HDR TV â?? Fad or Here to Stay? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Is HDR TV a Fad or Here to Stay?
It's a fad 97 15.67%
It's here to stay 522 84.33%
Voters: 619. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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HDR TV – Fad or Here to Stay?

Is HDR TV a Fad or Here to Stay?

"The demise of mainstream 3D for TV is official thanks to Sony and LG ending support for the format that Samsung and Visio had already abandoned. Now we've got 4K UHD HDR TV, with its acronymic promise of an enhanced viewing experience resulting from the combination of ultra-high resolution, rich colors, and greater contrast." - Click here to read more, or just vote!

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post #2 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 01:50 PM
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It's here to stay but I don't share the same thoughts on it being revolutionary and seeing it as some huge improvement as others do. It's a bump in image quality only some of the time and definitely not enough to get regular (non videophiles) tv viewers to jump onboard and start buying all new expensive equipment. Most will think HD is "good enou." Heck some people still watch DVDs.

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post #3 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 01:59 PM
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Here to stay...but they better start releasing some decent films on 4K disc because the selection so far, bar maybe 10-12 titles, is absolute rubbish so far.
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post #4 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 02:22 PM
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I selected here to stay, but not 100% sure about that. Will it catch on before 8K tv's arrive in the next 5 to 10 years? When that occurs, will the movies and players support 8K HDR, or will 8K with true bt.2020 and no HDR be more impressive than current 4K with HDR? I have not been all that impressed with HDR10, at least on my OLED tv. I would much rather watch 4K SDR2020, than 4K HDR2020.

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post #5 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsinnott View Post
Here to stay...but they better start releasing some decent films on 4K disc because the selection so far, bar maybe 10-12 titles, is absolute rubbish so far.
That's a valid point, but possibly some studios are awaiting Dolby Vision UHD media being shipped before they start going all out with their better titles.
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post #6 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
That's a valid point, but possibly some studios are awaiting Dolby Vision UHD media being shipped before they start going all out with their better titles.
If the studios were smart, they would release a HDR10 version first, and then a DV version which also includes HDR10. People end up double dipping, which means more money for them. I still have no idea why the studios include the blu ray version with UHD version. Drop the price on the UHD movies and not include the blu ray version. The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
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post #7 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I selected here to stay, but not 100% sure about that. Will it catch on before 8K tv's arrive in the next 5 to 10 years? When that occurs, will the movies and players support 8K HDR, or will 8K with true bt.2020 and no HDR be more impressive than current 4K with HDR? I have not been all that impressed with HDR10, at least on my OLED tv. I would much rather watch 4K SDR2020, than 4K HDR2020.
The thing is even an 8K TV can have HDR... The problem is how much more spec wise can you get when you have that 8K TV with HDR and true bt.2020 though??

A TV could wind up hitting that brick wall of tech improvements next decade.
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post #8 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kleenex View Post
The thing is even an 8K TV can have HDR... The problem is how much more spec wise can you get when you have that 8K TV with HDR and true bt.2020 though??

A TV could wind up hitting that brick wall of tech improvements next decade.
IMO, HDR is not all that impressive, it's the WCG that makes the image pop. I would more prefer the industry move towards HFR and SDR2020 4K broadcasts as opposed to HLG.

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post #9 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
It's here to stay but I don't share the same thoughts on it being revolutionary and seeing it as some huge improvement as others do. It's a bump in image quality only some of the time and definitely not enough to get regular (non videophiles) tv viewers to jump onboard and start buying all new expensive equipment. Most will think HD is "good enou." Heck some people still watch DVDs.
For all the reasons you stated that is exactly why it is NOT here to stay. Videophiles/enthusiast do not drive the market - consumers do.
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post #10 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I selected here to stay, but not 100% sure about that. Will it catch on before 8K tv's arrive in the next 5 to 10 years? When that occurs, will the movies and players support 8K HDR, or will 8K with true bt.2020 and no HDR be more impressive than current 4K with HDR? I have not been all that impressed with HDR10, at least on my OLED tv. I would much rather watch 4K SDR2020, than 4K HDR2020.
LG released a production 8K TV last year, the UH9800 that supports HDR.
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post #11 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 03:49 PM
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It reminds me of SACD and DVD-A. gkdiamond said the casual users/consumers drive the market and not enthusiasts. I think he maybe correct. Unless the price comes down to what an average TV buyer will pay. If it follows the path of 1080 where the prices are actually less that older 420P large screen TVs then of course it will continue.

Price bracket matters, if it becomes affordable to every day TV users it will stay. As long as the hardware plays older DVD's, Blueray's and non-HDR media I do not see it as a problem. It will just become a "standard" feature.
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post #12 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 03:50 PM
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Didn't vote because It depends on the networks and cable companies IF they will even carry it.
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post #13 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 03:56 PM
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8K

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post
LG released a production 8K TV last year, the UH9800 that supports HDR.
what size screen will be required to see a noticeable difference between 8K and 4K?
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post #14 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
Heck some people still watch DVDs.
So what you're saying is, just because something new comes along. People don't throw their old equipment in the trash to get new one?

