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post #11371 of 11396 Old 10-02-2017, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by d_c View Post
Well that sucks considering it took a kajillion hours and a couple grand to get everything to work. 4 years to switch to something different isn't too bad though
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Good info and at least we know what is happening. That's quite a long time for them to give the product before shutting down. At least there is no rush to transition. SJ
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Looks like "my friend" still has some time!


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Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Very happy to hear this !

Four more years is plenty of reason for me to stick with iRule for now.

I had already started planning a completely new look and functionality for the change to a new system, but now I'll implement it in iRule instead.

Cheers,
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This is so crazy that it just might work!!!

Of course, if they plan on giving us the shaft, they may be chickens and not want to reach out and hear from us...
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The builder seems very similar. The major difference is that it only seems to work with their hardware for integration into a system. SJ
As an On Controls Premier Dealer, I have already begun making the transition to Kramer Controls. I am in the process of finishing up a couple of On Controls projects before moving myself and clients to the new system. The Kramer system is very, very, very similar to iRule / On Controls with several new features and many improvements to the builder interface. After all, they are using the same developers, engineering and support staff. For commercial applications this is much of everything that On Controls needed to become, and for mega residential installations, it will also be an excellent fit. The pricing structure may drive many DYI iRule users away unless you happen to have the budget. ( The basic control box - which is probably all you would ever need chimes in around $1K, and FYI, you can still use your GC iTach boxes.)

Alternatives:

1) Stick with iRule. You'll have years to prepare for something else. By then a better DIY system may come along. ( Maybe Kramer Controls "lite"? )
2) Keep in mind that all these home kits coming out from Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. will continue to mature and become more and more sophisticated in what they can go do. This may become your next "Ruler".
3) For the same reasons as stated above, take a closer look at "Simple Control". For most DIY applications this will be and is an excellent choice.

Lots of choices and time to before you need to worry about it.
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post #11372 of 11396 Old 10-04-2017, 07:37 PM
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^^^ Thanks for this info.

Which Kramer box would be required for a single room theatre control system ? What does the box actually do ?

Cheers,
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post #11373 of 11396 Old 10-05-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
As an On Controls Premier Dealer, I have already begun making the transition to Kramer Controls. I am in the process of finishing up a couple of On Controls projects before moving myself and clients to the new system. The Kramer system is very, very, very similar to iRule / On Controls with several new features and many improvements to the builder interface. After all, they are using the same developers, engineering and support staff. For commercial applications this is much of everything that On Controls needed to become, and for mega residential installations, it will also be an excellent fit. The pricing structure may drive many DYI iRule users away unless you happen to have the budget. ( The basic control box - which is probably all you would ever need chimes in around $1K, and FYI, you can still use your GC iTach boxes.)

Alternatives:

1) Stick with iRule. You'll have years to prepare for something else. By then a better DIY system may come along. ( Maybe Kramer Controls "lite"? )
2) Keep in mind that all these home kits coming out from Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. will continue to mature and become more and more sophisticated in what they can go do. This may become your next "Ruler".
3) For the same reasons as stated above, take a closer look at "Simple Control". For most DIY applications this will be and is an excellent choice.

Lots of choices and time to before you need to worry about it.

so to use itach boxes do you only need their boiler and software on a device? my problem is i have 10 itach's throughout my home. i have been with rule since beta so my whole home is built around it for control.

jim
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post #11374 of 11396 Old 10-05-2017, 04:39 PM
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so to use itach boxes do you only need their boiler and software on a device? my problem is i have 10 itach's throughout my home. i have been with rule since beta so my whole home is built around it for control.

jim
You need three things to move to Kramer Controls and be able to continue to use all those iTach's. And also an understanding that Kramer Controls is not ideally suited as a DIY platform.

1) A Kramer "brain" or processor. The base model will be sufficient and has a few I/O connections such as IR and RS232 for future use. The software no longer requires a license to work, but it is attached to the serial number of the "brain".

2) A Kramer account that would give you access to the builder. You will have to start over in terms of your remote design and programming. There is no restoring from an iRule/On Controls backup.

3) A Kramer Controls dealer to sell you the brain and setup the builder account.

If any of what I just listed sounds a bit ominous, then you should probably hold off until you have no other choice. There is still 4 to 5 years of life with iRule. It sounds to me that you are pretty comfortable with the iRule system in general, so your support needs are probably pretty low. At this point, you'll have until 2021 before things start to get dicey. Personally, I'm really relieved that there is a future for a really great set of tools to continue to proliferate and evolve.

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post #11375 of 11396 Old 10-05-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
^^^ Thanks for this info.

Which Kramer box would be required for a single room theatre control system ? What does the box actually do ?

