FYI: New URC policy on MX series....no updates... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 508 Old 08-07-2006, 09:27 PM
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Well, I am not thrilled about this new policy either - given that I am an Internet shopper, in the market for a remote, and like to have my stuff as future proof as possible.

That being said, here is another element I don't think has been brought up. I'm in the market for a new remote. I read all about the MX series but still wanted to know more. Therefore, I downloaded the MX Editor software to better understand how the remote works. I thought it was a great way of getting to know the remote without actually having the remote. It actually conviniced me which model I liked best.

Pulling the software off the web site will take that discovery away from the future potential shopper. I (and a lot of future buyers) don't go to the AD's web sites for more information. Buyers go to the manufacture's web sites when they want to find more information. Even if that software is available from an AD pre-sales (which I SERIOUS doubt it would be given how coveted this software will be), I would be less inclinded to have to request it from anyone vs. just being able to download it of my own free will.

As far as all the posts I have read before this one, most of them have had valid points. But, the posts I agree with the most is that this action is being taken is in response to a problem URC has with their distribution channel. The HT market is growing. URC should be increasing their distribution channel, not reducing it. Limiting their supply to specific retailers will reduce their accessibility and overall reduce the number of units they sell. Not only that, but consumers that buy from major online retails (buy.com comes to mind) or smaller online retailers are in for a big surprise. URC's reputation is at risk of being smeared because of this from the subset of people that actually investigate products on the internet before they buy - and that number of consumers is growing each day (case in point, I would not but a Harmony 890 because of all the negative things I have read). In the end, only the consumers will suffer.

Regarding the posts about MSRP. No educated consumer should ever pay MSRP. These prices are exactly what the name stands for "suggested." If you were a corporation, you would laugh at list price. The private consumer is no different.

To those that say this will be a problem... I laugh. Maybe it will be, maybe not. I laugh because soon the UD's will have the software (at least the ones in the business and care to have it). All they have to do is buy one of each model from an AD and opps, now the have access to all the new software. The cost of doing business - IF they still want to sell it and care to offer they software.

At the end of the day, will I still buy an URC? Maybe, but I will also look a little harder at the other competing options where yesterday I was about to pull the trigger on an MX series.

For the dealers (AD's and UD's) out there reading this, PM me with prices for a MX-850 and a MRF-300 or MRF-250 (I'm not sure which of these two base stations I need).

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post #92 of 508 Old 08-07-2006, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemywithin
I purchased 3 MX-850's a couple of weeks ago. I would have made a different choice had I known this would happen.

For current "unauthorized" owners, the solution to future updates is clear. Find an authorized dealer with a good return policy, buy a new remote, get the latest software, update your old remote, then return the new remote.

What a poor decision by URC.
Considering all of the mud slinging aimed at URC, who's more unethical; a company trying to protect it's dealers or people like enemywithin?

If that's how you conduct yourself and do business, why do you think you deserve support?
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post #93 of 508 Old 08-07-2006, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodynamics
Considering all of the mud slinging aimed at URC, who's more unethical; a company trying to protect it's dealers or people like enemywithin?

If that's how you conduct yourself and do business, why do you think you deserve support?
While I would never do something like that as a small business owner myself and find that type of response disturbing I can't say that URC is going to drum up much sympathy based on the way they have decided to treat their customers. That said, I would never leave my most loyal (or any for that matter) customers high and dry, just like URC has done. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

And I think you should correct your first sentence to:

who's more unethical; a company that is without warning deserting their preexisting customers or people like enemywithin?
Answer: I don't know, both are pretty rotten things to do.
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post #94 of 508 Old 08-07-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed M
While I would never do something like that as a small business owner myself and find that type of response disturbing I can't say that URC is going to drum up much sympathy based on the way they have decided to treat their customers. That said, I would never leave my most loyal (or any for that matter) customers high and dry, just like URC has done. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

And I think you should correct your first sentence to:

who's more unethical; a company that is without warning deserting their preexisting customers or people like enemywithin?
Answer: I don't know, both are pretty rotten things to do.
Regardless of certain forum members distaste for URC's new policies and their desires to exact revenge on URC, I don't think it's any better to take it out on a hard working dealer by defrauding the dealer.

So you have no sympathy for URC or for their lost sales that you speculate they will lose, does that mean one of their unsuspecting dealers should pay the price?
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post #95 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 06:22 AM
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"So you have no sympathy for URC or for their lost sales that you speculate they will lose, does that mean one of their unsuspecting dealers should pay the price?"