My mind has been blown.

Seriously. Of course this will be the case. But who cares about those people? If they're not in the market for a new television, of course they wont give a crap.
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post #15 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If the studios were smart, they would release a HDR10 version first, and then a DV version which also includes HDR10. People end up double dipping, which means more money for them. I still have no idea why the studios include the blu ray version with UHD version. Drop the price on the UHD movies and not include the blu ray version. The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
Its because of two reasons, first being not everyone buying a UHD title owns a UHD source or UDTV. So you can buy it now, play it on your HD setup and move up later. Second is that the BD might include extras that are not available on the UHD release so it doesn't cost them very much to include it. BD can also be extended versions compared to the UHD offering only a theater version as a additional thought.

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post #16 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoJT View Post
what size screen will be required to see a noticeable difference between 8K and 4K?
I do not have the math and I have not seen anything on screen size vs. distance for 8K but at 10 feet it would be a very large screen. It is also dependent on eye sight and the pixel size of the particular TV being watched. For me, I doubt I would ever need an 8K TV.
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post #17 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post
For all the reasons you stated that is exactly why it is NOT here to stay. Videophiles/enthusiast do not drive the market - consumers do.

Remember commodore 64's and 386 computers? In your pocket is a computer faster than anything from that time, and do you consider yourself a computerphile? How about the kid next door who has the same exact computer in his pocket?


Regardless of what video and audiophiles think, or how long we try to hold on to the good 'ol days, new tech will always make AV look better, sound better, transfer faster, and be more immersive.


20 years from now, HDR WCG will look like a VHS tape does now, and consumers will expect the new standards, even if it isn't bleeding edge for the day.

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post #18 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
It's here to stay but I don't share the same thoughts on it being revolutionary and seeing it as some huge improvement as others do. It's a bump in image quality only some of the time and definitely not enough to get regular (non videophiles) tv viewers to jump onboard and start buying all new expensive equipment. Most will think HD is "good enou." Heck some people still watch DVDs.

Clearly you have not seen HDR.
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post #19 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Remember commodore 64's and 386 computers? In your pocket is a computer faster than anything from that time, and do you consider yourself a computerphile? How about the kid next door who has the same exact computer in his pocket?
Exactly, everyone has one - it's consumer driven. And yes, I do consider myself a computerphile. I just built my latest, I call it the "Black Guru".

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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Regardless of what video and audiophiles think, or how long we try to hold on to the good 'ol days, new tech will always make AV look better, sound better, transfer faster, and be more immersive.
Remember 3D, if the consumer does not want it it becomes a fad. Lots of new technology has gone the way of the fad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
20 years from now, HDR WCG will look like a VHS tape does now, and consumers will expect the new standards, even if it isn't bleeding edge for the day.
WOW, I can not wait!
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post #20 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 05:35 PM
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Most definitely HDR is here to stay. How else are they going to get people to fork over more money to upgrade their displays, upgrade their AVR's, upgrade their cables, pay again for the same movie already purchased before on DVD and BD, 3D, etc.?

4k UHD blu ray is not enough of an improvement over standard FHD 1080p blu ray to make people shell out extra $$$. HDR in 4k (when done well) is enough to make some purchase their favorite film yet again from the movie studios, and HDR made me want to upgrade my display from 1080p plasma. I will probably upgrade my AVR to a HDR in the not so distant future as well.

OLEDs already do perfect black and even high-end LCDs are to the point of rapidly diminishing returns in black levels. People are not going to fork over more $$$ for increasingly minuscule incremental improvements in black levels.

So, now that display manufacturers have finally been so gracious as to finally allow us to enjoy decent blacks in a flat panel, they cannot squeeze much more out of our pocketbooks, so let's get videophiles to chase ever-greater specular highlights and peak luminance.

$$$ is driving the push to HDR, pure and simple.

HDR when done properly and on a capable display is total eye candy, and they will continue to get me to open my wallet to satisfy my desire.

First time I ever laid eyes on an OLED TV was just over month ago, an E6 playing that LG Chess Demo, and I said, I've got to have that!

I had never bothered to see any OLEDs the previous 3 years because I was content with my plasma, which with a bias light, has decent blacks, perfect screen uniformity (no DSE, banding) and good motion.
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post #21 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 05:46 PM
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This is like asking if color tv is here to stay. Of course it is. That doesn't preclude black and white films from being made when the director feels appropriate. Likewise, not every film and show needs HDR, but when all the cameras use HDR and all the content delivery and tv's support HDR, then it will be there, you'd need to consciously remove it from content at that point and that will likely be a rare film.
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post #22 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 05:57 PM
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i voted here to stay, it really doesn't make any sense to kill it off until it's replaced with 'super high dynamic range'. i mean it's not a feature that will get old, it's just evolution of video reproduction, like increasing pixels. even if it's not needed, its not something that will make video worse for a large segment of the population like 3D did. but realistically i will NOT be the one making this decision.

i expect that HDR will either be the standard or dead and gone for a few years before i buy into it. the fact is, i'm just nowhere near an 'upgrade cycle' with my gear right now, and i see no reason to jump into anything new at the moment. even with 'improved standards' there are some drawbacks, so it's like 3 steps forward, 2 steps back(or maybe 2 forward, 3 back, don't know yet), and i'm happy with what i have now(haven't been able to say that for a long time!)
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post #23 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkdiamond View Post


Remember 3D, if the consumer does not want it it becomes a fad. Lots of new technology has gone the way of the fad.


