Ok...Holidays are now over, so, how about 3D now? - Page 25 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: 3D TV - Is it a Fad?
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by twisted_oak View Post

I saw (old) in your nick and figured you would have some wisdom to impart on us based on experience. I don't trust anyone that I can't get past security and/or lawyers to have "access" to.

Seems people don't have the time to question any longer. It is almost like it is frowned upon to question. That to me is scarier than actually finding something dark...

No doubt it's important to question. I like to read the *warning* articles as well as those that critically examine and disagree with the same warnings. The "devil is in the details".

From what I've read so far, pro and con, the articles raising health concerns as well as the anecdotal stories of negative effects appear to raise at least a few valid concerns. On the other hand, there has been nothing close to a "smoking gun" or "smoking butt" so to speak comparable to cigarettes, nicotine and smoke filled lungs.

When a health *warning* is raised the question of degree of risk, severity and frequency of incident has to be considered. If the cell phone is indeed contributing to brain tumors for instance is it in 50% of people or .0050% ? Is it one of many factors or the sole factor? Can the potential risk be reduced or eliminated by smarter behavior such as lower hours of usage?

If 3DTV is a calculated risk to use at this point is it more like the cigarette smokers risk or more like the coffee drinker's risk? If the industry think it's more like the latter then it might explain why they open up Starbuck locations.

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Old 02-22-2011, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Fair enough. Pointing out Nintendo's impending widespread rollout of 3D I mean only to say that it is not only DreamWorks and the movie industry that apparently feels 3D is at least "safe enough" to be made available for greater use both for children and adults.

That of course doesn't mean they are right, neither does it mean that they are wrong. It does mean that major elements of the video game industry, electronics industry and movie industry have all made a determination on some relative level safety vs risk.

The same can be said of the tobacco industry, car industry, food industry, cell phone industry and many other industries where some level of health risk has been raised at some point or is well known to exist.

It's not so much being right or wrong but ignoring warnings or being indifferent due to it cutting into profits. No doubt there are leaders in industry who argue on the side of caution, however, too often their pleas of social responsibility has had little bearing on too many others in those board rooms until it becomes a matter of litigation.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by twisted_oak View Post

I share your cynicism. I would rather be wrong than right. It is better to err on the side of safety always.

Amen to that.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Amen to that.

I generally like to err on the side of safety however it is not always practical to eliminate all risks in advance. Consider for instance how many foods have health risks and warnings outstanding. The list seems updated daily.

The degree of risk comes into play. If a real "smoking gun" health risk is raised in connection with 3D viewing then the "FAD" prediction would likely be realized quickly. If on other hand very small numbers of people have what amounts to relatively minor negative effects which may be easily avoided then health issues will be negligible.

Perhaps the only way to find that out is with widespread usage anyway.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Ive heard time and time again that letting kids watch too much 2D TV will destroy their eyesight. You still hear that stuff to this day, and there's never been a reliable link between watching TV and bad eyesight that I've heard of.

It's not like you need to give a child LSD for them to experience 3D, just show their eyes two different images, like they see all day long anyway.

It does depend upon whom one hears that stuff from. Have often come across "accepted medical facts" which the medical field states are nothing more than fallacies (i.e., having to drink seven cups of water a day to improve one's health and appearance). Though what is being circulated around right now about possible health hazards caused by 3D could indeed be construed as myths created by society, that is rather doubtful because these concerns are coming from reliable individuals and professional medical organizations, not Brother Love's Traveling Salvation show. So it might be best to hold off letting a child experience 3D than be frivolous about it based on experiences with other fallacies.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

I generally like to err on the side of safety however it is not always practical to eliminate all risks in advance. Consider for instance how many foods have health risks and warnings outstanding. The list seems updated daily.

The degree of risk comes into play. If a real "smoking gun" health risk is raised in connection with 3D viewing then the "FAD" prediction would likely be realized quickly. If on other hand very small numbers of people have what amounts to relatively minor negative effects which may be easily avoided then health issues will be negligible.

Perhaps the only way to find that out is with widespread usage anyway.

You are of course right, there is absolutely no practical way one can eliminate most risks in advance. And the risks might very well be minimal, including 3D. Am sure we both hope the question is resolved with no harmful effects found after widespread usage rather than maladies created by that same widespread usage.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post


Here is the article so we can all read it:

Cell phone use affects brain activity after 50 minutes

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/303928

My only issue was his connect-the-dots speculation about 3D glasses.