Of course not.Niether the dealer nor the current owners of URC remotes should be suffering because of URC's decision.
Since this poorly designed policy is now in force,some current owners(not me BTW) are going to suffer.In light of your question above.do you think this is fair?

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post #96 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 08:44 AM
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The thing about URC is that they've never really been a customer-friendly company, to say the least. I think of the MX-1000 which was the first URC remote I bought. They just up and decided one day to stop upgrading the programming software which was chock full of bugs, leaving any customer who bought one stranded high & dry. To make matters worse, they never announced that new policy and continued to advertise the product on their web site for years as having "continuing software updates", which was nothing more than a flat-out lie.

I've been unhappy with the center select pad on my MX-800 and was thinking of buying a new MX-850 to get a center select button and correct that issue, but NO WAY am I going to pay twice (or more) for the dang thing just in order to get the software that I'm perfectly capable of using/programming myself. This is the proverbial last straw; I'm finally done with URC. Next remote I buy will be a Harmony.
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post #97 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodynamics
Considering all of the mud slinging aimed at URC, who's more unethical; a company trying to protect it's dealers or people like enemywithin?

If that's how you conduct yourself and do business, why do you think you deserve support?
I don't need any "support", I just want to latest software & updates. I programmed the remotes myself without any hand-holding from URC or any CI's. I didn't tie up the support lines, and I don't waste anyone's time on previously asked questions on any forums (and in this case, I didn't ask any questions as the remotes were dead simple to program).

What would I cost the dealer? I would pay for shipping to me. The retail box of the MX-850 isn't shrinked wrapped, so they would get the remote back in exactly the same condition they received it in (and I would pay for the return shipping as well). All it would cost them was the time to package and ship the remote. If URC sold direct, then I would buy it from them, but that's not an option.

Do I want to do that? No. Will I do that if it's the only way to get the new software? Yes. Is it absolutely ridiculous that I have to even consider doing such a thing? YES!

The fact is I have 3 MX-850's and I would like to keep them current. If URC feel the need to change their policy after my purchase, then I'll do what I is required to protect my investment. Maybe the authorized dealers can ask URC to make the software available again so they won't be subjected to this kind of a situation?

I would consider paying a small fee for the software (say $20), but why should I have to pay for something that was initially free? Even so, it would be easier to pay the $20 then deal with the return shipping. Any Authorized Dealers want to sell me a download account for $20? Will URC even let you?
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post #98 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzin
"So you have no sympathy for URC or for their lost sales that you speculate they will lose, does that mean one of their unsuspecting dealers should pay the price?"

Of course not.Niether the dealer nor the current owners of URC remotes should be suffering because of URC's decision.
Since this poorly designed policy is now in force,some current owners(not me BTW) are going to suffer.In light of your question above.do you think this is fair?
My suggestion is for consumers to have a good relationship with a dealer. There's something to be said for personal relationships and there are benefits to both parties. Most dealers are usually more than happy to help friends and clients. Today, business is too impersonal.

Also, URC is not leaving anyone "High & Dry". They have eliminated editor programs which are very costly to support. They have replaced the multitude of editing programs with a comprehensive software Suite. The new software Suite allows for the programming of any URC remote.

For all those complaining here, why don't you stop complaining and do something about it. Either get rid of your URC remotes, or obtain a copy of the new Universal Software Suite. Maybe, if you were friends with a dealer, they would be happy to set you up with the new software free of charge?
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post #99 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodynamics
Maybe, if you were friends with a dealer, they would be happy to set you up with the new software free of charge?
And how would that be different from sharing the file and listing links on this board?

Are you saying if someone on this board had the software that it would be ok to give it to someone else if that person is my friend? not just some anonymous eBay dealer?
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post #100 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 11:02 AM
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"For all those complaining here, why don't you stop complaining and do something about it. Either get rid of your URC remotes, or obtain a copy of the new Universal Software Suite."

I'd be happy to stop complaining.As soon as you stop complaining about us DIY'ers posts.

As to obtaining the new software.my dealer has gone belly up (last year),and my current dealer,whom I'm very friendly with,doesnt carry URC.Gee thats a big surprise,now I know why.
As to your other suggestion,we've been through this in another thread .Your responses lacked tack to say the least,did more harm then good to URC's image and made me thankful ,you arent my local dealer.

