Wal-Mart Plans to Reduce Space for Electronics in Stores - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 85 Old 04-17-2011, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishpoke View Post

If best buy and other stores did online price matching they might actually be worth a damn.

Have we thought about why they don't?

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post #32 of 85 Old 04-17-2011, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Raptorsys View Post

An online retailer basically has warehouses from which they ship to the customer. A B&M has to have warehouses to but they also have the retail stores and salesmen -- there is no comparison to the cost structure as online will always be cheaper.

What many do is go to a B&M to check stuff out then buy online for less. So, in effect, the B&M is paying to provide the hands-on experience and the online outfit, which doesn't offer that service, gets the sale because they're cheaper.

Sooner or later B&M's will go away and the shipping companies (FedEx, UPS, etc) will receive truckloads from warehouses and distribution centers and we the customer will never see the product until it arrives on our doorstep.

Walmart has lower prices on some things but not quality items. Walmart imports tons of crap from China and sells that crap really cheap but they don't offer much in the line of quality stuff and when they do there prices are no better and often worse than other outfits.


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What happens to that applecart if/when Congress passes legislation that imposes sales taxes on all internet commerce?

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post #33 of 85 Old 04-17-2011, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Curt Anderson View Post

...
3D was supposed to be the savior, and as clever as it is, it just isn't the magic bullet retailers are hoping for.

All this spells DOOM.

Well... it wouldn't hurt to be able to go into a store and see 3D demoed properly. Almost without exception, regardless of the big box store from Best Buy to Sam's I visit routinely the 3D displays and demo are never working. The glasses are gone... I'm surprised BB can sell anything with the lousy - no horrific - marketing displayed in most of their stores. And, as we all know, most of the IQ level of their employees!

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post #34 of 85 Old 04-17-2011, 07:10 PM
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I have never bought any electronic equipment from Walmart. They don't sell any equipment worth buying. Come to think about it I have been to Walmart maybe 5 times in my life. It is not my favorite store. This could be good news. It may create more space for others like BB.
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post #35 of 85 Old 04-17-2011, 07:49 PM
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I see TV's at Walmart, Target and Sam's Club, but come to think of it, never bought a TV at a mass merchant. OTOH I've bought six TV's and three receivers from Best Buy. Sales tax isn't really a factor. I just want to see what I'm buying. If the price is acceptable it doesn't matter if it might be slightly less across the street or online. Also the salesmen don't matter. I usually know what I want and may only have a question or two. So Best Buy gets most of my business.

I do buy some gear online from Amazon and NewEgg. As for those who browse products in stores then order online, I actually did just the opposite. I saw an Onkyo receiver at a good price on Amazon and went to look at it at BB... didn't like the Onkyo, but they had a Denon right next to it that I liked and bought it on the spot. I'd hate to see the day when we have to buy everything sight unseen online because all the B&M's have stopped selling electronics.

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post #36 of 85 Old 04-17-2011, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

What happens to that applecart if/when Congress passes legislation that imposes sales taxes on all internet commerce?

living in NY i already pay tax on almost everything i order online, its still cheaper a LOT cheaper.

amazon offers free shipping on so much and returning takes about 4 seconds
. TBH if i wasn't saving hundreds of $$$ id just buy locally. However there is nothing local as i live in the middle of nowhere. closest BB for example is a hour away


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post #37 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

So, Who is concerned about Amazon's capability of handling THAT level of success without gouging the customers that got them there? I know I am. I think anyone should be.

If Amazon raises their prices too much, you will buy from Newegg or OneCall. Or else from Abt, 6Ave, J&R, B&H Photo, or a half-dozen other legitimate online businesses with low prices and good customer service.

The barriers to entry for online retail are pretty low. Amazon can charge extremely low prices because of their supply chain efficiency and volume of sales. However, if they raise their prices just a little too much their smaller competitors can compete well on price.

Amazon had structural advantages compared to poorly run brick and mortar stores like JC Penney, Barnes and Noble, or the old Circuit City or Sears. When it comes to competing with efficient online retailers, Amazon has only so much room to "gouge".

