Do You Prefer 2-Channel or Multichannel Music Recordings? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Do You Prefer 2-Channel or Multichannel Music Recordings?
2-channel 180 35.86%
Multichannel, audience perspective 184 36.65%
Multichannel, stage perspective 96 19.12%
I've never heard a multichannel music recording 42 8.37%
Voters: 502. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
 125Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 09:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Zen Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,375
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
so who moves around the room? The guitarist? piano?

I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but the whole point of multi is to have sounds come from different places in the listening room.
Now that you mention it, most of the time it's an interesting vocal arrangement...That said, Talking Heads remake of "Burning Down the House" (My favorite show-off song) also has drums a guitars circling in an Awesome effect. {Note: Seriously, I don't remember notes from the bass ever moving around the room}

On some titles such as the Donald Fagan and Steely Dan catalog the side surrounds and rears seem to help the front soundstage by having audio cues from the front being enhanced by the surrounds (and rears when using them) and doesn't have a "circling around the room effect...IOW your perception is still towards the front soundstage but there are sounds coming out of the other speakers that you don't notice until analyzing why it sounds better than the 2 channel mix of the same recording.
Zen Traveler is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Frank Derks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Region A,B,C
Posts: 1,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
so who moves around the room? The guitarist? piano?

That you need to ask what is moving around the room shows that you obviously haven't heard good multichannel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but the whole point of multi is to have sounds come from different places in the listening room.



With stereo you also have sounds coming from different places. These are the reflections bouncing of side and rear walls. With a good multichannel mix the ambient sound from the venue is heard first from the surrounds in sync with the front channels. This leads to a more open soundstage because the later arriving reflections from the fronts are now perceived for what they are instead of congesting the sound stage in front. (Haas effect)
lflorack likes this.
Frank Derks is offline  
post #93 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 12:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
so who moves around the room? The guitarist? piano?

I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but the whole point of multi is to have sounds come from different places in the listening room.
The whole point of multichannel is just like two channel....to give you an aural experience and the world around you certainly consists of more than two sound source points. Sometimes two channel works great, but I think given the right recording and mixing (and playback system) multichannel is capable of even better experiences; there's just not a lot of material out there although there are more and more multi-channel home systems, they're still not particularly aimed at music but rather movies. I much prefer movies in a multi channel format, and someday would like to see holographic projections rather than the flat wall approach. It's not always about having a particular sound come from a particular direction, sometimes its more about immersion and ambience. Some artists might move sounds/effects around, like when Emerson Lake & Palmer toured with the multichannel PA system (and pretty sure quite a few acts toured with such even though not all venues allowed placement of such).

I wonder how the artists generally feel about it? I remember reading the Beatles preferred mono over even two channel...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #94 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 12:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I do not like sound coming from several directions. Stereo imago works fine for me. I even prefer movies in stereo over multichannel.

I listen to lots of populair music (from fifties to what's going on right now). I also listen to classical, piano and jazz-rock.

I am not a audiophile Frank. I am strongly visual orientated. I am a videophile I am a fan of audio content though. And like to do some reading on the Audio Forums.

I do not like sound coming from several directions, has nothing to do with setups/recordings.
Stereo includes multi channel.....you simply prefer something coming from the same direction as a 2d image on a screen? How about mono? Seems more like as Jethro Tull put it, living in the past....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #95 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 01:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Perpendicular's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: California
Posts: 2,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 37
I find mono recordings, one dimensional. stereo, or two-channel recordings, two dimensional. The best is multi-channel recordings that sound real life, three dimensional.

OPPO BETA GROUP
Perpendicular is offline  
post #96 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 01:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
The whole point of multichannel is just like two channel....to give you an aural experience and the world around you certainly consists of more than two sound source points. Sometimes two channel works great, but I think given the right recording and mixing (and playback system) multichannel is capable of even better experiences; there's just not a lot of material out there although there are more and more multi-channel home systems, they're still not particularly aimed at music but rather movies. I much prefer movies in a multi channel format, and someday would like to see holographic projections rather than the flat wall approach. It's not always about having a particular sound come from a particular direction, sometimes its more about immersion and ambience. Some artists might move sounds/effects around, like when Emerson Lake & Palmer toured with the multichannel PA system (and pretty sure quite a few acts toured with such even though not all venues allowed placement of such).

