What Are Your Favorite Screen Materials? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 09:18 PM
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Come on, Scott by having this poll, let's say Elunevision is voted to be the most popular, don't tell me that data won't be used as a way to persuade Elunevision to be one of the advertisers. You should know better than a favourite screen can NOT be determined unless other aspects such as throw distance, room paint, screen size, projector type, 2D or 3D application, AT or non-AT and the list goes on.

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post #32 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 09:21 PM
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Hi All

 

When it comes to screens I found that the most effect on the movie experience is the control and detail of the sound.

 

So when I looked at a screen and money was scarce I found very cheap solutions.

 

My friend and I share a large house and we have a movie room with an expensive( expensive to me) screen ( mirrodex)

 

I was looking for options like painting the walls and other alternatives .

 

I came up with a very inexpensive solution for a screen.

 

I bought a white melamine board at a 10TH of the price of a screen.

 

All I had to do is reduce the blue in the settings of the projector and the cheap screen was equal if not better than the mirrodex.

 

The white was whiter and with the down toned blue the black was pitch black.

 

 

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post #33 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 09:32 PM
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Scott. Thanks for the clarification of the buying guide. You don't have to convince me, I know you to be honest and to speak the truth. Unfortunately, the general type of question you ask will normally be responded to with the one the respondent has. I love my X. Its perfect. Most unfortunately have a clue as to how to judge a screen material even in their own HT environment. For example HP 2.4 has many faults, even Da-lite does not recommend it highly, but the fact that it has a high gain if ones eyes and projector are close to being at the same height, get screen blinded by the bright picture it throws enable large screen sizes with 1000 Lumen class projectors. they simply are unaware of its faults. You can relate from your audio days, a cheap louder speaker will often be chosen over a much better speaker played not as loud. Firehawk was a great screen for placement in a room with reflective walls and some ambient light but it also had many flaws ameliorated by the new Firehawk G4 at a cost of lower gain.

Another problem is the proliferation of screen manufacturers and new screen materials. even I can not keep up with all of them.

I could go on and on and trash many screens owned by forum members. I]t comes down to application and environment, screen size, the brightness wanted for a projector usually with a screen size too big for the projector requiring a high gain screen and their many flaws. For example if one is going to watch with the lights on, SI makes screens for that application but I would not consider them to be good in the things a screen should and should not do. And for some of these things there are no metrics. Screen smoothness and the ability to resolve without bleed on off pixel grids. Sharpness. The ability to sharply resolve a 4K or UHD grid. We are pretty much stuck with gain, although many manufacturers for competitive reasons rate their screen higher in gain than they are.. Half gain angle. Gain uniformity. Minimum throw to avoid hot spotting. Most don't even know what hot spotting is.
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post #34 of 51 Old 12-01-2013, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Come on, Scott by having this poll, let's say Elunevision is voted to be the most popular, don't tell me that data won't be used as a way to persuade Elunevision to be one of the advertisers. You should know better than a favourite screen can NOT be determined unless other aspects such as throw distance, room paint, screen size, projector type, 2D or 3D application, AT or non-AT and the list goes on.

Of course, AVS depends on advertising to survive; there wouldn't be an AVS today without it, and it would be naive to think otherwise. So of course, our ad-sales people try to persuade all relevant manufacturers to advertise. But I can assure you that has nothing whatsoever to do with my questions about members' favorite products, including screen materials. I'm posting these questions to get a sense of what members of the community use. I understand that selecting the best screen depends on many variables, as you and Mark Haflich have pointed out. But if a bunch of AVS members have selected a particular type of screen for a particular set of circumstances, and a bunch of pro reviewers have also selected that type of screen—or at least reviewed it favorably—that says something useful to me in my effort to come up with a list of highly rated screens. For example, would you not agree that the Stewart StudioTek 130 is generally a good choice for a 2D projector in a dark room with relatively non-reflective walls? Most of my reviewer friends think so, as do many AVS members. Do you not think that a Screen Innovations Black Diamond is a good choice for a screen that mitigates ambient light? How about a SeymourAV Center Stage XD for acoustical transparency? I certainly prefer woven over microperf for acoustical transparency in a home theater, as do many others. These are not the only choices, for sure, but they are generally regarded as good choices, which is what I'm trying to determine.

