Value Electronics 10th Annual Display Shoot-Out - Updated 5/29/2014 - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Yappadappadu View Post
Surprised that the Samsung OLED was the calibrators choice over the Samsung Plasma.

I'm sure the contrast levels outweighed other things that would take it down.


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post #572 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 03:32 PM
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''Congratulations to all the TVs participating in the evaluation event for their great technological advancements. This year was a close competition with many excellent contenders. We had a variety of flagship displays, both curved and flat panels, 1080p and 4K Ultra HD, as well as Plasma, LED, and OLED technologies.

Here are the results of the voting on the different attributes of picture quality and performance. OLEDs infinite black levels and contrast ratio won the attention of videophiles and enthusiasts. The King of TV for 2014 is LG's 55EC9300 OLED!''

(From Value Electronics Facebook page)
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post #573 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
I'm sure the contrast levels outweighed other things that would take it down.


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Meaning the infinite contrast of the LG being superior to the F8500 as the main reason they liked the LG better?

Just saw the chart and even in the terrible location it was the Samsung F8500 had excellent numbers across the board.

Also, both of the OLEDs are curved models which I have no interest in, especially on a 55" display.

I don't own an F8500 yet, but this latest shootout demonstrates that maybe I really should. ;-)

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post #574 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Meaning the infinite contrast of the LG being superior to the F8500 as the main reason they liked the LG better?



Just saw the chart and even in the terrible location it was the Samsung F8500 had excellent numbers across the board.

Yes pretty much. The calibrators heavily favor center contrast ratios. They picked the Samsung however (pros) and the audience picked the LG (winner). Also the color error they saw would have dropped point majorly for the LG in the pros eyes.


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post #575 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Yes pretty much. The calibrators heavily favor center contrast ratios. They picked the Samsung however (pros) and the audience picked the LG (winner). Also the color error they saw would have dropped point majorly for the LG in the pros eyes.


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Yes, that's the way I'm thinking about it as well.
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post #576 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 04:10 PM
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Well, now we know why the Samsung OLED was included... Their LCDs weren't going to cut it and they couldn't have a EOL'd plasma being their best display. Nevermind you have a far better chance of buying a F8500 than their basically discontinued OLED.
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post #577 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 04:12 PM
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Well, now we know why the Samsung OLED was included... Their LCDs weren't going to cut it and they couldn't have a EOL'd plasma being their best display. Nevermind you have a far better chance of buying a F8500 than their basically discontinued OLED.
Yes, there is definitely that part of the story.
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post #578 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Meaning the infinite contrast of the LG being superior to the F8500 as the main reason they liked the LG better?

Just saw the chart and even in the terrible location it was the Samsung F8500 had excellent numbers across the board.

Also, both of the OLEDs are curved models which I have no interest in, especially on a 55" display.

I don't own an F8500 yet, but this latest shootout demonstrates that maybe I really should. ;-)
I think it was a real mistake to put that F8500 in such a disadvantageous position, I think it could have scored higher in day mode voting.

The F8500 is the only TV that beat all of the UHD models in every single category.
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post #579 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, now we know why the Samsung OLED was included... Their LCDs weren't going to cut it and they couldn't have a EOL'd plasma being their best display. Nevermind you have a far better chance of buying a F8500 than their basically discontinued OLED.
although discontinued I think they had hard time actually selling them, which perhaps made it an opportune time to finally move some expensive inventory.
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post #580 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Meaning the infinite contrast of the LG being superior to the F8500 as the main reason they liked the LG better?

Just saw the chart and even in the terrible location it was the Samsung F8500 had excellent numbers across the board.

Also, both of the OLEDs are curved models which I have no interest in, especially on a 55" display.

