Value Electronics 10th Annual Display Shoot-Out - Updated 5/29/2014 - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 616 Old 08-16-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by henbone11 View Post
Are they streaming it this year? I'm on the stream channel on livestream, but it's still offline.
Yea, me too. Looks like there are technical issues. I hope they do better with the actual shootout....
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post #542 of 616 Old 08-16-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
It's on the ve stream
I found it about 5 minutes after I posted. lol I should have edited my reply. On a side note, it's funny when these guys forget that they are mic'd and they are being candid about....everything, including each other.
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post #543 of 616 Old 08-16-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by henbone11 View Post
I found it about 5 minutes after I posted. lol I should have edited my reply. On a side note, it's funny when these guys forget that they are mic'd and they are being candid about....everything, including each other.

They don't forget as they know they are micd nothing to hide and if there is something to discuss off record they turn the mic off or walk away from the floor mic
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post #544 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 06:13 AM
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Quote from announcement :
"The Vizio will not be voted on as it did not perform well enough to be included in the final group".
I wish they were more specific : exactly in which performance parameters the Vizio did so poorly to not be included in the group, was it poor FALD implementation + noticeable "blooming", unacceptable amount of "bands", "dirty screen effect", backlight bleeding, video processing, unit failure during testing, what exactly precluded its inclusion ?
On the other hand, why include models costing upwards of $25,000.00 when only a tiny minority of the population can afford that ? Why not request from manufacturers they ship more affordable top-of-the-line units such as the Sony 950 UHDTV for the shootout ?
Kind of disappointed here, after all this hoopla and waiting...
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post #545 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Quote from announcement :
"The Vizio will not be voted on as it did not perform well enough to be included in the final group".
I wish they were more specific : exactly in which performance parameters the Vizio did so poorly to not be included in the group, was it poor FALD implementation + noticeable "blooming", unacceptable amount of "bands", "dirty screen effect", backlight bleeding, video processing, unit failure during testing, what exactly precluded its inclusion ?
On the other hand, why include models costing upwards of $25,000.00 when only a tiny minority of the population can afford that ? Why not request from manufacturers they ship more affordable top-of-the-line units such as the Sony 950 UHDTV for the shootout ?
Kind of disappointed here, after all this hoopla and waiting...
Because the whole point of this "shootout" is to sell expensive, high margin TVs. Making $100 selling a vizio does not pay the overhead of running a brick and mortar business. I am sympathetic, the retail electronics business must be hard these days. Hard to compete with Amazon.

No reasonable, objective shootout would mix and mingle resolution and tech, with such huge pricing differences.

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post #546 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
Because the whole point of this "shootout" is to sell expensive, high margin TVs. Making $100 selling a vizio does not pay the overhead of running a brick and mortar business. I am sympathetic, the retail electronics business must be hard these days. Hard to compete with Amazon.

No reasonable, objective shootout would mix and mingle resolution and tech, with such huge pricing differences.
Except, didn't they have a >$120K tv and a $3500 tv in this year's shootout? I would say that the shootout is two-fold, with trying to sell the sets in the shootout and trying to determine the best set currently available.
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post #547 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by henbone11 View Post
Except, didn't they have a >$120K tv and a $3500 tv in this year's shootout? I would say that the shootout is two-fold, with trying to sell the sets in the shootout and trying to determine the best set currently available.
Are you implying that a $3,500 TV, the cheapest they had, is a mass market price?

I guess the takeaway for me is that the shootout is irrelevant to 99% of buyers due to the price points of the set examined, and the inherent bias of the event.

If a $1,000 TV can give you 90% of what the $4,000 TV can (and in some areas outperform), most people would go with the better value.
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post #548 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
Are you implying that a $3,500 TV, the cheapest they had, is a mass market price?



I guess the takeaway for me is that the shootout is irrelevant to 99% of buyers due to the price points of the set examined, and the inherent bias of the event.



If a $1,000 TV can give you 90% of what the $4,000 TV can (and in some areas outperform), most people would go with the better value.

This shootout has never been about value. It has been about the flagship sets that should be the best performers. It's about displaying the latest tech available as well. Most of the tech we see will trickle down to the lower end sets next model year and beyond.


