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post #91 of 199 Old 01-24-2007, 11:16 AM
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post #92 of 199 Old 02-02-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

The fact is that URC is making headway in achieving a stated goal, to combat grey market sales.

Please clarify something for me. Where are the grey market dealers getting their stock? Are they hijacking the delivery trucks? Breaking into the factory at night?

$300 HDMI cables? P.T. Barnum would have been proud.
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post #93 of 199 Old 02-05-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Gardner View Post

Please clarify something for me. Where are the grey market dealers getting their stock? Are they hijacking the delivery trucks? Breaking into the factory at night?

I'd like to know that too; I hardly believe that Amazon and Newegg are purchasing from the back of truck.
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post #94 of 199 Old 02-06-2007, 07:38 AM
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post #95 of 199 Old 02-11-2007, 10:31 AM
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This policy is just baffling, and yes I have read the thread.

I can understand no warranty unless sold through an authorized dealer. Although I don't understand how Amazon, and other high profile resellers don't count as authorized dealers. What is URC saying, that Amazon is stealing their remotes from a warehouse in the middle of the night? Come on, the responsibility for controlling distribution falls squarely on URC. If they don't want somebody to sell their product then don't supply them with it.

As for the secondary market it's pretty lame to deny them the software. I wouldn't expect any kind of support from URC unless the remote is still under warranty, but the least they could do is make the software available. And no, I don't consider their offer of neutered software acceptable. I certainly wouldn't expect them to help me program the remote or provide any other kind of support.

All this will do is drive the price of their remotes even lower on the secondary and gray market. I'm still going to buy a MX-850, but I absolutely will not buy one retail from an authorized seller. Not because of price, at this point I simply will not support a company with policies like this. I managed to find a copy of the MX-850 software that has live update enable. So I'm ok with buying that remote now, but I won't give my money to URC. I'll buy second hand.
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post #96 of 199 Old 02-12-2007, 07:23 AM
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While I'm in 100% agreement that this new "policy" is total BS, I just got off the phone with customer service and they were very good to deal with. I received the new software within minutes and am back in business. FWIW, I did purchase my remote online from an authorized dealer and when I registered it I got the "unupgradeable" version.

I've seen several other companies go a similar route as URC and they either regretted it and reversed the policy or went out of business. We'll see what route URC chooses. The way I see it, URC has shot themselves in the foot. They have failed to realize that most of the remotes sold are to average guys like us...not the CI's. Arrogance and greed never help a company excel.
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post #97 of 199 Old 02-13-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimdeath View Post

I'd like to know that too; I hardly believe that Amazon and Newegg are purchasing from the back of truck.

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?
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post #98 of 199 Old 02-13-2007, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bregar_a320 View Post

I've seen several other companies go a similar route as URC and they either regretted it and reversed the policy or went out of business.

Like who? Anybody in the consumer electronics industry?
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post #99 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 09:53 AM
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I can't think of anyone in the electronics industry off the top of my head.

Clearly from all the negative responses posted here and on other forums, URC has stepped on it and I'm confident they are aware of the implications of their short sightedness.
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post #100 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

Not entirely true; some items are actually sold by Amazon.com, while others are through other retailers. It it very easy to tell which is which.
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post #101 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

It shouldn't matter where you buy the product from. The product is what it is regardless of what store sells it to you. URC is getting their money either way and the consumer is then able to get a fair market price for the product. This "authorized" dealer BS is just another way to justify higher prices.


The origin of the games is coming from the manufacturer. The manufacturer should honor the support and warranty regardless of where the product was bought. The way many of us see it is that this is a loop hole for the manufacturer to avoid supporting their product.......because support and warranty issues cost the company money in the long run. And after all......isn't that what this is all about?
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post #102 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 01:10 PM
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[quote=Grimdeath] Not entirely true; some items are actually sold by Amazon.com, while others are through other retailers. It it very easy to tell which is which. [/QUOTE

Yes, Amazon sells many items, like books and CD's. They don't sell any URC remotes.
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post #103 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bregar_a320 View Post

It shouldn't matter where you buy the product from. The product is what it is regardless of what store sells it to you. URC is getting their money either way and the consumer is then able to get a fair market price for the product. This "authorized" dealer BS is just another way to justify higher prices.

This is a prevalent mindset. The funny thing is that this logic wouldn't hold true if you bought the remotes from the back of a car at a flea market. Somehow, since it's from an online vendor, it has the caste of validity.

Additionally bregar, you think that 'fair market' is the price that the lowest low baller on ebay offers, and it seems that all other vendors should offer the product at this price, including AD's that offer higher levels of support and custom CI's.

