Official Logitech Harmony 900 thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 05:30 PM
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I have to say that I am happy with my new Harmony 900. I upgraded from the One. The only part that gave me a hard time was setting the remote to turn on and off my Tivo HD XL.

The One was able to turn on and off this device with a simple setup. For the 900 I needed to take some extra steps. But it was my fault, not the 900.

It is so nice to be able to push the buttons without the need to aim at the devices. No need to press the help so often because one device did not turn on or the TV did not change to the appropriate input just because i did not aim correctly.

The blaster is powerful enough to reach all my devices.
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post #272 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab View Post

I would argue that logitech decided not to market this remote to the masses when they priced it at $400 then they excluded another part of the interested consumers when they decided to remove sequences

I am still buying it though lol - unless I find a very good RF remote within the next 2-3 weeks......

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but you should seriously consider the just released (finally) AR Xsight Touch which is very similar to the 900 and about $100 less. The really cool thing about this remote is it controls DirecTV receivers via RF without an extender. That makes it truly unique among universal remotes.

Sorry for the detour. Back on topic now...

I'm extremely pleased to hear that logitech is paying some attention to the pleas for sequences. I've noticed many user reviews mention the lack of sequences. I wonder why nearly every mainstream reviewer doesn't mention this gaping hole in functionality.
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post #273 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 07:24 PM
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amazon order has shipped via ups, will be here tomorrow, now if only I could find an extra blaster
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post #274 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 08:13 PM
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I know not everyone uses favorites, but now that the remote is shipping I thought I'd repost that I'm taking requests for the 900 icons. The beta sets are currently available at iconharmony. I'll gladly add to those any new channels.
,R

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post #275 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squareeyes View Post

I know not everyone uses favorites, but now that the remote is shipping I thought I'd repost that I'm taking requests for the 900 icons. The beta sets are currently available at iconharmony. I'll gladly add to those any new channels.
,R

Just convert them ALL!! That'll keep you busy!

Looks like you got a "double-secret Plutonium donor!" Yay Yay!

Joe in West Los Angeles, CA
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post #276 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but you should seriously consider the just released (finally) AR Xsight Touch which is very similar to the 900 and about $100 less. The really cool thing about this remote is it controls DirecTV receivers via RF without an extender. That makes it truly unique among universal remotes.

Sorry for the detour. Back on topic now...

I'm extremely pleased to hear that logitech is paying some attention to the pleas for sequences. I've noticed many user reviews mention the lack of sequences. I wonder why nearly every mainstream reviewer doesn't mention this gaping hole in functionality.

IR (infrared) and RF (433 MHz radio frequency) operation, the latter for controlling DIRECTV boxes and components hidden in a cabinet or out of the remote's line of sight (requires $99.99 ARRE433B RF Extender Kit)

Not $100 less since you have to add the RF kit
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post #277 of 2799 Old 08-27-2009, 10:39 PM
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I'll get right on that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe221 View Post

Just convert them ALL!! That'll keep you busy!

Looks like you got a "double-secret Plutonium donor!" Yay Yay!


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post #278 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squareeyes View Post

I know not everyone uses favorites, but now that the remote is shipping I thought I'd repost that I'm taking requests for the 900 icons. The beta sets are currently available at iconharmony. I'll gladly add to those any new channels.
,R

How do we place our requests? Here, by PM or on your website?

Steve
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post #279 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab View Post

I would argue that logitech decided not to market this remote to the masses when they priced it at $400 then they excluded another part of the interested consumers when they decided to remove sequences

I am still buying it though lol - unless I find a very good RF remote within the next 2-3 weeks......

I would argue that the masses don't use or need sequences. Otherwise, Logitech woudn't have excluded them. Even you, who don't identify with masses in this regard, have decided to buy this remote even without the feature. I will be buying it also, once any initial bugs are worked out.

I do agree, however, for what it costs, $400, the remote should have the versatility to do everything, not only for the average guy like me, but for the more technically inclined who will take advantage of this feature.
While we may not need sequences now, it is just nice to know that you won't have to upgrade your remote quickly, just because, down the road, you upgraded your system and then needed sequences.
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post #280 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevetd View Post

How do we place our requests? Here, by PM or on your website?

any of those will do. from past experience though a forum post works best as others will usually see it and know which icons are up.

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post #281 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:18 AM
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Forgive my ignorance...

What do you guys use sequences for?
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post #282 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab View Post

IR (infrared) and RF (433 MHz radio frequency) operation, the latter for controlling DIRECTV boxes and components hidden in a cabinet or out of the remote's line of sight (requires $99.99 ARRE433B RF Extender Kit)

Not $100 less since you have to add the RF kit

Sorry about that. $50 difference then.
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post #283 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodean View Post

Forgive my ignorance...

What do you guys use sequences for?