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post #35 of 51 Old 12-01-2013, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Scott. Thanks for the clarification of the buying guide. You don't have to convince me, I know you to be honest and to speak the truth. Unfortunately, the general type of question you ask will normally be responded to with the one the respondent has. I love my X. Its perfect. Most unfortunately have a clue as to how to judge a screen material even in their own HT environment. For example HP 2.4 has many faults, even Da-lite does not recommend it highly, but the fact that it has a high gain if ones eyes and projector are close to being at the same height, get screen blinded by the bright picture it throws enable large screen sizes with 1000 Lumen class projectors. they simply are unaware of its faults. You can relate from your audio days, a cheap louder speaker will often be chosen over a much better speaker played not as loud. Firehawk was a great screen for placement in a room with reflective walls and some ambient light but it also had many flaws ameliorated by the new Firehawk G4 at a cost of lower gain.

Another problem is the proliferation of screen manufacturers and new screen materials. even I can not keep up with all of them.

I could go on and on and trash many screens owned by forum members. I]t comes down to application and environment, screen size, the brightness wanted for a projector usually with a screen size too big for the projector requiring a high gain screen and their many flaws. For example if one is going to watch with the lights on, SI makes screens for that application but I would not consider them to be good in the things a screen should and should not do. And for some of these things there are no metrics. Screen smoothness and the ability to resolve without bleed on off pixel grids. Sharpness. The ability to sharply resolve a 4K or UHD grid. We are pretty much stuck with gain, although many manufacturers for competitive reasons rate their screen higher in gain than they are.. Half gain angle. Gain uniformity. Minimum throw to avoid hot spotting. Most don't even know what hot spotting is.


You make plenty of good points here, and I'm going to try to explain them as best I can in the preamble of the screen buying guide. But I still believe it's worthwhile to come up with a list of a few materials that are generally considered to be good for various applications, such as black-hole room, reflective room, ambient light, acoustical transparency, etc. And I'm not much interested in new makers or materials, only in well-proven and generally well-regarded materials for their particular applications.


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post #36 of 51 Old 12-01-2013, 07:21 PM
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Seymour AV Centerstage XD. Having the speakers hidden is an underratedly awesome aspect of AT screens, gives everything a nice, clean look.

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post #37 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 09:42 AM
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Jeez guys. Who cares if the sales people use the data to attract companies to put a little logo in one of the boxes up above. How about just getting on with the discussion of which and why? You know, like we do with pretty much everything around here.

If nothing else, would it be the worst thing in the world for AVSforum to solicit advertisers that make some of the products we actually find good and tend to want to buy regardless?

In any case, to the question at hand, I run with a Wilsonart laminate. I still have 3-year-old hands in the house... If anyone knows of a better performing material that offers similar durability and cleaning efficiency, I'd love to hear about it.


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post #38 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Edit: I'll be going to Falcon Screens acoustically transparent screen in early 2014 due to a new build that demands an AT design.

Thank you for spelling that out the first time you used it. I hate it when people just assume everyone knows the acronyms in question...
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post #39 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 09:59 AM
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I have enjoyed the SnapAV Dragonfly AcoustiWeave Screens. I have installed many of these and love the simple set-up as well as the great image that they provide, considering it is an acoustic weave. Main Pro about it is that speakers can be place behind the screen not to be seen but also keeping the LCR's all at the same height for best acoustic performance.




http://www.snapav.com/p-349-df-sl-120-aw.aspx
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post #40 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

You make plenty of good points here, and I'm going to try to explain them as best I can in the preamble of the screen buying guide. But I still believe it's worthwhile to come up with a list of a few materials that are generally considered to be good for various applications, such as black-hole room, reflective room, ambient light, acoustical transparency, etc. And I'm not much interested in new makers or materials, only in well-proven and generally well-regarded materials for their particular applications.

