Ok...Holidays are now over, so, how about 3D now? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: 3D TV - Is it a Fad?
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post #61 of 1824 Old 02-16-2011, 11:32 PM
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Last spring I wanted a new TV, and the promotional material from Sony that it was super-high-quality "got me." The good news, the television, 2010's only Sony model line that has full-array local dimming, yields a fantastic 2D picture.

The 3D is a rip in my opinion - the quality isn't there and the movies have yet to appear beyond the tiny amount we all know about, many of them demos and animations. The effect does work but the sacrifice with Sony's glasses is way too much for me; the best part of a 3D blu ray is when it is over and the wretched glasses can be removed. They flicker badly - usually but not always for the first few minutes of viewing it's very bad; and the darkening and strange effect they have on picture clarity - and that for me, anyway, they are really heavy and uncomfortable x10, negates any desire to shell out for more 3D BD's if/when they materialze. I finally took a really close look at the glasses and now realize some of the dissatisfaction may come from their poor quality - looking through them side-to-side is like a funhouse mirror with all it's distortions (no, not that much, but is this the best they can do?) If Sony comes out with a new version of the glasses that yield a brighter, better picture, it could make me at least feel like I wasn't duped.

An interesting visit to Best Buy last week was a real - er - eye opener (sorry). There were a couple Sharp sets with Sharp glasses. For whatever reason, the 3D effects were better and the glasses were totally comfortable and light. Best Buy is not going to carry 2 of the Sharp 3D models, no reason why (a decision is obviously made in a corporate room o' suits). So I got an excellent 2D set, one of the best of 2010; and the 3D capability is something I regret paying into, though there was no choice with the HX-909. I can't stand call centers but am going to write a letter to Sony about their abysmal glasses... maybe there is something better in the wings. I've read many messages that people notice "clouds" in the LCD screen and so do I - but only with the 3D glasses on, I don't know if it's settings the TV forces on for 3D viewing or the poor quality glasses, probably the glasses. Come on, Sony, do right by your customers. Having to "warm up" LCD glasses to minimize flicker after all that hype and expenditure? Again, GREAT 2D, think I'll put the glasses and movies in a drawer somewhere and forget about them.
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post #62 of 1824 Old 02-16-2011, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Thanks for the youtube link.

Knew of the buy back program but that advertisement goes beyond being hilarious, it's going to blow up in Best Buy's face! It accents the negative, not the positive by coming across as a sarcastic put-down of industry spin about products purchased a year or so ago not being as good as those today . It's a routine more appropriate for SNL and I suspect Best Buy executives are privately being blasted by their fellow industry partners for it's certainly not going to get consumers to replace what they already have.

Yeah, that commercial is a HUGE gamble. Evidently "someone" is hurting right now. When you see large corporations openly admitting to stuff like this via sarcasm, they are reaching for a reason. The smoke and mirrors are obviously not working right now without the "time of plenty" (economically speaking). Hopefully people have learned something, probably not though...

Big box stores like Bestbuy weren't doing so hot at the end of last year, here is a blurb...

"Electronics and appliances stores were among retailers that showed weakness last month as sales fell 0.6 percent. Best Buy, the world's largest consumer-electronics retailer, reported a 4.4 percent decline in third-quarter profit as U.S. sales dropped more than expected. The Richfield, Minnesota-based company said today sales at stores open for at least 14 months sank 5 percent on weaker demand for televisions and entertainment products."
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post #63 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 12:30 AM
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I'm hoping this post will shut up a lot of naysayers.

Working at Sears I get a higher commission on new technologies. Last year it was LED. Year before was Internet apps. This year it's 3D. It took me about 8 months to figure out how to sell 3D because most people, like most people in this thread, hate it. I've learned how to sell the TVs, though: "All good 2011 TVs are 3D. They cost less than the 2010 models. If you don't like it just don't buy the glasses and don't put it in 3D mode" "All 2011 TVs are 3D." I could have made soooo much money around Christmas time if I'd just have known that line.

