The official Harmony 360 remote owners thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 339 Old 03-01-2006, 01:00 PM
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By the way, the Convert process on the members website was not working. I called Logitech customer service and they told me they have been having a problem with that process, so they did it at their end.
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post #92 of 339 Old 03-01-2006, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

- Unfortunately, there is not a way. It's definitely one of the flaws of the Harmony line. Email Logitech and complain about it. Maybe if enough people do it, they will fix it.

I just sent them an email. I also called. Hopefully others will do the same.
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post #93 of 339 Old 03-04-2006, 10:04 AM
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I know there is an option to change the order of listedz activities, but I dont see an option to adjust the order of all the devices. I have 6 devices but the one I use the most is on the second LCD page. "change device order" is not listed on the harmony programming page.
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post #94 of 339 Old 03-14-2006, 01:25 PM
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I have a question, i think i am going to get this remote because fo the "state" remebering. I have a couple of questions though. I have a Toshiba DVD/Tivo and I want to be able to have two activities, one for the Tivo and one for the DVD. Maybe it'll be easier if i describe it like this:

DVD activity : I want the Tv to be on, reciever on, tivo/dvd on, and then press the button to switch from dvd to tivo (even if its on dvd this won't hurt)
Tvio : Tv, reciever, tivo on and press the "live tv" button to make sure its on live tv
TV: tivo off, tv on, reciver on

Ok so bascially i want to see if you can have button presses in the activities. Also, i was wondering about this scenerio. You start will all devices off, from there when you start using, does it keep a tally of everything off an on, then when you do a final power down everything would be off. Then the next day it knows everything is still off (unless you manually do it). Sorry if this doesn't make sense. Any help would be awsome!
Thanks!
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post #95 of 339 Old 03-14-2006, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Character_Zero View Post

I have a question, i think i am going to get this remote because fo the "state" remebering. I have a couple of questions though. I have a Toshiba DVD/Tivo and I want to be able to have two activities, one for the Tivo and one for the DVD. Maybe it'll be easier if i describe it like this:

DVD activity : I want the Tv to be on, reciever on, tivo/dvd on, and then press the button to switch from dvd to tivo (even if its on dvd this won't hurt)
Tvio : Tv, reciever, tivo on and press the "live tv" button to make sure its on live tv
TV: tivo off, tv on, reciver on

Yes, this is exactly the sort of thing the Harmony remotes are designed to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Character_Zero View Post

Ok so bascially i want to see if you can have button presses in the activities. Also, i was wondering about this scenerio. You start will all devices off, from there when you start using, does it keep a tally of everything off an on, then when you do a final power down everything would be off. Then the next day it knows everything is still off (unless you manually do it). Sorry if this doesn't make sense. Any help would be awsome!
Thanks!

You can define a series of commands to run when an activity begins, and another series to run when the activity ends. And yes, the remote will keep a tally of everything on and off from day to day, unless you confuse it by switching something manually or with the original remote. If it does somehow get "out of synch," there is a Help function that sequentially steps you through all of the devices to restore synchronization.
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post #96 of 339 Old 03-14-2006, 08:24 PM
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Awsome! Remote ordered!
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post #97 of 339 Old 03-14-2006, 10:47 PM
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This is the reason I will return my remote. That is stupid. It takes me just as long to pick up the other remote. I bought this for ease, and taking time to press a button and wait for another screen, press another button, and then have what I need. That is crappy for $140.00 (after tax). May sound lame, but I bought this for ease, and that isn't easy... I did email Logitech and when they fix the problem I will buy it again, until then looks like my search will continue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

- Unfortunately, there is not a way. It's definitely one of the flaws of the Harmony line. Email Logitech and complain about it. Maybe if enough people do it, they will fix it.

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post #98 of 339 Old 03-15-2006, 10:32 AM
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First I'd like to start by saying I like logitech's hardware generally. Over the years I've used a number of their mice and webcam products and they've worked well. However my biggest complaint has always been their software and the software for the 360 remote sets new standards of awfulness even for them.