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post #549 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post
If a $1,000 TV can give you 90% of what the $4,000 TV can (and in some areas outperform), most people would go with the better value.
And there's the rub, and maybe that's why Vizio didn't make it to the final 8 sets in the shootout. Perhaps the 90th percentile was just too low.
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post #550 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 11:46 AM
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What is the web url for the Sunday Shootout?

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post #551 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
What is the web url for the Sunday Shootout?
It's still there for viewing after the fact . PC Just requires a free live stream acct only or instead the free Roku channel .
on PC just click on the link put in your E mail and make up a password for free Live steam acct done and done

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/6...events/3297676

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post #552 of 616 Old 08-17-2014, 12:17 PM
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So when is the fix in ?

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post #553 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henbone11 View Post
Except, didn't they have a >$120K tv and a $3500 tv in this year's shootout? I would say that the shootout is two-fold, with trying to sell the sets in the shootout and trying to determine the best set currently available.
The $120K set is also 4K and 105", the $3,500 was only 55" and 1080p.

The picture quality of that OLED will sell the set, not sure how it looked online but in person it was incredible. The only time it got beat IMO was in the motion resolution which the Samsung plasma won.
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post #554 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The $120K set is also 4K and 105", the $3,500 was only 55" and 1080p.

The picture quality of that OLED will sell the set, not sure how it looked online but in person it was incredible. The only time it got beat IMO was in the motion resolution which the Samsung plasma won.
I thought the F8500 also excelled in terms of viewing angles and color accuracy. The LG OLED demonstrated both off-angle color shift (mild) and the color tracking error that the calibrators pointed out and directly asked LG to fix. Also, the comments about the OLED having even more aggressive ABL than the plasma surprised me. I'm not denying that the OLEDs looked great, and in general they rise above their flaws, but there's more than the one issue of motion resolution. And, a 55-inch curved screen makes no sense, especially not when a flat 55-inch 1080p OLED actually costs more.

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post #555 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 06:34 AM
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Agree, I'm considering only what I saw when trying to look dead on.

And agree on curved screen too, even if I had the 105" I'd still want a flat screen. To me it almost works like one of those optical illusions where it causes parts of the picture to appear curved when they're not. Silly on a 55", undesirable for me personally on any screen size.

The F8500 is a great TV, with all that real estate up there it's a shame we didn't see a VT or ZT beside it too based on it winning the expert votes.

It seemed there were quite a few high level technical LG people in attendance so that's a good sign, I hope they heed what David, DeWayne and Kevin were noting to them...for a first appearance in the shootout the future of OLED is very exciting.
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post #556 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 10:36 AM
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When are we going to formally see the results of the Shoot-out? Not various unofficial posts, but the actual tabulated scores table like we've seen in past years, as well as the vote results?

Thanks.
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post #557 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 11:30 AM
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When are we going to formally see the results of the Shoot-out? Not various unofficial posts, but the actual tabulated scores table like we've seen in past years, as well as the vote results?



Thanks.

Usually takes about a week or so.


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post #558 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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When are we going to formally see the results of the Shoot-out? Not various unofficial posts, but the actual tabulated scores table like we've seen in past years, as well as the vote results?

Thanks.
Last year the results came out after four days.

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post #559 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 12:03 PM
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The comments from Joe Kane were very interesting and in fact have given me cause to rethink even bothering with a 4K display at this time and just going with the F8500 for a few more years. These 4K displays seem to be in a transitional period much like the status of Dolby Atmos for the home, neither is just quite ready for prime time yet. Especially the 4K displays with the issues of input(HDMI-insufficient bandwidth/capacitance) capabilities and expanded color gamut among others such as content sourcing.

I suppose if you're someone who upgrades their display every year or few years a 4K display would be pretty exciting to have right now, and they look great, but for those like myself, who purchase a display with the hope that it will give me enjoyment for at least a 4-5 year span buying a 4K display now is probably not the right move given very likely incompatibility issues in the near future.
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post #560 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 12:07 PM
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About the displays in the shootout, I recall Robert saying that Vizio did not have a display available, or was it that Vizio hasn't released the one they wanted(P Series?/R-Series?) so it was left out? I'm somewhat confused about what the deal was with Vizio.
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post #561 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 12:14 PM
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About the displays in the shootout, I recall Robert saying that Vizio did not have a display available, or was it that Vizio hasn't released the one they wanted(P Series?/R-Series?) so it was left out? I'm somewhat confused about what the deal was with Vizio.