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post #38 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pepeOO View Post

The problem is than we go to a phisical store to see the products them buy them online, even some people say that in a tone of anger about phisical stores having higher prices, like if the store don't pay rent or to the unsatisfied employ with its salary or don't having the job of their dreams.

I don't know, but maybe in the future all of we are going to work on amazon, newegg or in a factory on china.

Oh, I think that folks in medicine and law will keep on doing what they're doing, rather than working for Amazon or slaving away in a Chinese factory. Plumbers and electricians will continue to make repairs. (If the construction slump finally ends, they may even ply their trades in new construction.)

The blue shirts at Best Buy may go the way of the red shirts at Circuit City and the buggy whip manufacturers before them. However, if you really want to bemoan the demise of a knowledgeable workforce that actually helped the customer, you would think wistfully of the sales guys at the hi-fi stereo shops that went out of business ten to twenty years ago.

The sales drones at the big box stores probably can go back to the KFC where they were working six weeks ago. Local food prep isn't going to be outsourced to China or the internet any times soon.

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post #39 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

living in NY i already pay tax on almost everything i order online, its still cheaper a LOT cheaper.

amazon offers free shipping on so much and returning takes about 4 seconds
. TBH if i wasn't saving hundreds of $$$ id just buy locally. However there is nothing local as i live in the middle of nowhere. closest BB for example is a hour away

I'm not sure I'm comfortable buying TVs sight-unseen based on online reviews and AVS owner reviews (as helpful as those are, everyone's eyes are different and what's right for me may not be right for those reviewers/owners).

Because, that's what we'd be left with if B&M stores went out of business. You couldn't SEE the TV you wanted to.

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post #40 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 08:18 AM
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B&M stores need to compete with online stores by offering competitively priced items if purchased online. Then you have the advantage of local return if there is an issue. But even some b&m can price competitively with online, such as newegg. Frys and micro center come to mind.
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post #41 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JimboG View Post

If Amazon raises their prices too much, you will buy from Newegg or OneCall. Or else from Abt, 6Ave, J&R, B&H Photo, or a half-dozen other legitimate online businesses with low prices and good customer service...

Exactly. Amazon won't want to loose their edge as one of the top on-line retailers. There will always be other on-line retailers trying to challenge Amazon for the top spot.

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post #42 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jrwalte View Post

B&M stores need to compete with online stores by offering competitively priced items if purchased online. Then you have the advantage of local return if there is an issue. But even some b&m can price competitively with online, such as newegg. Frys and micro center come to mind.

It is unfair to compare what a B&M retailer can do with price vs. a Web Only retailer .. it is two different scenarios ..

The problem these days is we are all wanting the best deal possible .. we are collectively unwilling to pay more, thus it creates it's own cycle .. when retail margins required to maintain an actual store in a retail area of a city or town VS the guy renting a warehouse for half or less than the retail guy are factored in, the Web guy will always be able to offer the better deal ..

You can run a warehouse shipping location with a Web based catalog for substantially less money .. thus, you can offer cheaper prices .. it's just the way it is ..

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post #43 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

I'm wondering why everyone seems to give Amazon such latitude and benefit of the doubt with regard to that one question: "what will YOU do when you're the only game in town?" Only with amazon.com, if they take over electronics retailing, it won't be the only game in town. It will be the only game anywhere.

And Google leadership at least saw the need for that proclamation early on to "don't be evil". Amazon.com doesn't have that self-projected moral compass that we know of.

So, Who is concerned about Amazon's capability of handling THAT level of success without gouging the customers that got them there? I know I am. I think anyone should be.

The ironic thing about this sort of "oh whatever will we do about the looming threat of the Amazon behemoth taking over the world" post is that I read the same sort of posts several years ago about Walmart. So it was with IBM striding about like a colossus in the computer world, or Sears with catalog sales, or GM with cars. As long as there are no barriers to market entry, ENJOY the low prices and vast inventory of an Amazon, and stop with the hand wringing. NO one is immune to the discipline of the market (unless, of course, government protects them in the name of the "public good". Of course, they're really more interested in trying to protect one or more politically-connected businesses from their more efficient competitors than in looking out for the "public good").

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If Amazon raises their prices too much, you will buy from Newegg or OneCall. Or else from Abt, 6Ave, J&R, B&H Photo, or a half-dozen other legitimate online businesses with low prices and good customer service.

