What Are Your Favorite Projectors? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 58 Old 10-27-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by benine View Post

Started 2 years ago with the Epson 8350: Loved it! No problems!

Got the urge to upgrade to 3d!

Epson 5020!
1> Great price
2> Super bright with lots of ambient lighting
3> 3d is awesome to behold
4> Dual inputs: Computer surfing and watching football
5> Highly recommend it!

Yup. I want the 5020 or 5030 for side-by-side computer gaming and 3D. That will be my next upgrade.
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post #32 of 58 Old 10-27-2013, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post

What is it that give DLP "image quality superiority" over JVC LCoS?

Louis

It is very hard to say, I have been trying to narrow down what exactly gives the dlp look but it seems hard to do. Maybe it is the small amount of noise we can see on a single chip dlp that we have grown accustomed to, maybe it's the extra bit of sharpness that whilst minimal compared to lcos is still present. What I do know is I can't see myself going with a non dlp (though lcos has tempted me recently).
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post #33 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post

What is it that give DLP "image quality superiority" over JVC LCoS?
It is very hard to say, I have been trying to narrow down what exactly gives the dlp look but it seems hard to do. Maybe it is the small amount of noise we can see on a single chip dlp that we have grown accustomed to, maybe it's the extra bit of sharpness that whilst minimal compared to lcos is still present. What I do know is I can't see myself going with a non dlp (though lcos has tempted me recently).

IMHO the DLP look is good right up until you start seeing the rainbows everywhere. Also, ymmv, but I started getting crushing headaches anytime I watched my DLP for more than a half hour or so. There also seemed to be a high-pitched whine from the color wheel rotation. After switching to JVC all those problems went away (although there's still a hushed whine from the JVC's fan). I'll never go back to DLP unless they come out with a highly affordable 3-chip model (color wheels? never again).

In my personal experience, if you're not sensitive to rainbows, don't get headaches, and can find a projector without the high-pitched color wheel whine (or have a hush box, or are not sensitive to high-pitched sounds), then DLP is probably a decent choice. By all reports, DLP is better at 3D than other technologies.
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post #34 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin Morgan View Post

IMHO the DLP look is good right up until you start seeing the rainbows everywhere. Also, ymmv, but I started getting crushing headaches anytime I watched my DLP for more than a half hour or so. There also seemed to be a high-pitched whine from the color wheel rotation. After switching to JVC all those problems went away (although there's still a hushed whine from the JVC's fan). I'll never go back to DLP unless they come out with a highly affordable 3-chip model (color wheels? never again).

In my personal experience, if you're not sensitive to rainbows, don't get headaches, and can find a projector without the high-pitched color wheel whine (or have a hush box, or are not sensitive to high-pitched sounds), then DLP is probably a decent choice. By all reports, DLP is better at 3D than other technologies.

I have to agree with this, I cannot and never have been able to see rainbows so DLP for me it is close to perfect. I thought I should add and correct me if I am mistaking, for those unaware that when you remove the color wheel and use a three chip design as I believe most cinemas use, the rainbow effect is no longer a concern. I do dream one day of owning a 3 chip 4k dlp front projector. As I have said before JVC's are the only projectors that really tempted me to go with a non dlp again they really are so very good.

With projectors the best thing one can do is see it for themselves. Some may care more or less about black levels and be more concerned with another area, some people can't stand DLP because of the rainbows they see, some hate DI's. The best way to decrease buyers remorse is to test and test. Reading is also useful as it may help you be aware of flaws you may otherwise miss in demos that could leave you unhappy later on.
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post #35 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mdrawlins View Post

After seeing countless pj in different showrooms, home theaters, and reading all the reviews possible, in the realm of "possible and affordable" for the common man, DLP when done right is hard to beat. even now after a good 10 years of solid technology improvements, JVC for best black levels, but there is definitely an image quality superiority to DLP when calibrated well, imo. InFocus was the king of DLP until they bowed out.

