CEDIA 2012: Live Updates from AVS Members - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 01:30 PM
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Thing at CEDIA I would most want to buy if I had loads of money: a Full Swing Golf setup. Comes with projector, screen, etc. Base price of $65K.

 

 

 

 

Thing I would least want to buy: RockSolid speaker system. I mean, it works and all. But it's a rock. 

 

 

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post #62 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 01:41 PM
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Any word from SI on the motorized black diamond screens? pricing/availability, any notable differences in performance from the fixed screen BD?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #63 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 02:05 PM
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Oh hey, I know that site. smile.gif

 

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post #64 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capnsmak View Post

Thing at CEDIA I would most want to buy if I had loads of money: a Full Swing Golf setup. Comes with projector, screen, etc. Base price of $65K.





I have been wanting a setup like that for decades. The first one I saw was by Titleist...I think...for pro-golfer training.cool.gif

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post #65 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enthuzist View Post

I have been wanting a setup like that for decades. The first one I saw was by Titleist...I think...for pro-golfer training.cool.gif
The movie Outland with Sean Connery has something like this in an office scene.
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post #66 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 03:58 PM
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Here is my report from CEDIA, its been a long day and I realised a few things:

Trying to cram it into one day is hard work

I am really not into 3D

I don't ever need to see 'The Art of Flight' ever again


I'll start with my favourite of the show: Sim2 M.150 - This was the only home theater projector Sim2 had on display (they had the Pro C4 as well). They were showing it on a 107" Stewart Screen (standard 1.3 gain I think) there was a bit of ambient light coming in from the door and some low lamps. It seemed to make good on its 1100 lumen claim and the black levels were excellent, perhaps not quite as good as LCOS but so close as to not be an issue. The colour reproduction was what hooked me on this, just gorgeous. I have never seen a bulb based projector produce such subtle dark shades and the neon clothing in the demo just popped off the screen. It was very sharp, as expected and suprisingly bright. Not sure if it is quite bright enough for my setup but given a bit of gain with a screen it could probably work. I also waited until the end of the demo movie to see if I could hear how noisy the projector was as people have commented on this. I couldn't hear anything terrible but it was mounted quite high up in an enclosure but it didn't sound like an air conditioner... I must have spent about an hour watching this...


DPI Dvision 35 LED - They were showing this on a masked off 144" screen as it was also used for their native 2.35:1 model. The effective viewing must have been about the same as the Sim2. Again colour was great but a little annoyingly, they only showed it for a couple of minutes then switched back to the 2.35:1. It may ahve been the setup but I would give the edge to the Sim2, plus I overheard them saying ti would retail for $40K eek.gif


DPI native 2.35:1 - Same screen but unmasked to 144". Very bright, around 2900 lumens I think they said. It looked pretty sharp, colour was pretty decent but I had been spoiled by the LED. It may have been the Seabiscuit demo but the black levels didn't look great, they looked better in the MI4 demo but still nothing mind blowing.


DPI Highlite Cine 330 - Very bright but didn't blow me away, black levels were nothing to write home about and the demo conditions may not have been the best. I think this uses thesmaller DLP chip and trying to pump 3000 lumens is perhaps too detrimental to the black level.


Epson 6020 - Shown on a 120" 1.3 Stewart screen, rather impressed with this actually. Seriously bright, 2400 lumens and the black level was still very good. Apparently it was running in one of the lower lumen settings. Would make a good living room projector. The 2D image quality lacked refinement but overall it did a decent job with colour, was reasonably sharp, I didn't see any pixel structure and I was about 6-7' away. The 3D was suprisingly good, well, in that it didn't make my eyes hurt (unlike the majority of other models I saw). Retail was under $4k apparently, out in November


Mitsubushi 8000D - Screen size was around 110", seemed bright for a .65" chip DLP, certainly brighter than my Sharp Z15000. They were only showing 3D which was unfortunate as I found it virtually unwatchable. I presume the projector was tuned to make the 3D more punchy as the black levels didn't look too hot at all. Out in November, not sure of price. Perhaps on a bigger screen of configured differently this might be quite good for the price.