Isn't one of the measurements of the strength of an electiical circuit amperage? The mA stands for milliamps. 1000 mA = 1 Amp.

Cellphone Battery = 930 mA

CR2025 Battery for 3D glasses = 0.2 mA

After watching 3D now since December I now see everything in 3D even without the glasses,will this phenomenon last forever?
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Here is the article so we can all read it:

Cell phone use affects brain activity after 50 minutes

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/303928

I am not sure how you would read this article but it's seem like a big heap of FUD:

Quote:


What the study shows is areas of the brain affected by cellphone radiation and increased glucose are those "involved in thinking, sensing and decision making, including repression of antisocial behavior.

Shocking ! that reveals that if you spend 50 minutes on a cell phone, the part of the brain involved in thinking, talking decision and being polite is getting more active !!
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:23 AM
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Call me when the projected 3D holo-matrix has arrived. Until then... fad.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:58 AM
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Last year, Sunny Ocean Studios claimed to have developed glasses-free 3D sets that could be seen at up to 64 different viewing angles without distortion. The company planned to introduce a 27 inch model at CeBit held last March in Hanover, Germany. In addition, according to the managing director: "We already possess the technology needed to quickly and inexpensively make large displays up to a size of 100-inch 3D capable".

http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/s...63&newsLang=en

If that was the case, why haven't we heard more about this, especially after Toshiba introduced it's highly critized glasses-free set months ago? Even Sunny Side doesn't have any further details on it's own website. Anybody have more up to date information?

http://www.sunny-ocean.com/news.html
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by twisted_oak View Post

I share your cynicism. I would rather be wrong than right. It is better to err on the side of safety always.

We live our lives in a perpetual state of danger and risk though. To always err on the side of safety would put you in the ground quicker than being reckless. Do you know what is in the water you drink? Are their any dangers of purifying water through an activated charcoal filter - activated charcoal administration can have acute side effects, so maybe a small amount leaking from a filter might also cause issues? Increases in hygiene have been linked to a wide range of auto-immune diseases - so being 'safe' can also have unintended negative consequences.

Its up to each individual to try and understand risk and evaluate what they consider tolerable. There is ample evidence, ie headphone use, that the risk associated with shutter glasses fro brain chemistry is minimal. As for viewing 3D it is less clear, its up to people to make their best assessment, I personally would be very surprised if any substantial side effects emerge.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Last year, Sunny Ocean Studios claimed to have developed glasses-free 3D sets that could be seen at up to 64 different viewing angles without distortion. The company planned to introduce a 27 inch model at CeBit held last March in Hanover, Germany. In addition, according to the managing director: "We already possess the technology needed to quickly and inexpensively make large displays up to a size of 100-inch 3D capable".

http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/s...63&newsLang=en

If that was the case, why haven't we heard more about this, especially after Toshiba introduced it's highly critized glasses-free set months ago? Even Sunny Side doesn't have any further details on it's own website. Anybody have more up to date information?

http://www.sunny-ocean.com/news.html

Common sense would tell you they're either completely full of it or theres some other catch that makes the technology completely undesirable, if it even exists. The company is probably hard up for capital so it's makes outrageous claims in order to attract investors or a suitable buyer for their tech.

Or it could be a conspiracy to cover it up and slowly dribble out improvements over the years.

Or, it could be alien technology, and releasing it would confirm their existence, so it must be covered up.

Or, it could be magic.

Lots of possibilities.

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Old 02-23-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by poppabk View Post

We live our lives in a perpetual state of danger and risk though. To always err on the side of safety would put you in the ground quicker than being reckless. Do you know what is in the water you drink? Are their any dangers of purifying water through an activated charcoal filter - activated charcoal administration can have acute side effects, so maybe a small amount leaking from a filter might also cause issues? Increases in hygiene have been linked to a wide range of auto-immune diseases - so being 'safe' can also have unintended negative consequences.

Its up to each individual to try and understand risk and evaluate what they consider tolerable. There is ample evidence, ie headphone use, that the risk associated with shutter glasses fro brain chemistry is minimal. As for viewing 3D it is less clear, its up to people to make their best assessment, I personally would be very surprised if any substantial side effects emerge.