I dont think InFocus ever were "kings of DLP". I think that spot pretty much always has belonged to Projectiondesign or Sim2.
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post #36 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 10:55 AM
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Disclaimer: This is my first ever projector project; please forgive my ignorance smile.gif

We are remodeling the basement and I think I have figured out what I should get; rather you can say my pocket has decided for me. I'm gonna get an Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 2030 1080p 3D 3LCD projector and a monoprice 133" HD White. My local BB has the projector in red tag for $913 (after tax) and the screen will run $645.50 delivered, so a total of $1560 to get me started.

Does anyone have the same projector? I'd love to hear alternate ideas from you gurus. I will be using my existing audio equipment.

** Question: The image below is what the Epson calculator estimates for the projector; the projector is at 11'11" from the screen/wall.



From what I have read, the best seating position for a screen that size is 14' - 18'. Will that fact that the projector is in front of my seat cause any grief? Does the throw distance of 11'11" - 14'4" mean the projector can be placed anywhere in that range? Even if that is true, it'll still be on top of me if not in front. I am asking because I always thought the projector has to be behind you.

I'd appreciate any insight you can share. Have a great day.

Freddy ..
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post #37 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 12:34 PM
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panny 8000 -
If this is PT-AE8000U yes. I own the exact same one. I love it. Projected on a 140 in. screen in my loft.
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post #38 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 06:15 PM
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My Sony HW30 has been a fine machine. Stable performance, impressive in all aspects -- totally sold me on 3D.
I wasn't even going to set up for 3D, but the Sony came with glasses, so I bought a cheap 3D blue ray player that
included a 3D copy of Pandora -- could not believe what I was seeing on my screen.

My only complaint was that additional glasses were over $100 a pair, but then I discovered the PS3 glasses @ $20
a pair work just fine. Something I learned on AVS Forum BTW.
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post #39 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 11:07 PM
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if it's not expensive and you don't see rainbows, it will be a DLP

if it's expensive, it will be an LCOS model

if sky's the limit, there are quite a few exotic choices to play with, maybe even rolling a twin 9" gun CRT setup



if the word LCD was in your answer to the question, a wonderful world awaits your future wink.gif
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post #40 of 58 Old 10-28-2013, 11:55 PM
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Ptae 8000 Panasonic it's great both 2D and 3D can't fault it.The smooth screen that Panasonic do. To me that makes them better than all others.
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post #41 of 58 Old 10-29-2013, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctmooregottapee View Post

if it's not expensive and you don't see rainbows, it will be a DLP

if it's expensive, it will be an LCOS model

if sky's the limit, there are quite a few exotic choices to play with, maybe even rolling a twin 9" gun CRT setup



if the word LCD was in your answer to the question, a wonderful world awaits your future wink.gif

What makes you think lcos is better at the higher end then dlp?
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post #42 of 58 Old 10-29-2013, 07:41 AM
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LCoS is supposed to have better blacks and colors from what I understand. They somehow are also known to have the, "least visible pixels".

I dont konw if that really comes into play with the 1080p or 4k/4k upscaling projectors though.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #43 of 58 Old 10-29-2013, 08:56 AM
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My first projector is an Optoma hd100x (cheap hd20) and I must say for the money (900$) I definetaly got my money worth with this.

Now this projector sent me down the rabbit hole of AV so for the past few years every spare nickel has gone into av equipment and last friday I took over a slightly used Sony HW50 (210 hours on the lamp) and this is indeed a much better projector, it also costs four times as much as the optoma.

The cheaper dlp's are great if you dont have all that much to spend and their quality is in my opionion much better than the large LCD displays.

The hw50 is better in both brightness and blacklevels (granted my optoma was near 1900 hours) the hw50 in high lamp mode is much quieter than the low lamp mode than cheap dlp's even less in low wich I'm using.

As for tech I think the lcos trumps cheaper dlps easily, they cost much more though and the cheap dlps offer a big screen and good value if you aren't sensitive to rainbows and can live with the fan/wheel noise.
For example I would feel much more at ease setting up a suboptimal room with a <1k projector than a 4k one.
Say in a bright living room with a pulldown screen for movies and games it will be much less dominating than a 90" lcd screen behemoth.