Sony VW1000ES - Bright and punchy, probably the best non-DLP projector I saw, overall picture quality was excellent. Interestingly, it probably doesn't have as high a native contrast as the JVCs but the dynamic iris does such a good job that I actually preferred the Sony. It had what I can only describe as a more DLPy look than the JVCs. Seriously bright, they had it on a 150" Stewart screen in a totally light controlled room, it didn't seem to have any problem filling it. They were also showing this at the Screen Innovations on a Black Diamond screen with some ambient light and it looked good but far better in a light controlled room. I have to say though, the 2k to 4k upscaling didn't work miracles for me and on closer inspection, looked a little CFI-y. Obviously the 4K content looked great and I would probably take this over their similarly priced 84" 4K TV.


Sony HW50 - They had this on the show floor with loads of ambient light on 84" black diamond screen, it looked pretty washed out in these conditions. They are saying its 1700 lumens but I know that my IN83 produces similar lumen numbers and doesn't look as washed out on a grey wall with several lights on. Hard to tell how good it actually was from the demo.


JVC X95 - They had this in a seperate light-controlled theater on a 120" Stewart screen. It looked suprisingly bright, certainly a step up from my old RS1 with a new bulb. It looked as though it could have gone bigger as the black level looked a little high. The 2D image quality was very good, colour and sharpness seemed good, the eshift really makes a difference. Contrast obviously top notch and created some really excellent depth in dark scenes. The 3D used IR glasses, it was OK but flickery to me, certainly not my favourite or something I could use for long periods.


JVC X75 - Very similar to the above but they had it on a 100" black diamond screen and only running 3D. I don't know if it was the Black Diamond screen or the RF glasses but this gave me a headache almost instantly. Once I took the glasses off however, the blurry image looked colourful with good contrast :-)


JVC X55 - Again, pretty close to the above models, for $5k if you have a light controlled room and don't need massive lumens this is a great deal for $5k (apparently) they had this running 2D on a 100" black diamond screen. They did a demo with eshift on and off, it definitely improves the image. Basically it looked like a half-sized version of the Sony VW1000ES


Runco X200i - a huge chassis for a single-chip projector, looked quite bright on the 120" Stewart 1.3 screen. The 3D was the least painful of all that I saw at the show so, by default, gets top marks for that. The overall image quality didn't seem to be anything terribly mind-blowing especially for the (5 figure) price.


Runco LS12d - 3 chipper on the same 120" screen. Again, pain free 3D which was great, the image looked punchy, bright and colourful and still retained good black levels. Pretty impressed with this one.


Runco SC35D - 168" screen, 2D looked great, excellent black level considering how many lumens it must have been pumping out. I didn't ask the price, but I am assuming it was - a lot.


Sorry if this is all a little subjective, its the best I can do given my current state, having been up since 4.30am tongue.gif
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post #67 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 04:13 PM
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nice report danieledmunds smile.gif
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post #68 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Here is my report from CEDIA, its been a long day and I realised a few things:
Trying to cram it into one day is hard work
I am really not into 3D
I don't ever need to see 'The Art of Flight' ever again
I'll start with my favourite of the show: Sim2 M.150 - This was the only home theater projector Sim2 had on display (they had the Pro C4 as well). They were showing it on a 107" Stewart Screen (standard 1.3 gain I think) there was a bit of ambient light coming in from the door and some low lamps. It seemed to make good on its 1100 lumen claim and the black levels were excellent, perhaps not quite as good as LCOS but so close as to not be an issue. The colour reproduction was what hooked me on this, just gorgeous. I have never seen a bulb based projector produce such subtle dark shades and the neon clothing in the demo just popped off the screen. It was very sharp, as expected and suprisingly bright. Not sure if it is quite bright enough for my setup but given a bit of gain with a screen it could probably work. I also waited until the end of the demo movie to see if I could hear how noisy the projector was as people have commented on this. I couldn't hear anything terrible but it was mounted quite high up in an enclosure but it didn't sound like an air conditioner... I must have spent about an hour watching this...

