAX, which can't be considered as "movie". They are watered down documentaries, at best. CGI don't count. When I wrote "movie", I mean live-action full-length movies. Only 8 live action movie that's actually shot in 3D and with some of them, they are heavily CGI-ed movies which still hall into the CGI territory (including Avatar, actually)

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post #292 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:30 PM
 
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Just because only a few people were exposed to 3D VHD doesn't make anaglyph is the previous technology to the current shutter glasses.

Well, here in the USA it does. I don't think 3D VHD was ever released here in the USA. Just a year ago, Comcast was offering both the Hanna Montana 3D movie and the Jonas Brothers 3D movie on PPV - both were Anaglyph. And there are a number of anaglyph 3D releases on both DVD and BD:

http://www.3dmovielist.com/list.html

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The strangest thing is that since the '80s, companies are still forcing people to use shutter glasses and only starting this year it moves to circular polarizer glasses (which, again, have been use in various production houses for many years).

Because LG figured out how to build them at resonable costs (FPR) and not have to license Xpol or Zalman technology. That just happened.
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post #293 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:33 PM
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Well, here in the USA it does. I don't think 3D VHD was ever released here in the USA. Just a year ago, Comcast was offering both the Hanna Montana 3D movie and the Jonas Brothers 3D movie on PPV - both were Anaglyph.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that VHD never came to North America.



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Because LG figured out how to build them at resonable costs (FPR) and not have to license Xpol or Zalman technology. That just happened.

LG just use AUO panels (co-developed by Sensio and AUO) just like Vizio, JVC and Philips.

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post #294 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:33 PM
 
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There were 31 3D features, but not all of them are movies. Too many of them are IMAX, which can't be considered as "movie". They are watered down documentaries, at best. CGI don't count. When I wrote "movie", I mean live-action full-length movies. Only 8 live action movie that's actually shot in 3D and with some of them, they are heavily CGI-ed movies which still hall into the CGI territory (including Avatar, actually)

Oh - OK - you want to use some kind of a sifting process to defend your statement.

BTW, last time I looked ALL those 31 features were presented in MOVIE theaters.
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post #295 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:38 PM
 
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Thanks for the info. I didn't know that VHD never came to North America.

LG just use AUO panels (co-developed by Sensio and AUO) just like Vizio, JVC and Philips.

AFAIK, JVC used a rebadged Hundai panel (46") which uses Xpol tech.

http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html

And I don't see any mention of AUO in this article about LG and FPR.

http://www.hitechreview.com/tv/fpr-3d-tv/29727/

Do you have a link I can look at?
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post #296 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:39 PM
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Oh - OK - you want to use some kind of a sifting process to defend your statement.

BTW, last time I looked ALL those 31 features were presented in MOVIE theaters.

Although IMAX is a Canadian company, here in Canada most of those IMAX features were only shown in OMNIMAX theatres (you know, the ones at Science Centre, NOT movie theatres) and they're only shown in 2D.

And no, IMAX have never been considered as movies. Even IMAX, as a company, never claim their features to be "movies". Movies can be shot in IMAX format and shown in IMAX theatres, but those 30-50 minutes features have never been considered as movies, hence they are in either "IMAX" section, "Documentary" section or "Special Interest" section at various stores, including Amazon, that sells BD/DVD.

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post #297 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

AFAIK, JVC used a rebadged Hundai panel (46") which uses Xpol tech.

http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html

And I don't see any mention of AUO in this article about LG and FPR.

http://www.hitechreview.com/tv/fpr-3d-tv/29727/

Do you have a link I can look at?

Just contact Sensio and AUO, that's what the press-relation people at Sensio/AUO booth told people during CES 2011.

PS: I also always thought that JVC use Hyundai panel until I was told otherwise by the Sensio/AUO people. Maybe Hyundai panel for the pro/broadcast and AUO for consumer? I don't know. I didn't get the chance to chat for too long @CES because I had to attend Certifi3D seminar at Technicolor.

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post #298 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:54 PM
 
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Although IMAX is a Canadian company, here in Canada most of those IMAX features were only shown in OMNIMAX theatres (you know, the ones at Science Centre, NOT movie theatres) and they're only shown in 2D.

Different here in the USA. We have 3 types of 15/70MM IMAX theaters:

IMAX 2D
IMAX 3D
IMAX Dome (aka OMNIMAX) 2D

Quote:


And no, IMAX have never been considered as movies. Even IMAX, as a company, never claim their features to be "movies". Movies can be shot in IMAX format and shown in IMAX theatres, but those 30-50 minutes features have never been considered as movies, hence they are in either "IMAX" section, "Documentary" section or "Special Interest" section at various stores, including Amazon, that sells BD/DVD.

OK. Millions have enjoyed them - whatever you want to call them.

Still a 3D production. Very popular on 3D BD. About the only 3D content getting released on 3D BD lately .
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post #299 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 01:58 PM
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Although IMAX is a Canadian company, here in Canada most of those IMAX features were only shown in OMNIMAX theatres (you know, the ones at Science Centre, NOT movie theatres) and they're only shown in 2D.

And no, IMAX have never been considered as movies. Even IMAX, as a company, never claim their features to be "movies". Movies can be shot in IMAX format and shown in IMAX theatres, but those 30-50 minutes features have never been considered as movies, hence they are in either "IMAX" section, "Documentary" section or "Special Interest" section at various stores, including Amazon, that sells BD/DVD.

Only IMAX I ever knew of or went for a showing was at the science center in Orlando. It was a documentary and not 3d. It did make me feel like I was flying though. lol

I agree IMAX should not be considered a movie and they are generally framed as documentaries.
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post #300 of 1824 Old 02-18-2011, 02:02 PM
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I hope it's clear to all of the 3D acolytes that most of the people that have no interest in 3D, feel this way because of the current need to affix hardware to one's body. It's not that, for myself anyway, I'm against the technology. Just the current delivery method.
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