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post #1 of 38 Old 09-01-2013, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Good evening all - I received a ton of priceless info and recommendations when I bought my Samsung 67A750 back in 2006 so I'm hoping this will come through for me again smile.gif

By now everyone knows that the next-gen game systems will arrive this November, and I've currently settled on a PS4. I'm also looking to get a new TV for the PS4 but I'm torn between LCD and Plasma. I'm hoping I can get some recommendations! I'd like to be 60-inches or higher, and do not want to spend more than $3500. I'm not interested in any of the 4K stuff at the moment since it will be quite some time before any 4K media becomes readily available in the US. The TV will also be used for watching movies and a small amount of TV programming.

So there's my question(s) - Should I go LCD or Plasma? Best contenders on each side in the 60+-inch range? I've read awesome things about the VT60 series from Panasonic, and I know that both Sony and Samsung are hot on their heels. I would appreciate any/all recommendations and thoughts!
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post #2 of 38 Old 09-02-2013, 12:24 AM
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Im in the exact same boat. Its the reason i was looking on this website to begin with. I want to build a decent gaming station for my ps4. Looking to get a 65 inch tv, and a 7.1 surround sound system. As far as tvs go, i was about to purchase the following:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+65%26%2334%3B+Class+(64-1/2%26%2334%3B+Diag.)+-+LED+-+1080p+-+120Hz+-+Smart+-+HDTV/8815227.p?id=1218901329523&skuId=8815227

However, before buying, i noticed some of the reviews mention some lag. Thats when i started researching more, and realized i really know nothing. I keep reading that plasma tvs are the best for gaming. not sure in what to do.
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post #3 of 38 Old 09-02-2013, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonJedi View Post

Good evening all - I received a ton of priceless info and recommendations when I bought my Samsung 67A750 back in 2006 so I'm hoping this will come through for me again smile.gif

By now everyone knows that the next-gen game systems will arrive this November, and I've currently settled on a PS4. I'm also looking to get a new TV for the PS4 but I'm torn between LCD and Plasma. I'm hoping I can get some recommendations! I'd like to be 60-inches or higher, and do not want to spend more than $3500. I'm not interested in any of the 4K stuff at the moment since it will be quite some time before any 4K media becomes readily available in the US. The TV will also be used for watching movies and a small amount of TV programming.

So there's my question(s) - Should I go LCD or Plasma? Best contenders on each side in the 60+-inch range? I've read awesome things about the VT60 series from Panasonic, and I know that both Sony and Samsung are hot on their heels. I would appreciate any/all recommendations and thoughts!

 

Plasma for sure, and the VT60 would be my pick.


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post #4 of 38 Old 09-02-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonJedi View Post

Good evening all - I received a ton of priceless info and recommendations when I bought my Samsung 67A750 back in 2006 so I'm hoping this will come through for me again smile.gif

By now everyone knows that the next-gen game systems will arrive this November, and I've currently settled on a PS4. I'm also looking to get a new TV for the PS4 but I'm torn between LCD and Plasma. I'm hoping I can get some recommendations! I'd like to be 60-inches or higher, and do not want to spend more than $3500. I'm not interested in any of the 4K stuff at the moment since it will be quite some time before any 4K media becomes readily available in the US. The TV will also be used for watching movies and a small amount of TV programming.

So there's my question(s) - Should I go LCD or Plasma? Best contenders on each side in the 60+-inch range? I've read awesome things about the VT60 series from Panasonic, and I know that both Sony and Samsung are hot on their heels. I would appreciate any/all recommendations and thoughts!

Ooook, I gotta chime in here and give you my 2 cents from personal experience. So, I bought a 5 series Samsung Plasma about 2 years ago this coming winter, and used t solely for gaming and movies. GREAT picture and now that in even have a 65" flagship LED (UN65F8000) I can see the difference in color vibrancy but your eyes will adjust and it won't be like comparing them side by side after a short period.

I play Planetside 2 on my PC which was plugged into my tv via my AVR, and even with the pixel shifting, and opacity of a HUD, I still managed to get image retention from the HUD burned into my screen. So beware that if you're gonna be hardcore gaming 6-8 hours straight, your decision might be a no brainer. I was solely disappointed in this since I did the grey bar scrolling and such and it still didn't go away.

I can tell you, however, that the UN65F8000 is spectacular to game on with next to no input lag in game mode. Planetside 2 is a fast paced game (depending on play style of course).

