If One Sub is Good, Are Two Better? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 129 Old 05-02-2011, 10:48 PM
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If you listen to music/movies using a crossover of 80Hz or lower it's called "bass imaging imagining".

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #122 of 129 Old 05-03-2011, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hometheaterguy View Post

Three subs placed assymetrically, (staggered unequally in the room) are best to reduce standing waves and provide "bass imaging" and increase headroom and bass you can feel. In a tri-sub system, the LFE is more dedicated to the munition fire, space shuttle, 50cal bass. The the left and rights provide bass AND bass imaging.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431

I disagree with that. I find that two subs playing the normal bass, should be symmetrical to the centerline of the room. The LFE sub can be placed elsewhere, for max output, depending on the room.
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post #123 of 129 Old 05-03-2011, 09:02 AM
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Not that I'm an expert, but I believe that there's a significant body of research saying that <80Hz is not localizable. So in general I agree with you guys.

I doubt the research involved IB's with 12Hz response like some have around here, which I could see changing the equation some. However I'd still love to see blinded trials, taking the "I can tell bass direction" folks blindfolded into unfamiliar rooms and seeing if they can point to its location from the listening chair.

Experience wise, I can tell you that in my room I am 99+% sure the bass direction is not perceptible. However my subwoofers are fairly near my L/R, and their image is also very near the C. I'd guess that my setup would be very strong on the "steering" effect that is intended from the LCR even if there were any hint of bass direction information available psychoacoustically.
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post #124 of 129 Old 05-03-2011, 01:10 PM
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For playing music on a sat/sub system, if the sub(s) are not near (along the front wall) the L/R mains, then you have to make sure the phase is the same as the L/R, or the sound will be disjointed, as if it (they) is in the rear of a room.
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post #125 of 129 Old 05-03-2011, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I disagree with that. I find that two subs playing the normal bass, should be symmetrical to the centerline of the room. The LFE sub can be placed elsewhere, for max output, depending on the room.

I'm not the expert. I thought you basically daisychained your subwoofers to the LFE output... when using an AVR like my SC-05?


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post #126 of 129 Old 05-03-2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

I'm not the expert. I thought you basically daisychained your subwoofers to the LFE output... when using an AVR like my SC-05?

There are many ways to connect subs. When I was using 3 subs the two 15" were receiving the normal bass signal. The third sub was getting the LFE Channel.
When I moved to SA, I only brought the two 15" and I still have the main L/R speakers mounted to them. But right now I'm only running MCM, no theater, so no LFE, right now.
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post #127 of 129 Old 05-03-2011, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

There are many ways to connect subs. When I was using 3 subs the two 15" were receiving the normal bass signal. The third sub was getting the LFE Channel.
When I moved to SA, I only brought the two 15" and I still have the main L/R speakers mounted to them. But right now I'm only running MCM, no theater, so no LFE, right now.

Were do you get your signal for the two running on normal bass signal?


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post #128 of 129 Old 05-04-2011, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

Were do you get your signal for the two running on normal bass signal?

I use a Parasound P7 pre-amp, which has analogue bass management for two channel sources. For the MCM from the multi disc player provides bass management.
One can also run a full range signal to a sub using speaker wire and set the LP filter on the sub XO to 80 or whatever works best. Before MCM and AVRs with BM, that is how all subs were connected.
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post #129 of 129 Old 05-04-2011, 07:16 AM
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Before MCM and AVRs with BM, that is how all subs were connected.

^ Better still, I prefer the preamp level crossover in/out option built-in to the majority of subs, over the speaker level connections, for systems without external crossover bass division means (such as is found on modern day AVRs).

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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