Harmony 880 . . . JUNK! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 112 Old 02-06-2006, 02:14 PM
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yeah, buy can be great, amazon can be better and DELL can win over all others with % off and $$ off coupons are added. Dell as well has a great return policy.
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post #92 of 112 Old 02-06-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
Expidia says: Thx for your comments on the 880. My first cradle was finicky but my replacement cradle is just fine. I would call Logictech and ask for another one.

Nice to hear a software engineer had problems. As other have said it does have a bit of a learning curve to it.

With so many issues, the thing I found most annoying was the 20-30 min wait time for me and than another 20-30 min after the first tech put me up to level II support. That was just plain wrong.

I went to add one button last night, an "A" on the first screen of my DVR remote so I could delete saved shows from the DVR without having to go to another page (out of 7 pages).

Once saved, it would not upload the saved program to my 880. Had to call tech support (another 20-30 min hold time). I even rebooted before I called them and it still would not upload.
He had me switch to a different USB port and it started working.
Simple issues like this take much of my time. Tells me the software is glitchy.

But I did just order a second one for my living room HT ($176 at 6th Ave off Pricegrabber) and it should be interesting to see what happens after my initial upload with my other components once it is delivered.

I hope Logitech honors their $50 rebate as my units last 4 #'s are different than the ones on the rebate form as others have pointed out or I'm out another $100 for the two units.

Excruciating is an excellent choice of your words for my experience (frustrating works for me too) with the whole setup process.

At least the end result, leaves us with a workable, reasonably priced ($126) unit with macros.

I have not even tried the custom labeling program yet :eek:

I would also agree with your ratings assessment and would give it the same #'s from my experience.

It sounds like you're still trying to use the Harmony as a device based remote. You should be adding that "delete" button to your "Watch DVR" ACTIVITY.

Also, the USB port thing is quite common. For some reason it won't work with the front USB ports of some computers. I have no idea why...I think some motherboards have a different interface between the front and back USB ports which causes issues. The front ports on my computer work fine, so I guess I'm lucky!
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post #93 of 112 Old 02-06-2006, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czzer
It sounds like you're still trying to use the Harmony as a device based remote. You should be adding that "delete" button to your "Watch DVR" ACTIVITY.

Also, the USB port thing is quite common. For some reason it won't work with the front USB ports of some computers. I have no idea why...I think some motherboards have a different interface between the front and back USB ports which causes issues. The front ports on my computer work fine, so I guess I'm lucky!
Thx czzer,
I was adding it to my watch TV activity! It was the uploading of the finished changes that hung up on sending it to the 880 thru the USB cable.
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post #94 of 112 Old 02-06-2006, 09:42 PM
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I hate to beat a potentially dead horse but...

My Harmony 880 is being used with my Philips 50PF7220A, SA 4200 HD, and 80 hour series 2 Tivo.

I have 3 settings, Tivo (AV1), Computer (HDMI 1), and HD TV (AV2). Sometimes the remote is dead on with the TV inputs, but sometimes its off & I cant get it working properly.

It seems that it turns on the TV & changes inputs before the TV itself is up & running, so the remote thinks it changed the inputs when in reality, it didnt do that at all.

Any suggestions?
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post #95 of 112 Old 02-06-2006, 09:44 PM
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if its missing switching inputs your timings are probably too low.... there is a "power on delay" under your tv settings which will make it wait longer before processing your tv input commands.
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post #96 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 07:14 AM
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I am guessing that if you spent one tenth the time trying to use your 880 as you do ranting here you would have the best programmed/working 880 in the world....
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post #97 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 02:05 PM
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Can any of you 880 owners tell me how long it took to charge your battery the first time you took it out of the box. - Mine lights up when in the charging base, and has been there for 4 hours or so, but when I remove it from the charging base it goes dark and is unresponsive. It seems like it is not charging at all.
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post #98 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
Thanks Angry, now that I found the $50 rebate which brings it down to $129, for that price I'll tweak around with the Damn thing a little more. I know it can do what I originally bought it for but for $179 I was fed up with having to invest all that time to make right which should have been right after I downloaded the component codes.

I'm going to give it one more try as you and others have suggested before it goes to Ebay as soon as the replacement unit arrives.

I'll report back on my success or crush it under my boot!

I still say I should not have to as you say "persevere" but I'll try once more :)

Just a side note...The remotes from ecost are canadian/us remotes vs US remotes. The prodcut number is different and doesnt qualify for the rebate.

