AVS Forum Meetup with Sony at CEDIA 2017 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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AVS Forum Meetup with Sony at CEDIA 2017

Sony hosted an AVS Forum meetup at CEDIA 2017, which included some side-by-side comparisons of projectors and flat-panel TVs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-forum-me...-cedia-2017-2/
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post #2 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 12:39 PM
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So the Sony had better blacks than the LG?

As far as the Q9 - was the color over saturated, or?

.
Sony A1E or Sony Z9D
Sony X1000 or Oppo 203
Sony HT-ST5000 or GoldenEar SuperCinema 3D Array XL
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post #3 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 02:15 PM
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Hi Scott,

It might be added that all of the projectors were in their 'default' mode, and we got to somewhat verify this, not only on Saturday, but also in the day before's class. There was an attempt to make further adjustments on the JVC by someone, in some form or fashion, on Friday. But I suppose with out a full calibration of both, making it a completely 'level playing field', the results could be disputed. That being said, I've had experience with both brands over the years, and it was really neck and neck in my mind. Further adjustments might render some perceptible differences, but all in all I think the end results would be very close. Personally I found the whole presentation to be quite honest, fascinating, and very revealing. Philip seem to 'put it all out there'... Either are great projectors. You can't go wrong. But the Sony for $10K cheaper is a good deal. Of course we all know where this goes... JVC will better it next year, and it will be half the price And so on...

Thanks for having the 'meet-up'!

Ted.
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post #4 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 03:37 PM
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I thought the 285 looked great all around.
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post #5 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted C View Post
I thought the 285 looked great all around.
Come on, give me something more! For us who weren't there,i don't know if it's worth getting the 285 or rather just saving up more for the 385.
1.) How was the 285 compared to the epson 5040ub which was my first choice till this sony came along!
2.) Are the blacks terrible compared to the epson?
Help me out here
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post #6 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 04:34 PM
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Dolby Vision

Just curios. Did anyone ask when the Dolby Vision update is coming? Or for that matter any software update that fixes the manual panel refresh on the A1E?

Thanks

Sony XBR65A1E | Sony XBR75X940D | Fujitsu AVIAMO P65FT00AUB
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post #7 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Sony hosted an AVS Forum meetup at CEDIA 2017, which included some side-by-side comparisons of projectors and flat-panel TVs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-forum-me...-cedia-2017-2/
So, if you had to choose from the flat panels, which one would you choose? Was there consensus among those who were there about which one looked best?
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post #8 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sahil0909 View Post
How was the demo between the sony 285 and the epson 5040ub? Which one looked better in terms of picture quality? And also, were the blacks on the 285 horrible, epecially compared to the epson 5040ub especially since the sony doesn't have a dynamic iris?
I didn't think the blacks on the 285 were bad at all; certainly not horrible by any means. The comparison between the 5040UB and 285 didn't last very long, so I wouldn't base a buying decision on any comments from this event. Mark Henninger is getting a 285 very soon; if I were you, I'd wait for his review, which I'm sure he will post as quickly as possible.

I will say that the Epson's HDMI input tops out at 10.2 Gbps, while the Sony's is 13.5 Gbps. This means the Epson can only do 10-bit HDR at 4:2:0, even at 24 fps, while the Sony can do up to 12-bit 4:4:4 at 24 fps and 12-bit 4:2:0 at 60 fps. I really wish Sony had implemented 18 Gbps on all three projectors; it can't be much more expensive than 13.5 Gbps. Still, it's better than the Epson. As we saw at the event, the Epson choked on the Oppo 203's default output of 12-bit 4:4:4 at 24 fps.
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post #9 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PlatinumSV View Post
Just curios. Did anyone ask when the Dolby Vision update is coming? Or for that matter any software update that fixes the manual panel refresh on the A1E?

Thanks
I asked about Dolby Vision, and I got the same answer as before: "By the end of the year." And of course, that's for the A1E and Z9D, not the projectors, which will not get Dolby Vision at all. I didn't ask about the panel refresh on the A1E. In fact, I hadn't heard of any problem with that until this post. What is the problem? What is "manual panel refresh"?