I don't own an F8500 yet, but this latest shootout demonstrates that maybe I really should. ;-)
There is this absolutely HUGE emphasis on black level and how wonderful it is. The problem is that you have to watch a set in near total darkness to appreciate the difference. With normal indoor lighting, even a cheap $400 LCD will have fantastic blacks. I watched a fairly high end rear projector (Epson 1080UB) off and on for about three years, and I got sick and tired of watching TV in a pitch dark room. So, I bought an 80" Sharp 632U with no local dimming but with full array backlighting. I watch this set with some ambient light including a string of fully adjustable LEDs attached to the back. My eyes and me have never had it so good. Blacks look delicious and colors and whites just POP. This is with a true native contrast of about 3000:1.
I've been a video and Hi-Fi hobbyist for too many decades to count and one thing I've learned..........there is always something really really important that distinguishes the best of the best (whether it's all that valid or not). When I was young it was signal to noise ratio (think Hiss on cassettes etc.) and wow and flutter. I honestly believe that if you take the average person and sit them down in front of a reasonably priced LCD set that has been set up by someone who knows a bit about adjusting contrast, sharpness, backlighting etc. they will be thrilled with what they are watching.
I even had my set professionally ISF calibrated and, in all honesty, the difference was quite subtle compared to my own settings.
I am leaning towards the 70" Vizio P series when it comes out in a couple of months. Looks like a lot of bang for the buck.
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post #581 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 06:05 PM
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^ I agree. There's no point buying videophile level displays unless dimming the lights/turning them off and having movie nights is the priority IMO
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post #582 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 06:37 PM
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I am somewhat confused regarding the eight contrast measurements for each model : were they sequential FULL-ON/FULL OFF readings taken at random added together then divided by eight to get average results ? Are the results given in foot-Lamberts, as they appears to be ?
Were the LCD sets allowed to have LEDs completely shut off between measurements for fairer comparison to OLED and plasma sets which always do so as part of their inherent technology ?
Were the LCD sets tested using full screen white test image whereas OLED and plasma sets were tested using smaller white "windows" due to the fact of ABL restricting maximum white levels ?
Why such inconsistent readings of 0.002 ft-L to 0.006 ft-L on the Sony XBR85X950B considering that Sound & Vision magazine tested the Sony 65" 4K UHDTV as low as 0.001 ft-L (the minimum reliable reading of its colorimeter) AND to do so the reviewer had to display a full black image WITH a small white logo to "fool" its FALD into raising black floor level otherwise the LEDs shut off completely thus giving a reading of 0 ft-L, an "infinite" contrast level ?
Were all sets tested for black floor level using full screen black test pattern or were they all tested using the same pattern WITH a small white logo included for truer contrast readings ?
Just curious....
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post #583 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
I am somewhat confused regarding the eight contrast measurements for each model : were they sequential FULL-ON/FULL OFF readings taken at random added together then divided by eight to get average results ? Are the results given in foot-Lamberts, as they appears to be ?
Were the LCD sets allowed to have LEDs completely shut off between measurements for fairer comparison to OLED and plasma sets which always do so as part of their inherent technology ?
Were the LCD sets tested using full screen white test image whereas OLED and plasma sets were tested using smaller white "windows" due to the fact of ABL restricting maximum white levels ?
Why such inconsistent readings of 0.002 ft-L to 0.006 ft-L on the Sony XBR85X950B considering that Sound & Vision magazine tested the Sony 65" 4K UHDTV as low as 0.001 ft-L (the minimum reliable reading of its colorimeter) AND to do so the reviewer had to display a full black image WITH a small white logo to "fool" its FALD into raising black floor level otherwise the LEDs shut off completely thus giving a reading of 0 ft-L, an "infinite" contrast level ?
Were all sets tested for black floor level using full screen black test pattern or were they all tested using the same pattern WITH a small white logo included for truer contrast readings ?
Just curious....
1) The Sequential Contrast ratio is the average of the readings. I believe this is ALWAYS done with the ANSI pattern. Results are in Ftl
2)They have a new test pattern to prevent the LCDs from turning off which gives a more accurate reading of actual black level. This is a black screen with a dark grey border. By turning off (which will never happen with content on the screen and thus invalidate the results) the LCDs "cheat" in a way to get a black level unattainable while watching content.
3) They test all the sets the same, Peak white is 100% Field (I believe) aka full white screen.
4) With the ANSI patter you will often see different results in the different squares. the more similar the better the set uniformity when displaying high and low apl (dark and bright content) at the same time.
5) The MLL (lowest reading) is with the pattern (I believe) I mentioned in 2) all of the sets are tested the same as to not favor one tech over another.


EDIT: since you may be new, sometimes you will see the ansi pattern with the numbers in the square. These reports save space and are under the assumption that you know what you are reading (for the most part)...It can be confusing and if you didn't watch either day and missed the new pattern for MLL testing I can see your confusion.
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post #584 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 07:04 PM
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Watched the VE shootout Video interesting discussion throughout I thought . As expected the 1080p Sammy f8500 PDP fared well probably would of scored better if it wasn't up in the sky that was lame !