Sony VW1000ES - Bright and punchy, probably the best non-DLP projector I saw, overall picture quality was excellent. Interestingly, it probably doesn't have as high a native contrast as the JVCs but the dynamic iris does such a good job that I actually preferred the Sony. It had what I can only describe as a more DLPy look than the JVCs. Seriously bright, they had it on a 150" Stewart screen in a totally light controlled room, it didn't seem to have any problem filling it. They were also showing this at the Screen Innovations on a Black Diamond screen with some ambient light and it looked good but far better in a light controlled room. I have to say though, the 2k to 4k upscaling didn't work miracles for me and on closer inspection, looked a little CFI-y. Obviously the 4K content looked great and I would probably take this over their similarly priced 84" 4K TV.
Sony HW50 - They had this on the show floor with loads of ambient light on 84" black diamond screen, it looked pretty washed out in these conditions. They are saying its 1700 lumens but I know that my IN83 produces similar lumen numbers and doesn't look as washed out on a grey wall with several lights on. Hard to tell how good it actually was from the demo.
 

 

 

 

I would agree 100% with your SIM2 M150 observations.  I would add that I was in the demo room around lunch time on Friday.  The room was empty save for the SIM2 representative.  I stood under the projector, inside the room and asked him to kill the sound track.  I did not hear anything that should be a problem.  The liquid cooled LED projectors seem to have a slight advantage in lumen's/brightness over the air cooled Delta LED light engines. 

 

I also was not favorably impressed with the 2K to 4K up conversion for the Sony VW1000ES.  The 4K James Bond clip did looked fantastic though.

 

The Sony HW50 was so poorly displayed I think it was impossible to have any opinion regarding its quality.

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post #69 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 05:18 PM
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Hi any measurement / acoustic programs appreciate any reports on this.
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post #70 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 06:10 PM
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I saw the same projectors. I was surprised by the Mits. The new 8000 looked good on 3D to me. The new 3d Glasses are much brighter. I was able to get them to close the curtains since it was quite when I visited the booth. No ghosting as expected with DLP. The JVC demo used poor film clips in my opinion. These were prototypes so I really cant make a judgement if the issue have been fixed. They were also using the old glasses on the show floor. I like the Sony 4k 1000 but it is out of my price range. The Epson seemed similar to last years model.
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post #71 of 85 Old 09-07-2012, 09:01 PM
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I'm not sure which projector it was, but Projection Design was showing a very large 3-chip DLP running Dolby 3D glasses in a demo room off the show floor. This was my first experience of Dolby 3D, and it was impressively good. They had a door open in the room, so it's hard to give a definitive impression, but I liked it.

I also spent some time with the M.150. I must say that my impression was more positive than when it was demoed for me previously. It's impossible to evaluate sound levels on the show floor, and the projector was semi-isolated from the viewing room, so i can't comment on whether this projector was quieter than the one I saw before. I didn't notice the pronounced strobing that I saw previously, but with my high flicker sensitivity, this projector is unfortunately not for me. I do still see some color separation and a more pronounced DLP refresh than on a 3-chip machine.

The Projection Design LED (same chassis as the DPI dVision LED) looked nice as well. I believe it is louder than the SIM2, so it really probably needs to be in a booth or a hush box. FWIW, I didn't see any RBE on this machine, but the content was totally different, so I can't make a fair comparison. They did mention that they have a new super high precision lens, analogous to buying something like an L-series lens for a Canon camera. Definitely seemed top notch.

I thought the Darblet was pretty neat.

If you get a chance to go to the Steinway Lyngdorf demo (in the "Denver" room in the Marriott), it's worth a listen. They were using a gunfight from the movie "Open Range" as one of the demo clips. Holy cow.