I don't use them myself, but it's been mentioned before...
- turning captions on/off
- combining play command with dim for lights and pause with raising the light level (so people with IR lighting)
- like captions, if your device lacks discrete commands for certain functions like aspect ratio, game mode, etc...
- another user mentioned that directv features like 'to do list' and some others (see post 94 in this thread) are buried without discrete commands
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post #284 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodean View Post

Forgive my ignorance...

What do you guys use sequences for?

i used to have one in my old "listen to cd" activity where i assigned a sequence of commands to the menu button on my harmony one. it would:
-turn on the tv
-switch to the correct video input
-turn on the jukebox onscreen menu via the receiver

so everytime i pushed "menu" that sequence would bring up my jukebox's onscreen menu. because i used the tv's on/off toggle command, another button push would turn it off.

i've read of more creative sequences, like ones that will dim the rooms lights when pressing "play" in a dvd activity. another one i remember reading about was a "answer telephone" soft button created to bring up lights, mute receiver's audio, and pause dvd.

i agree with wtwieder that many users would never use/miss sequences, but they do add a level of robust customization that really would make the 900 appeal to power users, those with more complicated av kits, and especially those with labyrinthine menus to navigate in their setups.

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post #285 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwieder View Post

I would argue that the masses don't use or need sequences. .

Edit: or even know, what sequences are!
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post #286 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodean View Post

Forgive my ignorance...

What do you guys use sequences for?

If you ever have to press more than 2 or 3 buttons to do something, that's a great application for a sequence. Personally I have several for things like commercial skips, toggling captions, changing resolution or aspect ratio, parental controls, favorite channels (not needed on the 900), changing sound or picture modes, synchronized DVR/DVDR playback/recording, brightening and dimming lights, etc. All are things that I'd want to do more than once within an activity, but not necessarily just at the start or end of an activity. There's no good reason to be pressing a lot of buttons to do anything on a universal remote, harmony or otherwise. That's a core function of universal remotes, to save button presses. I've used sequences (macros) heavily in every universal I've had for the past 15 years. It doesn't make any sense for logitech to purposely remove such a core function, but they did.

I would argue that the masses do need sequences. Do most people never have to press more than a couple of buttons to do something with their home theater? Is my system way more complicated than average?

I agree that someone who has never used a universal remote before won't know sequences exist or how to use them. Before activity based remotes, macros (sequences) had to do everything. So it was very common to write macros for activity type stuff plus utility stuff (like I listed above). Do you ever use speed dial on your phone? You'd probably be mad if every new phone lacked speed dial after you'd been using it for years. But if you bought your first phone after speed dial went extinct, you wouldn't know what you were missing and you'd wonder what's the big deal.

I'm a little concerned I have to try so hard to convince a bunch of high-end A/V enthusiasts that universal remotes should be able to do macros.

I admit I don't have a 900 and don't plan to get one. The 900 just happens to be the second crippled remote logitech has released. My main interest in this thread is to have some influence in stopping logitech from removing sequences from ALL future remotes, which appears to be the trend. I love my harmony and hate to see logitech ruin the whole line.
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post #287 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whodean View Post

Forgive my ignorance...

What do you guys use sequences for?

Sequences are just Harmony's word for macros. Most macros can be handled using an Activity. However, if you have a macro that you want to use within a standard Activity, you would use a Sequence. Wannabe and Squareeyes already gave some good examples. Another would involve any piece of equipment which lacks discrete commands for a specific function. For example, the Pioneer KRP-500M Kuro monitors lack a discrete command for the various aspect ratios. Instead, there is a single 'Screen Size' button which toggles between them. So If I'm watching an HD Channel that happens to be airing a 4:3 program, and I want to stretch the image to fill the 16:9 TV, I would need to hit the 'Screen Size' button 4 times to move from 'Dot by Dot' to 'Wide1'. With a simple Sequence, I can create a 'Stretch' soft button, which will automatically fire off 4 'Screen Size' commands to the TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwieder View Post

I would argue that the masses don't use or need sequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwieder View Post

Edit: or even know, what sequences are!

I would argue that based on the $400 pricetag, this is not a remote for the masses. If it was $50, I'd probably agree with you. But most people have a hard time spending $400 on a TV much less a remote. Masses don't use or need macros because they don't have 7 different pieces of equipment that they want to integrate. They have a TV and maybe a cable box.

