What Do You Want To See From CES 2014? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:32 PM
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Well, there is always this demo for those looking for audio advancements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKnhcsRTNME

Listen using headphones. Astoundsound basically replicates how we hear, resulting in hearing audio all around you with only two speakers. This tech can also help multi channel setups as well, negating the need for adding 30+ speakers.

This tech is currently in use in the PS4 and several high end AMD GPUs for processing game audio. (Though no game really takes advantage just yet) Hopefully we see it come to home theater in some way outside of gaming.

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Old 12-26-2013, 08:36 PM
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What's interesting about this thread is that there's lots of posts about new TVs, or whatever one wants to call all this 4K OLED etc. stuff, but very little about new audio stuff.

Sadly, that probably reflects the market as a whole, if not actually exaggerating general interest in audio.

Unfortunately the new audio stuff requires adding more speakers***

Depends on how one defines "the new audio stuff."

Software such as better room correction doesn't require adding more speakers.

For people who care about music, a good multisub processor doesn't require adding more speakers, because one already uses multisubs.

Better performing (or for that matter better-looking) speakers is technically "adding more speakers," but "replacing" is a better word.

I just found it interesting - and probably a true reflection of the market, if not one that actually distorts audio's prominence, but one that's depressing for someone like me - that basically every post is about some video widget or another, and few people seem to care about the audio side of things much.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Depends on how one defines "the new audio stuff."

Software such as better room correction doesn't require adding more speakers.

For people who care about music, a good multisub processor doesn't require adding more speakers, because one already uses multisubs.

Better performing (or for that matter better-looking) speakers is technically "adding more speakers," but "replacing" is a better word.

I just found it interesting - and probably a true reflection of the market, if not one that actually distorts audio's prominence, but one that's depressing for someone like me - that basically every post is about some video widget or another, and few people seem to care about the audio side of things much.

I'm not saying that audio isn't important, it certainly is but speaking for myself I am really happy with my audio setup. Add in the fact that speakers can last for many, many years; decades even without needing to be replaced whereas projectors don't last nearly as long, especially the lamps. I will have to replace my Epson in about 1-2 years so I am excited to see what new technology will be coming out then. My next audio purchase will most likely be a new receiver that will handle 4k/UHD. I have an older Denon.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:15 AM
 
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Does it at least leave you curious what Panasonic is going to present at the show?

Not a bit because it will all be overpriced and underdelivered just like the first round of anything technologically new. I won't look at OLED or any TV for that matter for the next 10-15 years. Have a brand new 65VT60 and unless Pioneer or Panasonic rejoin the plasma market...nothing else interests me. 4K UHD or whatever other gimmicks they got coming out will all be over priced and still have over saturated and a more inferior PQ still. No thanks. 55"OLED not even big enough for the price they want you to spend. IMO TV tech was over when Pioneer pulled out unless your a millionaire with a 60,000$ projector and a home theatre.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:32 AM
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

What's interesting about this thread is that there's lots of posts about new TVs, or whatever one wants to call all this 4K OLED etc. stuff, but very little about new audio stuff.

Sadly, that probably reflects the market as a whole, if not actually exaggerating general interest in audio.

Excellent point. I am an "old school" audiophile that has a lot of moth balled very esoteric and expensive equipment. I lost interest in audio when the world of music moved into the synthesizer/techno (non musical) age. I have a huge library of priceless vinyl (over 4000). Many that will never be digitized. So I hold out hope that something will emerge that will spur me to plow through the library again. Surround and room EQ is not enough of an incentive for me. When I connect the analog beast system...it is breathtaking. And even the uninitiated youngsters are mightily impressed. But the tedium of jumping up and down every 15 minutes to turn over or change a single LP is just not there for me anymore. And I already know that archiving everything to multi terabyte drives is beyond the scope of my patience. Especially since Sound quality will be significantly reduced. Which leads to my actual question for the OP.

I would be very interested to hear of any superior vinyl archiving system that surfaces at CES. Especially one that preserves the true high fidelity of the Vinyl Masters. And it would be golden if some ambitious entrepreneur has developed a true digital disk handling system that makes the Vinyl audio listening experience less tedious. By that I mean something akin to a Dust cover sized apparatus that can fit over any turntable...digitally/laser scan the surface and tone arm apparatus. And electronically activate the lifting, playing, removal of the disks (about 10-15). Nakamichi did something like that in the past for cassettes. But I hold out basically zero hope anything will ever be similarly done for vinyl. But nothing wrong with wishing.

Sadly I think your premise is correct. No one really cares about audio from an audiophile perspective anymore.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:45 PM
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CES is tvs and electric forks. For audio I focus on product shown at the Munich High End show or RMAF.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

What's interesting about this thread is that there's lots of posts about new TVs, or whatever one wants to call all this 4K OLED etc. stuff, but very little about new audio stuff.