Yeah, again faverourite projector is as much a question of budget than tech or brand imo.
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post #44 of 58 Old 10-29-2013, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post

My first projector is an Optoma hd100x (cheap hd20) and I must say for the money (900$) I definetaly got my money worth with this.

Now this projector sent me down the rabbit hole of AV so for the past few years every spare nickel has gone into av equipment and last friday I took over a slightly used Sony HW50 (210 hours on the lamp) and this is indeed a much better projector, it also costs four times as much as the optoma.

The cheaper dlp's are great you dont have all that much to spend and their quality is in my opionion much better than the large LCD displays.

The hw50 is better in both brightness and blacklevels (granted my optoma was near 1900 hours) the hw50 in high lamp mode is much quieter than the low lamp mode than cheap dlp's even less in low wich I'm using.

As for tech I think the lcos trumps cheaper dlps easily, they cost much more though and the cheap dlps offer a big screen and good value if you aren't sensitive to rainbows and can live with the fan/wheel noise.
For example I would feel much more at ease setting up a suboptimal room with a <1k projector than a 4k one.
Say in a bright living room with a pulldown screen for movies and games it will be much less dominating than 90" lcd screen behemoth.

Yeah, again faverourite projector is as much a question of budget than tech or brand imo.

Once again (another person assumed the same) what makes you think lcos is better then dlp at the higher end? Have you seen any higher end dlps like a sim2 or Runco. I personally only last saw a high end home theater dlp years ago (it was a a sim 2 cannot recall which model) and I can't think of any lcos that was clearly superior in any way (black levels probably would be true but I would need to see them closer together). My point is DLP isn't just for the low end.
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post #45 of 58 Old 10-29-2013, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Once again (another person assumed the same) what makes you think lcos is better then dlp at the higher end? Have you seen any higher end dlps like a sim2 or Runco. I personally only last saw a high end home theater dlp years ago (it was a a sim 2 cannot recall which model) and I can't think of any lcos that was clearly superior in any way (black levels probably would be true but I would need to see them closer together). My point is DLP isn't just for the low end.

Runco still has Toby McGuire as spiderman on their home page, HA!

I have never seen those projectors myself but would be interested to see the Lcos and high end DLP next to each other as well. But for me if I am going to spend the amount to get a Runco or Sim 2 it better be LED so I dont have to ever replace the lamp.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #46 of 58 Old 10-30-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Once again (another person assumed the same) what makes you think lcos is better then dlp at the higher end? Have you seen any higher end dlps like a sim2 or Runco. I personally only last saw a high end home theater dlp years ago (it was a a sim 2 cannot recall which model) and I can't think of any lcos that was clearly superior in any way (black levels probably would be true but I would need to see
them closer together). My point is DLP isn't just for the low end.

No I haven't, and I don't mention them for that very reason
and in short I don't, I have no basis to make any such conclusion.

I also don't think these and my LCOS projector are anywhere near the same budget line.
Does Sim2\Runco sell DLP's with 1500 lumens or more in the <4k$ market ?
I honestly don't know.

The simple fact is I can't afford a Sim2 or Runco projector at 20k$, all common sense considered I shouldn't have spent the money on the HW50 either (And I got mine used).

You might just as well be asking me why I would ever consider buying a Ford estate car when the lamborghini Gallardo exist...

I'm not even considering myself much of an 'AV-phile' I just want a good all purpose entertainment projector with low fan noise, the Sony simply checked the largest amount of boxes.
Neither do I have absolute 100% light control so I would probably not see much of any difference between the Sony or JVC in regards to the black levels which pretty much was the only other brand easily available in Norway.

My choice doesn't say the JVC (or any other) is a bad projector just because I decided on the Sony.

I think It comes through quite clearly that I'm was not comparing a 4k$ LCOS with the upper 10k$++ DLP's but the cheaper ones with bottom of the line optics and high noise levels and lots of light leakage. And now with the LCOS I could host for my DLP sensitive friends, without having to mix migraine medication in the popcorn.