First and foremost this software wizard is using around 200 megs of memory and loading at startup on my XP machine! That means that long after I configure the remote this thing would be booting up on my PC in the vain hope I got a new piece of equipment in my AV rack and needed to add it to the remote. I thought something must be wrong with the computer I installed their software on so I tried it on several different machines. Clean installs, old installs, minimal services running etc it didn't matter this thing was always clocking in around 200 megs of memory.

It isn't such a problem for me I have a good pc and I can control what the software does, but if I recommend this thing to a less technically savvy family member or friend with a normal computer Logitech's software would at the least severely hamper their PC's function. Which brings me to another point why does Logitech install 2-4 extra services with every device? Again there are ways around that but if I let Logitech have its way I would have 8 extra processes running to control three devices one of which, the remote, is almost never connected to my computer! Logitech installs updaters, nagware, config utils that should be solely in the control panel, etc. it never ends with these guys. I had to register to actually configure the remote and about ten minutes latter I get a popup form their desktop manager asking. To register again!#$@? I'm sure that registration was totally different from the first registration which would roughly be my point.

And we haven't even gotten to the remote itself which has a wizard that is to be generous counter intuitive in many respects. By default why doesn't my Logitech 360 remote control the media extender aspects of my Xbox 360? The bundled remote that came with my WinTV-PVR-150 did a better job out of the box controlling my 360 than the Logitech 360 remote. Do I set the 360 up as a game console with DVD or as a home theater pc? Either one is not a perfect solution, to get what I want I have to spend time digging through their bizarre interface to manually configure. For $140 this thing should not be so much work to get working properly. Why aren't there devices in the list labeled Xbox 360 v. Xbox 360 media extender? If they can't be bothered to do that then at least allow manual configuration without the wizard. I could go on.

The physical remote itself uses buttons that click in many places to scroll through menus. I happen to not like this but that is more a personal taste issue.

Other than that it's great.

The help button on the remote is a good idea and resolved issues like the remote turning on my Sirius receiver when I hit the power off button. It is neat when you walk in the room in the morning and the remote turns on when it senses vibration. When properly configured it does its job well. My wife now has no problem controlling our AV setup and is very comfortable switching between devices. I just don't think it is as easy as Logitech advertises. The software sloppiness is totally inexcusable and only happening because they think nobody will notice.

I wrote Logitech about these concerns and received only blandishment in return.
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post #99 of 339 Old 03-15-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahr2003 View Post

I just sent them an email. I also called. Hopefully others will do the same.

Here's the text of the email I sent:

"Within an activity, the LCD button assignments always seem to sort themselves by device. The result is that the button assignments are not in the order I want.

It would be nice to be able to get the remote (or the software) to stop sorting the LCD button assignments by device, and just leave them in the order I entered them.

Also, when the user adds an LCD button assignment to one activity, it is sometimes automatically duplicated to other activities. Usually, this is NOT desirable, so it would be nice to be able to turn off this automatic duplication "

Here's the response I received:

"Thank you for your recent inquiry about your Harmony Remote

I am sorry to inform you that at this moment we are not supporting Russian; however it might be supported in the future. Furthermore if you have any problems, questions or concerns you can contact us via email or telephone in our supported languages: English, French, Spanish, Dutch, Italian, and Danish. We apologize for the inconvenience and look forward to working with you.

Please click the link below for our support hours and contact information.

If you would like further information and other tips on customizing your remote please visit the FAQ portion of your Harmony member website. To access, Click "Support", then click "FAQ" while logged in your harmony member page.

We hope that we were able to assist you in resolving this issue, however if you are still experiencing any difficulties with your Harmony Remote, please feel free to contact us again. Please click the link below for our support hours and contact information"

Then I received the following email:

"We have not heard from you concerning your request for support in the 120 hours since we sent you a response. Consequently, we have changed the status of your question to SOLVED."