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post #10 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wified View Post
So, if you had to choose from the flat panels, which one would you choose? Was there consensus among those who were there about which one looked best?
Personally, I would choose the A1E. But if I watched a lot of sports in a lot of ambient light (which I don't), I'd choose the Z9D.

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post #11 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ted C View Post
Hi Scott,

It might be added that all of the projectors were in their 'default' mode, and we got to verify this, not only on Saturday, but also in the day before's class. Speaking of the day before, a gentleman who was obviously a fan of the 4500, and was disputing Sony's claims, was encouraged by Philip to take the JVC's remote and do what ever he wanted to try and better the 885. First he raised the contrast on the 4500, which in turn, really messed things up in the color uniformity. He made other adjustments too, including picture mode settings, but to no avail. This lead Philip to demonstrate the contrast/HDR slider on the 885 which did not exhibit the same behavior. When he raised or lowered the slider, the colors stayed the same. It was a bit of an embarrassing moment for the 4500. After a 'Wow!' or two, the room of over 50-ppl got pretty quiet...

I found the whole presentation honest, fascinating, and very revealing. Philip seem to 'put it all out there'...

Thanks for having the 'meet-up'!

Ted.
Glad you could make it! Actually, I did mention that all the projectors were in their default modes: "The first presentation was all about projectors, which Sony claimed were in their best "out of box" picture modes with no other tweaking." In other words, their best default settings. Very interesting about the JVC fan's tweaking! I agree that Philip is a great presenter, and he provided excellent info. In fact, I'm going to have him on Home Theater Geeks to cover some of the same stuff for more folks to see; that is scheduled for the Oct. 12 show.
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post #12 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 09:12 PM
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Awesome! This will be a great show.
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Philip is great! We worked together in a stereo shop years ago, and he would always take the time to teach the new guys/gals about the different products.

very knowledgeable and friendly guy.
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Red face Sony Blu-Ray Player

Which model was used for demo?
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post #15 of 26 Old 09-15-2017, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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which model was used for demo?
ubp-x800

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post #16 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 02:40 AM
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I didn't think the blacks on the 285 were bad at all; certainly not horrible by any means. The comparison between the 5040UB and 285 didn't last very long, so I wouldn't base a buying decision on any comments from this event. Mark Henninger is getting a 285 very soon; if I were you, I'd wait for his review, which I'm sure he will post as quickly as possible.

I will say that the Epson's HDMI input tops out at 10.2 Gbps, while the Sony's is 13.5 Gbps. This means the Epson can only do 10-bit HDR at 4:2:0, even at 24 fps, while the Sony can do up to 12-bit 4:4:4 at 24 fps and 12-bit 4:2:0 at 60 fps. I really wish Sony had implemented 18 Gbps on all three projectors; it can't be much more expensive than 13.5 Gbps. Still, it's better than the Epson. As we saw at the event, the Epson choked on the Oppo 203's default output of 12-bit 4:4:4 at 24 fps.
Wow! Allow me to geek out first scott, i'm a really big fan of you and you're like a reference point for me on this stuff, i always try never to miss any of your videos! And i certainly didn't think i'd get a reply from you!
So thank you so much for restoring my confidence in the sony as i'm really pulled toward it especially considering the incredible price! That's great that mark will be getting a unit, i think you're right that will be the best way to judge the performance after someone has reviewed it!

Just one concern that has cropped up after someone actually already recieved his VW385ES from amazon, it has shown that the sony actually can't do 4k HDR 60Hz without banding, and that seemed like a let down to many. But fortunately after more testing it has shown that it can atleast do 4k SDR 60Hz without banding! Which could be a great compromise if the sonys will allow us to do 4K 60Hz SDR (with wide color gamut, Rec 2020) maybe by using the HDFury? Do you think that would be possible?

Thanks again for replying scott
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post #17 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 04:17 AM
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Dang! How can I missed this event? I was there at CEDIA2017
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post #18 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sahil0909 View Post
Wow! Allow me to geek out first scott, i'm a really big fan of you and you're like a reference point for me on this stuff, i always try never to miss any of your videos! And i certainly didn't think i'd get a reply from you!
So thank you so much for restoring my confidence in the sony as i'm really pulled toward it especially considering the incredible price! That's great that mark will be getting a unit, i think you're right that will be the best way to judge the performance after someone has reviewed it!