Hope this helps! And don't get me wrong, I LOVE plasma, but the risk of burn in still isn't eliminated.
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post #5 of 38 Old 09-06-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your replies! I've heard the VT60's are absolutely gorgeous, I'm hoping to get out to Nebraska Furniture Mart this weekend to take a look and get a preview of the damage it's going to do to my bank account...lol

bd2003 - do you know when new TV models are generally released? Are they scattered throughout the year or do most manufacturers generally release them in the same time frame? Is burn in/image retention still as big of an issue as people claim? I stayed away from plasma back in 2005/2006 when I bought my Samsung 67A750 because the burn-in fear was still pretty rampant; and haven't done a ton of research lately.
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post #6 of 38 Old 09-06-2013, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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After some further reading, I've kind of narrowed down my choices to either the Samsung F8500 or the Panasonic VT60 - can anyone provide some recommendations on which would be best suited for gaming and movie watching? A lot of the reviews have them virtually tied or edging one over the other by a very slim margin, so I'm having a tough time deciding which to go with. I've never owned a Panasonic product, and I currently have a Samsung 67A750 which I love (but it's showing its age) so I guess I have a bit of brand loyalty to Samsung... any thoughts?
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post #7 of 38 Old 09-06-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonJedi View Post

Thanks everyone for your replies! I've heard the VT60's are absolutely gorgeous, I'm hoping to get out to Nebraska Furniture Mart this weekend to take a look and get a preview of the damage it's going to do to my bank account...lol

bd2003 - do you know when new TV models are generally released? Are they scattered throughout the year or do most manufacturers generally release them in the same time frame? Is burn in/image retention still as big of an issue as people claim? I stayed away from plasma back in 2005/2006 when I bought my Samsung 67A750 because the burn-in fear was still pretty rampant; and haven't done a ton of research lately.

Usually march-june or so, but I don't really follow it too closely. For Panasonic at least, this years models are all already out.

I've got an ST30, IR isn't really noticeable. Burn in is only an issue if you're going to leave the same thing on the screen for days or weeks....supposedly. I've never seen it actually happen to anyone.

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post #8 of 38 Old 09-06-2013, 08:18 AM
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I've owned a Samsung crt back in the early 00s, and had a C8000 plasma a couple of years ago. And they were easily the worst TVs Ive ever owned. The C8000 had tons of firmware bugs, terrible black levels and really bad IR. I got so fed up with it that I sold it after like 3-4 months and bought an st30, and I couldn't be happier.

It's too bad, because the st60 would be the perfect gaming TV if not for the input lag.

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post #9 of 38 Old 09-07-2013, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Im standing here in NFM, looking at a VT60 and F8500 side by side. The Sammy looks like the image quality is a bit better, but the Panny seems to handle fast motion a lot better. I'm torn between the 2... The F8500 is $2899 and the VT60 is $2680

I know that floor models aren't typically calibrated and are set for the most eye appealing settings, but as far as i know they've used the THX discs to calibrate both sets for comparisons. I'd appreciate any info or recommendations! I've got a bit of brand loyalty as I mentioned as I love my Samsung A750, and I've also heard as recently as June that Panasonic may be exiting the plasma/TV business altogether, which makes me lean even a little more to the F8500... What do you all think?
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post #10 of 38 Old 09-15-2013, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonJedi View Post

I'm torn between the 2... The F8500 is $2899 and the VT60 is $2680

OP: Have you made a decision, or is there any update to this?

I'm in the same boat - thinking about a new TV in the 60" to 75" range. Would love to get plasma (probably 65" VT60), but for every person that says IR and/or burn-in is a thing of the past or overstated, another says they followed all the advice to prevent IR and still got it - some permanently. I read this article and the comments below it, and then this one + comments.... and am completely confused who to believe. Yet I don't want flashlighting, uneven lighting, bad viewing angles, and need low input lag. frown.gif

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post #11 of 38 Old 09-15-2013, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I have not made a decision yet - I'm closing on a new home at the end of the month, and it will likely be mid-October early November before I pull the trigger on this (my new home will have the capability for me to mount a plasma over the fireplace). I was at Nebraska Furniture Mart again yesterday looking at furniture and decided to take another look at the 2 TVs... the VT60 is still right around $2700 where the F8500 has jumped to $3100 in the span of a couple weeks. Not sure what the rationale is behind that.

The NFM guy I spoke with last week said that for gaming and movies he'd go with the VT60 - I don't care a whole lot for the large-ish black bezel around the F8500, but that's just aesthetics. I haven't been able to gather enough info to make a solid decision yet. If you happen to pull the trigger on either one of them, I'd love to hear the results when you get it home.