And quite frankly, why would the fact that I like my LCOS be so disturbing to you ?
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post #47 of 58 Old 10-30-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post

No I haven't, and I don't mention them for that very reason
and in short I don't, I have no basis to make any such conclusion.

I also don't think these and my LCOS projector are anywhere near the same budget line.
Does Sim2\Runco sell DLP's with 1500 lumens or more in the <4k$ market ?
I honestly don't know.

The simple fact is I can't afford a Sim2 or Runco projector at 20k$, all common sense considered I shouldn't have spent the money on the HW50 either (And I got mine used).

You might just as well be asking me why I would ever consider buying a Ford estate car when the lamborghini Gallardo exist...

I'm not even considering myself much of an 'AV-phile' I just want a good all purpose entertainment projector with low fan noise, the Sony simply checked the largest amount of boxes.
Neither do I have absolute 100% light control so I would probably not see much of any difference between the Sony or JVC in regards to the black levels which pretty much was the only other brand easily available in Norway.

My choice doesn't say the JVC (or any other) is a bad projector just because I decided on the Sony.

I think It comes through quite clearly that I'm was not comparing a 4k$ LCOS with the upper 10k$++ DLP's but the cheaper ones with bottom of the line optics and high noise levels and lots of light leakage. And now with the LCOS I could host for my DLP sensitive friends, without having to mix migraine medication in the popcorn.

And quite frankly, why would the fact that I like my LCOS be so disturbing to you ?

It isn't, I like lcos (I didn't notice your response before btw). DLP also does have a gap, they are very good at the low end and high end compared to other techs but with not so much in the middle I have found. My only reason for saying such things is I have noticed many assuming lcos is the superior technology which isn't the case. I just wanted to ensure readers didn't wrongly get the impression that dlp was only for the low end.

I haven't had enough experience with the sony's but have seen a mitsibushi which uses sony lcos panels and was very impressed. Once again lcos is the only tech that has had me consider a non dlp seriously and if it where not for 4k soon I would very likely get one as the dlp's I want do not do 3d which is very important to me. I do very much so want to see the HW50 (also Runco do release projectors in the same sort of price range as a HW50, the runco ls1 is under $4000).
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post #48 of 58 Old 11-08-2013, 06:22 AM
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Must have forgotten to reply here.

But yeah I think we agree, although I haven't seen any sim2 or runco projectors, one factor is I can't find any local dealers here in Norway. Even the sony's or JVC's are just openly marketed from one local webstore for enthusiasts, now Im sure they or some of the others store could import them if requested (or I could import one myself)

Thats of course not anything I can fault either sim2 or Runco, that is simply a reality from living in a small country of 5 mil citizens, and if not for international forums like this I'd probably not even know they existed.

I did google the ls1, and I doubt it could work for me, I dont have a purely dedicated room. Its basically my living room. I just don't have a better half to stop me so it is fairly masked but I don't have 100% light control and a grey aprox 0.8 gain screen so I would probably disregard the lumis with it's <800 AL light ouput vs the hw50's rating of almost a thousand more.

I also wanted a multi purpose and quiet projector since I am seated very close to it.

If am going to say favorite I would honestly go with the cheap <1k dlp's they offer great value and people who otherwise wouldn't experience big screens do because of them, and the more people who enjoy this hobby the merrier :-)
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post #49 of 58 Old 11-10-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post

But yeah I think we agree, although I haven't seen any sim2 or runco projectors, one factor is I can't find any local dealers here in Norway.

Runco is perhaps understandable, since it's a small American company, and its global reach is limited. But it seems strange that an Italian company like Sim2 has no local presence in each European country, including Norway. confused.gif
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post #50 of 58 Old 11-12-2013, 04:26 AM
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I can only theorize, but I'm guessing trade politics is the simpler answer.

Secondly it could be that these projectors are simply so expensive that people who can afford them buy them out of country and pays the vat themselves.