Half the people think they have to wear glasses 100% of the time and the other half who aren't as stupid think they're paying extra for 3D so got a crappier set because of it (for example they'll buy the Panasonic S2 which is the worst plasma out there instead of the GT25 which is nearly the best. They lose the light filter, they lose Internet Apps, they lose the swivel base, color brilliance, black-levels, USB, etc. Except when they don't know the GT25 does 3D, then they buy it.) A lot of 3D TVs come with glasses or a blu-ray player. Guess what? I don't give it to them! If I do there will be too much emphasis on 3D and won't buy it! Guaranteed tried and tested many times over! There's a lot of psychology involved in selling.

Fact: people hate 3D. Even people in this thread are extremely misinformed and just don't get it. It's just a feature on your TV that you don't have to use. For everyone reading who hates 3D, I want you realize how ignorant and misinformed you sound. I will show you think through examples: I "hate" some of the ringtones so I won't buy an iPhone. I "hate" Internet Explorer so I won't buy Windows. I "hate" song 6 so I won't buy the Beatles album. I "hate" when my GF of 8 years gets into her moods so I won't marry her. I "hate" red and yellow audio connectors so I won't buy a TV that has those. I "hate" Netflix so I won't buy a TV that has Internet apps. I "hate" THX mode so I won't buy the top of the line plasmas. I "hate" the sad part at the end of my favorite movie so I won't watch it. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? But guess what? Just because you hate a small part of something doesn't mean you don't love it and cherish it as a whole. Except for 3D TVs that is. If you don't like a certain feature, don't use it. Guess what? I don't like 3D either but I will definitely own a 2011 TV. And it will have a crapload of preinstalled games, net browers, Hulu apps, 3D, THX, ambient light sensor, etc., most of which I won't use. Why is 3D any different from "video game mode" or an ethernet port? You just say you don't like it because your TV doesn't have it. No different from saying, "I don't want to have a lot of money" or "I don't want a beautiful supermodel GF." Samsung and Panasonic don't care if YOU like 3D or not. Like it or not 3D is on your TV. And it's going to be on there. Forever. It's just software. A simple feature. Like solitaire on your computer. No one said you have to use it. Seriously.
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post #64 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 01:02 AM
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I'm the type of person who always wants the newest technology when it first comes out. For some reason, I just don't feel that way about 3D. I have no interest in it at all. It's just not appealing to me. When I see new games, etc... offering 3D support, it irritates me.

That said, I have a 2009 Samsung 42" Plasma that offers vague support of 3D in the manual. It has a port on the back resembling a mini headphone jack. Is this the same way that the new 3D TV's work?
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post #65 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 03:04 AM
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There is a fundemental problem with 3D which will ultimately limit its uptake. To work properly, the viewing angle has to be the same from the viewer's perspective as the camera. Unless you sit pretty close to a large TV, this just about excludes TV. The 3D effect in TVs will make it less realistic in most cases as you will see little men running around in your TV set (things can pop out, but only within the tight viewing angle). 3D home cinema is more viable, but will all films go 3D. It would mean limiting filming to using a standard lens, no wide angle or telephoto shots. These would provide an image with the wrong scale or simply present confusing 3D perspective information which would be a distraction to the viewer or just cause a headache. A 3D film shot within this limitation and viewed at the correct distance will give a great immersive experience, but 2D will never go away.
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post #66 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 04:18 AM
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i voted fad. I wear prescription glasses when I watch tv and when I go to the show, and it is not very comfortable to sit there with 2 sets of glasses on. When they come out with prescription 3d glasses, I'll be in.
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post #67 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 04:21 AM
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You should be able to get a pair of clip-on 3D glasses if you look around.
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post #68 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 04:57 AM
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I saw my first 3D movie not long ago which was Tron. I was on the fence before and walked away from the theater thinking, "Man I just don't care." Was it cool? Yup. Would I spend the extra bucks on the hardware for home? Most likely not. At least a player anyway. All tvs will have 3D, most equipment will have hdmi 1.4 and blu-ray players will all eventually be 3D compatibe. I think it will be relegated to an omnipresent feature set that HT consumers will either use or not. The abilty will be there on everything soon enough.
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post #69 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 05:19 AM
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Fad until the glasses are able to be ditched!