Cheers,
The basic entry level "brain" or processor should do the trick. The model number is the SL-240C. ( No, it's not a Benz - lol ). The processor acts as a traffic cop so that devices such as an AVR that can only handle a single IP network control connection would be able to have more than one control device sending commands to it. It also has I/O connections for IR and serial devices. Kind of like a super iTach.
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post #11376 of 11396 Old 10-05-2017, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The basic entry level "brain" or processor should do the trick. The model number is the SL-240C. ( No, it's not a Benz - lol ). The processor acts as a traffic cop so that devices such as an AVR that can only handle a single IP network control connection would be able to have more than one control device sending commands to it. It also has I/O connections for IR and serial devices. Kind of like a super iTach.
It's just all wired. They really need wireless devices in 2017 for the home consumer.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #11377 of 11396 Old 10-05-2017, 08:30 PM
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It's just all wired. They really need wireless devices in 2017 for the home consumer.
I could go back and forth on that all day long. When push comes to shove I want the hard-wired solution. With the bandwidth requirements of 4K/HDR/WCG, we're having to run category wire to each display anyway. Might as well run another couple of wires while you are at it.

I stopped using the wireless versions of the iTach's when I found out they were 802.11b. I finally had an answer as to why the wireless network kept going down.
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post #11378 of 11396 Old 10-06-2017, 11:55 AM
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i agree i would never use a wireless version unless totally had to. luckily i wired the holy heck out of my house and i have drops everywhere possible for itach's or whatever. i have seen the wireless ones in action. they work but have seen them go down a lot and delay commands.
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post #11379 of 11396 Old 10-06-2017, 11:57 AM
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I just deployed an ap for them separately, I know not the slickest solution but works very well in practice.

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post #11380 of 11396 Old 10-15-2017, 08:01 PM
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I came to this forum to ask a question and instead got a soft blow to the kidney. Serious bummer iRule has announced end of life, even if in 2021.

For the here and now, I have used iRule for over a year now and have it working pretty well. Two days ago, I updated my iPad to iOS 11.03 (up from 11.02). Once complete, iRule worked normally. I used it like that for a day.

This evening, I went in to watch a movie and every time I tried to open iRule, it crashed. I shut down the iPad, turned it back on. Reinstalled the iRule app. Removed all other apps, then reinstalled iRule again. Each and every time I shut down the iPad and turned it back on. I finally resorted to a reset and iRule still does not work.

Any ideas?

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #11381 of 11396 Old 10-15-2017, 08:07 PM
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No idea ... sorry.

It seems iRule are still responding to emails so I suggest you contact tech support directly.

Cheers,
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post #11382 of 11396 Old 10-15-2017, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
I came to this forum to ask a question and instead got a soft blow to the kidney. Serious bummer iRule has announced end of life, even if in 2021.

For the here and now, I have used iRule for over a year now and have it working pretty well. Two days ago, I updated my iPad to iOS 11.03 (up from 11.02). Once complete, iRule worked normally. I used it like that for a day.

This evening, I went in to watch a movie and every time I tried to open iRule, it crashed. I shut down the iPad, turned it back on. Reinstalled the iRule app. Removed all other apps, then reinstalled iRule again. Each and every time I shut down the iPad and turned it back on. I finally resorted to a reset and iRule still does not work.

Any ideas?
Works on my iPad but just updated to 11.03 today! SJ
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post #11383 of 11396 Old 10-15-2017, 08:18 PM
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I have contacted iRule twice and both times, the response was quick. I will reach out tomorrow. Thanks, Peter.

SJHT, good luck. Let me know if yours breaks in a day or two as well. This is the first I've ever experienced the app crashing across two different iPads, iPhones and several iterations of iOS releases. I was quite surprised.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #11384 of 11396 Old 10-16-2017, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
I have contacted iRule twice and both times, the response was quick. I will reach out tomorrow. Thanks, Peter.

SJHT, good luck. Let me know if yours breaks in a day or two as well. This is the first I've ever experienced the app crashing across two different iPads, iPhones and several iterations of iOS releases. I was quite surprised.

did u do a reset network settings in the general settings in the ipad? I do that first when I have issues with apps. usually takes care of the issue.


jim
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post #11385 of 11396 Old 10-16-2017, 07:51 AM
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did u do a reset network settings in the general settings in the ipad? I do that first when I have issues with apps. usually takes care of the issue.


jim
I did a reset on the network settings. In fact, I even tried a different access point/network and the app continued to crash.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #11386 of 11396 Old 10-19-2017, 08:53 PM
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I did a reset on the network settings. In fact, I even tried a different access point/network and the app continued to crash.
I would try creating a new very basic Handset in the builder. Uninstall the app, reinstall the app and sync the new handset. Your current build could have a bug in it. See if that works first.
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post #11387 of 11396 Old 10-19-2017, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aareses View Post
I have contacted iRule twice and both times, the response was quick. I will reach out tomorrow. Thanks, Peter.