It's clear to me that you can't see the difference in the markets.
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post #104 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimdeath View Post

Not entirely true; some items are actually sold by Amazon.com, while others are through other retailers. It it very easy to tell which is which.

Yes, Amazon sells many items, like books and CD's. They don't sell any URC remotes.


I really hate responding to you but I can't stand when people don't even bother to see if what they are saying is based on fact.

Amazon does offer Universal Remotes direct(FROM AMAZON.COM):
Amazon Order Options for MX-700

You can order directly from Amazon or Ritz Camera from the Amazon site. Not quite the equivilant of the back of a truck on the side of the road. What URC did is not illeagal, but it was stupid, and it does hurt URC because it has allianated a large group of do-it your-selfers who don't want to pay some one like you to come set up there remote control.

I purchased my remote from Newegg. I was very glad when someone recently posted a link to the unlocked software. I was a big fan of URC until this new policy. I no longer recommend them to my friends and family because of this policy, and apparently URC is completely fine with that.
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post #105 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

All of us are well aware of the issue, but we're in the minority. What about the casual shopper that hears about the remote and buys it from the first place they find? How are they supposed to know about all this "authorized dealer" crap? They go to a major website, buy the product in new condition, and then come to find out that they have no warranty, no software, and no support. That's just nuts.
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post #106 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBig View Post

I really hate responding to you but I can't stand when people don't even bother to see if what they are saying is based on fact.

Amazon does offer Universal Remotes direct(FROM AMAZON.COM):
Amazon Order Options for MX-700

You can order directly from Amazon or Ritz Camera from the Amazon site.

Then you shouldn't reply because when you click on the link you supplied, Amazon lists all of the "Sellers." Amazon doesn't sell any remotes, the "Sellers" in your link do. Check your facts or don't reply to my posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBig View Post

What URC did is not illeagal, but it was stupid, and it does hurt URC because it has allianated a large group of do-it your-selfers who don't want to pay some one like you to come set up there remote control.

You don't have to, nor am I trying to force you to. But, you can buy from an AD, for a similar price as the grey marketeers. But don't compare what I offer to what the ebay (or Amazon sellers) offer. That mistake is made way too often.
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post #107 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

Then you shouldn't reply because when you click on the link you supplied, Amazon lists all of the "Sellers." Amazon doesn't sell any remotes, the "Sellers" in your link do. Check your facts or don't reply to my posts.

Uh, if you were to read the list you would see "Amazon" as a seller and "Fullfilled by Amazon" in the description.
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post #108 of 199 Old 02-14-2007, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Grimdeath View Post

Uh, if you were to read the list you would see "Amazon" as a seller and "Fullfilled by Amazon" in the description.

Thank you, now I don't have to respond to the lil papa
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post #109 of 199 Old 02-15-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Grimdeath View Post

Uh, if you were to read the list you would see "Amazon" as a seller and "Fullfilled by Amazon" in the description.

I did read it. 9 out of the 10 sellers aren't Amazon.

So, you're 10% correct, and I'm only 90% correct. Or are you?

"Amazon also handles all customer service and product returns for "Fulfilled by Amazon" items."

If they were the vender of the product, why would they make such a clarification statement?
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post #110 of 199 Old 02-15-2007, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

. But don't compare what I offer to what the ebay (or Amazon sellers) offer. That mistake is made way too often.

Exactly what do you offer that makes it a bad idea to buy from someone else?
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post #111 of 199 Old 02-15-2007, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

This is a prevalent mindset. The funny thing is that this logic wouldn't hold true if you bought the remotes from the back of a car at a flea market. Somehow, since it's from an online vendor, it has the caste of validity.

Additionally bregar, you think that 'fair market' is the price that the lowest low baller on ebay offers, and it seems that all other vendors should offer the product at this price, including AD's that offer higher levels of support and custom CI's.

It's clear to me that you can't see the difference in the markets.

What difference does it make as to who you buy it from. It is supposed to be the same product regardless of the vendor....right?

Fair market price is the price that the market will bear. If you happen to be higher then the other retailers, then you will sell less. If the opposite is true and you have a low price, you will sell more than you would have if you have the highest price. It is simple economics.

How much friggin support do you provide for a remote?

Better yet, ask the members of this forum how much support the received or needed on their remotes.
95% of the people that bought these remotes were savvy enough to program them on their own and never looked back at the vendor they bought their remotes from. The other 5% either got in over their heads with the programming (which then you let them know that for an additional fee you'll program it for them) or had some sort of mechanical problem.
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post #112 of 199 Old 02-15-2007, 08:48 PM
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Look guys, the URC policy has generated thousands of posts both here and at Remote Central. If you didn't do YOUR homework before buying then you're screwed. Get over it. URC IS NOT going to change their policy. They DO NOT care if you like them or not! So quit your bitchin. It isn't going to change anything.