The F8500 having 4 HDMI connections versus 3 on the VT gives another point to the Samsung, but I could live without the additional HDMI if it meant superior picture quality and performance with gaming. Sorry that isn't a lot of help to you, hopefully some more people will chime in on the thread over the coming days since we're edging closer to the PS4 release date.
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post #12 of 38 Old 09-15-2013, 09:33 PM
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I just checked the lag on the 8500, and it's not great - 56-68ms. That's ok for casual games, but I think that might be too much lag for fast action or tight-reflex games. The VT-60 has 47.9ms.

In terms of low lag for gaming, the better Samsung choice is the 6400 (39ms), and it's a lot cheaper. BUT, it's not plasma, so it's not going to look as good as the 8500.

A couple Sony LED TVs are on my radar to avoid any worry about IR:
  • Last year's HX950 used Gorilla glass, has good reviews, but not sure about the lag. This thread claims 42ms.
  • This year's 550A comes in a huge 70" version, is CHEAP, and has very good lag (36ms), but not sure about the PQ.

I would be easier if there was a low-lag large-screen TV with excellent PQ and zero chance of IR. If we're dreaming, might as well make it cheap. tongue.gif

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post #13 of 38 Old 09-16-2013, 03:33 AM
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Ive been gaming on an st30 for years now. If burn in was going to be an issue, I think I'd have seen it by now.

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post #14 of 38 Old 09-19-2013, 10:58 AM
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Chiming in here as a gamer. I'm also potentially looking for an excellent TV for PS4.

I also have some perspective on the 60F8500 as well as a brief history of my other TVs. Hopefully my experiences will add to the conversation. I game a lot and plan to lose my free time in Battlefield 4 at launch so I really want to get this right.

Samsung 60F8500 - June 2013 , This is a seriously impressive TV but I have my worries about the motion processing. I have a PS3 directly connected to the TV with Game Mode setting dialed in running and GTA V and I'm very aggravated by motion blur. There's zero motion processing on at all because game mode defeats any help that the TV can provide with motion. I see this as a big problem, actually. Apart from the very noticeable and immediate IR that I'm seeing (worried about future burn-in) I now have to worry about motion blurring crap. Battlefield 3 on my Xbox 360 seemed to run okay in PC mode but, I never realized how blurry the fast panning is with this TV before. GTA V really shows it off because it actually makes it difficult to play at times because you can't see what's happening in the game (road signs and other movements tear apart. The game still looks gorgeous overall, but the poor motion processing (which shouldn't really be present on a plasma) makes it hard for me to imagine that this TV will render PS4's high frame rate action any better. Obviously my game performance is largely dependent on current gen console performance and their ability to pleasingly render graphics quickly. However, the fact that this TV can offer absolutely no help whatsoever to alleviate blur or motion problems makes me take pause. Blu-Ray 24p performance is not all that great compared to the GT50 either.

TL;DR: F8500 looks beautiful overall but I have my concerns about burn-in potential since I'm witnessing some IR already. More importantly I feel that the motion processing is not up to the job due to Game Mode or PC mode being absolutely essential to a viable gaming solution. I don't recall seeing blurring this bad on my GT50 (played lots of AC3 and BF3) Exploring other options.


My brief history of former TVs

PN58C8000 2010 - Samsung's top tier plasma that year. Played lots of battlefield bad Company 2 that year on my 360. Game mode introduced a strange graphical anomaly which never got rectified. There was pretty aggressive banding that year and I swear I saw a massive slightly greenish blob that covered a large portion of the screen if it was an all white field. I ultimately flipped it after 8 months for the D Series when it was available. No burn in or IR.

PN64D7000 2011- I went down a step in 2011 because general consensus felt the 7000s and 8000s performed nearly identically that year and I hated that god-awful claw foot that they slapped on the D8000. The D7000 performed very well although the dimness of the panel was pretty disappointing. I gave this to my mother for her renovated condo and stepped out of big screens for several months. No burn in or IR, only horizontal banding during commercials etc.

Panasonic 65GT50 - Bought from BestBuy July '12, important because I got the BB Protection program. The GT50 looked absolutely fabulous when I tweaked it. I gamed on it and it was responsive and fluid. However, I had to get best buy to credit me my money back for severe burn in after several months of gaming. Oddly enough only a small component of my BF3 HUD actually was etched in but this was extremely stubborn and lasted months. Best Buy credited me in March 2013

Samsung 60ES8000 (LED) - 2013 (open box from best Buy) This TV was hard for me to cope with because the uniformity issues bothered me when I wasn't gaming, oddly enough. The Game Mode's picture settings were very hard to adjust to my liking and it didn't more than 3 months. I got the 60F8500



Apologies for my ramblings. Ask me any questions you might have.
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post #15 of 38 Old 09-19-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate the feedback DanBook! I plan on playing some first person shooters as well, but only for single player. It doesn't bode well that the F8500 doesn't appear to handle fast motion well with GTA V, and I would be hesitant to classify GTA V as a really fast-paced game (when compared to strictly racing games and first person shooters) so that certainly makes the problem sound bad.