Well, I guess that's it then, isn't it?
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post #100 of 339 Old 03-15-2006, 06:26 PM
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Maybe they thought that you were speaking Russian to them seeing that most of the tech support I think is in India or something, if not then I don't know where the hell they are cause I know I can't understand them when I call. Maybe we could flood there email with an email bomb or something.... lol Maybe that will get a response.
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post #101 of 339 Old 03-15-2006, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boozshey View Post

Maybe they thought that you were speaking Russian to them seeing that most of the tech support I think is in India or something, if not then I don't know where the hell they are cause I know I can't understand them when I call. Maybe we could flood there email with an email bomb or something.... lol Maybe that will get a response.

Sounds like a simple mistake in which somebody got two customers mixed up. Harmony tech support has a good reputation, although they do occasionally drop the ball. I've never had any trouble understanding them when I call, or noticed any particular accent. The first response guys generally only handle basic things and have to kick any real problems upstairs, but that is pretty much universal with tech support.
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post #102 of 339 Old 04-08-2006, 07:15 AM
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I have an 880 but I'm sure you guys can help. Is there a way to NOT have the 880 power on the 360? I'd rather power it on by the controller.
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post #103 of 339 Old 04-08-2006, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Stryker412 View Post

I have an 880 but I'm sure you guys can help. Is there a way to NOT have the 880 power on the 360? I'd rather power it on by the controller.

Redo the initial setup for the XBox 360 and tell it "There are no power buttons."
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post #104 of 339 Old 04-08-2006, 06:29 PM
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Thanks that worked. What does everyone have for their timing delay settings?
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post #105 of 339 Old 04-08-2006, 11:43 PM
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For the XBox360, I have 1500, 0, 0.
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post #106 of 339 Old 04-10-2006, 06:49 PM
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madeyeb:

msconfig is your new friend

click start-run, type msconfig

then find the startup tab, find the logitech software, turn it off. no more start on boot.
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post #107 of 339 Old 04-11-2006, 09:27 AM
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Something must be up with my updater. I went to go change the timings on the 360, and no matter if I clicked the Troubleshooting or More options link I got the same page.
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post #108 of 339 Old 04-11-2006, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

madeyeb:

msconfig is your new friend

click start-run, type msconfig

then find the startup tab, find the logitech software, turn it off. no more start on boot.

Thanks I'm aware of that but I do appreciate the heads up. Regedit, removing it from the startup folder and uninstalling are all options too.

My larger point though is that a piece of software that is configuring my remote using over 200 megs of memory is a sin. Logitech was completely unconcerned about this when contacted. I got a form letter that they hadn't heard from me in a month so they "assumed the problem was resolved". I hadn't heard from them asking for clarification on the problem. Writing to them that it was not resolved resulted in no response. Understandable? Yes. Excellent customer service? Not even close.
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post #109 of 339 Old 04-11-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadEyeB View Post

Thanks I'm aware of that but I do appreciate the heads up. Regedit, removing it from the startup folder and uninstalling are all options too.

My larger point though is that a piece of software that is configuring my remote using over 200 megs of memory is a sin. Logitech was completely unconcerned about this when contacted. I got a form letter that they hadn't heard from me in a month so they "assumed the problem was resolved". I hadn't heard from them asking for clarification on the problem. Writing to them that it was not resolved resulted in no response. Understandable? Yes. Excellent customer service? Not even close.

The "if we don't hear back from you we approve the problem is resolved" is a standard part of Harmony's customer service letter. Basically, if you want them to continue to be involved to fix a problem, then you need to respond. If you are just complaining about something, then the complaint is probably registered.

I can understand why they are not particularly concerned about the software "using" 200 megs of memory. With modern operating systems, this doesn't mean much. It's not like the old days when RAM reserved by an application was unavailable for use by other programs--any memory that isn't active gets paged to disk, anyway, so the impact on performance of even a large program is minimal unless it is actually doing something. Still, I'm surprised that there is not a simple way to stop it from loading under Windows; on the Mac, it is just a matter of changing a single preference.
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post #110 of 339 Old 04-17-2006, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgibbs View Post

I can understand why they are not particularly concerned about the software "using" 200 megs of memory. With modern operating systems, this doesn't mean much. It's not like the old days when RAM reserved by an application was unavailable for use by other programs--any memory that isn't active gets paged to disk, anyway, so the impact on performance of even a large program is minimal unless it is actually doing something. Still, I'm surprised that there is not a simple way to stop it from loading under Windows; on the Mac, it is just a matter of changing a single preference.

