Value Electronics 10th Annual Display Shoot-Out - Updated 5/29/2014 - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
FWIW I spoke to Robert today. No firm date yet, but it's close. One tidbit... The majority of TVS in the shootout will be 79" or larger. Also, the event will take place no later than the weekend of August 9-10. But, it could be earlier. The main delay is product availability.

Also, the inclusion of the Vizio M is still a possibility, but it's on Vizio to make it happen.

Mark, you mentioned the Vizio M but not the Vizio P. Can we take that to mean that even by August 9-10, the inclusion of the Vizio P is not a possibility?


At the rate he is going, you might suggest to Robert that he consider schedule thing 2014 shootout as a pre-Black-Friday event. Heck, another month or two and he might even be able to squeeze the Panasonic AX900 into the mix...


Like others, I'm also disappointed about the shift in focus to 79" or larger panels.


Maybe Robert should go back to his 'dual-shootout' concept but organized around panel size rather than resolution. Day 1 is for 65" TVs and Day 2 is for 79" and above mega-TVs.


Since each panel size is effectively a different TV these days, the results of a shootout on 79" and above TVs will be worthless to those of us looking for the best 65" TV this year (which is much closer to the sweetspot of the enthusiast market).
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post #482 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 10:28 AM
 
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Has anyone seen
? I wanted to embed the video, but I don't know how to do it.

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post #483 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Mark, you mentioned the Vizio M but not the Vizio P. Can we take that to mean that even by August 9-10, the inclusion of the Vizio P is not a possibility.

Well at least we know if the M series is not in the shootout it's because Vizio didn't want to be included. But perhaps the delay may be due to Robert giving Vizio every chance to include the P series.


This event is geared towards a very, very small crowd that it virtually has no effect on sales. IMO the manufacturers care more about getting feedback from the calibrators/industry insiders on any issues they may come across on their models. I recall the Samsung plasma D8000 model had a number of firmware updates based upon such feedback. I'm thinking Vizio may benefit in a similar matter if they were to include the P series. Sometime it's beneficial to get an outsider's perspective.

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post #484 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
This event is geared towards a very, very small crowd that it virtually has no effect on sales.
It's going to be geared toward an even smaller crowd this year since they've decided to focus on the giant panels.
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post #485 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 03:59 PM
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You all should watch the YouTube video Shnura linked... Robert said the only TVs "small" TVs would be the 55" EC9700 LG OLED and the 64" F8500 Plasma. He mentioned the Samsung HU9000 would be either a 78" or 110" and that all other TVs would be 79" and up. He also mentioned that he was 98% sure the shootout would be on July 19-20. Lastly, he said that he would allow in TVs he didn't sell and that Panasonic and Vizio have been invited to participate even though VE doesn't sell either.
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post #486 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
It's going to be geared toward an even smaller crowd this year since they've decided to focus on the giant panels.
Giant panel technology that will trickle down to smaller sizes. As a tv buff, i say "like it, buy it - then figure out how to pay for it".
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post #487 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 04:08 PM
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Giant panel technology that will trickle down to smaller sizes.
Except that's not really how it works... Generally speaking, the larger panels are not as technologically advanced as the smaller ones specifically when it comes to backlight topology and capability.
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post #488 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 04:17 PM
 
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Stereodude, Why do you think that larger TVs are not as technologically advanced? I never heard that before.

I like the idea of the larger TVs so everyone can see the value of higher resolution and for the shootout it seems like a good idea so from any seat you can more easily evaluate the test patterns and video content. Sounds like a good idea to me, at least for the shootout evaluation.

Also not sure, but I think venus933 was referring to the video enthusiast market is small, not the amount of attendees or on line viewers. I attended last year's shootout and it was standing room only and I could not get into the second night.

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post #489 of 617 Old 06-25-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by schnura View Post
Stereodude, Why do you think that larger TVs are not as technologically advanced? I never heard that before.
Well, look at the various product lineups from various manufacturers. Companies like Toshiba and Panasonic have (or will have) Full Array Local Dimming sets in 65", but their 84" versions of the same sets are edge-lit. Vizio's M series is FALD up through 70" and then goes edge lit at 80". LG's first gen OLED was only in a 55". The larger sizes are coming this year, but none larger than 77".

Further, the panels used in the very large sets are from a much smaller pool of LCD fabs that make such large LCD panels and you can't necessarily infer anything about how a 65" or smaller set will perform by looking at a 78", 79", 84", or 85" panels.
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post #490 of 617 Old 06-28-2014, 07:06 PM
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Yawn. Too large to make extrapolation of results to the sweet spot sizes for most living rooms, 55-65 inches. Having 65 be the standard was as big as I would have gone.