As I mentioned above, my local Nebraska Furniture Mart has both of these TV's setup side by side for comparison purposes (both the 60 inch and the 64 inch) and even the sales rep said that while the F8500 may slightly edge out the VT60 on image quality and brightness, the VT60 wins easily as far as motion processing is concerned. Despite my brand loyalty to Samsung (I love my 67-inch A750 LED DLP, and it has served me ever so faithfully smile.gif ) I may have to go with the VT60... ugh, I hate these decisions...lol I don't plan on purchasing until right before the PS4 launch anyway, so I have some time to think and continue gathering information. If anyone else has any input/recommendations/experience it would be immensely appreciated!
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post #16 of 38 Old 09-19-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalcyonJedi View Post

I appreciate the feedback DanBook! I plan on playing some first person shooters as well, but only for single player. It doesn't bode well that the F8500 doesn't appear to handle fast motion well with GTA V, and I would be hesitant to classify GTA V as a really fast-paced game (when compared to strictly racing games and first person shooters) so that certainly makes the problem sound bad.


As I mentioned above, my local Nebraska Furniture Mart has both of these TV's setup side by side for comparison purposes (both the 60 inch and the 64 inch) and even the sales rep said that while the F8500 may slightly edge out the VT60 on image quality and brightness, the VT60 wins easily as far as motion processing is concerned. Despite my brand loyalty to Samsung (I love my 67-inch A750 LED DLP, and it has served me ever so faithfully smile.gif ) I may have to go with the VT60... ugh, I hate these decisions...lol I don't plan on purchasing until right before the PS4 launch anyway, so I have some time to think and continue gathering information. If anyone else has any input/recommendations/experience it would be immensely appreciated!

I should point out that my Battlefield 3 experiences were fine on the TV. For whatever reason, PC Mode with sharpness at 35 (don't ask why) and Picture mode set to Entertain (a PC Mode only setting) looked really great and BF3 ran pretty well like that for gaming purposes. it wasn't until I took a closer look that I noticed the blurring was there.

GTA V has blurring that's readily apparent.

GTA isn't by nature a "fast paced" game, however, the manner in which the player whips the camera around to focus on the action can show the flaws pretty easily.

A lot of the problem, as someone noted earlier, is the PS3/360 graphics bottleneck. The games just can't be rendered any better than they already are.

I'm concerned that the PS4 looks different/better on one technology over another and that i'll be on the wrong side of the fence. I'm really looking forward to upgrading my graphical enjoyment of my games so hopefully this is possible.

The F8500 is a wonderful TV and it has no trouble with lag in Game Mode. San Andreas looks wonderful... as long as the camera isn't moving...
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post #17 of 38 Old 09-23-2013, 09:15 AM
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Just an update:

I played a lot of GTA this weekend in 4-5 hour sessions.

While there was a lot of IR at times with my 60F8500, I have yet to see anything resembling permanent burn-in.
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post #18 of 38 Old 09-23-2013, 09:18 AM
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Just an update:

I played a lot of GTA this weekend in 4-5 hour sessions.

While there was a lot of IR at times with my 60F8500, I have yet to see anything resembling permanent burn-in.

Where did you notice the IR? I played 20 something hours over the weekend as well, didn't notice any at all on my ST30, even on the full black loading screens.

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post #19 of 38 Old 09-23-2013, 10:21 AM
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Where did you notice the IR? I played 20 something hours over the weekend as well, didn't notice any at all on my ST30, even on the full black loading screens.

1) Pause the game at any point when it's daylight out.
2) wait a minute or two (typical bio-break pause time)
3) Unpause and observe the prominent outline of the map ghosted onto your screen overlaying the pale blue sky. it will last on average 30-45 seconds (very often more)


Literally, 100% of the time this will happen on my 60f8500. This is the most readily reproducible example.

More examples:

Any time the game starts up and would flash the stills of the various characters in the load screen, whichever frame was last would leave a very distinct imprint on the dark screen that followed and would persist for half a minute or so.