Wild conjecture:
We in Norway do have some of the most powerful consumer laws in the world, one of which states that if an electronic device fails to operate as intended for a five year period, the retailer is responsible to cover repairs and the whole sale can be voided by the customer after 3 such incidents.

This of course means most retailers has to sell a large enough volume of units to actually sustain this, and when the market for such high end projectors are probably in under a dozen units annually (I could be wildly wrong here) they simply must charge an extra fee to cover this mandated policy, thus making self import much more attractive than with lower price items.

On top of this there is a large vacuum of marketing, I simply didn't know about them, not that I could afford them if I did :P

Although, this thread has been pulled enough off topic for now , and I apologize for my part in it.
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post #51 of 58 Old 11-14-2013, 07:53 AM
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I'm a big DLP fan. The Sharp XV-Z30000 is the Bang for the Buck champ. It's a jack of all trades, master of none (maybe 3D). Check out the reviews on PR.com. Also, the Forum thread...
+1 on the Darbee. Also a fan of DaLite High Power screen. Awesome synergy. smile.gif
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post #52 of 58 Old 11-14-2013, 08:43 AM
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I'm a big DLP fan. The Sharp XV-Z30000 is the Bang for the Buck champ. It's a jack of all trades, master of none (maybe 3D). Check out the reviews on PR.com. Also, the Forum thread...
+1 on the Darbee. Also a fan of DaLite High Power screen. Awesome synergy. smile.gif

ditto...
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post #53 of 58 Old 11-14-2013, 12:53 PM
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I've owned digital projectors for many, many years; from the Sony VPH-VL400 LCD, Toshiba LCOS, NEC HT1000, Sony Ruby, JVC RS2, JVC RS20, JVC RS40, and Epson 6010 to my Sony VPL-VW1000ES. This latest 4K projector is by far the best I've ever seen or owned. biggrin.gif And consider that I received a NEW projector at B-Stock price, I couldn't be happier with AVS Sales. I'm looking to take advantage of the upgrade to make the a 1100ES, and basically give me a new 1100ES, 4K Server, extra lamp, etc. at about half the MSRP. Sure, that's still expensive, but I'm worth it and you can't take the money with you. As I approach 60, it's definitely worth it to own the best as I spend a lot of time in my Home Theater. Same logic for owning a great, comfortable King size bed and awesome mattress. If you have it, spend it and enjoy. Life is too short and it's only paper and numbers in some account if you don't use it. cool.gif

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post #54 of 58 Old 11-14-2013, 04:24 PM
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I've owned digital projectors for many, many years; from the Sony VPH-VL400 LCD, Toshiba LCOS, NEC HT1000, Sony Ruby, JVC RS2, JVC RS20, JVC RS40, and Epson 6010 to my Sony VPL-VW1000ES. This latest 4K projector is by far the best I've ever seen or owned. biggrin.gif And consider that I received a NEW projector at B-Stock price, I couldn't be happier with AVS Sales. I'm looking to take advantage of the upgrade to make the a 1100ES, and basically give me a new 1100ES, 4K Server, extra lamp, etc. at about half the MSRP. Sure, that's still expensive, but I'm worth it and you can't take the money with you. As I approach 60, it's definitely worth it to own the best as I spend a lot of time in my Home Theater. Same logic for owning a great, comfortable King size bed and awesome mattress. If you have it, spend it and enjoy. Life is too short and it's only paper and numbers in some account if you don't use it. cool.gif

How do you find these Sony VPL-VW1000ES projectors at B stock prices?
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post #55 of 58 Old 11-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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I didn't find them. I bought one of the final B-stock Sonys from AVS and received a new one. It's likely that Sony sent new ones to AVS. I guess they didn't have any left or were clearing out their 1000ES models. I guess some or all of us that ordered used B-stocks simply were blessed with new ones instead of slightly used ones. AVS still called them B-stock. Mine had zero hours on it and was new IMHO. When I upgrade, it will be an 1100ES with very low hours. OK, maybe not so low, as I'm watching a lot of movies on it nightly. biggrin.gif

Even if it wasn't new and an under 200 hour B-stock, it was definitely worth it. AVS is the best and this was a great deal and way to get in on an 1100ES with the upgrade for around half the MSRP.