The barriers to entry for online retail are pretty low. Amazon can charge extremely low prices because of their supply chain efficiency and volume of sales. However, if they raise their prices just a little too much their smaller competitors can compete well on price.

Exactly right.
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post #44 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 09:12 AM
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NO one is immune to the discipline of the market (unless, of course, government protects them in the name of the "public good").

As in "Too Big To Fail" ..

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post #45 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 09:17 AM
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As in "Too Big To Fail" ..

Yep!
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post #46 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 10:39 AM
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I just bought a TV from an online vendor, Electronics Expo, through its storefront on Amazon.com. I bought it there because Amazon was out of stock, but EE's price was still $200+ better than even the Amazon price. I went to Best Buy before I made the purchase and told them I was ready to take the TV that day if they would give some kind of a discount. The manager wouldn't budge, and I went with the cheapest option. Well lo and behold, I check out BB's website today, and find the price is identical to the Amazon price before they sold out. It looks like BB is responding to more discerning buyers who are hunting out the best prices. It still depends on fleecing people who just walk in looking for something shiny, but they are feeling the pain of decreased marketshare. By the way, saved over $500 this way, why do it any differently when you save that much?
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post #47 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 11:17 AM
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I just bought a TV from an online vendor, Electronics Expo, through its storefront on Amazon.com. I bought it there because Amazon was out of stock, but EE's price was still $200+ better than even the Amazon price. I went to Best Buy before I made the purchase and told them I was ready to take the TV that day if they would give some kind of a discount. The manager wouldn't budge, and I went with the cheapest option. Well lo and behold, I check out BB's website today, and find the price is identical to the Amazon price before they sold out. It looks like BB is responding to more discerning buyers who are hunting out the best prices. It still depends on fleecing people who just walk in looking for something shiny, but they are feeling the pain of decreased marketshare. By the way, saved over $500 this way, why do it any differently when you save that much?

Another misconception on retail stores as well as on-line .. retail prices on CE fluctuate constantly .. the manufacturers offer price drops, dealer rebates, one shot deals for x quantity, sales incentives .. etc .. it's not really up to BB or Amazon for that matter .. no one is getting fleeced .. how could they if 95% of the populace shops for the best deal .. ??

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post #48 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

It is unfair to compare what a B&M retailer can do with price vs. a Web Only retailer .. it is two different scenarios ..

The problem these days is we are all wanting the best deal possible .. we are collectively unwilling to pay more, thus it creates it's own cycle .. when retail margins required to maintain an actual store in a retail area of a city or town VS the guy renting a warehouse for half or less than the retail guy are factored in, the Web guy will always be able to offer the better deal ..

You can run a warehouse shipping location with a Web based catalog for substantially less money .. thus, you can offer cheaper prices .. it's just the way it is ..

No it isn't. B&M, such as Best Buy, have distribution warehouses no different than amazon or newegg. They need to offer direct sale to customer from their website from these distribution points at a cheaper price than their B&M - and they may already do this when you do order from their website - the price just isn't always cheaper or competitive. The more volume they sell at the online price from their distribution points, the lower they can make the B&M price, as the lost B&M profits are made up from the distribution-to-customer, and then due to lower B&M prices, they'll sell more volume from their B&Ms.
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post #49 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 12:32 PM
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No it isn't. B&M, such as Best Buy, have distribution warehouses no different than amazon or newegg. They need to offer direct sale to customer from their website from these distribution points at a cheaper price than their B&M - and they may already do this when you do order from their website - the price just isn't always cheaper or competitive. The more volume they sell at the online price from their distribution points, the lower they can make the B&M price, as the lost B&M profits are made up from the distribution-to-customer, and then due to lower B&M prices, they'll sell more volume from their B&Ms.

I've owned both retail and on line stores, I know exactly how it works .. maybe you should contact the execs at BB and pass on your idea .. I'm sure they have never considered that before ..

There is an old joke in the retail business .. "We sell everything at a loss but we make it up on volume .."

It's not nearly as easy as you make it sound ..