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post #70 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by QCamera View Post

3D is an amazing experience. Definitely not for lazy user and brand name buyer. Calibration is crucial.

If those are the requirement it has already failed.

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post #71 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 06:14 AM
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Until you can get full impersive 3D without needing new hardware, with a full range of vision and no glasses, then it's a fad.

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post #72 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tjdean01 View Post

I'm hoping this post will shut up a lot of naysayers.

Working at Sears I get a higher commission on new technologies. Last year it was LED. Year before was Internet apps. This year it's 3D. It took me about 8 months to figure out how to sell 3D because most people, like most people in this thread, hate it. I've learned how to sell the TVs, though: "All good 2011 TVs are 3D. They cost less than the 2010 models. If you don't like it just don't buy the glasses and don't put it in 3D mode" "All 2011 TVs are 3D." I could have made soooo much money around Christmas time if I'd just have known that line.

Half the people think they have to wear glasses 100% of the time and the other half who aren't as stupid think they're paying extra for 3D so got a crappier set because of it (for example they'll buy the Panasonic S2 which is the worst plasma out there instead of the GT25 which is nearly the best. They lose the light filter, they lose Internet Apps, they lose the swivel base, color brilliance, black-levels, USB, etc. Except when they don't know the GT25 does 3D, then they buy it.) A lot of 3D TVs come with glasses or a blu-ray player. Guess what? I don't give it to them! If I do there will be too much emphasis on 3D and won't buy it! Guaranteed tried and tested many times over! There's a lot of psychology involved in selling.

Fact: people hate 3D. Even people in this thread are extremely misinformed and just don't get it. It's just a feature on your TV that you don't have to use. For everyone reading who hates 3D, I want you realize how ignorant and misinformed you sound. I will show you think through examples: I "hate" some of the ringtones so I won't buy an iPhone. I "hate" Internet Explorer so I won't buy Windows. I "hate" song 6 so I won't buy the Beatles album. I "hate" when my GF of 8 years gets into her moods so I won't marry her. I "hate" red and yellow audio connectors so I won't buy a TV that has those. I "hate" Netflix so I won't buy a TV that has Internet apps. I "hate" THX mode so I won't buy the top of the line plasmas. I "hate" the sad part at the end of my favorite movie so I won't watch it. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? But guess what? Just because you hate a small part of something doesn't mean you don't love it and cherish it as a whole. Except for 3D TVs that is. If you don't like a certain feature, don't use it. Guess what? I don't like 3D either but I will definitely own a 2011 TV. And it will have a crapload of preinstalled games, net browers, Hulu apps, 3D, THX, ambient light sensor, etc., most of which I won't use. Why is 3D any different from "video game mode" or an ethernet port? You just say you don't like it because your TV doesn't have it. No different from saying, "I don't want to have a lot of money" or "I don't want a beautiful supermodel GF." Samsung and Panasonic don't care if YOU like 3D or not. Like it or not 3D is on your TV. And it's going to be on there. Forever. It's just software. A simple feature. Like solitaire on your computer. No one said you have to use it. Seriously.

You exhibit extreme bias since the success of this feature directly affects your financial well-being. I don't HATE 3D. I am just not buying in to it. If someone were to give me 3D hardware I would be use it as much as I could. I am saying it is not awesome enough for the majority to ditch their old gear to adopt. Unlike HD vs SD were there are some reasonable merits to want a clearer picture, there is a clunkiness to this "feature" that needs to be shed in order for it to become taken seriously.

