HDR TV â?? Fad or Here to Stay? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Is HDR TV a Fad or Here to Stay?
It's a fad 97 15.67%
It's here to stay 522 84.33%
Voters: 619. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If the studios were smart, they would release a HDR10 version first, and then a DV version which also includes HDR10. People end up double dipping, which means more money for them. I still have no idea why the studios include the blu ray version with UHD version. Drop the price on the UHD movies and not include the blu ray version. The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
That is exactly what they are doing. Trust me, those reference titles will get a new release with DV.

It is odd they include the regular blu-ray. Then again a lot of blu-rays include the DVD copy, at least at first they did. It could be a strategy to get people to buy "up" in case they upgrade.
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post #32 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 03:01 AM
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For those that live in the sticks and cannot get internet without buffering, then it would be nice to have a 4K with HDR. I bought a 4K set without HDR and it looks great on OTA broadcasts. I guess living in the country has its strong points and weaknesses.
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post #33 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 03:07 AM
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How about this... HDR can go the heck away until 4000+ nit TV's and displays are readably avail.
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post #34 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
So what you're saying is, just because something new comes along. People don't throw their old equipment in the trash to get new one?

My mind has been blown.

Seriously. Of course this will be the case. But who cares about those people? If they're not in the market for a new television, of course they wont give a crap.
"Those people" just happen to be the masses. And trust, the masses don't care.

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post #35 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Dymek View Post
Clearly you have not seen HDR.
You right. I've only owned 5 TVs that have HDR, am a Netflix and Amazon Prime Member, have 2 Samsung 4K blu ray players, and own over 20 UHD movies

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post #36 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 05:50 AM
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I expect that once it gains momentum, videogames will displace movies as the HDR leader. Even the most vibrant and spectacular movies still generally pale in comparison to the obscenely dynamic levels of on-screen effects and colors found in games. On the flip side, the number of dark-themed games, dungeon crawlers, etc. that can utilize the black levels beyond the constraints of most movies.

To put it another way, it takes a movie perfectly filmed, perfectly lit, perfectly graded, and perfectly encoded in order to pass muster as HDR "demo content". We might see a handful of those every year and some might by spectacles and some might be subtle. Every HDR game will try to push the limits of the what is possible and offer the eye-candy that people crave. Love it or hate it, I think this will be the reality.
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post #37 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 07:08 AM
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HDR is here to stay but once Dolby Vision hits it will have a run for its money.
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post #38 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post
Exactly, everyone has one - it's consumer driven. And yes, I do consider myself a computerphile. I just built my latest, I call it the "Black Guru".


Remember 3D, if the consumer does not want it it becomes a fad. Lots of new technology has gone the way of the fad.


WOW, I can not wait!
I think you are a techophile....
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post #39 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:19 AM
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Unless producing a HDR movie costs more than a non-HDR movie, it's here to stay. I see no other reason for it to fail.
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post #40 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post
For all the reasons you stated that is exactly why it is NOT here to stay. Videophiles/enthusiast do not drive the market - consumers do.
That's true, but HDR requires no effort from consumers. It's not the same as 3D which required glasses. . I think HDR is here to stay. That said, I'm more in the "meh" column about it. I think the wider color palette is the really selling point of it, as much as we talk about peak brightness.

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post #41 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:44 AM
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I'm not a 100% on it and the fact until they act. roll out true 4k broadcasting the best you have is up scaled or compressed .UNLESS is a 4K Blu ray player PLUS I sit 15ft away so Im waiting on Cheaper 4k Projectors... Id need a 90in at my distance and my 80 in looks great from that distance.

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post #42 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:47 AM
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A sure cure for upgraditis NOT🤡
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post #43 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Unless producing a HDR movie costs more than a non-HDR movie, it's here to stay. I see no other reason for it to fail.
At the Hollywood and or Amazon/Netflix/HBO level, it doesn't really cost more, no. The same production cameras used for SDR can do HDR, they capture both the dynamic range and wide color gamut needed for today's HDR10 and Dolby Vision compatible displays.
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post #44 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:54 AM
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HDR10 and DV so far have left me feeling a bit flat, but HDR in regard to WCG I feel people will respond to. It's easy to see and appreciate the extra color volume, but the high contrast brilliant speculars and crushed shadow detail with extra noise thrown I feel will probably be a fad.
Just because a set can do 10000:1 does it need it in every scene? HDR as done in photography utilizing max rec2020 available I feel would resonate much better with the masses.
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post #45 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Is HDR TV a Fad or Here to Stay?