OTOH 1080p LG OLED beat out all the 4K's even the $120,000 5K (5,120 x 2,160) Samsung UN105S9W at VE , I wonder what the 4K LCD fanboys around here think about that now? ofc they will change the narrative to suite them and defend their position as usual . ☺☺☺

Wonder how the Samsung people are liking the crow LG just served them with a $3500.00 1080p set right about now ha ha

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post #585 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Watched the VE shootout Video interesting discussion throughout I thought . As expected the 1080p Sammy f8500 PDP fared well probably would of scored better if it wasn't up in the sky that was lame !

OTOH 1080p LG OLED beat out all the 4K's even the $120,000 5K (5,120 x 2,160) Samsung UN105S9W at VE , I wonder what the 4K LCD fanboys around here think about that now? ofc they will change the narrative to suite them and defend their position as usual . ☺☺☺

Wonder how the Samsung people are liking the crow LG just served them with a $3500.00 1080p set right about now ha ha
OLED served everyone The Pros picked the Samsung OLED, so if anything it showed Samsung that they need to get back to OLED. LED will never really be able to match Plasma and OLED in certain areas such as contrast ratio (which is a major factor) is just one major failings of LED. The only one that may challenge and come close I think is the R series from Vizio IF it gets released as its 384 zones which is more than any set had at the event. Of ocurse knowing the price of the 120" probably hurt its scores as going in you know youll never buy the TV so its there just for "giggles"..
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post #586 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 08:28 PM
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OLED served everyone The Pros picked the Samsung OLED, so if anything it showed Samsung that they need to get back to OLED. LED will never really be able to match Plasma and OLED in certain areas such as contrast ratio (which is a major factor) is just one major failings of LED. The only one that may challenge and come close I think is the R series from Vizio IF it gets released as its 384 zones which is more than any set had at the event. Of ocurse knowing the price of the 120" probably hurt its scores as going in you know youll never buy the TV so its there just for "giggles"..
Didn't know that the pros picked the Samsung OLED god to know , none the less the 4K LCD/LED's all got a serving of crow anyway.

Even as one would expect the Sammy 1080p f8500 Plasma did well against the 4K LCD/LEDs in spite if being up in the sky and tilted down I can't figure that one ...... maybe the Samsung folks didn't want their 4K LCD's humiliated by the f8500 ? and asked VE to put the f8500 in the sky ? '


Good argument for Plasma and OLED both maybe after this and as things progress in time Samsung will re visit their OLED strategy or loose face to LG in the long term

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post #587 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 08:32 PM
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Ph8te,

1) AFAIK, ANSI contrast readings for LCD sets are usually at most 3.000:1 (BTW, excellent figure) whereas FULL-ON/FULL-OFF contrast readings can reach measurable levels of over 500.000:1 depending on test equipment used, so i imagine these test results are based on the latter type of contrast measurement and not the former ?
2) Was the same black test pattern with dark grey (?) border used for all sets, including OLED and plasma sets considering the fact they also go completely black when fed full screen black test image (not ANSI) ?
3) That does not make sense : if they used ANSI patterns as you stated then why mix the results by using a 100% white test pattern, which is a FULL-ON onscreen contrast measurement ?
4)Very familiar with ANSI contrast readings and uniformity...
5) The MLL for the Sony XBR85X950B was given as "0 ft-L" which to me indicates a full screen black test image was used; How else would it receive such a reading of "infinite" contrast level just like the OLED sets if that test image with grey border was used ? Wouldn't that test image raise the minimum black floor level (or MLL) well above "0 ft-L" for truer more accurate readings ?
BTW, i wonder what test equipment was used that was capable of accurately measuring black floor level as low as 0.0004 ft-L ?
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Curious and curiouser...
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post #588 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Didn't know that the pros picked the Samsung OLED god to know , none the less the 4K LCD/LED's all got a serving of crow anyway.



