New Logitech Harmony Touch - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 525 Old 02-09-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

I do like the longer 10 step macros.
If the Touch can support 10 step macros, could the older Harmonys support 10 steps with a firmware update?
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post #272 of 525 Old 02-10-2013, 05:17 AM
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^^^^
Pure speculation but I am sure that it would be possible via a software configuration change, but I do not expect that this will ever be done. There was extreme flack over many years about not having sequences on their two top-end remotes and nothing was changed.
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post #273 of 525 Old 02-10-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

I thought the newer Harmony remotes didn't even support sequences/macros i.e. that stopped with the One etc.

I believe that the 900 doesn't do sequences but the 700, that I bought to replace my 885, does. The Touch has 10 step sequences as against the 5 of the One and 700. But last time I checked the Touch software, you couldn't add numbers to a sequence, which beggars belief.
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post #274 of 525 Old 02-10-2013, 09:56 AM
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The sequence situation is very complicated.

- 200, 300, 900, 1100 have no sequences at all
- 600, 650 and 700 have no sequences if you use myharmony.com, but have 5 step sequences if you use the old 7.7 software
- the Touch has 10 step sequences using myharmony.com, making it the first harmony in years to support sequences using the current myharmony.com config website.

So logitech is incapable of making a fully functional remote. Want, RF, ok then you get no sequences. Want 8 devices on a 700, then no sequences. Want 10 step sequences, fine, then give up numbers, skip buttons and RF. No wonder they failed in the marketplace. Hopefully the new owner will have enough sense to remove these arbitrary limitations.
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post #275 of 525 Old 02-10-2013, 08:57 PM
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Jesus no wonder they're going bankrupt, they always did weird/infuriating stuff like that over the yrs*, the market eventually got way more competitive, & it seems they weren't quick enough to adapt.
Anyone have any more details about the bankruptcy, I've been meaning to read-up more on that soon-ish...

*no only with regards to remotes
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post #276 of 525 Old 02-10-2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

- 600, 650 and 700 have no sequences if you use myharmony.com, but have 5 step sequences if you use the old 7.7 software
- the Touch has 10 step sequences using myharmony.com, making it the first harmony in years to support sequences using the current myharmony.com config website.

So logitech is incapable of making a fully functional remote. Want, RF, ok then you get no sequences. Want 8 devices on a 700, then no sequences. Want 10 step sequences, fine, then give up numbers, skip buttons and RF. No wonder they failed in the marketplace. Hopefully the new owner will have enough sense to remove these arbitrary limitations.

Where does the H1 sit here, same as 600/650/700?
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post #277 of 525 Old 02-11-2013, 05:31 AM
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^^^
Yes, same as 600/650/700.
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post #278 of 525 Old 02-11-2013, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Jesus no wonder they're going bankrupt, they always did weird/infuriating stuff like that over the yrs*, the market eventually got way more competitive, & it seem they weren't quick enough to adapt.
Anyone have any more details about the bankruptcy, I've been meaning to read-up more on that soon-ish...

*no only with regards to remotes
I don't think there has been any suggestion of going bankrupt, just that the Harmony division will be put up for sale.
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post #279 of 525 Old 02-11-2013, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

The sequence situation is very complicated.

- 200, 300, 900, 1100 have no sequences at all
- 600, 650 and 700 have no sequences if you use myharmony.com, but have 5 step sequences if you use the old 7.7 software
- the Touch has 10 step sequences using myharmony.com, making it the first harmony in years to support sequences using the current myharmony.com config website.

So logitech is incapable of making a fully functional remote. Want, RF, ok then you get no sequences. Want 8 devices on a 700, then no sequences. Want 10 step sequences, fine, then give up numbers, skip buttons and RF. No wonder they failed in the marketplace. Hopefully the new owner will have enough sense to remove these arbitrary limitations.

Pretty sad that their most capable remote was the Harmony 890. RF, 5 step sequences, Z-wave, 4 addressable 3.5mm IR ports, and 15 device limit.

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post #280 of 525 Old 02-17-2013, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BPlayer View Post

I don't think there has been any suggestion of going bankrupt, just that the Harmony division will be put up for sale.

Oh, coulda worn I read somewhere they were facing bankruptcy Logitech-wide. O.o
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post #281 of 525 Old 02-17-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

Pretty sad that their most capable remote was the Harmony 890. RF, 5 step sequences, Z-wave, 4 addressable 3.5mm IR ports, and 15 device limit.