Also to come to the defense of Scott here a bit - not everyone has the same levels of experience as the posters in this thread. I find such guides to be extremely valuable when coming into a new to me technical area by giving me a starting point, a reference and a way to start my research without having to digest a whole technical area to even decide where to dig deeper. What I find incredibly unhelpful and downright condescending are admonishments to "go search" or "hire a professional". That would be classified as feed back with zero value to me, and I wish such people would just keep their irrelevant and unhelpful thoughts to themselves. At the risk of going down a rat hole, that attitude is what has turned off most open source software to me - and unfortunately it seems to sneak into these forums from time to time as well. If you don't want to deal with noobs and their asking the same question over and over again the best way you can add value is to just ignore them at let someone who is willing to actually provide real help do so. Sorry... I'll get off my soapbox now.

Yes, what Scott is trying to do is not a panacea - but it can be an extremely valuable tool to someone who is thinking of getting a projector for the first time. And even if hiring a professional, at least having a basic understanding of key things to watch for is valuable in ensuring that that professional you are working with is really a professional after all. I eagerly await to see what Scott and AVSForum will produce. I've been reading these forums on and off for several years now - my church needs new screens and it's been beyond frustrating trying to reconcile all the terminology with the products offered to even find a starting point for where to explore for replacement screens (and projectors too). Yes, there is lots of information out there but I don't have time to dedicate to becoming an expert - and we will work with an integrator. But they worked with an integrator originally and the selection of what we have would easily be considered sub-optimal, at best. I wasn't involved in the initial install so the integrator could have been overridden by someone (probably having to do with money - it would not surprise me) - but before we invest a lot of very precious dollars in a new solution I want to be as reasonably informed as I can, and the guide that Scott is talking about would be awesome to help consolidate many of the nuggets of wisdom that would otherwise have to be teased out of hundreds of threads.
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post #41 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 10:20 AM
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Doc,

another option which many members have done for many years is approach me via PM and give them their exact home situation and I give them the answer at zero cost to them.

Scott, I do agree with you. In general, on the safe side, the Stewart and SI screens you recommended will be okay for most cases. I also agree that woven is much better than microperf for AT applications.

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post #42 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 05:13 PM
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I am waiting and reading intently for the buying guide. I am a front projection "noob", so this information would be helpful in decision making, sorry Doc

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post #43 of 51 Old 12-02-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


You make plenty of good points here, and I'm going to try to explain them as best I can in the preamble of the screen buying guide. But I still believe it's worthwhile to come up with a list of a few materials that are generally considered to be good for various applications, such as black-hole room, reflective room, ambient light, acoustical transparency, etc. And I'm not much interested in new makers or materials, only in well-proven and generally well-regarded materials for their particular applications.

Scott. Your interest really has nothing to do with it. For example, Stewart Firehawk G3 has long be considered as a go to material for certain conditions and I am sure many here own it. BUT It was just discontinued in favor of a screen material with less negative qualities or artifacts, Firehawk G4, which does a lot of things better but at the cost of a lower gain. Should the Buying Guide not consider the new material or should it recommend based on some votes here a discontinued material? The problem is further increased by the relatively few votes that have been cast here, and indeed there are not many votes total for a buying guide which must be published quickly if Santa (you know you look like Santa a bit) is to know what screen to cram down someone's chimney. Should the new material take the place of G3? After all, if the G3 had the lower gain of the G4, perhaps less would have purchased it even though G4 is better material. Likewise how about the new JKP Affinity 1.3, might be a great choice now when the top JKP gain before was only 1.1. I suspect it might even be a better choice now for 4K than Studeotec 130 G3, a popular choice here based on the few votes here so far. The sample of votes so far is not sufficient to make even a buying guide based on popularity even, a poor indicia in any case. Another problem is the votes for JKP 0.9. That was the first JKP to come out and Joe has quite the following. Later JKP 1.1 came out, if I remember correctly, and then 0.6 and just recently JKP 1.3. For most projectors JKP .9 would not be a good choice except for a smaller screen. Once you get up to say a 54 x 96, JKP 1.1 would be a better choice or even JKP 1.3. If one goes on the 3 votes for 0.9 with no indicia of screen size etc, one could think based on the tremendous knowledge of anyone casting a vote or posting their favorite, would think .9 to be somehow better..