Even as one would expect the Sammy 1080p f8500 Plasma did well against the 4K LCD/LEDs in spite if being up in the sky and tilted down I can't figure that one ...... maybe the Samsung folks didn't want their 4K LCD's humiliated by the f8500 ? and asked VE to put the f8500 in the sky ? '





Good argument for Plasma and OLED both maybe after this and as things progress in time Samsung will re visit their OLED strategy or loose face to LG in the long term

If you watch at the end of the video for day 2 Robert was trying to get the Samsung rep to spill about OLED in 2015. The Samsung rep wouldn't commit to anything (especially on video). If they weren't I would guess it would be not at this time. I have a feeling though Samsung may "soon" jump back into the OLED ring.


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post #589 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post
There is this absolutely HUGE emphasis on black level and how wonderful it is. The problem is that you have to watch a set in near total darkness to appreciate the difference. With normal indoor lighting, even a cheap $400 LCD will have fantastic blacks. I watched a fairly high end rear projector (Epson 1080UB) off and on for about three years, and I got sick and tired of watching TV in a pitch dark room. So, I bought an 80" Sharp 632U with no local dimming but with full array backlighting. I watch this set with some ambient light including a string of fully adjustable LEDs attached to the back. My eyes and me have never had it so good. Blacks look delicious and colors and whites just POP. This is with a true native contrast of about 3000:1.
I've been a video and Hi-Fi hobbyist for too many decades to count and one thing I've learned..........there is always something really really important that distinguishes the best of the best (whether it's all that valid or not). When I was young it was signal to noise ratio (think Hiss on cassettes etc.) and wow and flutter. I honestly believe that if you take the average person and sit them down in front of a reasonably priced LCD set that has been set up by someone who knows a bit about adjusting contrast, sharpness, backlighting etc. they will be thrilled with what they are watching.
I even had my set professionally ISF calibrated and, in all honesty, the difference was quite subtle compared to my own settings.
I am leaning towards the 70" Vizio P series when it comes out in a couple of months. Looks like a lot of bang for the buck.
I've got a Plasma and 5 LCD here with contrast ratios ranging from ~2500 : 1 on the LG with an IPS panel
and up to 3500: 1 on one,and 4000:1 cr on another and (5000: 1 without local dimming or FALD ) on the newest Sony LED .

The Sony LED destroys all the other LED/LCD here daylight dim or (dark even more so ) if you ever get the chance to watch an LCD/LCD that can do 5000:1 contrast without FALD or other such things I would highly recommend it next to decent Plasma or OLED which ofc are the best to date .

The difference between one of my Toshiba sets sets @ 3500:1 CR panel and the Sony with .022 black& 5000: 1 CR (4700:1 after calibration) panel is readily apparent in daylight and stunning in a dim or dark room with or without ambient light .or room light at night . If the Viseo Pee <sic> can match that contrast and maintain decent blacks thay might have something decent.

OTOH I would agree even a $ 4- $500.00 LCD with decent blacks and contrast in ~4000-4500:1 + range can look just fine . Once you have that and halfway decent processing with an LCD other than Screen size additional investment
often yields diminishing returns IMO.

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post #590 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 08:48 PM
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1. The LG OLED is only 55" diagonal.
2. I don't care about Day Mode; in daytime I got a much better view outside, @ real nature life in real 6D.
3. For me the Samsung F8500 plasma 64" is still the winner in 2014. ...And that's where my money goes.
4. Motion Resolution and Color Accuracy are big in my book.
5. Black level and Contrast Ratio are important too: the F8500 ain't to shabby.
6. The LG is too small, the Samsung is just right at 9" more in diagonal, and she costs less, a fair bunch less.

I officially declare my personal own winner for 2014: The Samsung PN64F8500 Plasma 3D HDTV.

Thank you all for reading me. ...Movie time!
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post #591 of 617 Old 08-18-2014, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
Ph8te,

1) AFAIK, ANSI contrast readings for LCD sets are usually at most 3.000:1 (BTW, excellent figure) whereas FULL-ON/FULL-OFF contrast readings can reach measurable levels of over 500.000:1 depending on test equipment used, so i imagine these test results are based on the latter type of contrast measurement and not the former ?
2) Was the same black test pattern with dark grey (?) border used for all sets, including OLED and plasma sets considering the fact they also go completely black when fed full screen black test image (not ANSI) ?
3) That does not make sense : if they used ANSI patterns as you stated then why mix the results by using a 100% white test pattern, which is a FULL-ON onscreen contrast measurement ?
4)Very familiar with ANSI contrast readings and uniformity...
5) The MLL for the Sony XBR85X950B was given as "0 ft-L" which to me indicates a full screen black test image was used; How else would it receive such a reading of "infinite" contrast level just like the OLED sets if that test image with grey border was used ? Wouldn't that test image raise the minimum black floor level (or MLL) well above "0 ft-L" for truer more accurate readings ?
BTW, i wonder what test equipment was used that was capable of accurately measuring black floor level as low as 0.0004 ft-L ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curious and curiouser...