Now in theroy----I didnt do this but

If I took mine in to best buy and told them that I got it as a present and I didnt have the reciept they gave me store credit of 250.00 (even though they couldnt ring it in) went to another best buy bought the remote with that store credit which had the correct product number. Then you could send the rebate in...Still using your ecost reciept because the product number is correct on the reciept from ecost.

Im not condoning this im just saying what could be done.
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post #99 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000
Can any of you 880 owners tell me how long it took to charge your battery the first time you took it out of the box. - Mine lights up when in the charging base, and has been there for 4 hours or so, but when I remove it from the charging base it goes dark and is unresponsive. It seems like it is not charging at all.
Sounds like the original problem I had with mine. The battery isn't making good contact and charging. If you take a piece of paper and wedge it at the bottom of the battery to push it up against the contacts it should work. I did that and then called Logitech and they sent me a whole new one. it only takes a few hours to give it a full charge.
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post #100 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper69
I am guessing that if you spent one tenth the time trying to use your 880 as you do ranting here you would have the best programmed/working 880 in the world....
Thanks for your input . . . I know that took courage to come up with that interesting comment and on your 4th post.

By the way, forum threads are just like watching the tv, you can always "change" the channel.

Were your other 3 posts this informative???
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post #101 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjay
Sounds like the original problem I had with mine. The battery isn't making good contact and charging. If you take a piece of paper and wedge it at the bottom of the battery to push it up against the contacts it should work. I did that and then called Logitech and they sent me a whole new one. it only takes a few hours to give it a full charge.
I noticed the loose battery issue after reading the forums. However I wedged the battery with paper so that is is tight against the contacts, and it still does not charge. As soon as I take it off the cradle it dies. The battery is not even warm after sitting for hours. I think mine has a problem.
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post #102 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000
I noticed the loose battery issue after reading the forums. However I wedged the battery with paper so that is is tight against the contacts, and it still does not charge. As soon as I take it off the cradle it dies. The battery is not even warm after sitting for hours. I think mine has a problem.
Call tech support, I'm sure they will replace the battery or the unit if within warranty!
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post #103 of 112 Old 02-07-2006, 07:53 PM
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I would guess that from when you turn the power button until when the TV shows an image & is responsive its about 8-10 seconds (until it is fully ready). How do I set such a long delay for the TV (from power on until it tries to change the input)?

How many MS is 10 seconds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar
if its missing switching inputs your timings are probably too low.... there is a "power on delay" under your tv settings which will make it wait longer before processing your tv input commands.
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post #104 of 112 Old 02-08-2006, 06:09 PM
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Is 10,000 milliseconds (MS)

:)
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post #105 of 112 Old 02-11-2006, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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This time around, since I knew what to expect to get the end result it was not as frustrating as the first time.

This was my living room setup with the uploading of 4 components plus the TV to the 880. This was also with a different tv and components than my bedroom setup.

20 minute setup . . . . ha ha ha ha :D (I also have this bridge in Brooklyn, I'd like to sell ya)
For those of you that had the 20 minute 880 setup time it must be due to you're buying all those Wamart brand components for your HT setup :p ha ha only kidding, I'm such a kidder.

First mistake: don't figure on starting the setup process to late at night (like I just did) because tech support closes at 10 pm. This 10pm closing time is yet another indication of how Logitech won't spend the money needed to correct our issues.

Maybe it was better when Harmony owned the company for many of the users of the older Harmony models. Maybe that's why so many other users say they had great tech support. Clearly this is not the case with the 880 model in my experience, now that Logitech owns Harmony.

So I had to put off getting the 880 working until I came home early the next day. They answered the phone in 30 seconds at 4pm! At night it takes 20-30 minutes for them to answer.

So after uploading the components it still took me about an hour to jimmy the stuff around and end result still gave me an input error where the TV would scroll right past the proper input and land on the wrong one each time. Moving around delays didn't help either. The help key does not correct these problems permanently, they have to be corrected by a software adjustment and a re-upload.

So a call to tech support the next day gave me another 30 minutes of time wasted with another inexperienced tech support person. She finally moved me up to the second level tech. who solved my input issue within a few minutes by mapping out discreet input commands from their end and then I uploaded the changes and after another few changes and uploads he finally got it working correctly.

The 880, in my opinion and as other posters have said, the end result is definitely worth it. This is why I bought the second 880.

But the setup and poor "first level" tech support is definitely a pain in the A*S to deal with.