Your note on memory while technically correct to a point misses the larger issue. The entire Windows XP operating system doesn't use 200 megs of memory on a base install. So to give you a sense of just how badly coded this software is it is using more memory than all of windows xp. That isn't particularly concerning? When people criticize Microsoft they need to turn a jaundiced eye at every third party programmer that isn't particularly concerned with how system resources are used, because that would roughly be my whole point here. If every coder says 200 megs is not particularly concerning then all of the sudden your system is bogged down by a bunch of pointless resource hogs.

Several of the fixes I listed are setting a "preference" for windows my complaint is that logitech gives you no option.

The fact that Logitech doesn't have a form letter that says something to the effect, "Thanks for the input dully noted." and instead sent a form letter that says, "We fixed your problem" shows a rigidity of organization that explains their problems. Be it coders who like you think utilizing 200 megs of memory is no big deal or CSRs who push out a form letter without ever reading the complaint. Or worse when they read it and don't understand simply close it.

Many organizations have these sorts of problems. Having had the misfortune of dealing with Apple support in the past I guess I understand why you would view this as the norm. However, company's who want to maintain their long-term fiscal health should not treat their customers like this.

I'd also like to say that none of the above is meant as an attack on apple, I know apple users are touchy about their company and I don't care to have a discussion over the merits of Apple v. Microsoft both companies have their strengths and weaknesses and that is unrelated to this issue. For the record I use equipment from both companies.
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post #111 of 339 Old 04-17-2006, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadEyeB View Post

Your note on memory while technically correct to a point misses the larger issue. The entire Windows XP operating system doesn't use 200 megs of memory on a base install. So to give you a sense of just how badly coded this software is it is using more memory than all of windows xp. That isn't particularly concerning? When people criticize Microsoft they need to turn a jaundiced eye at every third party programmer that isn't particularly concerned with how system resources are used, because that would roughly be my whole point here. If every coder says 200 megs is not particularly concerning then all of the sudden your system is bogged down by a bunch of not particularly concerned.

Several of the fixes I listed are setting a "preference" for windows my complaint is that logitech gives you no option.

On the Mac, all you do to stop the Harmony Remote software from running at boot is go to the Login Items in the Preferences pane and delete the Harmony software. This is the standard Mac interface for controlling what programs load at boot. Takes about 10 seconds. Or for that matter, I can simply call up the Harmony Remote menu from the dock and choose "Quit." There is no need for Harmony to provide an option, because the option whether or not to run at boot is a standard part of the Mac OS, available for all programs. If it is also this trivial under Windows, then I don't see what you are complaining about.

Are you really sure that the software is "bogging down" your computer? As simple as it is to quit the program or diasable auto-loading, I generally don't bother, because I haven't been able to detect any impact on performance. And for comparison, the Harmony remote software asks for 537 MB on my Mac. But when I check to see what resources it is actually using at idle, it turns out to be 26 MB (under 1.5% of available RAM) and also under 1.5% of the cpu. Small wonder that I can't detect any improvement from quitting. So I generally just leave it running for convenience. Windows is also a modern OS, so I imagine that the impact is similarly small. In the old days, when software ran in fixed RAM partitions, it was important for a resident program to minimize its RAM partition and manage its own disk storage of anything large. But with modern virtual memory based operating systems, it is more efficient to simply allocate a large chunk of virtual memory and let the OS determine how much of that space needs to be RAM and how much on disk. If there happens to be a lot of RAM available when the program tries to access the space, then it will run entirely in RAM, and be very efficient. If resources are limited, either because the system has limited RAM or because other software is competing for the space, then it will end up with most of its data being paged to disk.
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post #112 of 339 Old 04-17-2006, 10:42 AM
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You repeated your prior point, albeit with expanded facts, but failed to address anything I wrote. Your description of how an OS works is mostly correct but as I said misses the forest from this particular tree.