And I bet most people who are willing to shell out $400 for a remote control do know what macros are.
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post #288 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 08:02 AM
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With my Harmony One I was able to first learn a new command in Raw format as SelectSelect, I then used this new command as part of a 5 command sequence to get to my To Do List., while beta testing the 900 I was able to learn a new command consisting of 5 commands as one and titled it ManageRecordings this consisted of Menu, Direction Down, Direction Down, Direction Down, Select. Then added this new command to my LCD button Then to get to my To Do List, I pressed ManageRecordings and Select and this was twice as fast as using a sequence to get to my To Do List. I did not have to wait until the ManageRecording command had finished before I pressed the Select button I pressed it immediately after pressing the ManageRecordings button
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post #289 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 08:16 AM
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Raw learns are a good alternative and often work better than sequences due to the faster execution. But it's essentially a hack and usually requires another remote that DOES have sequences to teach the harmony. I've used raw learns and an extended JP1 remote to learn a 14 step sequence. But I should be able to program such things directly on any decent universal remote. Logitech should be improving it's sequence capability, not removing it, especially in a remote that costs as much as a laptop.
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post #290 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edpowers View Post

Sequences are just Harmony's word for macros. Most macros can be handled using an Activity. However, if you have a macro that you want to use within a standard Activity, you would use a Sequence. Wannabe and Squareeyes already gave some good examples. Another would involve any piece of equipment which lacks discrete commands for a specific function. For example, the Pioneer KRP-500M Kuro monitors lack a discrete command for the various aspect ratios. Instead, there is a single 'Screen Size' button which toggles between them. So If I'm watching an HD Channel that happens to be airing a 4:3 program, and I want to stretch the image to fill the 16:9 TV, I would need to hit the 'Screen Size' button 4 times to move from 'Dot by Dot' to 'Wide1'. With a simple Sequence, I can create a 'Stretch' soft button, which will automatically fire off 4 'Screen Size' commands to the TV.





I would argue that based on the $400 pricetag, this is not a remote for the masses. If it was $50, I'd probably agree with you. But most people have a hard time spending $400 on a TV much less a remote. Masses don't use or need macros because they don't have 7 different pieces of equipment that they want to integrate. They have a TV and maybe a cable box.

And I bet most people who are willing to shell out $400 for a remote control do know what macros are.

You may be right that the masses can't afford a $400 remote. But I don't believe that only a power user will buy a $400 remote. The average user isn't a power user and will not need, appreciate, or even understand how to use or put sequences together. I certainly don't, nor do I want to spend the time necessary on a remote to get it to do all of those things you say these sequences will do. Still, I want a 900. Why? Even without using sequences, I spent about 10 hours fine tuning my Harmony One. After it was all done, however, I was still disappointed at how directional it was. I returned it knowing I was going to spend even more money for the Harmony 900 that was about to be released. Yes, I can afford a $400 remote. Do I want to spend that? Of course, not, not when a cheap remote does everything I need it to do.

An intermim $50 replacement, the ATT RF remote, does everything I need it to do. It learned the device codes for the 4 devices I need it to operate, and does everything the 4 individual remotes can do, flawlessly. What it can't do is Activities, which I can live without, but my wife can't. She is somewhat challenged when it comes to technology to the point of being frightened by it. At least with the Harmony One she could play a BluRay without my help. For that reason, I will be spending the $400 on the 900 so that I can have my RF and she can have her Activities. If I could find a remote that was as well layed out as the 900 and would have the same functionality for less money, I would certainly buy that. But I haven't found any that come close for less, even without the sequences.
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post #291 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 09:26 AM
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and you can always wait awhile. the 900 isn't going to stay at $400 forever. from past purchase experience, i'd expect a price drop or sale price before or after christmas.

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post #292 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squareeyes View Post

and you can always wait awhile. the 900 isn't going to stay at $400 forever. from past purchase experience, i'd expect a price drop or sale price before or after christmas.

The Harmony One hasn't come down more than about $50. So I don't expect the price of the 900 to drop much more. Whether the 900 is $400 or $350, it is still expensive. Therefore, I'll just probably get it now, particularly since I upset my wife by returning the Harmony One. She couldn't understand what the big deal was I made about having to point the remote at the STB and why I had to return the One so we could get the 900. At least she sees what the Harmony remotes do that the other cheaper remote won't.
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post #293 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwieder View Post

If I could find a remote that was as well layed out as the 900 and would have the same functionality for less money, I would certainly buy that. But I haven't found any that come close for less, even without the sequences.

You can do a lot better than the AT&T remote today for not much money at all. Just about any harmony that uses replaceable batteries plus a next generation RF extender will work beautifully and cost a fraction of the 900. Aside from RF and the layout, what feature of the 900 (or One) can you not live without? You may not care for a particular layout at first, but you can adapt to just about any layout after using it a few days.

If you can live without RF, how do you like $150 for a harmony One refurb?
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post #294 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 10:54 AM
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I am one of those that didn't really know what sequences are before considering the 900. However since I am spending $400 I reaserch it and come up with - hey I want sequences and while I didn't know the word for them that is stuff that I would expect to be able to do with a $400 remote.