3D was a missed opportunity. The technology was there to make it really special, but the renderings I saw just didn't look realistic. Instead of having real depth, singular objects just appeared on different planes.


The real reason (other than very limited content) I think it failed though was the need for extra equipment (glasses) which mostly worked when you wanted them to. Consumers just want to push play and watch, not find the glasses, make sure they have batteries, pair them, test to make sure they are working, pair your buddy's glasses etc.... and that's why HDR is here to stay but 3D isn't. I can turn on my set, push play on an Amazon prime show and get HDR. No extra steps or gear needed, and it looks great.

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post #24 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
It's here to stay but I don't share the same thoughts on it being revolutionary and seeing it as some huge improvement as others do. It's a bump in image quality only some of the time and definitely not enough to get regular (non videophiles) tv viewers to jump onboard and start buying all new expensive equipment. Most will think HD is "good enou." Heck some people still watch DVDs.
i agree with you, i don't think it's anything more than the usual evolution of picture quality. although, i think it's worth pointing out, that as a 'standard' it's HIGHLY dependent on the technology using it. just because the tv or source is 'hdr' doesn't mean it's automatically better. but a high end display with HDR will be more life-like than a high end display without HDR
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post #25 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 08:33 PM
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HDR is here to stay. It appears that some don't like it. I'm wondering if it's because of poor implementation out of the gate? Poor post production finishing? Poorly implemented in the TV? Poor transfer to disk?

It seems as though implementation has been a bit hap hazard out of the gate with no calibration standard to start with (we've got one started now it seems but it's still evolving is it not?). Unused meta-data capability (peak bright and dark set to 0 if I remember right, an unused feature). TVs/monitors of various capability's. When the TV starts making assumptions and auto adjusting it's own setting on a static image then you know there's bound to be some strange/hap hazard results. If you watch the same movie twice and pause in different spots for a break it could look considerably different.

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I still have no idea why the studios include the blu ray version with UHD version. Drop the price on the UHD movies and not include the blu ray version. The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
I like having the HD BD because I can start collecting UHD/HDR movies without having to upgrade my player. I'm not replacing my old library, at least till prices drop considerably.

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post #26 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If the studios were smart, they would release a HDR10 version first, and then a DV version which also includes HDR10. People end up double dipping, which means more money for them. I still have no idea why the studios include the blu ray version with UHD version. Drop the price on the UHD movies and not include the blu ray version. The majority of us already have the blu ray version.
Merchants hate giving multiple sku's to one title, not a big deal to on-line merchants, but brick and mortar stores hate it. They prefer to carry a combo pack for a title and therefore have more titles on the shelf. Factor in that many new titles still come out on dvd and you are easily looking at two sku's per title.

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post #27 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 09:37 PM
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HDR is here to stay, and as time goes on it's going to be the standard in how new material is released. Eventually regular Blu-Rays will be supplanted by UHD Blu-Rays, almost all of which will have HDR grading, and streaming services can stream HDR material just as easily as they can non-HDR material right now.

I have a feeling the gaming market is also going to be a big driver for HDR content. I'm not a big gamer myself, but from hearing reports from those who are really into it apparently HDR can make a big difference.

The lack of special eyewear to enjoy HDR is also a major difference between that and 3D, as mentioned in the article. The thing that kept my from ever being that interested in 3D is the lack of any desire to wear something on my face to watch a movie.
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post #28 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 09:43 PM
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I wish 3D stuck around. I got into it late, but I think it makes certain types of films that much more engrossing. Wearing the glasses doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would back before using it.

At least the average consumer knew what 3D was - none of them know what HDR is.

Between Atmos and DTS X, and 4k/HDR/WCG, and none of them really seeing much use, now is just a really weird time to upgrade. I'll be sitting it out.
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post #29 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FresnoJT View Post
what size screen will be required to see a noticeable difference between 8K and 4K?
Probably require folks to tear out a wall and install a 150"+ TV or get bionic eyes.

4K is mostly hype as it is. 8K is pure marketing, nothing more -- nobody will sit close enough or have a big enough TV for 8K to matter.
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post #30 of 150 Old 01-30-2017, 10:00 PM
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Probably require folks to tear out a wall and install a 150"+ TV or get bionic eyes.

4K is mostly hype as it is. 8K is pure marketing, nothing more -- nobody will sit close enough or have a big enough TV for 8K to matter.


There will always be a few crazies who want to sit 4 feet away from an 80" screen...most of 'em hang out around here too.

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