SJHT, good luck. Let me know if yours breaks in a day or two as well. This is the first I've ever experienced the app crashing across two different iPads, iPhones and several iterations of iOS releases. I was quite surprised.
I would try creating a new very basic Handset in the builder. Uninstall the app, reinstall the app and sync the new handset. Your current build could have a bug in it. See if that works first.
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post #11388 of 11396 Old 10-19-2017, 09:47 PM
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I would try creating a new very basic Handset in the builder. Uninstall the app, reinstall the app and sync the new handset. Your current build could have a bug in it. See if that works first.
I contacted iRule support a few days ago and I believe they are looking into it. Hoping they have a resolution of some sort. If they don't have a resolution, yours is a good suggestion to try.

Evolution of My Theater Build

Speakers: Procella P8 (LCR), P6V (2 Front Side), P5 (2 Rear Side, 2 Rear, 4 Ceiling). Subs: Deep Sea Sound Custom 18" Mariana (4). Amps: Crown DCi 8|300 (2), SpeakerPower SP2-12000-HT. Processors: Yamaha CX-A5100, Xilica XP-8080 (2). Video: JVC RS400, 2.37 Seymour AV 120" Enlightor 4K Screen, Kaleidescape Strato, Philips BDP7501. Control: iRule.
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post #11389 of 11396 Old 10-22-2017, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoftumble View Post
The basic entry level "brain" or processor should do the trick. The model number is the SL-240C. ( No, it's not a Benz - lol ). The processor acts as a traffic cop so that devices such as an AVR that can only handle a single IP network control connection would be able to have more than one control device sending commands to it. It also has I/O connections for IR and serial devices. Kind of like a super iTach.
Any idea on pricing? Google tells me the SL-240 is $720, perhaps this new "compact" model will be a bit cheaper. One thing you get for that high price is that Kramer warranties them for 7 years, far longer than most such warranties. Since your 'license' is essentially that piece of hardware, that's good to see.

Is there some documentation online anywhere that tells a bit about how the system works? Can an end user even get this information, or does Kramer only talk to dealers, and I'd have to find a really helpful dealer to get this? I'm particularly interested in what you say about it acting like a "traffic cop" for devices that allow only one IP connection. Does that all the IP commands from your handset go to this 'brain' and it then forwards them to the various devices?

The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of GC100s, and those suffer from the one connection limit as well. That hasn't been a big issue, the real problem is that they are a bit buggy. You can send a valid sendIR command to them 100 times, and it might give the 'ok' or whatever that it received the command and send the IR successfully, and one time it will give an error that the command was corrupted. The longer the IR command (i.e. if you try to concatenate several IR sequences into a single longer sequence) the greater the chance this will happen.

The big downfall of iRule with the GC100 is that it just sends the IR command to the GC100, it doesn't actually look at the GC100's response. If Kramer's 'traffic cop' actually does that, and can be told to automatically retry a command that fails, that would get me from 98-99% reliability to 100% reliability, and be worth the investment. But I don't know how I can find out if it does this, or if they would be responsive to a customer who suggested it. By the time I figured out the bug earlier this year (which even Global Cache's engineers were unaware of) iRule had already ceased development.

I figure either I need to work around this GC100 bug, or replace all 7 of my GC100s with something else without the bug. That would be well over $1000 worth of iTachs, so Kramer may be the cheaper way to go. Global Cache announced some new modular devices back in June that were supposed to be shipping in August, but there is still nothing on their web site so I guess they missed that date. No clue what they would cost, unless they had some sort of trade in for GC100s I doubt it would come out any cheaper then a pile of iTachs.

I may see about getting a SL-240C and trying it out, assuming I can get at least a 30 day money back guarantee from the seller.
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post #11390 of 11396 Old 10-22-2017, 03:47 PM
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If I was a residential oncontrols dealer I would be pretty worried about moving to Kramer given their pretty obvious focus on commercial spaces. I wonder how good of a job they will do keeping up with consumer devices codes/drivers over time.
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post #11391 of 11396 Old Yesterday, 05:33 AM
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Does anyone have a Sirius/XM button for The Beatles? I tried a search and nothing came up.

Many thanks!
jc
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post #11392 of 11396 Old Yesterday, 07:13 AM
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Does anyone have a Sirius/XM button for The Beatles? I tried a search and nothing came up.

Many thanks!
jc
One of us could probably make one if we don't have one already. What theme/button size do you need?
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post #11393 of 11396 Old Yesterday, 07:23 AM
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One of us could probably make one if we don't have one already. What theme/button size do you need?
Hi Dalto,

They are the 40x300 buttons that are in the Community Image Library.

Thanks!
jc
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post #11394 of 11396 Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
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Hi Dalto,

They are the 40x300 buttons that are in the Community Image Library.

Thanks!
jc
I should have added that the buttons are part of Sirius/SM Buttons and Links in the Community Image Library.

Thanks again,
jc
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post #11395 of 11396 Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM
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I should have added that the buttons are part of Sirius/SM Buttons and Links in the Community Image Library.

Thanks again,
jc
I see them now. Without a blank button to work from creating a new one that matched would be beyond my abilities.
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post #11396 of 11396 Old Yesterday, 07:49 PM
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