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post #72 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 06:37 AM
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Anyone seen the Panasonic AE8000 projector? I'm very interested in this. The only information I've seen thus far is from Projector Central.... they gave it a great review.... although pricing is still TBD. Also, I wondered if they are showing any acoustically transparent screens... I'm planning on pulling the trigger soon on the Seymour Screen Excellence Enlightor 4K. And, finally, as two other posters have asked... anything on a new Paradigm Studio line or other offerings?
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post #73 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 10:57 AM
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Was anyone showing AVRs or preamps with true 11.2?

David Ferebee
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post #74 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 11:07 AM
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Was anyone showing AVRs or preamps with true 11.2?
there's a new Denon AVR that does 11.2 .. it's back in a few of the blogs

EDIT That Denon Does Not have XLR outputs I was confused by mixing it up with the Maratz

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post #75 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 12:47 PM
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there's a new Denon AVR that does 11.2 PLUS it has XLR's 9 of them .. it's back in a few of the blogs

Here you are 11.2 with DTS X AV receiver

http://cave.hometheaterhifi.com/profiles/blogs/2012-cedia-show-report-robert-kozel

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cedia-videos/up-close-with-denons-new-avr-4520ci/
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post #76 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 12:56 PM
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Looks sweet , wonder if they have a retail price on this yet ??
Yeah I seen it on the Cave blog .. thanx for the links smile.gif

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post #77 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 01:05 PM
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I mis-spoke that Denon does NOT have XLR outputs sorry I confused it with the Marantz rolleyes.gif

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post #78 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

Could someone break down the new JVC projector line, when it becomes official.
Also curious if the Onkyo PR-SC5509 ever came to USA or remained European only, and if there's a PR-5510 and where they'll sell it.
TIA!

Home Theater Review posted a picture on Facebook of the PR-SC5509 being shown at CEDIA Expo 2012, so it appears this model FINALLY will be available here in the US. smile.gif
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post #79 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Home Theater Review posted a picture on Facebook of the PR-SC5509 being shown at CEDIA Expo 2012, so it appears this model FINALLY will be available here in the US. smile.gif

I was on the phone with Onkyo US about two weeks ago and the tech mentioned the 5509 was in his system and expected but no timeframe was available.

If all else fails ......... read the instructions.
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post #80 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

Could someone break down the new JVC projector line, when it becomes official.
Also curious if the Onkyo PR-SC5509 ever came to USA or remained European only, and if there's a PR-5510 and where they'll sell it.
TIA!

Home Theater Review posted a picture on Facebook of the PR-SC5509 being shown at CEDIA Expo 2012, so it appears this model FINALLY will be available here in the US. smile.gif

It definitely was there at CEDIA. I put my own two hands on it. I couldn't wait any longer and bought a 4311 earlier this year but may have to reconsider. wink.gif

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post #81 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 05:36 PM
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Looks sweet , wonder if they have a retail price on this yet ??
Yeah I seen it on the Cave blog .. thanx for the links smile.gif

2499 on Amazon
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post #82 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Home Theater Review posted a picture on Facebook of the PR-SC5509 being shown at CEDIA Expo 2012, so it appears this model FINALLY will be available here in the US. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandview View Post

I was on the phone with Onkyo US about two weeks ago and the tech mentioned the 5509 was in his system and expected but no timeframe was available.
FINALLY ! ! ! ! ! of coarse
the 5010 is just being released now too... . So it's late .. I want a PR-SC5510 now ! ! ! !

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post #83 of 85 Old 09-08-2012, 08:03 PM
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post #84 of 85 Old 09-09-2012, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
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Very nice Apple approved: Paradigm’s CT 2.1 speaker system
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cedia-videos/apple-approved-paradigms-2-1-ct-speaker-system/
so I wonder which will sound best
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/digital_music_solutions/x300a/images_and_video/index.html

I think a better comparison for the KEF X300A might be the Paradigm A2 active monitors - $729 / pair after choosing a decent finish & stands.
http://paradigm.com/shift/powered/index.php
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post #85 of 85 Old 09-09-2012, 08:12 AM
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