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post #1 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Considering a Hamony Remote

Hey everyone! I am considering one of the Harmony remotes, probably the Elite, which I believe is their top of the line. But I have some questions and maybe need a little convincing before I take the plunge for the kind of monetary investment the remote represents.

Here are my questions:

Logitech Harmony Questions:


-Which Remote is best and why? As I said, I am leaning toward the Elite since it works with Alexa and I am not a big fan of using my cell or a tablet, nor am I that interested in the Companion. (at least I fon't think I am).


-Does this work with Smart Home functions like Lighting, etc.? Dimming and color changes on lights that have it with smart phone?


-RF versus line of sight? How is this accomplished? I assume it has something to do with WiFi, IR Blasters and with Smart Switches, but I am not clear on this.


-What are the IR Blasters for? (if not for RF/WiFi remote versus LOS)


-What are the hubs for? (are they the RF devices, as opposed to line of sight?)

What are the Smart Switches and how are they different from devices like Amazon Echo DOT?

I have two rooms, both with 7 and 8 remotes. Can I program one page for each room, so there is no overlap?

-What do I do about two TV's, bedroom and Living room both having the same remote control, both being Sony's? I don't want to turn on/off two TV's simultaneously while in the other room. The same for both my cable boxes with same remote, as well as two XBox One S's and two PS4 Pro's.


-How is the Harmony Remote for Smart Home use, in terms of lights (LiFX, Phillips Hue, and Smart plugs)?

-I have almost 15 devices (remotes) and will have probably more than 15 once I create a Smart home. Will there be any firmware updates for more devices than 15? I am not sure now, but I have the feeling I may soon need to control more than 15 devices. I am not sure if this would be a deal breaker or not as there may be some workaround?




Thanks everyone!
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post #2 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
Hey everyone! I am considering one of the Harmony remotes, probably the Elite, which I believe is their top of the line. But I have some questions and maybe need a little convincing before I take the plunge for the kind of monetary investment the remote represents.

Here are my questions:

Logitech Harmony Questions:


-Which Remote is best and why? As I said, I am leaning toward the Elite since it works with Alexa and I am not a big fan of using my cell or a tablet, nor am I that interested in the Companion. (at least I fon't think I am).
Yes the Elite is the best, but do you need it. It's works with Alexa, but so do the cheaper versions. You do not have to use your cell phone unless you only get the hub. You do have to use your phone or table to set it up. The companion app just give you access to every function the device supports which may not map to a button on the physical remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
-Does this work with Smart Home functions like Lighting, etc.? Dimming and color changes on lights that have it with smart phone?
Yes, there are dedicated buttons on the Elite and Home Companion version for controlling lighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
-RF versus line of sight? How is this accomplished? I assume it has something to do with WiFi, IR Blasters and with Smart Switches, but I am not clear on this.

-What are the IR Blasters for? (if not for RF/WiFi remote versus LOS)

-What are the hubs for? (are they the RF devices, as opposed to line of sight?)

-What are the Smart Switches and how are they different from devices like Amazon Echo DOT?
Any remote with a hub is RF to the hub. The hub blasts IR into the room to control equipment with IR, or the IR blasters are placed near components to control them if they are obscured. The hubs also have bluetooth and wifi, so they can talk to wifi controlled devices or directly via bluetooth. For example, a Roku that doesn't have IR is controlled via bluetooth from the hub or a nexus player can be controlled via wifi.

A smart switch is an outlet or light switch that can be controlled via an app. The Echo dot would control the smart switch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
I have two rooms, both with 7 and 8 remotes. Can I program one page for each room, so there is no overlap?

-What do I do about two TV's, bedroom and Living room both having the same remote control, both being Sony's? I don't want to turn on/off two TV's simultaneously while in the other room. The same for both my cable boxes with same remote, as well as two XBox One S's and two PS4 Pro's.


-How is the Harmony Remote for Smart Home use, in terms of lights (LiFX, Phillips Hue, and Smart plugs)?