I am only considering it due to the RF. It saves me from putting in IR repeaters. definately looking at the XSight now...
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post #295 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

You can do a lot better than the AT&T remote today for not much money at all. Just about any harmony that uses replaceable batteries plus a next generation RF extender will work beautifully and cost a fraction of the 900. Aside from RF and the layout, what feature of the 900 (or One) can you not live without? You may not care for a particular layout at first, but you can adapt to just about any layout after using it a few days.

If you can live without RF, how do you like $150 for a harmony One refurb?

I already had a Harmony One, for which I paid full price. It was much too directional for me, although in every other respect it was great. My wife loved the activities. At half the price for a refurb, it won't be any better for me.

I wanted an RF Remote; that's why I bought the new ATT RF remote, which is better than the ONE because it is point anywhere. It doesn't have activities which my wife needs for device switching, like for BluRay, so I know it is only a temporary remote for my main system until I get the 900. Once I get the 900, the ATT RF Remote will get use with a satellite TV that doesn't require device switching for just the TV and its STB.

The only other RF remote that I might have considered for my main system would have been the Harmony 890. They are currently on clearance at around $200. The key layout is so much better on the 900, and having lived with the same layout on the ONE, why would I want to go backwards to the layout of 890? As I said before, I can afford the 900. Any time you spend more than you intend to spend, you forget what you spent when that item gives you pleasure every time you use it. On the other hand, spend less for a bargain, you realize it isn't a bargain when it comes up short every time you use it.
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post #296 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 02:28 PM
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I just got this good news off of the Harmony forums website:

Quote:


HI Babydoc:

We've followed up with Geek Squad and discovered that the issue they were having was that their computers were all using version 7.5 of the client. It normally updates automatically to 7.6 but was blocked by admistrative rules on their laptops. After updating the software to the latest version, they have since been successful in programming the 900.

We'd like to remind all Harmony 900 customers to ensure they have the latest version of the Logitech Harmony Remote software installed when attempting to set up their remotes. Please note that version 7.6 is included in the box with the remote as well as available for download online.

Thanks,


EricHarmony


Well, I guess you guys were right about the Geek squad. Had they installed or used the software that came with the remote, they wouldn't have had a problem with their updating the remotes.

The only problem I am still having is the BB stores in the Cleveland area, as of this hour, still haven't released the 900's for sale. However, I did find a BB store about 45 minutes away that will sell it. I'll be getting mine on Sunday.
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post #297 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 02:50 PM
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Classic geek squad. Even my granny knows one of the first troubleshooting steps should be to make sure you have the latest software/drivers.
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post #298 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 04:32 PM
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This updates settings so much faster than any previous harmony experience- worth 400 dollars just for that if you ask me. Shouldn't take me long to program everything.
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post #299 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 06:31 PM
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if anyone of you works in a corporate environment, you know that you CAN'T update or install anything on your own without administrative rights. literally, I'm stuck with internet explorer at work because I can't install firefox. heck, I can't even access a USB thumb drive because of how the system is rigged.

so they probably never got a prompt for a new version

that said, the remotes work fine on 7.6 and geek squad was wrong to 'start a panic' without troubleshooting the problem first
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post #300 of 2799 Old 08-28-2009, 09:06 PM
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Well I'm glad I read this entire thread. After the first few posts I thought about passing on this remote. Now I'm not so sure.

Currently I have an 880 controlling things in the Family Room, where I have an LCD, AVR, DVR, VCR, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, Laserdisc, and Wii. All the equipment is in front of the sofas, so the 880 works just fine.

Downstairs I have an 890 controlling pretty much the same stuff, except I have a projector suspended from the ceiling, and the equipment in a rack behind the sofas. Oh yeah, and 9 zones of IR dimmers.

I use sequences downstairs and will miss them. (I use "Pause Movie", "Dim Move", and "Change A/R" sequences.)

BUT, my "Movie" sequences adjust the lights (Lutron Spacer System) via IR, requiring me to point my remote at the dimmers for that part to work. And I can only point it at one gang of dimmers at a time. I have three. I thought about swapping all my dimmers out for Leviton Vizia ones, which are Z-Wave, but that would be about $1,000. And it seems like Logitech is dropping Z-Wave support, so what would happen if my 890 got broken a few years from now?

I use the IR blaster in the door of my rack, and one IR extender taped to my projector. (I got a 15' 3.5mm extender cable from Radio Shack to connect the blaster to the extender on the PJ.) It would not be practical, or possible, or aesthetically pleasing to tape IR extenders to the dimmer switches.

If I get the 900 I can put a mini blaster on top of the PJ and finally control the lights. Lastly, I suffer from the double-tap error with the arrow buttons.

I hate giving up the sequences, but I could (perhaps) program buttons for "Lights On" and "Lights Off". Hopefully, the mini blasters will do what I want (control the lights from the PJ.)

I'll do some more research, as well as sign the sequence petition.

Thanks for all the info, Wannabe.

-Marc
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