Like I said, nothing permanent (yet) but I'm uneasy...very uneasy...
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post #20 of 38 Old 09-25-2013, 10:38 AM
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So beware that if you're gonna be hardcore gaming 6-8 hours straight, your decision might be a no brainer. PN64D7000 2011- I went down a step in 2011 because general consensus felt the 7000s and 8000s performed nearly identically that year and I hated that god-awful claw foot that they slapped on the D8000. The D7000 performed very well although the dimness of the panel was pretty disappointing.ijhg9R

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post #21 of 38 Old 09-25-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBook Pro View Post

1) Pause the game at any point when it's daylight out.
2) wait a minute or two (typical bio-break pause time)
3) Unpause and observe the prominent outline of the map ghosted onto your screen overlaying the pale blue sky. it will last on average 30-45 seconds (very often more)


Literally, 100% of the time this will happen on my 60f8500. This is the most readily reproducible example.

More examples:

Any time the game starts up and would flash the stills of the various characters in the load screen, whichever frame was last would leave a very distinct imprint on the dark screen that followed and would persist for half a minute or so.

Like I said, nothing permanent (yet) but I'm uneasy...very uneasy...

I haven't noticed anything near that severity. Last night I left it on the pause screen for a solid hour or so by accident, when I came back there was a faint outline for a minute or two.

I remember having the kind of severe IR issues you describe on the C8000, the Panasonic I'm using is night and day better. I'm surprised 3 years later Samsung is still having IR issues.

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post #22 of 38 Old 09-26-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
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I haven't noticed anything near that severity. Last night I left it on the pause screen for a solid hour or so by accident, when I came back there was a faint outline for a minute or two.

I remember having the kind of severe IR issues you describe on the C8000, the Panasonic I'm using is night and day better. I'm surprised 3 years later Samsung is still having IR issues.

Funny enough that's actually why I went back to Samsung. They had very minor IR but my Panasonic GT50 had IR and then actual burn-in. None of the Samsungs ever permanently burned in for me.

I'm just wary of burn in with the F8500 now that I've been there before.

Happily, I'm finding less and less aggressive IR as tweak my settings here and there. I'm still gaming for 4-6 hours at a time. No permanent problems (yet?)

So that's good news!
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post #24 of 38 Old 11-04-2013, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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So with Panasonic's announcement that they are ceasing plasma production, this now brings the questions: Should I consider picking up a Panasonic before they are gone? Should I lean towards the F8500 more so now? Or should I consider abandoning the plasma idea altogether and going for LCD/LED?

Anyone with suggestions? I'd still like to pull the trigger on this prior to the PS4 launch or shortly after... but now it seems I have more to consider since Panasonic is exiting the plasma biz, I would expect other vendors will be following suit...
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post #25 of 38 Old 11-04-2013, 05:37 PM
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For the price that you can get a VT60, you would be crazy to pass that up. Best TV available imo and great for gaming. I paid much more for mine with no regrets at all

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post #26 of 38 Old 11-06-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

For the price that you can get a VT60, you would be crazy to pass that up. Best TV available imo and great for gaming. I paid much more for mine with no regrets at all

Man, I wish I could justify needing a new TV. I would love to get me VT60 panel, but my 3 year old G25 has been flawless for me. Either way, I could see these panels still being around for a few years like the older Pio Kuro panels.

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post #27 of 38 Old 11-09-2013, 08:19 AM
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You can, they stop plasma production in March. Now or never

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post #28 of 38 Old 11-09-2013, 06:01 PM
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You can, they stop plasma production in March. Now or never

December is when they end production. Sales through Panasonic will continue until March.
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post #29 of 38 Old 11-13-2013, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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so I've pretty much settled on the VT60 - I can't really find any compelling reason to go with the ZT60 as the feature set and the image quality seem to be nearly identical, with the ZT60 having a better filter on the screen for viewing in brightly lit rooms. Since this will be going downstairs in the theater room I'm putting together I think the VT60 will suffice. Still open for feedback if anyone disagrees/agrees?

Also - I've been reading something about waiting until after 100 hours of use before having the set calibrated... I've heard people saying that the CNET settings provide great results, while other people say that the settings out of the box are more than sufficient for them. I know from the 67-inch LED DLP I currently have that I tweaked a lot of the settings to get it where I liked it, but I never had it professionally calibrated. Is the recommendation for waiting 100 hours only if you're getting it professionally calibrated? Or should you wait 100 hours before adjusting any of the picture settings out of the box? If anyone has any recommendations or experience with this, it would be much appreciated!
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post #30 of 38 Old 11-14-2013, 03:41 AM
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I'm in the same boat as well, I've been eyeing the Sony KDL-55W900A, in all the reviews I've read so far it seems to get praised for its very low input-lag and color reproduction, I've seen it in person, both motion and picture look great, but I couldn't test the input lag. Downside to some might be the size limit tops at 55", it's the perfect size for my room. Let me know what you think!
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