I wonder how the artists generally feel about it? I remember reading the Beatles preferred mono over even two channel...
i think you missed my other post

surround for movies is awesome

surround for music, if you like it is awesome

stereo, if you prefer is awesome

For ME and ME alone, music is a real life performance duplication attempt so 'I" like stereo.

For performance art, surround "I" find very useful.

For movies "I" prefer surround.

for 'ME" if an artist releases music in surround, it should be listened to in surround.


What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #97 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpendicular View Post
I find mono recordings, one dimensional. stereo, or two-channel recordings, two dimensional. The best is multi-channel recordings that sound real life, three dimensional.
i feel compelled to challenge this

we are speaking of music now and I have never had musicians sit to the side and behind me

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #98 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 01:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Stereo includes multi channel.....you simply prefer something coming from the same direction as a 2d image on a screen? How about mono? Seems more like as Jethro Tull put it, living in the past....
i think 3.2 is optimal for 98% of all music

I know of no music released as such


What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #99 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 01:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
That you need to ask what is moving around the room shows that you obviously haven't heard good multichannel.







)
I've got to call you out on this. All you did was evade the question.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #100 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 01:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post
Now that you mention it, most of the time it's an interesting vocal arrangement...That said, Talking Heads remake of "Burning Down the House" (My favorite show-off song) also has drums a guitars circling in an Awesome effect. {Note: Seriously, I don't remember notes from the bass ever moving around the room}

.
Now that I need to hear.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #101 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 02:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,167
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks
That is just one of the things that happens in real live.
How do you cope?
So because in real life, in the real world, i am surrounded with sound, i MUST listen to surround music/movie audio at the house? What are you? The audio police?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd
Stereo includes multi channel.....you simply prefer something coming from the same direction as a 2d image on a screen? How about mono? Seems more like as Jethro Tull put it, living in the past....
Multi channel would make sense if my head was like this


EscapeVelocity likes this.
8mile13 is offline  
post #102 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 02:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,888
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1430 Post(s)
Liked: 1029
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
Seems to me if your goal is to duplicate a real world presentation you prefer 2 channel,
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
For ME and ME alone, music is a real life performance duplication attempt so 'I" like stereo.
The performance might be happening in front of you, but the presentation extends all around you. Live recordings capture the ambience of the venue. Multi-channel helps by allowing that ambience to be played back from where those sound originated (laterally).

If your goal is to duplicate a real world presentation, then playing back ambient information from the same direction as the performance (from the same 2 speakers up front) is counter to that goal. More realistic to have those sounds originate from around you rather than in front of you.

Understand that I'm not arguing your personal preference, which is about what it takes to get you there emotionally. If that turns out to be 2 speakers, then so be it. However, to claim that 2-speaker playback comes closer to duplicating a real world presentation than multi-channel does is simply not the case.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #103 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 02:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,888
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1430 Post(s)
Liked: 1029
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Multi channel would make sense if my head was like this



By the above logic, we humans only hear sounds at our sides. Couldn't possibly hear sound in front or behind or above us since we don't have additional ears pointing in those directions.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #104 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The performance might be happening in front of you, but the presentation extends all around you. Live recordings capture the ambience of the venue. Multi-channel helps by allowing that ambience to be played back from where those sound originated (laterally).

If your goal is to duplicate a real world presentation, then playing back ambient information from the same direction as the performance (from the same 2 speakers up front) is counter to that goal. More realistic to have those sounds originate from around you rather than in front of you.

Understand that I'm not arguing your personal preference, which is about what it takes to get you there emotionally. If that turns out to be 2 speakers, then so be it. However, to claim that 2-speaker playback comes closer to duplicating a real world presentation than multi-channel does is simply not the case.
You make a good point in reference to live concert recording if fan noise is part of the presentation.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #105 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,888
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1430 Post(s)
Liked: 1029
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Live recordings capture the ambience of the venue. Multi-channel helps by allowing that ambience to be played back from where those sound originated (laterally).

If your goal is to duplicate a real world presentation, then playing back ambient information from the same direction as the performance (from the same 2 speakers up front) is counter to that goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
You make a good point in reference to live concert recording if fan noise is part of the presentation.
What does "fan noise" have to do with anything? I was talking about ambient information that is in live recordings. It's not like those performances happen in a vacuum.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #106 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
i feel compelled to challenge this

we are speaking of music now and I have never had musicians sit to the side and behind me
But you're just a listener.....musicians often do have others around them....so couldn't it be more ideal to experience that?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #107 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 1030
Sorry, meant to quote 8mile13

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz



Last edited by lovinthehd; 07-06-2014 at 03:28 PM.
lovinthehd is online now  
post #108 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
So because in real life, in the real world, i am surrounded with sound, i MUST listen to surround music/movie audio at the house? What are you? The audio police?