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post #56 of 58 Old 11-15-2013, 10:43 AM
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I didn't find them. I bought one of the final B-stock Sonys from AVS and received a new one. It's likely that Sony sent new ones to AVS. I guess they didn't have any left or were clearing out their 1000ES models. I guess some or all of us that ordered used B-stocks simply were blessed with new ones instead of slightly used ones. AVS still called them B-stock. Mine had zero hours on it and was new IMHO. When I upgrade, it will be an 1100ES with very low hours. OK, maybe not so low, as I'm watching a lot of movies on it nightly. biggrin.gif

Even if it wasn't new and an under 200 hour B-stock, it was definitely worth it. AVS is the best and this was a great deal and way to get in on an 1100ES with the upgrade for around half the MSRP.

Damn! frown.gif
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post #57 of 58 Old 11-15-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

I didn't find them. I bought one of the final B-stock Sonys from AVS and received a new one. It's likely that Sony sent new ones to AVS. I guess they didn't have any left or were clearing out their 1000ES models. I guess some or all of us that ordered used B-stocks simply were blessed with new ones instead of slightly used ones. AVS still called them B-stock. Mine had zero hours on it and was new IMHO. When I upgrade, it will be an 1100ES with very low hours. OK, maybe not so low, as I'm watching a lot of movies on it nightly. biggrin.gif

Even if it wasn't new and an under 200 hour B-stock, it was definitely worth it. AVS is the best and this was a great deal and way to get in on an 1100ES with the upgrade for around half the MSRP.

Half of MSRP is still way out of my league.
I think it's a chicken or the egg issue. there is no incentive for manufacturers to get into 4K until there is more content.
Until there are more displays available, the content providers won't upgrade to 4K cameras, etc. They are probably still amortizing the costs of stepping up to 1080p.
Meanwhile Sony has the field to themselves. Without competition, they can ask what they want and try and recoup the development costs from the early adopters.
What would be interesting is if a DLP manufacturer stepped up to the plate. The technology "battle" would spur competition and lower costs for all. Similar to what has happened to the front PJ market the last few years.
Are you listening TI and Benq? smile.gif
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post #58 of 58 Old 11-15-2013, 12:09 PM
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Half of MSRP is still way out of my league. I think it's a chicken or the egg issue. there is no incentive for manufacturers to get into 4K until there is more content. Until there are more displays available, the content providers won't upgrade to 4K cameras, etc. They are probably still amortizing the costs of stepping up to 1080p. Meanwhile Sony has the field to themselves. Without competition, they can ask what they want and try and recoup the development costs from the early adopters. What would be interesting is if a DLP manufacturer stepped up to the plate. The technology "battle" would spur competition and lower costs for all. Similar to what has happened to the front PJ market the last few years. Are you listening TI and Benq? smile.gif My $.02.

I'd add JVC to that list. And yes, no 4K content is an big issue. However, after the motherboard upgrade to HDMI 2, my projector in essence will be an 1100ES and my cost for it will be around half the MSRP. That price is totally out of reach for me, but what I will end up spending for an 1100ES after in-home upgrade, 4K player, tablet, and extra lamp, was in reach. I still had some trepidations spending that kind of money, even at the sale price. However, once I saw the awesome PQ of upscaled 2K and superior lens clarity, I was happy with the decision. Knowing that I'll be 4K ready when more content comes is a big plus too. Early adoption is always expensive, but as I say, life is sometimes too short to wait. The Sony 1100ES is likely the best quality projector at any price under $60K and as pointed out, the only 4K projector too. If other manufacturers finally get on board with 4K, that should bring the price down, but I suspect it will also bring down the quality of the lens initially. I believe that the lens in the Sony 500/600 is not as good as the 1000/1100. That's the main differentiation between them and why they are less expensive. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm lead to believe at this point. So, considering that I'll own an 1100ES, 4K player, etc. for what amounts to the same costs for the 600ES and similar extras, I'm a happy early adopter.

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