"The demise of mainstream 3D for TV is official thanks to Sony and LG ending support for the format that Samsung and Visio had already abandoned. Now we've got 4K UHD HDR TV, with its acronymic promise of an enhanced viewing experience resulting from the combination of ultra-high resolution, rich colors, and greater contrast." - Click here to read more, or just vote!
I'd say neither; rather simply one path in the evolution of displays. Something will inevitably replace it though.
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post #46 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post
For all the reasons you stated that is exactly why it is NOT here to stay. Videophiles/enthusiast do not drive the market - consumers do.
Videophiles/enthusiasts ARE consumers and they do drive the markets! They (we) are the reason manufacturers come with the items that they do and they are the reason a product flies or flops! If left up to the general public, Blu-Ray would not have caught on because 'consumers' were happy with DVD and if they needed an HD fix, HD-DVD would have worked for them.

Videophiles pushed BD because of it's potential with larger storage. No one but people with projectors asked for 4K or it's media, but it is here and the videophiles are the ones who pay the high price tags for the early models. Why do you think early 4K or even BD titles are NOT action blockbuster titles? Videophiles usually love artistic, great films as opposed to "The Hills Have Eyes" or even a Captain America film, even if the CA film will give you the best demonstration of the medium.

Some studios like to save their biggest titles for a larger installed base to get max sales, while studios usually put out weaker titles for a new medium to get sales that they may not get if people have more choices to begin with. The average Walmart consumer does not drive any market, the videophiles do and the masses trickle in later on. Now for audio - that turned into consumers driving that market...
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post #47 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Its because of two reasons, first being not everyone buying a UHD title owns a UHD source or UDTV. So you can buy it now, play it on your HD setup and move up later. Second is that the BD might include extras that are not available on the UHD release so it doesn't cost them very much to include it. BD can also be extended versions compared to the UHD offering only a theater version as a additional thought.
Not only those things, but it also helps add to 4K BD sales, even if you were not looking for a 4K title... They did the same thing with BD by including DVD's.
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post #48 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 09:59 AM
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Here to stay.

What I seem to get out of HDR is that its a way to make the color gamut available on todays consumer displays perform at its best. Its comparable to software increasing the contrast and depth of the colors available. Somewhat similiar to the way oled's impressed us when they first came out, it just looks better. Rarely has new tech gotten pass 'philes muster. Darbee was the last one. Since it will work with all available color gamuts from now on, its presence will always be there as better ways of increasing the color spectrum displays can display gets better. Hopefully the movies with hdr included will increase and TV shows besides just football will start filming in hdr so the use isnt sporatic as was dts 5.1/dolby 5.1/4k in their auditioning days so consumers wont have to set a timer to watch a movie that they wouldnt normally care about but because its in dts/dolby/4k we watch it if only to see the little indication light glow so you know its works. From what I hear there is already room for improvement as currently if a hdr title is playing you have to make sure your set is switched on to recognize the hdr stream. Automation is needed to be programmed in.

Yeah. Its here to stay and possibly 3D will get another chance because of the increased brightness it makes available. Strange that what's playing in the movies isnt available at home or is the fact that its only available at the $12 cinema the reason its only available there? You want 3D you gotta donate to the movie makers fund directly. The best thrills and chills are only available at your local cinema. Are they keeping some tech in house? Has any tech been given another chance to prove itself? I still like the idea of 3d being available at home even if I will only mainly use it for sci-fi movies. Anyway......

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post #49 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If the studios were smart, they would release a HDR10 version first, and then a DV version which also includes HDR10. People end up double dipping, which means more money for them. I still have no idea why the studios include the blu ray version with UHD version. Drop the price on the UHD movies and not include the blu ray version. The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
They do that with the blu-ray version too...they include the DVD....don't need the damn DVD, just the blu-ray thanks....after a while, there are versions which only include the blu-ray, but you have to wait a while.
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post #50 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
Huh? How could you possibly know this?

Most of the 4K movies I've bought have been new releases so there would've been no way to already have the standard Blu-ray version. I'm very, VERY glad that studios are including both the UHD and regular HD versions in one package.
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post #51 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:09 AM
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4K is a demonstrable improvement over 1080p, 4k with HDR is a demonstrable improvement over 4K and is here to stay. What is precious about this thread is that we have people that admit the do not have the equipment and own plasma and other equipment, opining that 4K with HDR is not a big improvement in picture quality. Whisky Tango Foxtrot.

Cheers
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post #52 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jond0 View Post
HDR10 and DV so far have left me feeling a bit flat, but HDR in regard to WCG I feel people will respond to. It's easy to see and appreciate the extra color volume, but the high contrast brilliant speculars and crushed shadow detail with extra noise thrown I feel will probably be a fad.
Just because a set can do 10000:1 does it need it in every scene? HDR as done in photography utilizing max rec2020 available I feel would resonate much better with the masses.
As displays get better and content producers gain more experience with HDR the implementation will certainly improve. Currently it's a bit hit and miss - the Netflix Marvel series don't really seem to do HDR well, but Chef's Table or Amazon's The Grand Tour are stunning, as is Pacific Rim on UHD Blu Ray.