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post #44 of 51 Old 12-03-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Stewart Studiotek 130 G3 is a remarkable screen...very bright and great color accuracy for calibration.

Edit: I'll be going to Falcon Screens acoustically transparent screen in early 2014 due to a new build that demands an AT design.

Thanks for the video. I'm new to the home theater scene and just had a new house built with a dedicated home theater room. I've been doing tons of research and trying to learn about the whole process. I was wondering if I bought a screen inline how it would arrive to my house and what would be involved in setting it up. This video answered that question and I enjoy reading peoples opinions on screens. Yes, I understand different conditions affect the type of screen needed but this helps us newbies get a basis as to what are some popular screens then I can do some of my own research.
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post #45 of 51 Old 12-03-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Thank you for spelling that out the first time you used it. I hate it when people just assume everyone knows the acronyms in question...

 

No problem man--in my line of work, I deal with acronyms non-stop, so I try to save others the horror when I can. ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by C130 View Post


Thanks for the video. I'm new to the home theater scene and just had a new house built with a dedicated home theater room. I've been doing tons of research and trying to learn about the whole process. I was wondering if I bought a screen inline how it would arrive to my house and what would be involved in setting it up. This video answered that question and I enjoy reading peoples opinions on screens. Yes, I understand different conditions affect the type of screen needed but this helps us newbies get a basis as to what are some popular screens then I can do some of my own research.

Happy you found the video helpful man! One of the main reasons I shot that video the way I did was because I searched for months for a video like it back when I was considering transitioning from my former motorized drop-down screen to the Stewart fixed 2:35 screen, but couldn't find any videos with the content I yearned for.  Getting a new screen is no small decision, so it helps to get some insight into what's waiting for you on the other side of the "purchase" button.

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post #46 of 51 Old 12-04-2013, 04:54 AM
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I did some very basic testing on some screen materials a few years back and I thought I would share my experience with you guys. This was done a few years back when I purchase some cheap screen material and made a 16:9 frame for it.

Below i will list the name of the materials i tested (back in 2009) and some observations for each. My reference at the time was a DRH MATT WHITE (Gain is 1.1 I think). screen material on a frame i made myself.

In order to test, I played Star Wars Revenge of the Sith and paused the image on Natalie Portman. The image had good contrast on my matt white surface and had good skins tones and Natalie is always easy on the eyes........ I paused the image and basically look at each of the materials listed below with no change in the projector calibration settings as I only had A4 size pieces to play with, so it wasn't the best way to do a 'proper' test:p

I was sent these pieces buy someone who did not want them so some manufacturers were not known and I went with what was written at the back of each piece of screen material. I will first list the name of the material below and then my initial observations underneath the name of the material. All comments are made whilst comparing to my reference screen. Where no manufacturer is mentioned, i have just put the name of the material that was written on the reverse of the screen material.

My room is a family room and not a bat cave.

So here you go.....

CARADA GREY 0.8
Blacks better, picture much dimmer with muted colors

CARADA BRILLIANT WHITE 1.4
Very good image, same as DRH material but slightly brighter as well! Impressed overall.

CARADA MATT WHITE 1.0
Same as DRH material. no change in picture.

SILVER VISION
Darker/dimmer image overall and a 'shiny surface sheen' very evident. Not impressed.

SILVER MATT
Brighter image, but screen 'grain' evident up close.

VIDEO SPECTRA 1.5
Brighter than DRH, with better color saturation

HIGH CONTRAST DA MATT
Better black level,good colors, but image was much dimmer than DRH.

HIGH POWER
Very very bright image overall, but worse black level. Image comparable to Silverstar screen

CINEMA VISION
Same as DRH,no change in image quality

PEARL
Brighter image, but skin tone had a 'yellow tint'

GLASS BEADED
Black level worse than DRH, image was however brighter with good colors

HIGH CONTRAST CINEMA VISION
Very slight increase in black level, Yellow tint on skin tones.