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post #101 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodynamics
Also, URC is not leaving anyone "High & Dry". They have eliminated editor programs which are very costly to support. They have replaced the multitude of editing programs with a comprehensive software Suite. The new software Suite allows for the programming of any URC remote.
You obviously never had the "priviledge" of buying one of their MX-1000's. Leaving their customers high and dry was exactly what they did when they abandoned support and software upgrades for that remote but continued to sell it for another 5 years, all the way up to the present. Oh, and by the way, they also continued to advertise it as being supported which, as I said above, was a bald-faced lie. It was flat-out disgusting behavior by URC and shows the contempt with which they view their end customers. This recent abandonment of anyone who wants to buy or sell a used remote or save a pile of money on a new one if they don't need custom programming/installation is just more of the same. :rolleyes:
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post #102 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 02:47 PM
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I was about to pull the trigger on a URC remote. Once I learned about their new policy, I decided I will most likely NOT buy one. I will now be looking at the Harmony line instead.

Why? Principle. Plain and simple. I do not wish to do business with a company that does business this way. And I'm willing to bet that I'm not alone in this regard.
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post #103 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundsGood
I was about to pull the trigger on a URC remote. Once I learned about their new policy, I decided I will most likely NOT buy one. I will now be looking at the Harmony line instead.

Why? Principle. Plain and simple. I do not wish to do business with a company that does business this way. And I'm willing to bet that I'm not alone in this regard.
Better yet.. get the remote from eBay. You'll get the same great remote and a great price. Plus since the remote is probably stolen from their warehouse, you'll know URC never saw a dime.

Never mind.. They won't care. they sold it to someone and already made their money..

:p
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post #104 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 05:51 PM
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I feel bad for the people taking it who have these products and are now taking it in the...you know where... But, my remote buying decision was just made a whoooole lot easier!

This just really makes no sense to me. If I'm Joe Schmo and hear that the MX-850 is great and that I need to get one...then go home and jump on the internet and google up MX-850 and it shows me an amazon.com link to buy it. I decide the Amazon price works for me and I buy it, only later to find out that I purchased from an "unauthorized dealer" and the company will not support its product.

So, anytime I am going to buy something, I need to verify that I am buying from an "authorized dealer"! In this day and age, this is asinine! So much for standing behind your product!
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post #105 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry78
This just really makes no sense to me. If I'm Joe Schmo and hear that the MX-850 is great and that I need to get one...then go home and jump on the internet and google up MX-850 and it shows me an amazon.com link to buy it. I decide the Amazon price works for me and I buy it, only later to find out that I purchased from an "unauthorized dealer" and the company will not support its product.
Bingo. The fact that we can't buy this product from Amazon.com or Buy.com or Costco is just nuts.
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post #106 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundsGood
Bingo. The fact that we can't buy this product from Amazon.com or Buy.com or Costco is just nuts.
But people, be reasonable! The reason you can buy it from Amazon.com,Buy.com or Costco is because URC has no way of tracking the source since all those companies stole the remotes and removed the serial number. URC is trying as hard as they can to stop this illegal activity. Granted, they aren't trying as hard as OJ to find the real killer, but almost that hard.
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post #107 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed M
But people, be reasonable! The reason you can buy it from Amazon.com,Buy.com or Costco is because URC has no way of tracking the source since all those companies stole the remotes and removed the serial number. URC is trying as hard as they can to stop this illegal activity. Granted, they aren't trying as hard as OJ to find the real killer, but almost that hard.
Has a real THEFT report been filed? has it made news in the past?

I'm basing much of my BS-flag-raising on the understanding that no such thing ever happened, and this is a wimpy excuse URC invented to justify aforementioned lack of intelligent marketing :) Willing to retract that (to some extent) if, in fact, thousands of MX remotes WERE indeed stolen and entered the ebay/black market channel.

Oh, and how do they explain cheap Costco, BestBuy, Amazon, Newegg sales prices? More stolen goods? Fie!

*ashu*
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post #108 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:38 PM
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Look at ebay! It is FULL of products that are being sold outside of manufacturers' realm of "Authorized dealers". Some companies are more active at eliminating the cause of this, but sometimes it is hard to do so. URC isnt the only company that is having these issues. And because they do something about it, they get bashed on.