This event should not be about size, who cares if you bring the biggest set? Event has gone from questionable to useless. Too much performance variation, particularly in the edge-lit sets, when you get that big.

Concur - I was hoping to get a feel of 4k vs 2k set viewing at typical living room distances of sets between 55 and 65 inches - is the extra 2k pixels worth it?
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post #491 of 617 Old 07-01-2014, 05:29 AM
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I wonder if Samsung SDI's announcement to cease Plasma production by Nov. 30th will affect the decision to include the F8500 for 2014 or not.
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post #492 of 617 Old 07-01-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I wonder if Samsung SDI's announcement to cease Plasma production by Nov. 30th will affect the decision to include the F8500 for 2014 or not.
Perhaps. The 8500 should still be available in July, so VE could include it legitimately. Or they could do what they did with the KRP 500 Kuro last year and use one as a reference that's not an official part of the shootout.
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post #493 of 617 Old 07-04-2014, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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The dates for the shootout are official...

August 16 & 17, 2014 (Saturday and Sunday)

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post #494 of 617 Old 07-07-2014, 06:36 PM
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What's the over/under on it being delayed again?
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post #495 of 617 Old 07-08-2014, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
What's the over/under on it being delayed again?
It's an official press release now. I'll start a new thread. What's not settled yet is the final, final lineup. But, it looks like at least a Vizio M will make the cut in the 1080p group; where I expect the F8500 will remain the TV to beat.

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post #496 of 617 Old 07-08-2014, 07:46 AM
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What's not settled yet is the final, final lineup. But, it looks like at least a Vizio M will make the cut in the 1080p group; where I expect the F8500 will remain the TV to beat.
So that will be the 80" M since Robert said only the OLED and the Samsung F8500 would be under 79" (except perhaps the 78" HU9000), or did that change also?
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post #497 of 617 Old 07-08-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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So that will be the 80" M since Robert said only the OLED and the Samsung F8500 would be under 79" (except perhaps the 78" HU9000), or did that change also?
I really do not know the answer to that. My guess is that anything that's 1080p will not necessarily be 79" or larger. I think the whole point of the big screens is that you need the size to appreciate UHD/4K from normal viewing distances.

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post #498 of 617 Old 07-08-2014, 10:54 AM
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I really do not know the answer to that. My guess is that anything that's 1080p will not necessarily be 79" or larger. I think the whole point of the big screens is that you need the size to appreciate UHD/4K from normal viewing distances.
That's good news. So at least for 1080p there will be screens in the 55"-65" range and the Vizio M will be in the mix.

Aside from the M, the Samsung 8500 and the LG WOLED, will there be any other 1080p panels in the shoot out?
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post #499 of 617 Old 07-08-2014, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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That's good news. So at least for 1080p there will be screens in the 55"-65" range and the Vizio M will be in the mix.

Aside from the M, the Samsung 8500 and the LG WOLED, will there be any other 1080p panels in the shoot out?
I've asked...

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post #500 of 617 Old 07-09-2014, 11:36 AM
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The dates for the shootout are official...

August 16 & 17, 2014 (Saturday and Sunday)

No P-series or AX900
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No P-series or AX900
I expect an update on which TVs will be in the shootout by the end of this coming weekend. There has to be some reason Robert isn't issuing a final list yet.
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post #502 of 617 Old 07-10-2014, 12:29 PM
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I expect an update on which TVs will be in the shootout by the end of this coming weekend. There has to be some reason Robert isn't issuing a final list yet.
Hopefully a good reason :-)
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post #503 of 617 Old 07-10-2014, 01:31 PM
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Hopefully a good reason :-)
He's probably trying to figure out the logistics of how to display all those giant screens! Lol! They may need to put the audience on an easel in the center and the TVs along the outside and just swivel them around in a circle.
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post #504 of 617 Old 07-13-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It's an official press release now. I'll start a new thread. What's not settled yet is the final, final lineup. But, it looks like at least a Vizio M will make the cut in the 1080p group; where I expect the F8500 will remain the TV to beat.
Now that I have the M492i-B2 which I will be returning I think the M series is going to be very embarrassed by the F8500.

Also, from the 5/29 update I thought the 1080p displays were no longer going to be separated out from the ultra HD displays.

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post #505 of 617 Old 07-13-2014, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I expect an update on which TVs will be in the shootout by the end of this coming weekend. There has to be some reason Robert isn't issuing a final list yet.