But I am happy with both 880's now :) as they do exactly what I bought them to do.

Still the 20 minute setup time that Logitech advertises is bogus in my opinion, now after two 880 setups and I'm even experienced with the 2nd installation so it should have went smoother.

The issue I had with both setups is directly related to how the software handles the inputs which is the most important part of the 1 button macro process.

For some users TV's you may get lucky and the software is able to handle your tv's inputs correctly. But my experience with a brand new 50 inch Panasonic plasma and my other tv which is a 61 inch Sony rear projector both gave me the same input problems which forced me to call Logitech tech support.

This is where the problem is. I don't mind the calling of tech support, it's free and I appreciate that (but for how long, who knows). What I do mind is all issues could be solved very quickly if their tech support people were trained to the second level status. What Logitech is doing is using us to TRAIN their first level support people.

This is what I find most annouying with the whole process. Clearly, their support people are very inexperienced and expect to waste much of your time on your first call to them until you get passed up to the next level. And if you're calling at night, expect to be on hold another 30 minutes to get to the next level.

Conclusion after TWO 880 setups: It's a great remote with a probable 3 hour expected setup time for many of us that are not lucky enough to have it work the first time around with your particular HT component brands.

Logitech is going to continue to see a lot of 880 units returned for the same frustrations I experienced. Maybe then, they will spend some money for qualified support people (and also extend their support hours).

If that happens, the 880 and similar models could sweep a big share of the universal macro remote market.
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post #106 of 112 Old 02-11-2006, 09:59 AM
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I think you are very unlucky with your components. My 680 had no trouble handling input switching on both my Toshiba RPTV and Denon A/V receiver with no tweaking required. 20 minutes was probably pretty accurate for a workable setup. Now, it took a lot longer to tweak everything to be just how I want it, but most people would have been happy enough after the initial setup.

BTW, the Help button is not designed to and does not make any permanent adjustments to your remote's programming. As you discovered, you have to do that through the web software.

I think a large part of your frustration is due to an unwillingness or inability to use some of the advanced features of the programming software. Instead, you rely very heavily on tech support to hold your hand. There is nothing wrong with that, and that is to be expected for a large portion of the users so Harmony should definitely handle that better. However, there are also a lot of other users who are willing to learn the ins and outs of the remote and software and handle things themselves. I believe this probably saves time and frustration in the long run, but it is not for everybody.

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post #107 of 112 Old 02-11-2006, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.m.
I think you are very unlucky with your components. My 680 had no trouble handling input switching on both my Toshiba RPTV and Denon A/V receiver with no tweaking required. 20 minutes was probably pretty accurate for a workable setup. Now, it took a lot longer to tweak everything to be just how I want it, but most people would have been happy enough after the initial setup.

BTW, the Help button is not designed to and does not make any permanent adjustments to your remotes programming. As you discovered, you have to do that through the web software.

I think a large part of your frustration is due to an unwillingness or inability to use some of the advanced features of the programming software. Instead, you rely very heavily on tech support to hold your hand. There is nothing wrong with that, and that is to be expected for a large portion of the users so Harmony should definitely handle that better. However, there are also a lot of other users who are willing to learn the ins and outs of the remote and software and handle things themselves. I believe this probably saves time and frustration in the long run, but it is not for everybody.
Thanks for your comments . . . I still don't get the fact that so many posters can't believe that the 880 just won't work as described for the initial setup. Eventually when Logitech gets enough complaints from users like me along with returns of the unit, maybe they will solve the software issues. These input issues should not be there IMO. If you enjoy tweaking and I'm sure you do from your sig. more power to you. I don't. And please don't tell me the remotes not for me or I don't want to learn the advanced features.

This is my second unit and I did try the advanced features and still had to call their poor first level support which was once again a waste of much of my time.

For a list price of over $200, no one should have to deal with poor customer support and a much to be desired, user unfriendly software interface.

This is my opinion and I'll stand by it. I've invested over $350 so far for the two 880's and found the same issues even with different components. For $350, I think I have a right to my opinions and experiences, don't I?

My unbiased opinions could at least let potential 880 buyers know what they may be in for in that they may not be as lucky or software knowledgeable as you.

Maybe even Logitech will take note of this thread and correct these issues.