Sadly, that probably reflects the market as a whole, if not actually exaggerating general interest in audio.

Excellent point. I am an "old school" audiophile that has a lot of moth balled very esoteric and expensive equipment. I lost interest in audio when the world of music moved into the synthesizer/techno (non musical) age. I have a huge library of priceless vinyl (over 4000). Many that will never be digitized. So I hold out hope that something will emerge that will spur me to plow through the library again. Surround and room EQ is not enough of an incentive for me. When I connect the analog beast system...it is breathtaking. And even the uninitiated youngsters are mightily impressed. But the tedium of jumping up and down every 15 minutes to turn over or change a single LP is just not there for me anymore. And I already know that archiving everything to multi terabyte drives is beyond the scope of my patience. Especially since Sound quality will be significantly reduced. Which leads to my actual question for the OP.

I would be very interested to hear of any superior vinyl archiving system that surfaces at CES. Especially one that preserves the true high fidelity of the Vinyl Masters. And it would be golden if some ambitious entrepreneur has developed a true digital disk handling system that makes the Vinyl audio listening experience less tedious. By that I mean something akin to a Dust cover sized apparatus that can fit over any turntable...digitally/laser scan the surface and tone arm apparatus. And electronically activate the lifting, playing, removal of the disks (about 10-15). Nakamichi did something like that in the past for cassettes. But I hold out basically zero hope anything will ever be similarly done for vinyl. But nothing wrong with wishing.

Sadly I think your premise is correct. No one really cares about audio from an audiophile perspective anymore.

I'm going to dedicate the better part of my Wednesday at CES in the high-performance audio area at the Venetian—the audiophile section.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:46 AM
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Don't forget to gimme a holler at CES, Mark. I'm the guy in a ponytail wearing red t-shirt carrying a 7D . biggrin.gif
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't forget to gimme a holler at CES, Mark. I'm the guy in a ponytail wearing red t-shirt carrying a 7D . biggrin.gif

You got it!
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:54 PM
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Let's hope Verizon does not demo its non-existent multi-tuner (more than 2) DVR for the third year again. Other then that I am primarily interested to see what PDPs Samsung is planning to offer during 2014 and any further developments for OLEDs.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:42 PM
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Why is it hard to make FLAT OLED?
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:19 AM
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***I lost interest in audio when the world of music moved into the synthesizer/techno (non musical) age.

Would that be around the time of Sgt. Pepper or around the time of Led Zeppelin I?
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***And I already know that archiving everything to multi terabyte drives is beyond the scope of my patience. Especially since Sound quality will be significantly reduced. Which leads to my actual question for the OP.

I would be very interested to hear of any superior vinyl archiving system that surfaces at CES. Especially one that preserves the true high fidelity of the Vinyl Masters.

That came out in the 1980s. A medium vastly superior in fidelity to vinyl called "Red Book audio" (aka "CD").

Also, keep in mind that there's a great way around the tedium of archiving things yourself: pay a shop with a good vinyl rig to do it.

But I bet you're right, that there's some money to made in providing a "vinyl archival service" by a savvy marketer with a turntable, a DAC, and a willingness to string together enough audiophile buzzwords to convince. Even though that would take away one of vinyl only two virtues over modern music storage/retrieval methods, which is the ritual aspect. (The only other comparative virtue of vinyl is the one you stated: library size/depth. In every other way, vinyl is a massively inferior medium. And yes, I own and occasionally use a decent TT. The ritual is fun, even if the music sounds superior streaming from the MacBook to the AppleTV.)
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Sadly I think your premise is correct. No one really cares about audio from an audiophile perspective anymore.

I think that's primarily because of the audiophiles. People who wax on incessantly about the alleged superiority of dragging a rock through a petrochemical ditch over modern music storage/retrieval methods, the wire worshippers, etc. People who love music and seek out gear to better reproduce it generally shun the "audiophile" label today.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:22 AM
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Wow, rude much?

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Old 12-29-2013, 11:18 AM
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The ritual is fun, even if the music sounds superior streaming from the MacBook to the AppleTV.)
I think that's primarily because of the audiophiles. People who wax on incessantly about the alleged superiority of dragging a rock through a petrochemical ditch over modern music storage/retrieval methods, the wire worshippers, etc. People who love music and seek out gear to better reproduce it generally shun the "audiophile" label today.

I have no idea what you are ranting about. The OP already answered my inquiry with the professionalism expected. Thanks imagic. I really look forward to your (and Dan Wilkinson's) impressions of the show. Including all things audio.

As far as the insulting drivel in this post is concerned...all I can say is one man's beer is always another's P...ss. And vice versa. No need to respond...unless you must have the last word. I have said everything that matters to me about audio...vinyl...and modern audio formats. And I certainly will not help turn this great thread into an audio flame war. Who really cares anyway? Beethoven out! rolleyes.gif
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Sadly I think your premise is correct. No one really cares about audio from an audiophile perspective anymore.