What's interesting is that they're all using HDR differently. Chef's table really capitalizes on WCG and HDR's capabilities to make natural lighting look more natural, The Grand Tour does all that plus uses a lot of artistic filming effects, playing with saturation and exposure, and of course let's the metal flake, chrome, and fancy lights on the cars shine to their best extent.

HDR doesn't have to be 'balls to the wall' in every instance. It can be amazingly beautiful when used subtlety as well.
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post #53 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FresnoJT View Post
what size screen will be required to see a noticeable difference between 8K and 4K?
In 8k, I think the screen size is expressed in kilometers, so more properly labeled "8km"
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post #54 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:43 AM
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It's here until the next 'uber' fad comes along like Mega Extreme De-Lux Super High Definition Beyond Human Vision technology gets here....even then (that) will have a limited shelf life because there will always be something better...

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post #55 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
3D was a missed opportunity. The technology was there to make it really special, but the renderings I saw just didn't look realistic. Instead of having real depth, singular objects just appeared on different planes. The real reason (other than very limited content) I think it failed though was the need for extra equipment (glasses) which mostly worked when you wanted them to. Consumers just want to push play and watch, not find the glasses, make sure they have batteries, pair them, test to make sure they are working, pair your buddy's glasses etc.... and that's why HDR is here to stay but 3D isn't. I can turn on my set, push play on an Amazon prime show and get HDR. No extra steps or gear needed, and it looks great.
Though 4K is here to stay and a thing of beauty, I absolutely love my LG 47LW6500 3D set that died yesterday and plan to get my set repaired ASAP. I guess I need to go after a backup old new stock 3D set somewhere. Arrrgh.

The LG passive glasses work beautifully (when the set's not dead). The 3D source makes a world of difference -- movies shot with 3D equipment result in a full immersive experience -- The Hobbit really shines. Some 3D conversions work almost as well -- Wizard of Oz is a knockout! But others are less fastidious and the results show casting a pall over 3D presentations in general.

Look at the reaction over at Blu-ray.com at the announcement of Moana in 3D doesn't sound like enthusiasm for the format is dead. Now HDR 3D -- that would be fantastic!
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post #56 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 10:53 AM
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Probably here to stay, but HDR needs to become more user-invisible. No special discs or players, all new displays have it, no turning on Subsampling, etc., it just works. Average viewers don't need to know the why or how.

I think HDR10 vs. Dolby Vision vs. VP9 Profile2 confusion/incompatibility is the biggest threat to HDR.

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post #57 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 11:05 AM
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HDR just makes sense. You can up the pixel resolution forever or you can increase the dynamic range and get a better picture at a lower cost. Economics of scale will kick in eventually. Folks had to pony up to get 4K equipment for a better visual experience. The cost of 4K is on its way down as it edges into the mainstream expectations. You will spend again to improve the visual experience again.
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post #58 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
As displays get better and content producers gain more experience with HDR the implementation will certainly improve. Currently it's a bit hit and miss - the Netflix Marvel series don't really seem to do HDR well, but Chef's Table or Amazon's The Grand Tour are stunning, as is Pacific Rim on UHD Blu Ray.

What's interesting is that they're all using HDR differently. Chef's table really capitalizes on WCG and HDR's capabilities to make natural lighting look more natural, The Grand Tour does all that plus uses a lot of artistic filming effects, playing with saturation and exposure, and of course let's the metal flake, chrome, and fancy lights on the cars shine to their best extent.

HDR doesn't have to be 'balls to the wall' in every instance. It can be amazingly beautiful when used subtlety as well.

Yes, I do agree -- hopefully they will get the hang of it and not just turn everything up to '11'.
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post #59 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 11:15 AM
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CES 2018 will see the start of the 8K revolution as we head into the 2020 Tokyo, to be broadcast in 8K, Olympics. Will HDR, or a replacement come into affect?
For now, with 3D being eliminated from newer sets, most of us will stand pat.
Re Blu-rays in the pack, a lot of vehicles are now coming with blu-ray players. So, 4K at home, the blu-ray for the vehicle, or mobile units.
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post #60 of 150 Old 01-31-2017, 11:22 AM
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I think HDR is here to stay. Mainly because it is an easy thing to do or implement on the tv side. Heck I know the 2015 Vizio 4K sets got a firmware update to support it. I think HDR and 4K will be here for quite sometime, sure 8K is "on the way" but look how long it was after 4K sets became more or less mainstream before we even had 4K content, and no I do not consider any of the 4K stuff on places like netflix as 4K because its not. It is more akin to blu-ray quality when you account for all the compression needed to make a "4k" movie or show streamable, don't believe me do a side by side comparison. 8K is still a long way off there is no content for it and at 8k you need a big TV or screen to even make it worth while, like 70" MINIMUM screen size and that size is on the upper end of what most people, outside of this forum, would even consider.
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