The M series was there, but they said did not perform well enough. I asked for detail, but my question was ignored. The P and R series have not been released yet so they wouldn't be included.


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post #562 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 12:17 PM
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The comments from Joe Kane were very interesting and in fact have given me cause to rethink even bothering with a 4K display at this time and just going with the F8500 for a few more years. These 4K displays seem to be in a transitional period much like the status of Dolby Atmos for the home, neither is just quite ready for prime time yet. Especially the 4K displays with the issues of input(HDMI-insufficient bandwidth/capacitance) capabilities and expanded color gamut among others such as content sourcing.

I suppose if you're someone who upgrades their display every year or few years a 4K display would be pretty exciting to have right now, and they look great, but for those like myself, who purchase a display with the hope that it will give me enjoyment for at least a 4-5 year span buying a 4K display now is probably not the right move given very likely incompatibility issues in the near future.
Interesting, I got the opposite reaction from what Joe Kane said. I'm thinking of getting the Samsung UN85HU8550 but was worried about 4k standards. But from what I hear it doesn't look like there is going to be rec2020, high contrast, etc standards anytime soon, if ever. Who knows if Blu-ray 4k's will even come out. Even if tomorrow, Blu-Ray and all the cable/satellite companies said 4k was available, it would take awhile for a lot of 4k content to come out. In 5 years, over half the content will be 1080p or less still, maybe even in 10 years. I think the upscaling of the 4k sets is more important now than anything and from what I've seen in the store many of the sets from Samsung, Sharp and Sony upscale Blu-Rays pretty well.
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post #563 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 12:27 PM
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Interesting, I got the opposite reaction from what Joe Kane said. I'm thinking of getting the Samsung UN85HU8550 but was worried about 4k standards. But from what I hear it doesn't look like there is going to be rec2020, high contrast, etc standards anytime soon, if ever. Who knows if Blu-ray 4k's will even come out. Even if tomorrow, Blu-Ray and all the cable/satellite companies said 4k was available, it would take awhile for a lot of 4k content to come out. In 5 years, over half the content will be 1080p or less still, maybe even in 10 years. I think the upscaling of the 4k sets is more important now than anything and from what I've seen in the store many of the sets from Samsung, Sharp and Sony upscale Blu-Rays pretty well.
Agree on the rec2020 being still-born. I guess what I'm saying is that this 4K evolution seems to be driven mostly(90%) by marketing, the need of manufactures to sell new product, and very much less about any real solid standards and technology being available, or even soon, to move into 4K "properly".

I also agree with your comment about upscaling, right now, besides having an excellent image overall, the quality of the upscaling would be of prime importance when evaluating a 4K display, how good or bad is it going to present your very likely 99% 1080p source material. 4K is very pretty, but it had better not degrade a 1080p signal.
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post #564 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 12:49 PM
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The M series was there, but they said did not perform well enough. I asked for detail, but my question was ignored. The P and R series have not been released yet so they wouldn't be included.


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Thanks, figured it was something like, I was just hoping they might have got their hands on a P Series even if it was the 55" which apparently has finally "landed" on our shores.
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post #565 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 02:15 PM
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Did they post the results of the event yet?
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post #566 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 02:18 PM
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Did they post the results of the event yet?

It takes about a week for results to be posted.


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post #567 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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The M series was there, but they said did not perform well enough. I asked for detail, but my question was ignored. The P and R series have not been released yet so they wouldn't be included.


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If it was physically present in the building, the M should have been a part of the demonstration. If it serves as a reference for mediocrity, let people judge for themselves that the extra money for the premium brands and UHD is worth it.
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post #568 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 03:15 PM
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It takes about a week for results to be posted.


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Just posted on Facebook...

LG OLED wins the shootout
Calibrators picked Samsung OLED
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post #569 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 03:20 PM
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If it was physically present in the building, the M should have been a part of the demonstration. If it serves as a reference for mediocrity, let people judge for themselves that the extra money for the premium brands and UHD is worth it.

I am in agreement with you. Hopefully they'll post a reason and or reports for it. The vagueness of the reason had more than a few wondering the reasons. If anything to show how much better these ultra expensive sets are or are not.


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post #570 of 616 Old 08-18-2014, 03:20 PM
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Surprised that the Samsung OLED was the calibrators choice over the Samsung Plasma.
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