Also, you are right I am one of those who does not want a lot of money. I have known and have immediate family who either actively seek millions or have acquired it. They call me all the time to vent about what they have either given up, are giving up, or are guilty about what they are giving up to acquire monetary goals (time with children/wife/family/marriage). Supermodel, I have had quite a few, that many have considered to be, beautiful girlfriends. The ones that people ask, "How did you end up with her?" Yeah, they just don't know what you have deal with on that end. I'll just leave it there.

I am just not that type of donkey. I don't chase carrots, unless I can have a bite.

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Most of your examples sound like things you hear as a salesperson. However, they are viable reasons to the person you are dealing with to not buy products. You just might not be a good enough salesperson to get past them. The funniest one is the girlfriend/moods/8 years/marriage thing. If she is getting in moods a lot it is one of two things: either you aren't enough for her or she has problems. Been there done that and went all the way. Needless to say, she had issues. Years later she wanted me back.

If something has even the least little bit of "suck" about it, and your spider senses are tingling, don't buy it. Why finance companies R&D real time, while they should offer a nice close to finished product.
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post #73 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 06:49 AM
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I really think it depends on what content you're interested in.

For movies, it may very well be a fad. Apparently shooting a movie in 3d is prohibitively expensive, and these conversions just aren't good enough. Avatar is still the only 3d live action movie to impress me, and movies with that kind of budget are still few and far between. CG movies are much easier to make in 3D, and the shrek collection was excellent. I can't envision a near future where all movies are 3D, but I don't think they're going away, especially not CG. Doesn't make it a fad, but a niche.

For sports, the glasses need to go away before it's successful. Watching sports is too often a social experience, that the glasses are simply a non-starter.

Gaming is where we will see 3d really take off and stick around. Essentially, games are already 3d. Outputting in stereoscopic is almost as easy as flipping a switch from the designers POV. Just one problem - current consoles aren't really powerful enough to output decent 3d and maintain the level of graphical quality we're used to. Itll catch on for sure with the next generation of consoles. Playing games is often a solitary experience so the glasses are much less of an issue.

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post #74 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 06:53 AM
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I might be game for 3D at some point down the line (say 5 years). However, I just found out a few months ago that my wife essentially has monocular vision as a result of strabismus. Her brain only processes one eye at a time; ergo, no 3D effect for her (and a big headache). We both wear glasses, so an additional pair of glasses is also a hassle. Bring on 4K and MaxiVision 48.
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post #75 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:16 AM
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Oh it is certainly here to stay. Done right it is very impressive. However my prediction: It could be very slow and painful until a standard "evolves". Evolve, meaning either:
1) a real standard or
2) worst case an even bigger circle jerk with everyone going in a slightly different direction, until a "standard" evolves in the marketplace (not unlike the HR resolution disc era in which it took years for the BR format to prevail)...?

Just my 2 cents worth....

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post #76 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I really think it depends on what content you're interested in.

For movies, it may very well be a fad. Apparently shooting a movie in 3d is prohibitively expensive, and these conversions just aren't good enough. Avatar is still the only 3d live action movie to impress me, and movies with that kind of budget are still few and far between. CG movies are much easier to make in 3D, and the shrek collection was excellent. I can't envision a near future where all movies are 3D, but I don't think they're going away, especially not CG. Doesn't make it a fad, but a niche.

For sports, the glasses need to go away before it's successful. Watching sports is too often a social experience, that the glasses are simply a non-starter.

Gaming is where we will see 3d really take off and stick around. Essentially, games are already 3d. Outputting in stereoscopic is almost as easy as flipping a switch from the designers POV. Just one problem - current consoles aren't really powerful enough to output decent 3d and maintain the level of graphical quality we're used to. Itll catch on for sure with the next generation of consoles. Playing games is often a solitary experience so the glasses are much less of an issue.

bd2003,
I'm in total agreement with your post. I think exactly like you do about the future of 3D.