1)ANSI can be in the 3k range, it depends a lot on how the panel is driven. Edge lit sets will always suffer ANSI as they can't shut off the LEDs and may suffer bleed from the white to the black squares. This is where plasma, OLED and local dimming will "shine".

2)Yes the same pattern is used. The difference between The plasma, OLED and the LEDs is that there is still a signal being sent to the plasma and OLED with a black screen. There is no need to **** off the backlight or driving mechanism.

3) I'm not 100% on the peak white filed used. Usually though it's a 100% field representing the "brightest" the set can get. They don't have a full on/off ratio listed in the charts. The have a sequential (via ANSI), a peak white (highest attainable White luminance) and MLL (darkest luminance with panel still being "driven".

5)The Sony x950b is a FALD screen this can locally dim the center without affecting the rest of the screen as much.

6) it was a Jetti (forget the model number). All three calibrators measure with their meters (all have the same) to make sure they are all getting the same readings.

If you watched day 2 much of this is answered already via demonstrations.





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post #592 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 06:24 AM
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Ultimately, I think I would take the F8500. When all the TVs were displaying Oppo's screen saver (the white Oppo signature moving around the black background), only the F8500 seemed not to have any halo around it. The F8500 has a more than respectable black level, excellent color, and is good with motion. As a sports fan I appreciate that. I would need it in a form factor that's maximum 57" wide, so we're not talking about a 64" screen, though.
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post #593 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by billdag View Post
There is this absolutely HUGE emphasis on black level and how wonderful it is. The problem is that you have to watch a set in near total darkness to appreciate the difference. With normal indoor lighting, even a cheap $400 LCD will have fantastic blacks. I watched a fairly high end rear projector (Epson 1080UB) off and on for about three years, and I got sick and tired of watching TV in a pitch dark room. So, I bought an 80" Sharp 632U with no local dimming but with full array backlighting. I watch this set with some ambient light including a string of fully adjustable LEDs attached to the back. My eyes and me have never had it so good. Blacks look delicious and colors and whites just POP. This is with a true native contrast of about 3000:1.
I've been a video and Hi-Fi hobbyist for too many decades to count and one thing I've learned..........there is always something really really important that distinguishes the best of the best (whether it's all that valid or not). When I was young it was signal to noise ratio (think Hiss on cassettes etc.) and wow and flutter. I honestly believe that if you take the average person and sit them down in front of a reasonably priced LCD set that has been set up by someone who knows a bit about adjusting contrast, sharpness, backlighting etc. they will be thrilled with what they are watching.
I even had my set professionally ISF calibrated and, in all honesty, the difference was quite subtle compared to my own settings.
I am leaning towards the 70" Vizio P series when it comes out in a couple of months. Looks like a lot of bang for the buck.
I completely agree. I own a Pioneer KRP-500M, a Panasonic 55VT50, and a newly purchased Vizio M652i-B2. I've had all of them in my basement theater over the years. With soft bias lighting, there is very little perceptible difference in black level between the three of them. To say that the Vizio is a tremendous value and technical achievement for the money is an understatement. My only pause would be DSE, which is a bit more noticeable than on either of the plasma panels.

I love this hobby we all enjoy and can't wait to see where OLED goes, but seeing the performance to value ratio that this year's Vizio panels are delivering is truly remarkable given the greater impact it will actually have in the market.
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post #594 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 07:47 AM
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BTW, i wonder what test equipment was used that was capable of accurately measuring black floor level as low as 0.0004 ft-L ?
Hi, they used 3x Klein K-10A Tristimulus Colorimeters for these measurements and generally for all calibration measurements work of this annual display shoot-out.

Klein K-10A is the fastest colorimeter available for display calibration / most popular meter user to post-production/broadcasting area (Film/TV industry), it takes 256 measurements per second at any luminance level, low/ultra low/ high..whatever..... From these 256 measurements it's doing an average internally and returns the results to the software 8 times per second.