-I have almost 15 devices (remotes) and will have probably more than 15 once I create a Smart home. Will there be any firmware updates for more devices than 15? I am not sure now, but I have the feeling I may soon need to control more than 15 devices. I am not sure if this would be a deal breaker or not as there may be some workaround?


Thanks everyone!
You will need to get two remote, one for the living room, and one for the bedroom. I have three, an Elite for my theater, the home companion for the living room, and 650 for the bedroom. The hub is nice that it doesn't matter where you point the remote, it just works. You can get a hub version without the dedicated home control buttons a lot cheaper that the ones that do, or forgo the hub and just get a 650.

The Harmony works great with lighting, but you only get 4 dedicated buttons for them. Up to you if you need them.

Don't bank on them updating the firmware and adding devices. I've been using them for 15 years and never had them increase the amount of devices.

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post #3 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
Yes the Elite is the best, but do you need it. It's works with Alexa, but so do the cheaper versions. You do not have to use your cell phone unless you only get the hub. You do have to use your phone or table to set it up. The companion app just give you access to every function the device supports which may not map to a button on the physical remote.



Yes, there are dedicated buttons on the Elite and Home Companion version for controlling lighting.



Any remote with a hub is RF to the hub. The hub blasts IR into the room to control equipment with IR, or the IR blasters are placed near components to control them if they are obscured. The hubs also have bluetooth and wifi, so they can talk to wifi controlled devices or directly via bluetooth. For example, a Roku that doesn't have IR is controlled via bluetooth from the hub or a nexus player can be controlled via wifi.

A smart switch is an outlet or light switch that can be controlled via an app. The Echo dot would control the smart switch.




You will need to get two remote, one for the living room, and one for the bedroom. I have three, an Elite for my theater, the home companion for the living room, and 650 for the bedroom. The hub is nice that it doesn't matter where you point the remote, it just works. You can get a hub version without the dedicated home control buttons a lot cheaper that the ones that do, or forgo the hub and just get a 650.

The Harmony works great with lighting, but you only get 4 dedicated buttons for them. Up to you if you need them.

Don't bank on them updating the firmware and adding devices. I've been using them for 15 years and never had them increase the amount of devices.

Thanks for the answers, siuengr!

Okay, I actually called Logitech tech support to ask them some of these questions, before I read your post.

While I won't count on it any time soon, the tech told me that they recently increased the number of devices that can be paired to one of their older remote controls from 8 to 10 (not sure if paired is the right word) and that they will likely do so for the Elite as well. Again, I won't hold my breath or buy this in anticipation of that happening, but I thought I would post it anyway.

He also told me that I don't need a second remote for the living room and bedroom, particularly since all my devices are congregated in entertainment centers very close to one another in each respective room. He mentioned using IR blasters to create what he called "Activities." I am still not clear on what he means by this, as it seems a little nebulous to me, but I will research this further before I buy anything!

I asked him if I could simply buy a second hub, one for the bedroom and one for the living room, and use the same Harmony Elite remote, and he said that not only would this work, but it would actually be my ideal situation, and would be like having two remotes without actually needing a second. I guess because the Hub plus a cell phone or tablet is, basically, a second remote. He also allayed another concern of mine with a two Hub setup, which is that I don't want to turn on/off the cable box, PS4 Pro, or XBox One S in the other room, while operating the one in the room I am in at that moment.

The way he explained it to me is that the remote can only sync with one Hub at a time. He sounded almost apologetic about that when he mentioned it, until I explained that this works better for me since I have a duplicate of many devices in two separate room, and if I connect to one Hub, I would not want the remote to be communicating with the other Hub I don't want to be connected to or devices connected to that inactive Hub.

I am a little confused by the IR Blasters. He said that each Hub has 3 IR Blasters built in (or maybe it was one blaster for 3 devices? I forget). It seems to me, if I am understanding this correctly, that if the devices are all in close proximity to one another, I can place the Hub centrally located, very close to all of them (say in the Living room, in the entertainment center, I can have that Hub synced to the Living Room TV, PS4, Receiver, XBone, Cable Box and my AC). Where I am a little confused is that I believe each IR Blaster (which I can buy off Amazon, separate from a Hub) can control 5 devices. So it is not clear to me if the Hub has 3 IR blasters built in (5 devices each) OR has one blaster that can only control 3 devices.