One other thought came to mind as I was reading through this thread. Almost everyone who has purchased a 3DTV has commented on that the 2D PQ is the best they have every seen, a real improvement. I'm thinking that as time goes on this could be another strike against 3DTV. If I have a 3DTV and when watching a 3D program, I feel that the PQ is not the greatest, yet when I watch a 2D program, the PQ is outstanding, IMO, I wouldn't be wanting to spend extra money on 3D BD that are going to give me an inferior picture compared to a regular BD. Yes, I'll have 3D technology, but I don't see why I would want to use it.

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post #77 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean01 View Post

I'm hoping this post will shut up a lot of naysayers.

Good luck with that ..

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post #78 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean01 View Post

I'm hoping this post will shut up a lot of naysayers.

Working at Sears I get a higher commission on new technologies....A lot of 3D TVs come with glasses or a blu-ray player. Guess what? I don't give it to them! If I do there will be too much emphasis on 3D and won't buy it! Guaranteed tried and tested many times over! There's a lot of psychology involved in selling....

tjdean01,
You know I can't just put my finger on it, but there's something about these statements that seem to bother me...Oh, yeah, you "don't give" them what was apart of what they purchased? Really? And just what happens to all those glasses or Blu-Ray players that your paying customers don't get?

It's nice to know that there are salespeople like yourself out there looking to protect us "uninformed" consumers.

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post #79 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by erick granato View Post

When they come out with prescription 3d glasses, I'll be in.

I have an extra set of clear prescription lenses that were taken out of a set of frames that I had turned into sunglasses. I attached these to the inside of my 3D glasses and it works great!
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post #80 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:47 AM
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Recycled fad from the 50's.

I suppose Sensurround will be brought back in the near future, huh?

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post #81 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 07:57 AM
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Here to stay but then again so are Hula Hoops, Cabbage Patch Kids, Tickle Me Elmo, and Beanie Babies... So I think the poll is flawed in that the selections are not mutually exclusive.

I much preferred the 2D portions of Tron to the 3D ones. Occasionally there was an impressive 3D scene that worked, but the rest of the time the side effects just distracted from the movie.
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post #82 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post


bd2003,
I'm in total agreement with your post. I think exactly like you do about the future of 3D.

One other thought came to mind as I was reading through this thread. Almost everyone who has purchased a 3DTV has commented on that the 2D PQ is the best they have every seen, a real improvement. I'm thinking that as time goes on this could be another strike against 3DTV. If I have a 3DTV and when watching a 3D program, I feel that the PQ is not the greatest, yet when I watch a 2D program, the PQ is outstanding, IMO, I wouldn't be wanting to spend extra money on 3D BD that are going to give me an inferior picture compared to a regular BD. Yes, I'll have 3D technology, but I don't see why I would want to use it.

Ghpr13

Well, that has a lot to do with how 3D is basically a value add to a good 2D set. What does it take to do good 3D? A fast, bright panel. In other words, a good 2D TV. We still need faster and brighter panels. The glasses also need to get better/faster.

Right now a good 3D blu ray is incredibly impressive....in a fully light controlled room. As long as were watching through sunglasses every lumen is going to count. Current panels are bright enough that in a pitch black room your eyes adjust and it looks great - turn the lights on or take off the glasses and it looks comparatively dim and lifeless.

Thankfully, these are easily solvable problems. We just need better versions of what we have, and that's inevitable.

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post #83 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:04 AM
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I love it, but won't be surprised if it takes a while to catch on. The glasses for home viewing don't bother me at all (except for the cost!).

Content also must improve, because there are only so many bad movies many of us will buy just to see 3D (example - "Piranha 3D" )
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post #84 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by billh03 View Post

Last spring I wanted a new TV, and the promotional material from Sony that it was super-high-quality "got me." The good news, the television, 2010's only Sony model line that has full-array local dimming, yields a fantastic 2D picture.