Website has been updated: http://www.*********************/


"4K 2160p models:
  • Samsung S9 Direct Lit LCD/LED w/local dimming (85", 105" or 110")
  • Samsung UNxxHU9000 55" 65" or 78" Edge lit local dimming (We are testing three sizes to be sure the performance is the same, size included in the event will be decided once our evaluation of the three sizes is completed.)
  • LG UB9800 LCD/LED Edge Lit IPS panel. We're testing several sizes to confirm panel differences and once our testing and evaluation is complete we'll announce the size to be included in the event.
  • Sony XBR-xxX950B Direct lit full array locally dimmed. Again we are testing the 65" and 85" and once our testing is completed we'll announce which size will be included in our TV Shootout evaluation event.
Likely to be added if available:
  • LG 65EC9800 or the 77" 4K OLED
  • Toshiba 65LA9400U 65" direct lit LCD/LED full array locally dimmed
1080p models:
  • Samsung PN64F8500 64" PDP
  • LG OLED 55EC9300 55" OLED
  • Samsung KN55S9 55" OLED
Likely to be added (final testing next week):
  • Vizio M652i-B2 65" Direct Lit LCD/LED w/local dimming
  • Sharp LC-70UQ17U 70" Edge Lit LCD/LED "
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post #506 of 617 Old 07-13-2014, 08:52 PM
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Website has been updated: http://www.*********************/



"4K 2160p models:
  • Samsung S9 Direct Lit LCD/LED w/local dimming (85", 105" or 110")
  • Samsung UNxxHU9000 55" 65" or 78" Edge lit local dimming (We are testing three sizes to be sure the performance is the same, size included in the event will be decided once our evaluation of the three sizes is completed.)
  • LG UB9800 LCD/LED Edge Lit IPS panel. We're testing several sizes to confirm panel differences and once our testing and evaluation is complete we'll announce the size to be included in the event.
  • Sony XBR-xxX950B Direct lit full array locally dimmed. Again we are testing the 65" and 85" and once our testing is completed we'll announce which size will be included in our TV Shootout evaluation event.
Likely to be added if available:
  • LG 65EC9800 or the 77" 4K OLED
  • Toshiba 65LA9400U 65" direct lit LCD/LED full array locally dimmed
1080p models:
  • Samsung PN64F8500 64" PDP
  • LG OLED 55EC9300 55" OLED
  • Samsung KN55S9 55" OLED
Likely to be added (final testing next week):
  • Vizio M652i-B2 65" Direct Lit LCD/LED w/local dimming
  • Sharp LC-70UQ17U 70" Edge Lit LCD/LED "


It's a good list overall but I don't understand what the Samsung OLED is doing there. The F8500 Plasma will be out of production soon but is still an available product and was last year's winner, so I have no problem with the F8500 being on the list, but what is the point of including a product which is out of production and not available (the Samsung KN55S9 OLED)????
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post #507 of 617 Old 07-14-2014, 07:23 AM
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It's a good list overall but I don't understand what the Samsung OLED is doing there. The F8500 Plasma will be out of production soon but is still an available product and was last year's winner, so I have no problem with the F8500 being on the list, but what is the point of including a product which is out of production and not available (the Samsung KN55S9 OLED)????
Also what happened to the samsung 8550s? Robert had stated that this would be included so we could see if the 9000 extra features are worth the premium to purchase a curved set. I think this is very important as the "curve or no curve debate" continues.
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post #508 of 617 Old 07-14-2014, 09:30 AM
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It's a good list overall but I don't understand what the Samsung OLED is doing there. The F8500 Plasma will be out of production soon but is still an available product and was last year's winner, so I have no problem with the F8500 being on the list, but what is the point of including a product which is out of production and not available (the Samsung KN55S9 OLED)????
I don't know why you would complain about more information! Lol! I'm interested if only as an academic exercise to compare the 'pure' RGB OLED technology of the Samsung panel vs the more successful to produce WRGB OLED panel that LG is bringing to market. Of course I'd be even happier if they included the first gen LG as well so we could see the difference a model generation has brought.

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post #509 of 617 Old 07-14-2014, 02:18 PM
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At least we will get a worthy 4K champ with S9 and X950B as participants..
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post #510 of 617 Old 07-14-2014, 02:50 PM
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But no Panasonic AX800u?? That's too bad as that display took home the 'best 4k' award in the hdtvtest competition. It would be interesting to see how Panasonic's latest and greatest LCD would stack up considering Panasonic's former dominance in plasma.
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