To be quite honest, I agree with you and would be very surprised if any substantial side effects did emerge. However, because many in the medical field have stated that not enough time has been spent on independent research on a large scale, along with the bevavior of so many (not all) corporations, makes me an inherent skeptic. Of course, we all live in a perpetual state of danger but there are times like this when we can at least have some sort of personal control over it.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Common sense would tell you they're either completely full of it or theres some other catch that makes the technology completely undesirable, if it even exists. The company is probably hard up for capital so it's makes outrageous claims in order to attract investors or a suitable buyer for their tech.

Or it could be a conspiracy to cover it up and slowly dribble out improvements over the years.

Or, it could be alien technology, and releasing it would confirm their existence, so it must be covered up.

Or, it could be magic.

Lots of possibilities.

My thoughts, exactly. But I wonder what positive publicity could the company have expected if their demonstration was not what it was hyped to be both in terms of technology and actual cost effectiveness? This would only tarnish it's reputation, not enhance it.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamieb81 View Post

After watching 3D now since December I now see everything in 3D even without the glasses,will this phenomenon last forever?

Lol! Thank God, someone with a sense of humour AND an objective viewpoint!

Been sitting here looking at this whole conversation comparing watching 3D to celphones, smoking, drinking, food additives, sex and politics and was just shaking my head up to now
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:14 AM
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BTW - for those interested in knowing what issues with 3D can cause discomfort in viewing, Cineramax posted a very interesting graphic in one of his threads, here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20048994

It outlines some of the things that have been learned about what to avoid when producing 3D content for certification, and is from TechniColor's "Certifi3D" program.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Last year, Sunny Ocean Studios claimed to have developed glasses-free 3D sets that could be seen at up to 64 different viewing angles without distortion.

I'm guessing you can see the 3D set without distortion from 64 different viewing angles, but they're all from the rear. The distortion doesn't happen until you can see the screen.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:33 AM
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I'm guessing you can see the 3D set without distortion from 64 different viewing angles, but they're all from the rear. The distortion doesn't happen until you can see the screen.

And I can imagine the next big headline generated by that company being similar to what Elmer Fudd read when suddenly projected a half century in the future: "Smellovision Replaces Television" with the lead being "Roger Ebert Says It Won't Work".
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Last year, Sunny Ocean Studios claimed to have developed glasses-free 3D sets that could be seen at up to 64 different viewing angles without distortion. The company planned to introduce a 27 inch model at CeBit held last March in Hanover, Germany. In addition, according to the managing director: "We already possess the technology needed to quickly and inexpensively make large displays up to a size of 100-inch 3D capable".

http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/s...63&newsLang=en

If that was the case, why haven't we heard more about this, especially after Toshiba introduced it's highly critized glasses-free set months ago? Even Sunny Side doesn't have any further details on it's own website. Anybody have more up to date information?

http://www.sunny-ocean.com/news.html

Could be nothing more then a proof of concept. "See! We built one!" The fact that if it were commercialized, it would retail for $20,000 which wouldn't interest investors.

Just Google: Phillips+WOW
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by poppabk View Post

We live our lives in a perpetual state of danger and risk though. To always err on the side of safety would put you in the ground quicker than being reckless. Do you know what is in the water you drink? Are their any dangers of purifying water through an activated charcoal filter - activated charcoal administration can have acute side effects, so maybe a small amount leaking from a filter might also cause issues? Increases in hygiene have been linked to a wide range of auto-immune diseases - so being 'safe' can also have unintended negative consequences.

Its up to each individual to try and understand risk and evaluate what they consider tolerable. There is ample evidence, ie headphone use, that the risk associated with shutter glasses fro brain chemistry is minimal. As for viewing 3D it is less clear, its up to people to make their best assessment, I personally would be very surprised if any substantial side effects emerge.

I fully understand the risks in just breathing the air. I am not to that extreme. We are talking, I think, about the possible impact on those that can't think for themselves, children. I grow all my vegetables in my back yard and patio. Among other things, we avoid preservative laden foods, etc. I understand being too clean can cause all sorts of issues, minimally allergies.

Simply not considering possible risks, when some precautionary advisement has been made, is not acceptable.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:40 AM
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Just got this from Retrevo -- pretty good explanation of the current state of affairs: http://www.retrevo.com/content/blog/...s?cmpid=EmailB
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:49 AM
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Simply not considering possible risks, when some precautionary advisement has been made, is not acceptable.