HIGH CONTRAST MATT WHITE
Very very nice image, good color saturation, slightly brighter image with better blacks. Impressed overall.

SILVERSTAR 6.0
BRIGHT, BRIGHT, AND BRIGHT!! Black level was worse than DRH, After initial wow moment, not impressed.

Firehawk G3 material!. Comments below......

FIREHAWK G3 1.25

WOW!! Image was brighter even though the screen material had a very dark look to it. Better color saturation and contrast, with better black levels. The picture was very impressive..................when viewed head on from the front.

When viewed from the sides, the image dims quite a lot. Still, I was very happy with the image from the front and impressed that such a dark screen can look so good. I reckon if I had a piece of material that covered the whole screen area, it would look much better even off axis. EDIT - I saw a FH G3 in a Best Buy and it was great off axis as well.

So there you have it. My adventure in screen material and the test results. So out of all of the materials, the ones I was most impressed with at the time (in no particular order) are: FIREHAWK, CARADA BRILLIANT WHITE 1.4, VIDEO SPECTRA 1.5, and HIGH CONTRAST MATT WHITE.

So looks like I am more partial to the whiter screens in my room. Probably due to the fact that my DRH material being up for a few years.

The images from the 4 i have mentioned above were better than my DRH screen, some in brightness, some in brightness and black level, some in color saturation.

If i had to narrow it down, it would probably have to be between FIREHAWK and HIGH CONTRAST MATT WHITE, based on my non scientific test:D.


2013 Update

Currently use a Stewart ST130 screen and it is absolutely fabulous:). Even in my non bat cave room. I think I have been spoiled on this screen. Great colors, sharpness and image punch.
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post #47 of 51 Old 12-06-2013, 05:54 AM
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wow - wide open topic

There is no "best answer", my favorite material was determined by getting samples, putting them on the wall, and try-out.
I definitely recommend others do same, it is so hard to just read and make a decision.

Below from 2008.

and comparing diff screen sizes ..... "small" ............................. "huge"
IMG_6476.JPG . IMG_6514.JPG

and trying all sorts of screen material
IMG_6764.JPG . IMG_6768.JPG

and viewing angles
IMG_6770.JPG . IMG_6772.JPG

I ended up going DW Laminate for my DIY curved 130" screen, build thread here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1029683/diy-curved-screen-with-structural-extruded-aluminum-metal-framing/30#post_15186244

>>DW laminate is robust, meaning when the image is so real and my 65lb dog jumps onto the screen....it survives!
Which is a reality for those with kids and dogs!

btw , I am working on a solution for the dog jumping onto the screen ... Using invisible fence to avoid dog jumping onto HT screen
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post #48 of 51 Old 12-06-2013, 07:32 AM
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Carada Brilliant White
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post #49 of 51 Old 12-06-2013, 10:04 AM
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Guess I'll throw in my vote to represent for all the DIY'ers out there, and say that while it probably doesn't have the gain advantages of a commercial screen material the Moleskin and Milliskin Matte White spandex is a great material for those wanting to build a screen on a budget. Remember, buying guides should take into consideration that not everyone is looking to build a $50,000+ dedicated home theater. Some of us are just getting started.

With that being said, Scott I think your guide should also at least mention good ol' Black Out Cloth (BOC) as a solid, and very cheap, starter material in addition to the Milliskin spandex.
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post #50 of 51 Old 12-06-2013, 12:18 PM
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Lusoscreen Screens.... a portuguese company.

Home cinema lusoscreen (high contrast and about 13 gain)


Exterior high gain screen aprox 26 gain with direct sunlight

Projector Mitsubishi HC5

Projector Optoma hd300x 

Av receiver Onkyo TX-NR 818

Oppo 103D

Media player Med1000x3D

 

 

KEN KREISEL DXD-808 

Q7000 5.1

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post #51 of 51 Old 12-06-2013, 06:04 PM
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Victoria Secrets has some great fabrics as well. Many are acoustically transparent and in some instances appear to almost vanish when viewing. Depending on the frame one choses to install them on and how they are ultimately mounted I would choose them as my favorite fabrics. smile.gif
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