Just one concern that has cropped up after someone actually already recieved his VW385ES from amazon, it has shown that the sony actually can't do 4k HDR 60Hz without banding, and that seemed like a let down to many. But fortunately after more testing it has shown that it can atleast do 4k SDR 60Hz without banding! Which could be a great compromise if the sonys will allow us to do 4K 60Hz SDR (with wide color gamut, Rec 2020) maybe by using the HDFury? Do you think that would be possible?

Thanks again for replying scott
Thanks for the kind words! Regarding the 385 not being able to do 4K HDR at 60 Hz without banding, that's probably because the source device downshifted to 8 bits. I don't know for sure, but that would be my guess. There's really no point in doing 8-bit SDR with wide color gamut; you need at least 10 bits to reproduce WCG without banding.

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post #19 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Dang! How can I missed this event? I was there at CEDIA2017
Sorry to miss you! I posted an announcement on AVS Forum a week before the show...

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post #20 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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Thanks for the kind words! Regarding the 385 not being able to do 4K HDR at 60 Hz without banding, that's probably because the source device downshifted to 8 bits. I don't know for sure, but that would be my guess. There's really no point in doing 8-bit SDR with wide color gamut; you need at least 10 bits to reproduce WCG without banding.
It's a pleasure scott. So it turns out he already confirmed 4K 60p 10bit 4:2:0 output from his Oppo 203. But it couldn't play it without banding. It's really surprising considering the 13gb chip should be enough to play it without any banding right?
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post #21 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a pleasure scott. So it turns out he already confirmed 4K 60p 10bit 4:2:0 output from his Oppo 203. But it couldn't play it without banding. It's really surprising considering the 13gb chip should be enough to play it without any banding right?
Hmmm, that's pretty strange. Maybe it's because the input signal is 4:2:0? I would think the projector's processor would upscale the chroma subsampling well. Again, I really wish Sony had implemented 18 Gbps on all three of the new projectors.
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post #22 of 26 Old 09-16-2017, 04:35 PM
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Hmmm, that's pretty strange. Maybe it's because the input signal is 4:2:0? I would think the projector's processor would upscale the chroma subsampling well. Again, I really wish Sony had implemented 18 Gbps on all three of the new projectors.
Very true indeed, very strange from sony.
Thanks for your replies though scott, i really appreciate it
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
When the Optoma was replaced with an Epson Home Cinema 5040UB (pixel-shifted “4K Enhanced,” LCD, 3000 lumens, $2700), the screen went blank. As Philip explained, that’s because the Epson’s HDMI ports operate at a maximum bitrate of 10.2 Gbps, and the player was sending 13.4 Gbps (24p, 12-bit, 4:4:4). I was amazed to learn that most 4K/UHD source devices, such as UHD Blu-ray players, Roku, and game consoles, actually send 12-bit 4:4:4 HDR, even though UHD Blu-rays, for example, store HDR at 10-bit 4:2:0. (This is the subject of an entire article on its own, which I’ll defer for now.) When Philip switched the player to 8-bit 4:2:2, the Epson was able to display it, but there was obvious banding in both displays.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-forum-me...-cedia-2017-2/
Hi Scott

Highlighted in red above, perhaps a typo, as in, did you mean "When Philip switched the player to 12-bit 4:2:2" ?

As per this article (http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/), and also image in attachment here, the combination 4K 24p, 8-bit, 4:2:2, shows as NS (not supported) for HDMI 2.0 transmission.