I also dont think that that is the only or even the main reason they did this. Maybe they are trying to add value (not to be confused with price) to their latest and/or upcoming products. If it becomes something that is available exclusively through CIs or Authorized retailers, it becomes something different than something anyone can get for half price on ebay. Something that has added value to it....not just another retail box. Something leaning more towards the Crestron side of a Crestron/Harmony fence. Now that makes lots of sense to me from a business standpoint.
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post #109 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:49 PM
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Well actually they are not the only one to do so.

People that buy Cisco, Crestron, and AMX hardware (edit: off ebay) get zero support from the manufactures.

The difference is the comapnies don't sell their hardware at retail stores and very popular online stores.

You can't sell the remote at Best Buy with ads on the box saying you get the software and not include it. That is a law suit waiting to happen.
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post #110 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy
This recent abandonment of anyone who wants to buy or sell a used remote or save a pile of money on a new one if they don't need custom programming/installation is just more of the same. :rolleyes:
How do you figure this? I could sell you an MX850 for $350. If you wanted it programmed, lets say another $350. So your bill is $700. Oh.....you want to save money and program it yourself? Ok. I will cut the bill in half, and here is the software. Good day. :)

You saved 50% of what it would have been. I made a profit in the remote. You got a warranty, and a guarantee of continued service/support.

Oooohh.....I see....you want to pay $150? Well here is a URC-200. :)

As far as buying/selling used goods, it has always been an "as-is" playing field. Its a big risk...especially with electronics. You never know. If I were to sell a used remote that required software, I would be courteous enough to include said software, and hopefully anyone buying such a product would ask the seller to include the software and discuss it before making the purchase. Caution is the word when it comes to buying used electronics. Just my $.02.
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post #111 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ashutoshsm
Oh, and how do they explain cheap Costco, BestBuy, Amazon, Newegg sales prices? More stolen goods? Fie!
Come on, we all know Costco and Amazon only sell stolen goods. Its just a fact. I mean, why would URC lie to us about not being able to track the distribution? I hope Eric responds again. I always enjoy listening to an honest man.
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post #112 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OC-NightHawk
Well actually they are not the only one to do so.

People that buy Cisco, Crestron, and AMX hardware get zero support fromt he manufactures.

The difference is the comapnies don't sell their hardware at retail stores and very popular online stores.

You can't sell the remote at Best Buy with ads on the box saying you get the software and not include it. That is a law suit waiting to happen.
I imagine the new boxes will not say that the software is included. If they do, thats another story. But I cant think they would overlook something that obvious.

From what I can tell by reading, any of the places URC lists on their site, should be able to give the end user the software or access to it.
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post #113 of 508 Old 08-08-2006, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiophiliac
I imagine the new boxes will not say that the software is included. If they do, thats another story. But I cant think they would overlook something that obvious.

From what I can tell by reading, any of the places URC lists on their site, should be able to give the end user the software or access to it.
That's still a law suit waiting to happen if their is no disclaimer, because you're selling hardware that can't meet the specs listed because its still just a brick.

Quote:
As far as buying/selling used goods, it has always been an "as-is" playing field. Its a big risk...especially with electronics. You never know. If I were to sell a used remote that required software, I would be courteous enough to include said software, and hopefully anyone buying such a product would ask the seller to include the software and discuss it before making the purchase. Caution is the word when it comes to buying used electronics. Just my $.02.
Yes buying used or cheap is usually a risk; not without its occasional rewards. Always keep in mind, buyer beware.

Like the one person that was sold an xbox 360 box for hundreds over the retail of the actual unit, or the person that bought the picture for hundreds of dollars. =) ebay is a jungle.
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post #114 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 04:50 AM
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Me thinks Tony Soprano told Pauly Walnuts and Christopher to steal some URC remotes.
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post #115 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by OC-NightHawk
You can't sell the remote at Best Buy with ads on the box saying you get the software and not include it.
Exactly. It just so happens I did some research on this unit, so I found out about this crazy new policy *before* buying a URC remote (and now I probably won't be getting one). But millions of consumers do NOT do in-depth research on online A/V forums. They learn about a product, then buy it. Some buy on impulse, and others seek out a better price on Amazon.com, Buy.com, Costco -- or even eBay (shock!). Those consumers would buy the unit, only to discover that they can't get the software. Sorry, guys, but that is just ridiculous.