The only precautionary message I have seen has been of the we don't know so use best judgment kind of thing. My TV manual tells me my wife shouldn't watch our 3D TV but we are willing to take the risk.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:19 PM
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I own every Blu-Ray and every HD-DVD ever made.

In fact, I own every single thing ever made and was the FIRST! on Earth to have it.

Just had to tell you I get a kick out of your signature!
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote: spyder696969
"I own every Blu-Ray and every HD-DVD ever made. In fact, I own every single thing ever made and was the FIRST! on Earth to have it."

Quote: Ghpr 13

Just had to tell you I get a kick out of your signature!
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I can top that. I've also got everything that will ever be made in the future!
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Quote: spyder696969
"I own every Blu-Ray and every HD-DVD ever made. In fact, I own every single thing ever made and was the FIRST! on Earth to have it."

Quote: Ghpr 13

Just had to tell you I get a kick out of your signature!
Ghpr13

I can top that. I've also got everything that will ever be made in the future!


You better purchase long term extended warranty coverage on them. A small percentage of them are sure to break, before they are even manufactured. I read your advice comment, and will heed it.

Blu-Ray copies of movies previously released on DVD, appears to not being issued at a very rapid pace.

I compared my library of DVDs, to what has been released on Blu-Ray, and so far less than 20% of my movie collection is even available in Blu-Ray format. I wonder if downloading on demand, might not eventually kill the production of discs entirely?
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamieb81 View Post

After watching 3D now since December I now see everything in 3D even without the glasses,will this phenomenon last forever?

Keep us posted!

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Old 02-23-2011, 01:20 PM
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We are making progress. I can see everything in 3D,without glasses, except for stuff on video displays. I still need 3D glasses for that, but being able to live all the rest of my life seeing the world in 3D is a great breakthrough.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:28 PM
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You better purchase long term extended warranty coverage on them. A small percentage of them are sure to break, before they are even manufactured. I read your advice comment, and will heed it.

Blu-Ray copies of movies previously released on DVD, appears to not being issued at a very rapid pace.

I compared my library of DVDs, to what has been released on Blu-Ray, and so far less than 20% of my movie collection is even available in Blu-Ray format. I wonder if downloading on demand, might not eventually kill the production of discs entirely?

Actually sales of both DVD and bluray titles and players having gone down over the past two years lends credence to the idea that the same is now happening with HD sets and will continue to do so despite the addition of 3D and other new features. Like with TVs, most of us have already built large movie collections and so there are fewer titles out there to purchase (remember about a half-decade ago when we all clamoring for the release of so many titles?) or players needed to buy.

Though TV still dominates, the progression is starting and downloading on demand, as you alluded to, is also a major factor contributing in less use of television and more that of the PC. One unrelated factor is that others like me are simply recording their favorite films off of TV and onto DVD-R.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

We are making progress. I can see everything in 3D,without glasses, except for stuff on video displays. I still need 3D glasses for that, but being able to live all the rest of my life seeing the world in 3D is a great breakthrough.

You were probably as estactic as Geordi la Forge after he no longer needed those visors. But don't forget what happened to Mr. Spock after a jelous Dr. Miranda Jones tricked him into not wearing his protective goggles during a mind link with the Medusan Ambassador, Kollos, who was emotionally beautiful on the inside, yet with an outward appearance so hideous it drove humanoids insane. I think health warnings were posted in all bathrooms on board the Enterprise so Medusa could not be sued by the Federation.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:51 PM
 
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Actually sales of both DVD and bluray titles and players having gone down over the past two years lends credence to the idea that the same is now happening with HD sets and will continue to do so despite the addition of 3D and other new features. Like with TVs, most of us have already built large movie collections and so there are fewer titles out there to purchase (remember about a half-decade ago when we all clamoring for the release of so many titles?) or players needed to buy.

Though TV still dominates, the progression is starting and downloading on demand, as you alluded to, is also a major factor contributing in less use of television and more that of the PC. One unrelated factor is that others like me are simply recording their favorite films off of TV and onto DVD-R.

That isn't what the Nielsen Three Screen Report (a quarterly report) finds (Q4 2010) - tables 3 and 4

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_N1PKnl-ij8...cture1-pg4.jpg
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