___________________

Interestingly, the article also mentions that historically, to get the video displayed on the TV or Projector it typically goes through the following Chroma Sub-Sampling conversions:

(1) - Initial 4:2:0 = Actual Content. Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray both store the video signal in the 4:2:0 Chroma Sub-Sampling format (lossy color)
(2) - 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 = Historically the source player performs intermediary chroma upsampling from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2, which is sent over HDMI (lossy color)
(3) - 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 = Then the display performs another intermediary chroma upsampling from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 (lossless color)
(4) - Y’CbCr to RGB = Then the display converts to Y’CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB (lossless color)

The reason for this sequence is that historically HDMI v1.4 and previous iterations did not support sending 4:2:0.
At 24/25/30 fps 8bit and 10 bit, HDMI2.0 only supports sending 4:4:4/RGB
At 24/25/30 fps 12bit, HDMI2.0 supports sending 4:2:2 or 4:4:4/RGB
But now HDMI2.0 already does support sending 4:2:0, though only at 50/60 fps.
Sony bold plan is to count on the Player to successfully negotiate sending lower bandwidth 4K 60fps 12 bit 4:2:0 via HDMI2.0 towards the Sony VPL-VW285ES and VPL-VW385ES.
The Player sending
4K 60fps 12 bit 4:2:0 keeps it under the 13.5Gbps bandwidth limit (good for Sony), instead of the Player sending 4K 60fps 12 bit 4:2:2 (17.8Gbps)
Then, having already bypassed the Player intermediary
chroma upsampling, Sony bold plan is to count on the VPL-VW285ES and VPL-VW385ES to perform the full chroma upsampling from received 4:2:0 all the way to 4:4:4 and convert to RGB.
If we are unlucky and by any chance a Player fails to negotiate sending
this new lower bandwidth 4K 60fps 12 bit 4:2:0, Sony plan will not work, and we risk having issues with the VPL-VW285ES and VPL-VW385ES combined with certain players.

___________________

Using this same logic, I ran some calculations myself for HDR required HDMI bandwith using different combinations of the variables, and had some interesting results (see below)
- 1080p (2K) vs 2160p (4K) vs 4320p (8K) pixel resolution
- 8bit (not optimal for HDR) vs 10 bit (HDR) vs 12 bit (HDR), for each color
- 30fps vs 60fps vs 120fps
- 4:2:0 (lossy color) vs 4:2:2 (lossy color) vs 4:4:4/RGB (lossless color) chroma sub-sampling
- HDMI1.4 @10Gbps vs HDMI 2.0 @ 18Gbps vs HDMI 2.1 @ 48Gbps vs HDMI 2.1 @ DSC 144Gbps limit

__________

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 30fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
2.2Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
1.5Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
1.1Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 30fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
2.8Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
1.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
1.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 30fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
3.3Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
2.2Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 1.0 4.95Gbps limit.
1.6Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

__________

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 60fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
4.4Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
2.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
2.2Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 60fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
5.6Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
3.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
2.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 60fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
6.7Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
4.5Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 1.3 10.2Gbps limit
3.3Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

__________

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 120fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
8.9Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
5.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
4.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 120fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
11.1Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
7.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
5.6Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

1920 x 1080 (2K) @ 120fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
13.4Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
8.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 1.3 10.2Gbps limit
6.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0
_____
_____
_____
_____

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 30fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
8.9Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
5.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
4.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 30fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
11.1Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
7.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
5.5Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 30fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
13.4Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
8.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 1.4 10.2Gbps limit
6.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

__________

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 60fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
17.9Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
11.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
8.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 60fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
22.4Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
14.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
11.1Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 60fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
26.8Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
17.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 2.0 18Gbps limit, but above Sony VPL-VW285ES and VPL-VW385ES 13.5Gbps limit
13.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (2*) If negotiation is successful, what the Player will have to send to the Sony VPL-VW285ES and VPL-VW385ES, to keep under 13.5Gbps limit

__________

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 120fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
35.8Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
23.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
17.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 120fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
44.8Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
29.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
22.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

3840 x 2160 (4K) @ 120fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
53.7Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
35.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 2.1 48Gbps limit
26.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

_____
_____
_____
_____

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 30fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
35.8Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
23.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
17.9Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 30fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
44.8Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
29.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
22.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 30fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
53.7Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
35.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, BELOW HDMI 2.1 48Gbps limit
26.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

__________

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 60fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
71.6Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
47.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
35.8Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 60fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
89.5Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
59.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
44.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 60fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
107.5Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
71.6Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, ABOVE HDMI 2.1 48Gbps limit (BELOW HDMI2.1 DSC 144Gbps limit)
53.7Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