Multi channel would make sense if my head was like this


Meant to quote this post with my comment about headphones....which seems I can't just fix easily. Do you only wear headphones so as to point into your two ears?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #109 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Frank Derks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Region A,B,C
Posts: 1,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
You make a good point in reference to live concert recording if fan noise is part of the presentation.



There isn't 'fan noise' in a good multi channel recording of a classic concert. Just ambiance from the hall that doesn't collapse into the sound field as it does with stereo.
Frank Derks is offline  
post #110 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
But you're just a listener.....musicians often do have others around them....so couldn't it be more ideal to experience that?
lol, you are pushing it now

I had thought of that but the musicians perform to optimize the sound for the audience not themselves on stage.



I AM NOT ANTI SURROUND!!!!!!!!!!

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #111 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
There isn't 'fan noise' in a good multi channel recording of a classic concert. Just ambiance from the hall that doesn't collapse into the sound field as it does with stereo.
oh give me a break

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #112 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 7,354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
lol, you are pushing it now

I had thought of that but the musicians perform to optimize the sound for the audience not themselves on stage.



I AM NOT ANTI SURROUND!!!!!!!!!!
I know what you've said and not saying you are anti-surround. I think two channel is limited and is what most are used to and what much time/effort by the music industry has propped up but is not ideal by any means. I know some musicians who are much more involved with the music itself and find much joy playing among other musicians in particular spaces (outside of a traditional venue), and I know musicians who are very much audience-focused. Not being a musician myself, find it nice to be sitting with them on stage sometimes, or trying to create a non-traditional space so to speak, and not just thinking about a traditiional audience setting or a recording trying to replicate a particular performance venue. I just had a horrible thought about some sports stadiums I've been to concerts in that would be totally not desireable to replicate. Just food for thought, not directed at you particularly, just using some of your comments to bounce off ideas so to speak.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


lovinthehd is online now  
post #113 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 03:52 PM
Member
 
von Levi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
i feel compelled to challenge this

we are speaking of music now and I have never had musicians sit to the side and behind me
Please list the multichannel recordings that do this.

I own several hundred classical SACDs, Blu-rays and DVDs with multichannel sound; out of all of them, there are three where the multichannel mix places you in the center of the musicians.

In about 20 recordings instruments and singers are occasional in the rear channels, but that was done because that's where those performers were during the concert.

And out of the thousands of classical SACDs issues, there are probably fewer than 50 discs that have this kind of mix.
von Levi is offline  
post #114 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 04:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ovation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. Hubert, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
oh give me a break
He's right. What you seem to think is the norm (instruments coming at you from all directions) is actually rather uncommon (much to my chagrin, but that's personal preference). Three of my favourite MCH recordings are of a solo instrument--two piano, one harp. In each case, in 2 ch, it sounds like an excellent recording of each instrument. In MCH, it's like the instrument is in the room with me. No "swirling gimmicks", just more realistic sound.

As for the "in the band mixes", two thoughts. First, AIX (maybe others) offers a choice of stage or audience. I prefer stage but many strong fans of MCH prefer audience. I like that AIX offers a choice. Second, when it comes to music produced in a studio (not a stage or concert hall or other venue), who's to say where the proper perspective is? The placement of the instruments is an arbitrary choice in the studio. It doesn't have to be restricted to a stage orientation. Pink Floyd's Dark Side and Wish You Were Here, along with Peter Gabriel's Up are fine in 2ch but are far more impressive in MCH. In none of these cases is there anything about the music that is inherently biased to 2ch presentation.

Certainly "in the band" mixes are not unanimously liked, even among fans of MCH. But MCH is not limited to that approach. Its far more common form, the audience mix, would likely seem like an outstanding 2ch presentation to someone who could not see the extra speakers.
18labonte likes this.
Ovation is offline  
post #115 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 04:43 PM
Member
 
von Levi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post
Second, when it comes to music produced in a studio (not a stage or concert hall or other venue), who's to say where the proper perspective is? The placement of the instruments is an arbitrary choice in the studio. It doesn't have to be restricted to a stage orientation. Pink Floyd's Dark Side and Wish You Were Here, along with Peter Gabriel's Up are fine in 2ch but are far more impressive in MCH. In none of these cases is there anything about the music that is inherently biased to 2ch presentation.