Suffice it to say, assuming I need a blaster in addition to the Hub, I think that one IR Blaster can control all the devices I listed above, say in the living room, except the AC, since that is located on the other side of the room (9 feet away) and would presumably need its own blaster and it is also a 6th device anyway.

Then I could put a Hub in the bedroom to control the bedroom TV, PS4 Pro, XBone, Cable Box, PC Moniter, and Sound System, and any other devices, though the ones listed there are 6 devices, so I may need another IR Blaster, which is fine, since they are very cheap on Amazon.

Then we talked about the lighting, which he explained to me that even with many lights, all with different ways of controlling them (Activities also?) that the collective lights in my apartment, even with multiple smart switches and/or smart sockets, would be seen by the Harmony as ONE device of the 15 I am limited to. Not sure this makes sense to me, but it would definitely prevent me from going over the 15 device limit if that is the case.

I previously assumed that if I have, say 5 Smart Sockets and 15 light fixtures (for example, Phillips Hue, or LiFX) that each fixture and each smart switch and smart socket would be one of 15 devices. It is easy to see how just with lighting alone, if that is the case, I will run into my limit very fast lol.

He then explained to me, though again I am not sure I understand this, that I would NOT need the Echo Dots I was planning on purchasing (two for my apartment in total) if I have the Harmony Elite, hub (one or two) plus the Smart Switches, which can be purchased bundled with the Elite off Amazon.

Big selling point for me: he also explained that literally ALL of these devices, lights, sound, video, consoles, etc., would NOT need line of sight if I have the blasters and hubs.


Edit: Something just occurred to me. All of these Smart lights (Phillips Hue, LiFX, etc) are all compatible with Alexa and voice commands. Which begs the question, what do I need to worry about having them controlled by the Elite if I end up buying an Echo Dot or two?

Last edited by ChiroVette; 10-03-2017 at 02:49 PM.
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post #4 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
Thanks for the answers, siuengr!

Okay, I actually called Logitech tech support to ask them some of these questions, before I read your post.

While I won't count on it any time soon, the tech told me that they recently increased the number of devices that can be paired to one of their older remote controls from 8 to 10 (not sure if paired is the right word) and that they will likely do so for the Elite as well. Again, I won't hold my breath or buy this in anticipation of that happening, but I thought I would post it anyway.

He also told me that I don't need a second remote for the living room and bedroom, particularly since all my devices are congregated in entertainment centers very close to one another in each respective room. He mentioned using IR blasters to create what he called "Activities." I am still not clear on what he means by this, as it seems a little nebulous to me, but I will research this further before I buy anything!
I didn't say it wouldn't work. I just think it would be way to difficult to set up and more trouble than its worth, unless you are sharing components between rooms. The way Harmon activities generally work is it will shut off any components not in use, and you can't have two activities going at the same time. So, if you want to play the xbox in the living room and watch cable in the bedroom, the remote could only control one or the other, even if you use the app. You can go in the app and control each device individually, but again, that will be a pain to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
I asked him if I could simply buy a second hub, one for the bedroom and one for the living room, and use the same Harmony Elite remote, and he said that not only would this work, but it would actually be my ideal situation, and would be like having two remotes without actually needing a second. I guess because the Hub plus a cell phone or tablet is, basically, a second remote. He also allayed another concern of mine with a two Hub setup, which is that I don't want to turn on/off the cable box, PS4 Pro, or XBox One S in the other room, while operating the one in the room I am in at that moment.

The way he explained it to me is that the remote can only sync with one Hub at a time. He sounded almost apologetic about that when he mentioned it, until I explained that this works better for me since I have a duplicate of many devices in two separate room, and if I connect to one Hub, I would not want the remote to be communicating with the other Hub I don't want to be connected to or devices connected to that inactive Hub.