This is a silly policy, period. Not to mention a bad business decision, in my opinion.
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post #116 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 06:54 AM
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Some of this will solve itself.
Those folks buying URC remotes from Costco,Best Buys,Amazon,etc,will return the product(no software,cant be programmed).When the amount of returns becomes a flood,places like Costco,Best Buy will pull the items from their stores and return them to the vender.Large retail chains have a returns vs items sold ratio.Once that is reached the item is pulled.

The amount of pulled items from these nationwide stores,could be staggering.No company,running a smart business model,would be willing to for go that kind of revenue.

One month from now,I wouldnt want to be URC's CEO.

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post #117 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundsGood
Exactly. It just so happens I did some research on this unit, so I found out about this crazy new policy *before* buying a URC remote (and now I probably won't be getting one). But millions of consumers do NOT do in-depth research on online A/V forums. They learn about a product, then buy it. Some buy on impulse, and others seek out a better price on Amazon.com, Buy.com, Costco -- or even eBay (shock!). Those consumers would buy the unit, only to discover that they can't get the software. Sorry, guys, but that is just ridiculous.

This is a silly policy, period. Not to mention a bad business decision, in my opinion.
You know what? Thats the SAME situation you are in if you buy anything in that manner. If you buy on impluse, and without doing any research, you dont know what you are getting into period. Whether its a URC remote, a cool Crestron touchpanel, a Nevo SL, an RTI-T3, etc....anything.....

If you dont know what you are getting yourself into, then how would you expect the remote to include software in the first place?
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post #118 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzin
Some of this will solve itself.
Those folks buying URC remotes from Costco,Best Buys,Amazon,etc,will return the product(no software,cant be programmed).When the amount of returns becomes a flood,places like Costco,Best Buy will pull the items from their stores and return them to the vender.Large retail chains have a returns vs items sold ratio.Once that is reached the item is pulled.

The amount of pulled items from these nationwide stores,could be staggering.No company,running a smart business model,would be willing to for go that kind of revenue.

One month from now,I wouldnt want to be URC's CEO.
Actually, maybe this is a way to weed out some of the places that arent on the Authorized list. If all the unauthorized dealers drop URC because of returns and lack of sales, then URC has done its job to protect its product distribution and dealer structure.

I imagine the MX line of remotes is a small department of URC's total revenue. They probably OEM many more remotes than they sell under their own name. Hell, some of the remotes you currently own for your other equipment might be manufactured by URC!! You better run and check them all....wouldnt want to be caught using one of those.
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post #119 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophiliac
You know what? Thats the SAME situation you are in if you buy anything in that manner. If you buy on impluse, and without doing any research, you dont know what you are getting into period. Whether its a URC remote, a cool Crestron touchpanel, a Nevo SL, an RTI-T3, etc....anything.....

If you dont know what you are getting yourself into, then how would you expect the remote to include software in the first place?
Oh, please. Buying a remote from NewEgg (who, BTW, still carries the remote and advertises it as *in stock*) is not like buying from Nick ShadySeller in a dark alleyway at midnight. They are as reputable as an e-tailer gets. As far as software being included, I think we can agree URC is not exactly a household name. Whatever led them to that e-tailer to buy that remote is the same info that led them to know they should have the software in hand before proceeding. That was my situation almost two years ago. Now URC pulls the rug under all those customers. If you don't have the install file for the editor (it becomes corrupted or you change computers) you are gonna be outta luck. I know what I've done is perfectly legal. On the other hand, what they are doing may very well not be.
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post #120 of 508 Old 08-09-2006, 07:43 AM
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"I imagine the MX line of remotes is a small department of URC's total revenue. They probably OEM many more remotes than they sell under their own name. "

Your kidding,right?
The amount of remotes sold through large national chains like Costco,Best Buys,small?

You obviously have on idea how much business large chains do.Its a dollar volume that is amazing to say the least.Any company willing to lose that amount of business is not a company ANY smart investor would put money into.

"Hell, some of the remotes you currently own for your other equipment might be manufactured by URC!! You better run and check them all....wouldnt want to be caught using one of those"

Consider it done.My new pronto remote for my bedroom HT,and my RTI remote(purchased through my local CI,BTW) for my main HT,have never seen the inside of a URC factory and never will.
I forgot to mention,I'm very very thankful ,you with your snide attitude arent my local CI.Others have mentioned your attitude in this and the other URC thread,yet you continue to show your true colors.

Cruzin

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