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post #50 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 12:54 PM
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Heck, many big box stores won't even match their own website pricing. That frustrates me to no end. I understand to the additional overhead but I MAY actually purchase a few other items while I'm there but they won't give me a reason to even step in the door.
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post #51 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

What ever shakes out over the next few years in the CE business, we've created it .. when it became acceptable, even commendable, to demo the goods and then go home and search for the cheapest deal, with no sales tax and free shipping, then we reap what we sow ..

Amen..
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post #52 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 03:55 PM
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Predicting the demise of B&M electronics is hard to say, but in a way it might be just evolution...Many, including myself, have posted on how the old stand alone A/V shops that had mid to high end electronics became a thing of the past as Circuit City and Best Buy took over with their lower pricing. Now, Amazon.com, New Egg.com, and other on-line retailers have the upper hand in pricing. So will this lead to the B&M end? I guess we just have to wait and see. Funny thing is just the other day I came across a website for Circuit City. Seems they still have an on-line business.
http://www.circuitcity.com/

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post #53 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 04:37 PM
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Predicting the demise of B&M electronics is hard to say, but in a way it might be just evolution...Many, including myself, have posted on how the old stand alone A/V shops that had mid to high end electronics became a thing of the past as Circuit City and Best Buy took over with their lower pricing. Now, Amazon.com, New Egg.com, and other on-line retailers have the upper hand in pricing. So will this lead to the B&M end? I guess we just have to wait and see. Funny thing is just the other day I came across a website for Circuit City. Seems they still have an on-line business.
http://www.circuitcity.com/

Ghpr13

About the only thing you can't buy online today is a new driveway. That has to be delivered and installed locally. Just about everything else is up for grabs.

Look what Wal Mart did to the local Mom and Pop shops. They are gone, gone gone. Then again, look what the Interstate Highway system did to local commerce and business. Sure it improved many, but killed others. Now the Internet is doing the same thing - and we all love it! New technology always changes the paradigm - for better or worse. MP3s kill the CD and turned the music industry on its head. After many lawsuits. DVD killed the VHS tape. Streaming is killing the DVD (sales and rentals), and will ultimately kill bluray as well.

More than anything all of these changes affected local economies - by slowly (or not) killing B&M businesses. But life adapts, jobs are lost, some are gained. If you happen to be benefiting from supporting the Internet, are a programmer, or in some support role, you likely have survived - so far. More changes are on the way, but as you say just how it will affect all of us remains to be seen.

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post #54 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 06:09 PM
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Predicting the demise of B&M electronics is hard to say, but in a way it might be just evolution...

What fascinates me is the degree to which some people fear change, as if the way business is done at a given point in time should always be done that way. I've never understood that attitude. If people didn't think the new way was better, they wouldn't go for it.
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post #55 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 06:11 PM
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I do find it odd that my BB has put in a Magnolia center.. The center piece is the new 85inch, 60,000 plasma.. The Magnolia store inside my BB is beyond words.. & really caters to the hi end, ala, 14,000 speakers etc.. But I think it will fail.. People who buy expensive electronics don't shop at BB, built in Magnolia center or not.

the B.B.nearest my house is at santana row in san jose and they are also installing a large in store Magnolia a/v but i was told that they are closing down the stand alone magnolia a/v store a couple of blocks away.for me magnolia has been a hit or miss place.i bought my sony 34"xbr960 flat tube(yes i said tube!)from them a few years ago and everything went great but in recent years not so good.i bought an lcd 2 years ago that i initially went to magnolia for but they were out of stock and delivery was like 3 or 4 days so i went across the street to-you guessed it best buy-and they had it in store and cheaper!a friend of mine had a number of problems with magnolia regarding real poor delivery co-ordination and replacement of damaged products.i imagine the bb with magnolia inside pull from a common in store inventory so that might improve availability some.i hope they dont fail cause i like going in to browse.i mean really i used to love going into good guys back in the day-ah to bad i miss the days b4 box stores and internet contracted the a/v hobby/passion.
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post #56 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

... change, as if the way business is done at a given point in time should always be done that way. I've never understood that attitude. If people didn't think the new way was better, they wouldn't go for it.