Yikes, sounds way better than the H1, what advantages does the H1 have over it & vice-versa?
Might be time to ditch my H1 & find one of those ancient beasts!
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post #282 of 525 Old 02-18-2013, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

Yikes, sounds way better than the H1, what advantages does the H1 have over it & vice-versa?
Might be time to ditch my H1 & find one of those ancient beasts!

Good question. The screen is prettier on the H1. Other than that I'm out of answers.

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post #283 of 525 Old 02-18-2013, 06:59 AM
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Jalyst, although the 890 was the pinnacle of harmony remotes, I don't think the One and 890 were ever meant to have the same capabilities. The 890 was replaced by the 900 (yuck). Unless you need RF, Logitech wants you to replace your One with a Touch.

Although they had a bad quarter, Logitech is nowhere near bankruptcy, so I'm not sure where that rumor came from (maybe only from you). They only had $30 million in remote sales last quarter, which was lower than the previous quarter, hence their move to drop the entire product line. Seems short sighted to me. A little leadership by someone who's actually used a remote could could easily turn things around IMO (don't cripple current models, fix the software, and fix the Link so it can compete with iRule). But then again, it's probably for the best. Universal remotes always seemed an odd fit for a keyboard and mouse company anyway.

I think the QWERTY would have been a bigger hit than the Touch. There seems to be significant demand for a remote with easy text entry for Smart TV's, etc., plus some mouse functionality. I don't see anything compelling about an overpriced remote with a bigger touchscreen.
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post #284 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Jalyst, although the 890 was the pinnacle of harmony remotes, I don't think the One and 890 were ever meant to have the same capabilities. The 890 was replaced by the 900 (yuck). Unless you need RF, Logitech wants you to replace your One with a Touch.

Although they had a bad quarter, Logitech is nowhere near bankruptcy, so I'm not sure where that rumor came from (maybe only from you). They only had $30 million in remote sales last quarter, which was lower than the previous quarter, hence their move to drop the entire product line. Seems short sighted to me. A little leadership by someone who's actually used a remote could could easily turn things around IMO (don't cripple current models, fix the software, and fix the Link so it can compete with iRule). But then again, it's probably for the best. Universal remotes always seemed an odd fit for a keyboard and mouse company anyway.

I think the QWERTY would have been a bigger hit than the Touch. There seems to be significant demand for a remote with easy text entry for Smart TV's, etc., plus some mouse functionality. I don't see anything compelling about an overpriced remote with a bigger touchscreen.
+1

Its funny though, a keyboard company couldn't make a remote with a keyboard on it.
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post #285 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 08:14 AM
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I don't know. After my latest Logitech mouse, I kinda wonder if their quality is going downhill in general . . . rolleyes.gif
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post #286 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post

+1

Its funny though, a keyboard company couldn't make a remote with a keyboard on it.
Actually they did make it. They just never released it. There are a few demo models from shows floating around out there.
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post #287 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Actually they did make it. They just never released it. There are a few demo models from shows floating around out there.
Ah, I did not know that. Got any pictures of it? I wonder why they didn't release it? I'm sure it was better than the Touch.
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post #288 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

The sequence situation is very complicated.

- 200, 300, 900, 1100 have no sequences at all
- 600, 650 and 700 have no sequences if you use myharmony.com, but have 5 step sequences if you use the old 7.7 software
- the Touch has 10 step sequences using myharmony.com, making it the first harmony in years to support sequences using the current myharmony.com config website.

So logitech is incapable of making a fully functional remote. Want, RF, ok then you get no sequences. Want 8 devices on a 700, then no sequences. Want 10 step sequences, fine, then give up numbers, skip buttons and RF. No wonder they failed in the marketplace. Hopefully the new owner will have enough sense to remove these arbitrary limitations.

I have 8 devices on my Logitech 650. I posted my instructions on how to do it in a comment to this blog:

http://howto.cnet.com/8618-11310_39-57567913.html?assetTypeId=12&messageId=13669236

The article is a cnet article about how to add more devices by piggybacking their commands onto existing devices. My solution is different. I have an old Harmony 360 which doesn't have the 650's 5-device limitation (but which has some non-functional buttons preventing me from using it), so what I do is program that one... and then transfer the programming to the 650. All devices transfer over, with full functionality.