The 880 to me in the end, still appears to be a great device for the price even with it's setup and learning curve issues.
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post #108 of 112 Old 02-12-2006, 06:52 AM
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I don't think there's going to be any 'resolution' to this back and forth. Obviously some people will have problems with setting up their 880, and some people will not. I personally have had no problems setting up my 880 or the 659 before it. It certainly would be misleading to imply that everybody will have theirs set up within 20 minutes, and I guess that's what started this thread.

As I look at the comments here, the question I have to ask is: Is there a remote that we would rather have, one that can do everything and can be set up for everyone more easily? For me, the answer is no. Through the years I've bought so many remotes in search of 'THE ONE' that would allow me to get rid of the clutter on my coffee table. None of them could do that until I got my 659 (now operating my downstairs equipment). On my coffee table I now have my 880. That's it. My wife can operate it. My kids can use it.

Expidia, I gather that you like what your 880 can do as well - otherwise you wouldn't have gotten two. You had problems setting yours up, and you had problems with tech support. Fair enough. Have some of us been 'lucky' enough to have our setups go smoothly, or have you (and I'm sure others) been 'unlucky' enough to have problems (twice!)? I guess it depends on how the setup went :)
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post #109 of 112 Old 02-12-2006, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez
I don't think there's going to be any 'resolution' to this back and forth. Obviously some people will have problems with setting up their 880, and some people will not. I personally have had no problems setting up my 880 or the 659 before it. It certainly would be misleading to imply that everybody will have theirs set up within 20 minutes, and I guess that's what started this thread.

As I look at the comments here, the question I have to ask is: Is there a remote that we would rather have, one that can do everything and can be set up for everyone more easily? For me, the answer is no. Through the years I've bought so many remotes in search of 'THE ONE' that would allow me to get rid of the clutter on my coffee table. None of them could do that until I got my 659 (now operating my downstairs equipment). On my coffee table I now have my 880. That's it. My wife can operate it. My kids can use it.

Expidia, I gather that you like what your 880 can do as well - otherwise you wouldn't have gotten two. You had problems setting yours up, and you had problems with tech support. Fair enough. Have some of us been 'lucky' enough to have our setups go smoothly, or have you (and I'm sure others) been 'unlucky' enough to have problems (twice!)? I guess it depends on how the setup went :)
What you say is true . . . And I'm not looking for a back and forth thread. I was commenting on that my second setup had problems just like my first.

I just think potential buyers should be aware especially after my 2nd experience that if you are going to spend $175 or even $350 as I did, when it comes to setting up a device as expensive as this one . . . we should not have to leave it up to LUCK!

I do feel bad though that my originally title of the thread which says "Harmony JUNK" (I was ticked off at the time) I tried to change it, but the system won't go back and change past thread titles. I think the unit itself is great and far surpasses my former Pronto unit for setup.

I would have liked to adjust the title of the thread to something like: "Harmony setup too time consuming for me, not as advertised".
This would be a fairer assessment of the device IMO.
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post #110 of 112 Old 02-12-2006, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expidia
For a list price of over $200, no one should have to deal with poor customer support and a much to be desired, user unfriendly software interface.
I agree and said as much in my other post. While I have no experience with the tech support people, I concur that the software is severely lacking in useability and have gone into detail about that in other posts. My point was that there are a lot of people (especially here) who will at least perceive their initial setup experience to be a lot smoother than yours because they are perhaps more inclined to tweaking and do not significantly use technical support (which is almost universally bad these days, especially at the first levels). Obviously, this doesn't represent everyone and apparently doesn't represent you; however, it may explain some things about why people don't understand your plight.

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post #111 of 112 Old 02-13-2006, 07:14 PM
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im sorry to hear that you have continued problems...:( mine works really good. In fact I found a hidden remote code thats not on my factory remote that makes it jump to the specified input...Couple of things I will change...I will change the turning on of my xbox 360 becuase I usually have the controller there...I will set it to adjust the tv and other componets accordingly...

I do wish it would type my favorite channels faster i got the inter key as low as possible on that...

Other than that for my overall cost of 110.00 very much worth it considering the the nex closest remote i looked at was 80.00 and it didnt do half of what this remote does...and best of all my mom when she comes over, my dad, when he comes over, my girlfriend, they can all work it with no problems.

I could have gone with a lower remote 659 or what not perhaps...but this remote is awesome.

I wish your luck was the same...I will give you the fact that the remote could use some weight to it. and i i wish the buttons on the 880 where rubberized.
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post #112 of 112 Old 02-13-2006, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zikronix
I do wish it would type my favorite channels faster i got the inter key as low as possible on that...
Try reducing the inter-device delay also
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