Mike

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post #113 of 199 Old 02-15-2007, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bregar_a320 View Post

Exactly what do you offer that makes it a bad idea to buy from someone else?

Me!
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post #114 of 199 Old 02-15-2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bregar_a320 View Post

What difference does it make as to who you buy it from. It is supposed to be the same product regardless of the vendor....right?

It's the same part. It's not the same product. If I have to explain the difference between what an ebay/Amazon vendor offers, an online AD offers (a decent one), and what a CI offers, then you'll likely never understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bregar_a320 View Post

Fair market price is the price that the market will bear. If you happen to be higher then the other retailers, then you will sell less. If the opposite is true and you have a low price, you will sell more than you would have if you have the highest price. It is simple economics.

Yes, I get all that consumerific free market stuff and have drank that koolaid. The difference is that I should be competing with other CI's, and AD's should be competing with AD's. And, well, grey marketers should be shut out. But, somehow I'm expected to compete with them. Don't you find that a little out of whack?

Better yet, ask the members of this forum how much support the received or needed on their remotes.
95% of the people that bought these remotes were savvy enough to program them on their own and never looked back at the vendor they bought their remotes from. The other 5% either got in over their heads with the programming (which then you let them know that for an additional fee you'll program it for them) or had some sort of mechanical problem.[/quote]

I don't need to ask, all I have to do is peruse these forums to realize that many hobbyists here ask very simple questions and obviously aren't as saavy as you think you are. Most people do get their remotes programmed, but it's not a quickie out of the box. Manufacturers realize this and compartmentalize their tech support to deal with all the simple questions.

95% is wishful thinking.
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post #115 of 199 Old 02-16-2007, 06:39 AM
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post #116 of 199 Old 02-16-2007, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post

It's the same part. It's not the same product. If I have to explain the difference between what an ebay/Amazon vendor offers, an online AD offers (a decent one), and what a CI offers, then you'll likely never understand.

The hardware is identical, but what differs if what you get as part of a total package. Some of the eBay dealers don't give you the software with the remote, but some do, so one can't generalize. Even some ADs won't give you the software, even big ones (Magnolia is rumored to remove the programming cable from the box as well as not supplying the software), so you can't generalize there either.

Most CIs offer programming services for these remotes that vary in quality from excellent to abysmally poor. You pay your money and take your chances. I myself find the software easy to use and would expect that almost anyone with a technical background would also have no trouble programming them.

$300 HDMI cables? P.T. Barnum would have been proud.
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post #117 of 199 Old 02-16-2007, 10:50 AM
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I agree.

I think bigpapa is just trying to justify charging what he charges (which he knows is high) for his remotes.
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post #118 of 199 Old 02-16-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bregar_a320 View Post

I agree.

I think bigpapa is just trying to justify charging what he charges (which he knows is high) for his remotes.

You can by a home PC with tech support for less money than a URC at AD prices.
The mark-up on these products are incredible; you can buy NIB on ebay for $300+ less than AD prices and you know they are still making a profit on the sale.
There is nothing an AD (or bigPapa) could offer me for $300 more, let alone $5.
In addition, there are no technical issues that community members here and on remotecentral.com could/would not answer for anyone in need of help (these remotes really are not complicated).
An AD is nothing more than a broker of an unnecessary service (and, if you're like me, why pay the broker for something you can do yourself).
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post #119 of 199 Old 02-16-2007, 02:35 PM
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I don't care how high or how low BigPapa charges. If someone finds his services worthwhile thats just fine.

What I don't understand is what is his beef if URC makes the software available like they used to and why he doesn't supprt it.

I have a MX500 that I programmed myself - it took some time and I enjoyed every minute doing it. I am in the market for a replacement remote and an additional new one. As much as I prefer URC over Harmony it looks like I may end going with Harmony.

Increduously, URC loves ADs and CIs and BigPapas - perhaps they are making more money this way. Final chapter has not been written. We will see.
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post #120 of 199 Old 02-16-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SureshT View Post

I don't care how high or how low BigPapa charges. If someone finds his services worthwhile thats just fine.

I only care because they want to force you to use him/them. If there are people who do use them, cater to them (this pool of "challenged" individuals is unlikely to change). This pool is probably very small and the ADs have nothing to offer the greater, more knowledgable population to get their sales from them. Well, apparently they've gotten sick of it enough to force URC to change its policy to only supply the software through the AD's. They know they have nothing/can never offer you anything more; however, they can extort it from you now.
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