Currently with my 650, for devices I have:

Sony receiver
Sony Blu-ray player
Toshiba HD DVD player (not used much anymore for obvious reasons)
Apple TV
WD TV Live Streaming (I don't even have this yet)
Scientific Atlanta PVR
LG plasma TV
HTPC

Programming is done with the 7.8.1 software... which reminds me. I'd better store a copy of that, in case Logitech in its infinite marketing wisdom decides to kill off this software (and the sequences) completely for the 650.
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post #289 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 07:43 PM
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Thanks for posting. We've been aware of that loophole for a few years now (I have 12 devices on my 650). But it's a huge PITA and requires a second, older harmony remote account. Any time you do a "replace" remote from one remote to another, you lose a ton of work (all button customizations, etc.). And if you ever need to replace or add another device, you have to start over on your old account and do the replace procedure again. So while this technically works, it's impractical when your system changes and won't work at all for people who don't happen to already have an older harmony.
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post #290 of 525 Old 02-19-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Thanks for posting. We've been aware of that loophole for a few years now (I have 12 devices on my 650). But it's a huge PITA and requires a second, older harmony remote account. Any time you do a "replace" remote from one remote to another, you lose a ton of work (all button customizations, etc.). And if you ever need to replace or add another device, you have to start over on your old account and do the replace procedure again. So while this technically works, it's impractical when your system changes and won't work at all for people who don't happen to already have an older harmony.
Yeah, what I don't understand is why that loophole has been there for years. If they really wanted a 5-device limit, they'd get rid of it, but they don't. Perhaps it's an acknowledgement that 5 devices is quite inadequate for lots of consumer setups. Or else they're just lazy.

Anyways to minimize reprogramming, I often add in as many devices as possible including ones I think I might need but probably won't even use. For example, I decided to add-in the Apple TV, but also added in the WD TV Live Streaming unit at the same time, because I wasn't sure which of the two I was going to use in this spot. Luckily button customizations haven't been a huge issue for me. I think it'd be more of a problem if I had 12 devices, all in use actively.

If they'd just sell a hypothetical non-rechargeable 750 for $20 more with the same physical buttons but say a 12-device limit, and left the sequences intact, we wouldn't have to deal with all this mess. Cuz I'm sure as hell never buying a 1100, and I won't be buying a Touch either for various reasons, not the least of which are the crazy high price and the weird layout with too many missing physical buttons.
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post #291 of 525 Old 02-20-2013, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post

Ah, I did not know that. Got any pictures of it? I wonder why they didn't release it? I'm sure it was better than the Touch.

There was a thread on here about it

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1398964/logitech-harmony-800-qwerty/0_40
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post #292 of 525 Old 02-20-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

There was a thread on here about it

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1398964/logitech-harmony-800-qwerty/0_40
Thats a sweet looking remote, looks better than the Touch, too bad they didn't release it.
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post #293 of 525 Old 02-21-2013, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post

Thats a sweet looking remote, looks better than the Touch, too bad they didn't release it.

Even if they did release it I'm sure they would have screwed it up somehow.

Didn't the keyboard interface with the RF unified USB dongle instead of IR? Plus if the remote was released without RF then it would have been a non-starter for many people.

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post #294 of 525 Old 02-21-2013, 03:22 PM
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I tried to setup a sequence with my touch and no luck.

I want to change to an AV input on my RX-A1000 but then turn on Multi Channel Audio input.

It won't let me select a 2nd input in the sequence, only gives me every other option except selecting an input.
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post #295 of 525 Old 02-21-2013, 11:39 PM
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A good workaround would be to dedicate a scene button to this configuration and then just program the harmony to hit that button under extra commands. The scene functionality on the Yamaha aventage receivers can be very useful.
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post #296 of 525 Old 02-25-2013, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Jalyst, although the 890 was the pinnacle of harmony remotes, I don't think the One and 890 were ever meant to have the same capabilities. The 890 was replaced by the 900 (yuck). Unless you need RF, Logitech wants you to replace your One with a Touch.
Although they had a bad quarter, Logitech is nowhere near bankruptcy, so I'm not sure where that rumor came from (maybe only from you). They only had $30 million in remote sales last quarter, which was lower than the previous quarter, hence their move to drop the entire product line. Seems short sighted to me. A little leadership by someone who's actually used a remote could could easily turn things around IMO (don't cripple current models, fix the software, and fix the Link so it can compete with iRule). But then again, it's probably for the best. Universal remotes always seemed an odd fit for a keyboard and mouse company anyway.
I think the QWERTY would have been a bigger hit than the Touch. There seems to be significant demand for a remote with easy text entry for Smart TV's, etc., plus some mouse functionality. I don't see anything compelling about an overpriced remote with a bigger touchscreen.