So I got an excellent 2D set, one of the best of 2010; and the 3D capability is something I regret paying into, though there was no choice with the HX-909.

Don't you also find the promotional material touting 3D sets as having the highest picture quality available a bit over-exageratted and could have bought the same screen size with excellent picture quality for much less?
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post #85 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:14 AM
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"Working at Sears I get a higher commission on new technologies. Last year it was LED. Year before was Internet apps. This year it's 3D. It took me about 8 months to figure out how to sell 3D because most people, like most people in this thread, hate it. I've learned how to sell the TVs, though: "All good 2011 TVs are 3D. They cost less than the 2010 models. If you don't like it just don't buy the glasses and don't put it in 3D mode" "All 2011 TVs are 3D." I could have made soooo much money around Christmas time if I'd just have known that line."


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Originally Posted by twisted_oak View Post

You exhibit extreme bias since the success of this feature directly affects your financial well-being. I don't HATE 3D. I am just not buying in to it. If someone were to give me 3D hardware I would be use it as much as I could. I am saying it is not awesome enough for the majority to ditch their old gear to adopt. Unlike HD vs SD were there are some reasonable merits to want a clearer picture, there is a clunkiness to this "feature" that needs to be shed in order for it to become taken seriously.

Also, you are right I am one of those who does not want a lot of money. I have known and have immediate family who either actively seek millions or have acquired it. They call me all the time to vent about what they have either given up, are giving up, or are guilty about what they are giving up to acquire monetary goals (time with children/wife/family/marriage). Supermodel, I have had quite a few, that many have considered to be, beautiful girlfriends. The ones that people ask, "How did you end up with her?" Yeah, they just don't know what you have deal with on that end. I'll just leave it there.

I am just not that type of donkey. I don't chase carrots, unless I can have a bite.

Agree with you completely, Oak not only about the more important things in life but also of the motives of that salesman, who came across more about commission than anything else based upon his statment of learning how to sell something and wishing he had more money. Sounds like an attempt to push the most expensive stuff on customers rather than getting them to purchase the product that is right for their tastes and their pocket books - unless he was being sarcastic using that advertisement from Best Buy as an example.
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post #86 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:21 AM
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When talking about 3d movies, it seems that the only movies regularly discussed is Tron and Avator. So we've had two good movie productions in 3d since 2009. It's not saying much to me about the future of 3d. I can't see upgrading my system end-to-end just to watch 2 good movies in 3d. In the end I think the lack of good content is going kill adoption of 3d...
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post #87 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:28 AM
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Starting this year and more so in 2011 you either buy a 3D TV or a TV that sucks. Of course feel free to not get the glasses and instead get a discount.
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post #88 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:39 AM
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Fact: people hate 3D. Even people in this thread are extremely misinformed and just don't get it. It's just a feature on your TV that you don't have to use. For everyone reading who hates 3D, I want you realize how ignorant and misinformed you sound.

I don't understand why so many think this is a Black or White issue.
You either "Hate" 3D or you don't.

I don't "Hate" it.... I'm just not willing to buy into it right now. I've spent enough on new gear already.

If I "needed" a new TV... sure, I'd probably get one with 3D just for the future, in case I wanted to use that feature someday.

I think a better statement would be...Fact: people aren't interested in 3D.
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post #89 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Don't you also find the promotional material touting 3D sets as having the highest picture quality available a bit over-exageratted and could have bought the same screen size with excellent picture quality for much less?

The difference between a 3D set and a none 3D set of the same quality is a $1 IR emitter. Sure the TV companies may be trying to charge an extra $300 for that $1 part with bundled blu-ray players, glasses and movies that make up that 'value', but commercial pressure will drive profit margins on 3D sets down to the same level as for 2D sets.
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post #90 of 1824 Old 02-17-2011, 09:02 AM
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A new poll says that 90% of the people who voted it as a fad do not have a
3DTV.
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