My absolute primary point is that it is pure laziness to write a program that uses 200 megs of main memory. You say, doesn't matter it is only a 2% hit. If it was only a 2% hit and only this time okay maybe. But you and I both know that Logitech's remote software isn't t he last piece of software going on our computers. It isn't even the last logitech software. Logitech is not alone in doing this sort of thing it is simply the most egregious example I've come across. I am also making this point not for people like yourself who know your way around your computer but people who bought this product because it said "easy installation" on the package.

The program can and should be done with much less system impact. I have never seen a program for a home workstation that uses so much. You are correct that many people including coders don't view using system resources this way as a problem, but that is exactly my point. Every time I have to go to a family member's house because their computer is slow and I boot the thing up and 20 icons activate in the taskbar who's fault is that? The user's? The fact is it is a problem in the computer industry writ large and Logitech in particular. If they all want a piece of real-estate on the desktop than for cripes sake write an efficient ap.

As I said last time it is a simple process to turn off this logitech software using windows controls, I'll repeat for a third time that it should be an option in the logitech software and not reliant on a users knowledge of windows or mac OSx. Actually my real point is it should never be a startup service at all because how many times are we going to reprogram the remote? 4,5, 10 times. It still doesn't make sense to have this thing running at boot even if it is only using 2% of resources. If I let logitech have its way with the various devices I own (mouse, webcam, remote, etc) from them it would install 8 unnecessary processes. If resource management is no big deal "given the modern OS" that would mean 16% of my processing down the tube. (Not a fair statement because not all their software uses 200 megs but you get the idea) And that is just the logitech stuff. The fact is the average windows user has only 500 megs of memory which means your percentages should be higher, I understand that your average apple desktop or G4 has much more than that but they are sold as premium rigs with premium prices.

Frankly, however, if I had a high performance car and took it to get new radio with remote and they informed me that I was going to lose 2% on my gas mileage not because of the radio but rather because of their spiffy new remote I'd be ripped. Your right, most people don't notice, at least at first. But this mentality that a +2% system hit for a third party ap that always runs is not a problem is pernicious in the extreme.
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post #113 of 339 Old 04-17-2006, 11:15 AM
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I'm having a problem with my remote. The volume buttons are no longer responding when pressed as well as the #,* and lower row of keys. I have RMA'd the remote once and now the same thing is happening again.

Has anyone else had something similar happen or know of a fix?
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post #114 of 339 Old 04-19-2006, 08:14 AM
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What benefits does the 880 offer over the 360 remote? (Yes, I have an Xbox 360.)

I'm trying to navigate the reviews and the Logitech website, but I haven't found a side by side comparison.

I have:

Xbox 360
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD PVR
Kenwood receiver VR something or other, I'll have to check
Panasonic DVR-E30 DVD recorder <-- rarely used
Panasonic DVD-RP91 DVD player
Toshiba CW34XC2 34" widescreen HDCRT
Zektor HDS4.1 component video/digital audio switcher
Daytek P71 multi-region DVD player <-- rarely used
Mitsubishi S-VHS VCR <-- never used

My Kenwood receiver's remote is a universal learning remote, but I find it extremely irritating to use. Thus, I'm constantly flipping between:

DVD remote
Receiver remote
PVR remote
TV remote sometimes
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post #115 of 339 Old 04-19-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

What benefits does the 880 offer over the 360 remote? (Yes, I have an Xbox 360.)

Rechargeable batteries and recharging cradle
Color screen
8 LCD buttons (vs. 4)
16 device capability (vs. 12)
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post #116 of 339 Old 04-19-2006, 11:29 AM
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OK. That's good to hear. I dislike recharging cradles like the 880 has, so the 360 seems like what I want. Plus, the Harmony remote for the 360 is actually cheaper than the 520 at the moment here.