I am a little confused by the IR Blasters. He said that each Hub has 3 IR Blasters built in (or maybe it was one blaster for 3 devices? I forget). It seems to me, if I am understanding this correctly, that if the devices are all in close proximity to one another, I can place the Hub centrally located, very close to all of them (say in the Living room, in the entertainment center, I can have that Hub synced to the Living Room TV, PS4, Receiver, XBone, Cable Box and my AC). Where I am a little confused is that I believe each IR Blaster (which I can buy off Amazon, separate from a Hub) can control 5 devices. So it is not clear to me if the Hub has 3 IR blasters built in (5 devices each) OR has one blaster that can only control 3 devices.

Suffice it to say, assuming I need a blaster in addition to the Hub, I think that one IR Blaster can control all the devices I listed above, say in the living room, except the AC, since that is located on the other side of the room (9 feet away) and would presumably need its own blaster and it is also a 6th device anyway.

Then I could put a Hub in the bedroom to control the bedroom TV, PS4 Pro, XBone, Cable Box, PC Moniter, and Sound System, and any other devices, though the ones listed there are 6 devices, so I may need another IR Blaster, which is fine, since they are very cheap on Amazon.
The hub comes with IR blasters, so you don't need to get them from Amazon, and you may not need them. The blasters are only there to reach components that are hidden from the reach or the hub. There is no limit to the number of deivices the the hub or blaster can reach. Basically the hub blasts IR light, which bounces all over the room and can control most devices. If they are in a cabinet or hidden you run a IR blaster inside the cabinet and it acts like an extension of the hub. There could be 20 devices in the cabinet, it doesn't care.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiroVette View Post
Then we talked about the lighting, which he explained to me that even with many lights, all with different ways of controlling them (Activities also?) that the collective lights in my apartment, even with multiple smart switches and/or smart sockets, would be seen by the Harmony as ONE device of the 15 I am limited to. Not sure this makes sense to me, but it would definitely prevent me from going over the 15 device limit if that is the case.

I previously assumed that if I have, say 5 Smart Sockets and 15 light fixtures (for example, Phillips Hue, or LiFX) that each fixture and each smart switch and smart socket would be one of 15 devices. It is easy to see how just with lighting alone, if that is the case, I will run into my limit very fast lol.

He then explained to me, though again I am not sure I understand this, that I would NOT need the Echo Dots I was planning on purchasing (two for my apartment in total) if I have the Harmony Elite, hub (one or two) plus the Smart Switches, which can be purchased bundled with the Elite off Amazon.

Big selling point for me: he also explained that literally ALL of these devices, lights, sound, video, consoles, etc., would NOT need line of sight if I have the blasters and hubs.


Edit: Something just occurred to me. All of these Smart lights (Phillips Hue, LiFX, etc) are all compatible with Alexa and voice commands. Which begs the question, what do I need to worry about having them controlled by the Elite if I end up buying an Echo Dot or two?
You got it correct, you can control may more light and they don't count as devices. Yes you can control the lights with Alexa, that why I mentioned you can get two cheaper Harmony remote that control 10 devices each for less than the price of a single Elite. Just a thought.

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post #5 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't say it wouldn't work. I just think it would be way to difficult to set up and more trouble than its worth, unless you are sharing components between rooms. The way Harmon activities generally work is it will shut off any components not in use, and you can't have two activities going at the same time. So, if you want to play the xbox in the living room and watch cable in the bedroom, the remote could only control one or the other, even if you use the app. You can go in the app and control each device individually, but again, that will be a pain to do.
I think I am starting to get a handle on how all this works now, at least at a very introductory level.

Also, bear in mind, that I live alone. So at least for now, assuming I understand you and the Logitech tech guy correctly it would not be an impediment to my use of the remote if I were to be in the living room, say gaming and watching TV, and then decide to go into the bedroom for gaming/watching/music and such. Because I would never, as far as I know, want to operate a living room device while in the bedroom, or a bedroom device, while in the living room. In fact, both rooms have separate A/C's so when I am in one room on a hot day, only that A/C is on.