I think that's primarily because of the audiophiles. People who wax on incessantly about the alleged superiority of dragging a rock through a petrochemical ditch over modern music storage/retrieval methods, the wire worshippers, etc. People who love music and seek out gear to better reproduce it generally shun the "audiophile" label today.

I don't mean to be pithy but... only if they are not familiar with the definition of the term.


source: Merriam-Webster
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:22 PM
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I think that's primarily because of the audiophiles. People who wax on incessantly about the alleged superiority of dragging a rock through a petrochemical ditch over modern music storage/retrieval methods, the wire worshippers, etc. People who love music and seek out gear to better reproduce it generally shun the "audiophile" label today.

I don't mean to be pithy but... only if they are not familiar with the definition of the term.


source: Merriam-Webster

I don't want to go all Justice-Scalia-on-Webster's-Third, so let's just say the the dictionary lags behind actual usage. In actual use in 2013, people who self-identify as "Audiophiles" are the people who swap mere wires and report hearing more "clarity" and "air" or whatever, cling to antiquated methods of music storage/retrieval*, disparage modern subjective listening tests, etc. Which is not only orthogonal to anything involving "high-fidelity reproduction," but also makes thinking people reject the association and thus the label.

*Yes, sometimes vinyl actually sounds better, it's true. There's a mini-trend of putting a master with higher dynamic range on the tar pits than on the file. My hunch is that DRM has more to do with that than anything else...

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Old 12-29-2013, 03:06 PM
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Ahhh! The Warmth of Vinyl!
Sort of like the difference of Cool White Fluorescents in your Office Ceiling versus Warm White.
One sucks the life out of you, the other makes you look all Natural!
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that's primarily because of the audiophiles. People who wax on incessantly about the alleged superiority of dragging a rock through a petrochemical ditch over modern music storage/retrieval methods, the wire worshippers, etc. People who love music and seek out gear to better reproduce it generally shun the "audiophile" label today.

I don't mean to be pithy but... only if they are not familiar with the definition of the term.


source: Merriam-Webster

I don't want to go all Justice-Scalia-on-Webster's-Third, so let's just say the the dictionary lags behind actual usage. In actual use in 2013, people who self-identify as "Audiophiles" are the people who swap mere wires and report hearing more "clarity" and "air" or whatever, cling to antiquated methods of music storage/retrieval*, disparage modern subjective listening tests, etc. Which is not only orthogonal to anything involving "high-fidelity reproduction," but also makes thinking people reject the association and thus the label.

*Yes, sometimes vinyl actually sounds better, it's true. There's a mini-trend of putting a master with higher dynamic range on the tar pits than on the file. My hunch is that DRM has more to do with that than anything else...

Like I said, people who shun the word likely do not understand what it means.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:52 PM
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Audiophiles: People who want the Best sound
Videophiles: Men who like great Eye Candy
Audio-Videophiles: Those who like great looking Video, no matter what it is, and it dam well better have great sound as well!
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:43 PM
 
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Even people who can't afford the proper equipment can be audio/videophiles.
We may be aware of what we are missing, we just can't think about it while we are enjoying our "best-of-the-bottom-end".
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:22 PM
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Even people who can't afford the proper equipment can be audio/videophiles.
We may be aware of what we are missing, we just can't think about it while we are enjoying our "best-of-the-bottom-end".

Problem being, wives who say it's good enough, and NO you can't get it!
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Problem being, wives who say it's good enough, and NO you can't get it!
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:24 AM
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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110"@4K TVs.

You mean like the new 110", $150,000 Samsung? I'll definitely check it out when I am there.

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Old 12-30-2013, 07:37 AM
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Thanks imagic. I really look forward to your (and Dan Wilkinson's) impressions of the show. Including all things audio.

Hey Mark...did Scott Wilkinson get replaced by Dan Wilkinson? biggrin.gif
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:00 AM
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No way! Dan doesn't have the cool clocks in the background of the HTG episodes like Scott does biggrin.gif I still can't figure out what time it is confused.gif
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:48 AM
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Projectors, projectors, projectors. I really hope there's a crop of 4k projectors but I haven't really heard much chatter about any. I imagine it's much harder to make a tiny 4K chip than it is to make a 4K flat panel.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:54 PM
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a return to good build quality on flatscreens, no more of this cheap, poorly built, razer thin, break in 18 months TVs. and a low cost blackdiamond option(perhaps in a manual pulldown config.)

pcm=potato
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:42 PM
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Curious if Samsung will improve their picture quality with plasmas or are all of the manufacturers putting plasma aside to concentrate on 4k oled.
Also interested in the Dolby HDR tech and ultra D. I want to know where tv tech is headed, so many different technologies i am scared to buy a tv any time soon.
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