So it's possible to measure very quick the Black Field Pattern before the display shutdown it's backlight..

You can measure down to 0.00002 fl. / 0.00006cd/m2 luminance range.

They used the Klein's Extension Tube and Lens Hood attached to take the contact reading, to reduce the rooms light affection in the measurements, but I believe they closed full room lights and other displays when they measured the Black Level for the Sequential Contrast (On/Off) of each display.
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post #595 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 07:53 AM
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Iit was a Jetti (forget the model number). All three calibrators measure with their meters (all have the same) to make sure they are all getting the same readings.


Hi, All three calibrators used their own personal equipment that they are also using for their field display calibrations, for HT or post-production work, the Klein K-10A Tristimulus Colorimeter.
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post #596 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 01:56 PM
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''We have a correction to our early determination on the 2014 King of TV. LG's EC9300 OLED won in the most categories and in the most important categories, however, if all the categories are averaged for each TV, the F8500 comes out slightly higher overall. So this year we are declaring a tie between the LG EC9300 OLED and Samsung F8500 plasma, with the expert calibrators' top pick as the Samsung OLED! Congrats to the excellent Samsung, Sony, and LG displays competing in the event.''

Taken from Value Electronics Facebook Page

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post #597 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


''We have a correction to our early determination on the 2014 King of TV. LG's EC9300 OLED won in the most categories and in the most important categories, however, if all the categories are averaged for each TV, the F8500 comes out slightly higher overall. So this year we are declaring a tie between the LG EC9300 OLED and Samsung F8500 plasma, with the expert calibrators' top pick as the Samsung OLED! Congrats to the excellent Samsung, Sony, and LG displays competing in the event.''

Taken from Value Electronics Facebook Page
Yay! That result accurately reflects my own observations. I'm glad Robert made this decision!

Mark Henninger
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post #598 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


''We have a correction to our early determination on the 2014 King of TV. LG's EC9300 OLED won in the most categories and in the most important categories, however, if all the categories are averaged for each TV, the F8500 comes out slightly higher overall. So this year we are declaring a tie between the LG EC9300 OLED and Samsung F8500 plasma, with the expert calibrators' top pick as the Samsung OLED!
Congrats to the excellent Samsung, Sony, and LG displays competing in the event.''

Taken from Value Electronics Facebook Page
Not bad.

Thank you for your cooperation.

♦ Mark, I only saw your above post after I posted mine. You and I pretty much think the same, on this one.

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post #599 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 02:22 PM
 
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Not bad.

Thank you for your cooperation.

P.S. Mark, I only saw your above post after I posted mine. You and I pretty much think the same, on this one.
Were you at the shootout?
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post #600 of 617 Old 08-19-2014, 05:58 PM
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"The Sony LED destroys all the other LED/LCD here daylight dim or (dark even more so ) if you ever get the chance to watch an LCD/LCD that can do 5000:1 contrast without FALD or other such things I would highly recommend it next to decent Plasma or OLED which ofc are the best to date ."

Don't get me wrong. I DO appreciate a decent black level. I've owner 12 LCD set so far and a few of them were wretched - very poor blacks with lots of clouding. I had to turn the backlight down as far as possible and have more light in the room than I really wanted, to make for a pleasant viewing experience.
The difference is that today's better sets with full array LED back-lighting have around 3K:1 true contrast ratio and very little, if any, clouding.
I KNOW that during daylight hours I cannot tell if my TV is on or off (I set it to an unused input to stop the set from turning off the backlight).
I have lots of dimmable lights in my viewing room so I did a little experiment and kept adjusting the ambient light while turning the set off and on. Truth be told - I did not have to have the room all that bright before I COULD NOT tell if the TV was on or off. That to me is the acid test!
The best thing I have ever done to improve my viewing experience (besides buying my 80" Sharp) is to purchase and install an LED light strip around the back of the set. Subjectively, it lowered the black floor level by a good 70% and made for much less eye strain when viewing the set in the evening. I recommend this little $32 upgrade as the single biggest improvement to enhance your existing TV's viewing quality. I've bought 3 more sets for friends and family who were so impressed when they saw mine!!!
If you're interested here's where you can get it on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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