This could become an issue if I have company and some of us are in one room and others in the other room, but for that I can always just make sure to save the original remotes, which I am using now anyway. So my guests or me can use the regular remotes in one room and the Harmony in the other. But to use your example, I don't foresee myself, in the near future, needing to be operating one device in the bedroom while I am hanging in the LR, for example.

I also think that if that becomes a problem then I can always at that point snag another Harmony Remote, maybe getting a cheaper one for the second remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
The hub comes with IR blasters, so you don't need to get them from Amazon, and you may not need them. The blasters are only there to reach components that are hidden from the reach or the hub. There is no limit to the number of deivices the the hub or blaster can reach. Basically the hub blasts IR light, which bounces all over the room and can control most devices. If they are in a cabinet or hidden you run a IR blaster inside the cabinet and it acts like an extension of the hub. There could be 20 devices in the cabinet, it doesn't care.
I looked on Amazon and it looks like the HUB only comes with one IR Blaster. Out of curiosity, what is the range of the Hub without using a Blaster?

I just measured, and the 75" TV sits atop the long TV stand. Assuming the Hub does not need line of site, and I can seat it in the same part of the cabinet as the receiver, which is located centrally, then nothing in that cabinet (PS4, Xbox One, Receiver, TV, and Cable Box) would be anymore than between 8 and 18 inches from the Hub. Although the Sonax cabinet has enclosures (see pic below) and the distances would be through the particle board.

So would I then not need an IR Blaster if everything is that close? Furthermore, if that is the case, then can I use the blaster for the A/C on the other side of the room, in a window about 9 feet from the TV stand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
You got it correct, you can control may more light and they don't count as devices. Yes you can control the lights with Alexa, that why I mentioned you can get two cheaper Harmony remote that control 10 devices each for less than the price of a single Elite. Just a thought.

This is definitely worth considering, though I think my serious case of G.A.S. is making me drool over the Elite, even if it isn't necessary lol!

Here is the TV stand, with my receiver located same as in the advert pic, in the bottom-middle, my Center speaker squeezed in the space above that, my cable box is in enclosure to the top-left, the Xbox One S on the bottom right, and the PS4 Pro used to be in the top right, but I had to move it to the top of the cabinet, under the right of the TV, outside a cabinet. The reason is because PS3's and PS4's run VERY VERY VERY hot, and not only can you cook your unit if it is in an encloses space, but it actually can cause a fire risk lol. So since everything is black, it is barely visible on top, sticking under the TV. My metal stand is not nearly as wide as the one on the bottom of the TV in that pic, so the PS4 actually looks pretty cool tucked in there and fits very nicely, not to mention runs MUCH cooler now that I can't fry an egg on it.


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post #6 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 05:59 PM
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You should probably just go ahead an ditch the Playstations and stick to Xbox

I have a cabinet in the living room very similar to that setup. I have the hub in the cabinet, and it still controls everything without a problem. In the basement I have the hub a good 14 feet from my projector and it works great. I don't use any of the blasters.

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post #7 of 8 Old 10-03-2017, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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You should probably just go ahead an ditch the Playstations and stick to Xbox

I have a cabinet in the living room very similar to that setup. I have the hub in the cabinet, and it still controls everything without a problem. In the basement I have the hub a good 14 feet from my projector and it works great. I don't use any of the blasters.

Great to know, thanks!

Of course the obvious question is can I use the blaster for the Air Conditioner, which is across the room, about 9 feet away? I mean, as you said, one does come with the Hub, so it won't hurt to use if in that capacity, right?


Edit: I just re-read your post, and you said your projector is 14 feet away with no problems. So with my A/C only about 9-10 feet away, would I be correct in assuming I won't need the accompanying blaster?
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I wouldn't think it would have a problem.

My Theater Build: The Underground Apolkalypse Theater
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