And some change is thrust upon us... Case in point. My last little bastion of energy inefficiency is the incandescent light bulb. I understand fully all the benefits of fluorescent light, but illumination is not one of them. The circular ones that are used in lamps do not provide the illumination (color temp) I not only want, but prefer. Nor are they near bright enough! So much so, that I'm now hoarding the incandescent ones and will continue to do so. Sadly they don't last very long. I think it's a conspiracy from GE. Saving energy at my home with these bulbs will have to wait a bit longer. We take other measures to conserve and reduce our energy consumption, but replacing the incandescent light bulb is not one of them. At least not yet anyway. Sorry environment. But I digress from the thread....

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post #57 of 85 Old 04-18-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sjitalian View Post

the B.B.nearest my house is at santana row in san jose and they are also installing a large in store Magnolia a/v but i was told that they are closing down the stand alone magnolia a/v store a couple of blocks away.for me magnolia has been a hit or miss place.i bought my sony 34"xbr960 flat tube(yes i said tube!)from them a few years ago and everything went great but in recent years not so good.i bought an lcd 2 years ago that i initially went to magnolia for but they were out of stock and delivery was like 3 or 4 days so i went across the street to-you guessed it best buy-and they had it in store and cheaper!a friend of mine had a number of problems with magnolia regarding real poor delivery co-ordination and replacement of damaged products.i imagine the bb with magnolia inside pull from a common in store inventory so that might improve availability some.i hope they dont fail cause i like going in to browse.i mean really i used to love going into good guys back in the day-ah to bad i miss the days b4 box stores and internet contracted the a/v hobby/passion.

Sadly, at our local BB, the Magnolia Room is laughable. It is small, and virtually none of the equipment can be connected or demoed properly. If I were the store manager heads would literally roll over it's sad state. I have been to other BBs (cause I travel), and most are well-done - at least by BB modest standards. I even purchased a brand new, unopened Pioneer SC-05 AVR from a Northern VA store at a huge discount, so I have nothing against their Magnolia Rooms. But I wasn't relying on the MR staff to provide any useful information. I knew exactly what I wanted, and they were clearing out excess inventory.

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post #58 of 85 Old 04-19-2011, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by redjr View Post

And some change is thrust upon us... Case in point. My last little bastion of energy inefficiency is the incandescent light bulb. I understand fully all the benefits of fluorescent light, but illumination is not one of them. The circular ones that are used in lamps do not provide the illumination (color temp) I not only want, but prefer. Nor are they near bright enough! So much so, that I'm now hoarding the incandescent ones and will continue to do so. Sadly they don't last very long. I think it's a conspiracy from GE. Saving energy at my home with these bulbs will have to wait a bit longer. We take other measures to conserve and reduce our energy consumption, but replacing the incandescent light bulb is not one of them. At least not yet anyway. Sorry environment. But I digress from the thread....

redjr...

They're still on the expensive side, but you need to try LED. The illumination and color temp are much better, they are instant-on at full illumination, and they use less power than CFL. Every bulb that goes on me I now replace with LED.
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post #59 of 85 Old 04-19-2011, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

What fascinates me is the degree to which some people fear change, as if the way business is done at a given point in time should always be done that way. I've never understood that attitude. If people didn't think the new way was better, they wouldn't go for it.

I certainly don't fear change, in fact I try and embrace it .. I think the point is moving CE more and more toward a Web based shopping experience because the best price is on the Web kinda destroys the personal selection process .. I mean, if all left standing, on the quality goods anyway, are Web based, what do you do .. ?? Trust the reviewers and blind buy .. ?? Especially with speakers ..

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: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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post #60 of 85 Old 04-19-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I think the point is moving CE more and more toward a Web based shopping experience because the best price is on the Web kinda destroys the personal selection process .. I mean, if all left standing, on the quality goods anyway, are Web based, what do you do .. ?? Trust the reviewers and blind buy .. ?? Especially with speakers ..

If that's what people prefer, so be it. Reading this forum gives me FAR better feedback on how good a product is than chatting with some salesman. As for speakers, perhaps they'll be a niche that's not entirely web based. I know that some speaker companies offer a trial period to see if the customer likes them. My point is that all the whining and hand wringing about change (some congressman was bitching about the Ipad putting newspapers out of business) is really off base. If we didn't want change, we'd still be chasing game with pointed sticks for a living.
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