Certainly "in the band" mixes are not unanimously liked, even among fans of MCH. But MCH is not limited to that approach. Its far more common form, the audience mix, would likely seem like an outstanding 2ch presentation to someone who could not see the extra speakers.
Right.

The beauty of recordings is that you can give listeners a perspective that you don't get in a live concert, and to a large extent, stereo recordings have always done this, offering a upfront viewpoint.

As for the issue of being surrounded by the musicians, the only reason we don't see much of this is because few concert venues are designed for it.

But there definitely seems to be a rise in it. There are regularly concerts of all different genres at the Park Ave Armory in NYC where the building's very large space allows for the musicians to surround the audience.
von Levi is offline  
post #116 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 04:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I know what you've said and not saying you are anti-surround. I think two channel is limited and is what most are used to and what much time/effort by the music industry has propped up but is not ideal by any means. I know some musicians who are much more involved with the music itself and find much joy playing among other musicians in particular spaces (outside of a traditional venue), and I know musicians who are very much audience-focused. Not being a musician myself, find it nice to be sitting with them on stage sometimes, or trying to create a non-traditional space so to speak, and not just thinking about a traditiional audience setting or a recording trying to replicate a particular performance venue. I just had a horrible thought about some sports stadiums I've been to concerts in that would be totally not desireable to replicate. Just food for thought, not directed at you particularly, just using some of your comments to bounce off ideas so to speak.


you are way cool, you can say anything to me, I know it's sincere and not an attack.

As always you make good points.
lovinthehd likes this.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #117 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 04:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by von Levi View Post
Right.

The beauty of recordings is that you can give listeners a perspective that you don't get in a live concert,
just what I have said in many ways many times in this thread

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #118 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by von Levi View Post
Please list the multichannel recordings that do this.

I own several hundred classical SACDs, Blu-rays and DVDs with multichannel sound; out of all of them, there are three where the multichannel mix places you in the center of the musicians.

In about 20 recordings instruments and singers are occasional in the rear channels, but that was done because that's where those performers were during the concert.

And out of the thousands of classical SACDs issues, there are probably fewer than 50 discs that have this kind of mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post
He's right. What you seem to think is the norm (instruments coming at you from all directions) is actually rather uncommon (much to my chagrin, but that's personal preference). Three of my favourite MCH recordings are of a solo instrument--two piano, one harp. In each case, in 2 ch, it sounds like an excellent recording of each instrument. In MCH, it's like the instrument is in the room with me. No "swirling gimmicks", just more realistic sound.

As for the "in the band mixes", two thoughts. First, AIX (maybe others) offers a choice of stage or audience. I prefer stage but many strong fans of MCH prefer audience. I like that AIX offers a choice. Second, when it comes to music produced in a studio (not a stage or concert hall or other venue), who's to say where the proper perspective is? The placement of the instruments is an arbitrary choice in the studio. It doesn't have to be restricted to a stage orientation. Pink Floyd's Dark Side and Wish You Were Here, along with Peter Gabriel's Up are fine in 2ch but are far more impressive in MCH. In none of these cases is there anything about the music that is inherently biased to 2ch presentation.

Certainly "in the band" mixes are not unanimously liked, even among fans of MCH. But MCH is not limited to that approach. Its far more common form, the audience mix, would likely seem like an outstanding 2ch presentation to someone who could not see the extra speakers.
enjoy!

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is online now  
post #119 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 05:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
proufo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bogotá, Colombia
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Space... the Final Frontier

By J. Gordon Holt • Posted: Mar 17, 1994

"High-end audiophiles are space freaks---we relish the warmth and spaciousness of a fine, old performing hall almost as much as we do the music recorded in it. But my attendance at a series of orchestral concerts held last summer brought home to me---as never before---the sad fact that our search for the ultimate soundstage is doomed to failure: we're trying to reproduce three-dimensional space from a two-dimensional system, and it simply can't be done."

http://www.stereophile.com/features/74/index.html

Pablo Roufogalis L.


Last edited by proufo; 07-06-2014 at 09:24 PM.
proufo is offline  
post #120 of 363 Old 07-06-2014, 05:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,721
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Im with 8 Mile, im all in on stereo....even films.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is online now  
Reply Community News & Polls

Tags
frontpage , Polls

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off