__________

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 120fps @ 8bit per color (not optimal for HDR)
143.3Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
95.5Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
71.6Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 120fps @ 10bit per color (HDR)
179.1Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4
119.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2
89.5Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0 <------- (1) After HEVC decoding, content is on Player buffer, HDR 10bit, before HDMI transmission

7680 x 4320 (8K) @ 120fps @ 12bit per color (HDR)
214.9Gbps @ RGB/Y’CbCr 4:4:4<------- (3) Output after Display performs chroma upsampling/conversion
143.3Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:2 <------- (2) What the Player sends via HDMI, ABOVE HDMI 2.1 48Gbps limit (BELOW HDMI2.1 DSC 144Gbps limit)
107.4Gbps @ Y’CbCr 4:2:0

__________

Sorry for the big post : )
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Last edited by Haiej; 09-21-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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post #24 of 26 Old 09-21-2017, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Glad you could make it! Actually, I did mention that all the projectors were in their default modes: "The first presentation was all about projectors, which Sony claimed were in their best "out of box" picture modes with no other tweaking." In other words, their best default settings. Very interesting about the JVC fan's tweaking! I agree that Philip is a great presenter, and he provided excellent info. In fact, I'm going to have him on Home Theater Geeks to cover some of the same stuff for more folks to see; that is scheduled for the Oct. 12 show.
Thank you Scott.
It is going to be amazing to have Phill Jones on your Home Theater Geeks show discussing this.

Another interesting Sony related hot topic, that was commented on your other Sony VPL-VW285ES and VW385ES 4K HDR Projectors at CEDIA 2017 thread, is that the Sony PS4 Pro HDR games render everything to a 10-bit RGB buffer.

The question is, after a Sony PS4 Pro HDR 60fps game, like the new Gran Turismo Sport, is internally rendered to a 10-bit RGB buffer, how does the video signal output is sent using chroma subsampling via HDMI 2.0 from the Sony PS4 Pro to the Sony VPL-VW285ES and VPL-VW385ES, while still preserving as much of the gaming engine rendering original RGB color information ?

For displays with 18Gbps HDMI inputs:
- PS4 Pro changes from 4K 60fps 10-bit RGB HDR internal buffer to 4K 60fps 12-bit 4:2:2 HDR, which is then sent over HDMI2.0 (this requires 17.8Gbps HDMI bandwidth), and then the display upsamples chroma to 4K 60fps 12-bit 4:4:4 HDR and converts to 4K 60fps 12-bit RGB HDR for display
- intermediary chroma downsampling from RGB to 4:2:2, loses less of the original rendered RGB color information, compared to the 13.5Gbps scenario below

For displays with 13.5Gbps HDMI inputs:
- PS4 Pro changes from 4K 60fps 10-bit RGB HDR internal buffer to 4K 60fps 12-bit 4:2:0 HDR, which is then sent over HDMI2.0 (this requires 13.4Gbps HDMI bandwidth), and then the display upsamples chroma to 4K 60fps 12-bit 4:4:4 HDR and converts to 4K 60fps 12-bit RGB HDR for display
- intermediary chroma downsampling from RGB to 4:2:0, loses more of the original rendered RGB color information, compared to the 18Gbps scenario above


This questions may also apply for other PC HDR 60fps games, or other consoles HDR 60fps games, that render to a 10-bit RGB buffer, and will have to not fail successful negotiation of intermediary chroma downsampling from RGB to 4:2:0 before HDMI output, in order to properly work with the Sony VPL-VW285ES/VPL-VW385ES
13.5Gbps HDMI inputs.

Last edited by Haiej; 09-21-2017 at 10:55 AM.
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post #25 of 26 Old 09-25-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Personally, I would choose the A1E. But if I watched a lot of sports in a lot of ambient light (which I don't), I'd choose the Z9D.
So the 75" Z9D in a larger family room with a row of windows at the back of the room... and a 65" A1E in a darker/more forgiving master bedroom?

That sound about right?
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post #26 of 26 Old 10-01-2017, 08:50 PM
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Did anyone who attended happen to notice which anamorphic lens was used to demo the 885?
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