So the 900 was a huge regression over the 890?
Can all/some of the limitations be worked around such that it has all/most of the strengths of the H1 + more? I read about all this once upon a time, but my memory's failing hard.*
Yeah I must've has misinterpreted something someone said about Logitech's financial situation....
I agree that it's massive missed opportunity to finally do it right, but maybe it's for the best that it's sold to someone who actually cares about remotes, & doing them right etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Thanks for posting. We've been aware of that loophole for a few years now (I have 12 devices on my 650). But it's a huge PITA and requires a second, older harmony remote account. Any time you do a "replace" remote from one remote to another, you lose a ton of work (all button customizations, etc.). And if you ever need to replace or add another device, you have to start over on your old account and do the replace procedure again. So while this technically works, it's impractical when your system changes and won't work at all for people who don't happen to already have an older harmony.

Is this sort of thing do-able for the H1 too? I appreciate the PIA limitations you're explaining, but it'd still be nice to get around device count limitations...

*IIRC some of the main reasons I overlooked the 900 was that:
1) RF isn't as universal as IR -even still- in many homes, + getting IR blasters for all over the premises is somewhat of a PIA
2) There was some horrid sw limitations compared to the H1
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post #297 of 525 Old 02-25-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jalyst View Post

So the 900 was a huge regression over the 890?
All the differences were posted earlier. If none of them impact you, then it may not be a huge regression.
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Can all/some of the limitations be worked around such that it has all/most of the strengths of the H1 + more?
Not really. Sequences, possibly, in a small way (3 steps or so in a single raw learn).
Quote:
Is this sort of thing do-able for the H1 too? I appreciate the PIA limitations you're explaining, but it'd still be nice to get around device count limitations...
Device count isn't one of the limitations. Both the One and 900 are 15 device. Device limits come into play on the lower end models from the 700 down.
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*IIRC some of the main reasons I overlooked the 900 was that:
1) RF isn't as universal as IR -even still- in many homes, + getting IR blasters for all over the premises is somewhat of a PIA
2) There was some horrid sw limitations compared to the H1
RF is an enhancement, not a limitation. You lose nothing by getting an RF remote. The IR part still works fine. You only truly need blasters where your remote can't reach by line of sight (although it's preferred to use them to eliminate the need to aim). So you don't need blasters all over the place. The only software limitation I know of is the removal of sequences. If you don't use them (most people don't), then it's not a limitation for you. My point was just to show how logitech remote regress with each new model rather than progress, hence contributing to their downfall IMO.

I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of RF. The ultimate output of an RF system is still IR. RF universal remotes (with one small exception) can't communicate with any RF devices besides their own RF base. So you don't get an RF remote to control RF devices. You get an RF remote to extend IR and eliminate the need to aim, essentially.
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post #298 of 525 Old 02-26-2013, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

All the differences were posted earlier. If none of them impact you, then it may not be a huge regression.

Okaaayyy... O_o biggrin.gif
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RF is an enhancement, not a limitation. You lose nothing by getting an RF remote. The IR part still works fine.
I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of RF. The ultimate output of an RF system is still IR. RF universal remotes (with one small exception) can't communicate with any RF devices besides their own RF base. So you don't get an RF remote to control RF devices. You get an RF remote to extend IR and eliminate the need to aim, essentially.

Ah yes of course! I had totally forgotten that such devices (usually) include a RF base-station, which is essentially a RF->IR bridge... *face-palm*
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The only software limitation I know of is the removal of sequences. If you don't use them (most people don't), then it's not a limitation for you.

Ah yes, that was one of the factors in my assessments at the time IIRC....
Actually it turns out I bought a 785, I coulda swore I bought a H1, but maybe I bought a 785 because it was going for extra cheap & didn't have many deficits overall compared to the H1.
I think I'd come to the conclusion that none of the Logitech remotes were particularly optimal, so I opted for something lots cheaper than the H1 (then), & would upgrade to a more serious URC later.

Anyway it's FINALLY about to come out of it's packaging, almost 2yrs & 10mth (3 days shy) after purchase! Good thing this whole field moves like treacle wink.gif
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post #299 of 525 Old 02-26-2013, 07:18 PM
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Newbie to Harmony Remotes...advice please

Pioneer 1222 AVR
Samsung LCD 55" TV
PS3

I need a nice Harmony remote that i can do it all with, and has nice WAF for the wife..

thanks
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post #300 of 525 Old 02-27-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jlm86 View Post

Newbie to Harmony Remotes...advice please

Pioneer 1222 AVR
Samsung LCD 55" TV
PS3

I need a nice Harmony remote that i can do it all with, and has nice WAF for the wife..

thanks
The Touch is overkill for you and has some drawbacks. Look at the 650 plus possibly the PS3 adapter, or a simple Nyko bluwave depending on your requirements. The Nyko does everything the logitech PS3 adapter can except on/off. I didn't use any adapter for my PS3, and controlled it entirely by HDMI-CEC (bravia sync, anynet, etc.).
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