So, are people still having problems with the SA8300HD? It seems from the earlier posts that most issues have been solved. What about the other equipment I listed above?
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post #117 of 339 Old 04-22-2006, 09:07 AM
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MadEyeB... thanks for the heads up... I was wondering why everything was bogged down recently... and the logitech icon hid away so fast that I never was reminded to check the resoureces being used by it. 200mb... sheesh! I second your complaint... the logitech quickcam does the same thing, Sure their hardware is solid... but the coding of ALL of their software has always been terrible. C'mon Logitech... soon you'll remind me of my 'ol AOL days...
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post #118 of 339 Old 04-23-2006, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

What benefits does the 880 offer over the 360 remote? (Yes, I have an Xbox 360.)

I'm trying to navigate the reviews and the Logitech website, but I haven't found a side by side comparison.

I have:

Xbox 360
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD PVR
Kenwood receiver VR something or other, I'll have to check
Panasonic DVR-E30 DVD recorder <-- rarely used
Panasonic DVD-RP91 DVD player
Toshiba CW34XC2 34" widescreen HDCRT
Zektor HDS4.1 component video/digital audio switcher
Daytek P71 multi-region DVD player <-- rarely used
Mitsubishi S-VHS VCR <-- never used

My Kenwood receiver's remote is a universal learning remote, but I find it extremely irritating to use. Thus, I'm constantly flipping between:

DVD remote
Receiver remote
PVR remote
TV remote sometimes

OK, I had major issues switching video inputs on the TV. Unfortunately, the TV doesn't have the ability to go directly to an input. It must cycle through them, and the sensitivity of the IR sensor is not the greatest, especially just after the TV has been switched on. Basically, after turning the TV on using the Harmony 360, the TV would never go to the right input unless I held the Harmony 360 remote right in front of the IR sensor. Very annoying.

Anyways, what I've done now is hooked up my Panasonic RP91 DVD, Daytek P871 DVD, Xbox 360, and SA 8300HD all to the Zektor HDS4.1 component video / digital audio switcher. The Zektor has inputs that are directly selectable by the Harmony, and it doesn't degrade the component image quality at all. So, I just always leave the TV on the same component video input. Problem solved.

I swear, buying the Zektor switcher and the Harmony remote is the best thing I've done with my home theatre system in a very, very long time. I'm a happy camper. I can't get the remote to be quite as fast for scrolling lists, etc. as my Xbox 360 wireless controller and my SA8300 HD remote, but it's good enough. Being able to use just one remote makes up for it.

My DVD recorder is on a different TV input, but that's not a big deal, cuz I rarely use it - roughly once every 2 months.

P.S. I simply unplugged the VCR. It think the last time I used it was 1.5 years ago, and that was only to convert a friend's VHS tape to DVD.
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post #119 of 339 Old 04-24-2006, 08:20 AM
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You might try increasing the power-up delay for the TV. My TV requires 16 seconds (16000 ms!) before it can reliably accept input changes. Although if you are doing most things through the Zektor the improved input switching might not be worth the delay.
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post #120 of 339 Old 04-24-2006, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tgibbs View Post

You might try increasing the power-up delay for the TV. My TV requires 16 seconds (16000 ms!) before it can reliably accept input changes. Although if you are doing most things through the Zektor the improved input switching might not be worth the delay.

Yeah, I tried 10000 ms and it still wasn't good enough, and I didn't feel like holding the remote there for a 20000 ms delay. So, I thought it would just be easier to send all the video through the Zektor. Everything is done within a few seconds.

The only device that is on a different video input now is my rarely used Panasonic DVD recorder. I haven't even set that recorder up on the Harmony anyway, because it's configured to use a secondary set of Panasonic remote codes so as to not conflict with my Panasonic DVD player. However, I didn't see the secondary remote codes listed at the Logitech website. (If I use the default Logitech settings for the DVD recorder, it controls my DVD player instead.) I don't want to have to teach all the secondary codes to the Harmony either.

For the rare times I use the DVD recorder, I'll just whip out its remote. I need to get off my couch once in a while.
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