Cant stand plasma judder. Are DLP projector better for gaming ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 07-24-2014, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Cant stand plasma judder. Are DLP projector better for gaming ?

Hey there,

Just bought a brand new Samsung Plasma f5500 (60") and cant be happier with image quality. I bought that for gaming (90% of usage) and some movies here and there (10%). I went plasma for image quality and mainly motion handling for games to get rid of most motion blur. Since a month I am playing call of duty and its amazing.

But then, I just tried the new Destiny beta (PS4) and things went downfall quickly. I nailed it down to the fact that game runs at 30fps while all i was playing (COD) was at 60fps. 30fps games like Destiny are horrible (to my taste) du to big amount of JUDDER. In Destiny, if I'm looking to a pole and turn quickly, I can easily see the pole "doubled" or I can say I see 2 poles very clearly. And it makes that with everything on the screen. While I understand LCD also have judder the motion blur covers it a little and it is less bothering to me than that big amount of judder. It is to the point that I dont enjoy any 30fps games on this TV now (Killzone PS4 is also horrible)

I went plasma to get rid of motion blur but this is not better motion at all. I find it worst!

Now I want to know, before I do a mistake, would I be better with a different technology, a DLP projector ? I have the HD25e in mind that falls into my budget. I cant spend more then around 1000-1100$.

I know the judder is an effect coming from the game itself in the fact that it send 30fps but LCD and plasma display it differently. How about a DLP projector about judder 30fps games ???

Please help!!
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post #2 of 10 Old 07-24-2014, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nataq View Post
Hey there,

Just bought a brand new Samsung Plasma f5500 (60") and cant be happier with image quality. I bought that for gaming (90% of usage) and some movies here and there (10%). I went plasma for image quality and mainly motion handling for games to get rid of most motion blur. Since a month I am playing call of duty and its amazing.

But then, I just tried the new Destiny beta (PS4) and things went downfall quickly. I nailed it down to the fact that game runs at 30fps while all i was playing (COD) was at 60fps. 30fps games like Destiny are horrible (to my taste) du to big amount of JUDDER. In Destiny, if I'm looking to a pole and turn quickly, I can easily see the pole "doubled" or I can say I see 2 poles very clearly. And it makes that with everything on the screen. While I understand LCD also have judder the motion blur covers it a little and it is less bothering to me than that big amount of judder. It is to the point that I dont enjoy any 30fps games on this TV now (Killzone PS4 is also horrible)

I went plasma to get rid of motion blur but this is not better motion at all. I find it worst!

Now I want to know, before I do a mistake, would I be better with a different technology, a DLP projector ? I have the HD25e in mind that falls into my budget. I cant spend more then around 1000-1100$.

I know the judder is an effect coming from the game itself in the fact that it send 30fps but LCD and plasma display it differently. How about a DLP projector about judder 30fps games ???

Please help!!
I have found this video that shows the problem but it is worst on my f5500 if I turn faster and I do a lot while playing a first person shooter like destiny.

EDIT: This video is not really showing a problem for me because the frame doubling is very minor. It is just to demonstrate what I am talking about but when I play this is way worst.


Last edited by Nataq; 07-28-2014 at 08:07 AM.
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post #3 of 10 Old 07-28-2014, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone ??
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post #4 of 10 Old 07-28-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nataq View Post
Anyone ??
I think that is something you just going to have to deal with. 30 FPS is not ideal for any game with a lot of fast motion. I don't think the solution is to go to a display with a slower refresh rate.
However, LCD displays usually have motion processing modes that may help smooth out the judder but they can create lag.
It would be nice if on consoles they let you choose some different graphics settings so you could bring the graphical fidelity down but the fps up.
Other option, build an htpc. I did this last winter and find the gaming experience far and away better than I expected. With steam and big picture mode, it feels like any other console. With a pc you'll get cheaper games and more option for choosing what's important to you. Fps or the best graphics.

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post #5 of 10 Old 07-28-2014, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your answer

I understand 30fps is mostly worst then anything running faster but it is not handled the same with different technologies. I am also aware of input lag with motion interpolation. Depending on games and lag input it may be best to have a smooth display then a very tight control (again, if input lag stays controlled enough, my friend LED is the case).

HTPC is great and I do have a PC connected to my TV that I use for gaming. But I did bought a PS4 lately and the TV was made to complement that.

My main question is, does DLP handles motion (specifically 30fps games) differently than plasma ?

Both are real fast performer and I am interested to compare the visual differences between the two and what to expect from them with 30fps games.
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post #6 of 10 Old 07-28-2014, 09:53 AM
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Cant stand plasma judder. Are DLP projector better for gaming ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nataq View Post
Thank you for your answer

I understand 30fps is mostly worst then anything running faster but it is not handled the same with different technologies. I am also aware of input lag with motion interpolation. Depending on games and lag input it may be best to have a smooth display then a very tight control (again, if input lag stays controlled enough, my friend LED is the case).

HTPC is great and I do have a PC connected to my TV that I use for gaming. But I did bought a PS4 lately and the TV was made to complement that.

My main question is, does DLP handles motion (specifically 30fps games) differently than plasma ?

Both are real fast performer and I am interested to compare the visual differences between the two and what to expect from them with 30fps games.

Out of the three, plasma handles 30fps the best, dlp is somewhere in between, and LCD is the worst.

The problem is 30fps itself, display tech cant make up for that outside of frame interpolation.

You're only noticing it because plasma handles motion better. If you're going to buy an LCD because you expect the blur to cover up the 30fps judder, then you're going to have to live with that blur at 60fps, where the plasma would be clearly superior.

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Last edited by bd2003; 07-28-2014 at 10:06 AM.
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post #7 of 10 Old 07-28-2014, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post
Out of the three, plasma handles 30fps the best, dlp is somewhere in between, and LCD is the worst.

The problem is 30fps itself, display tech cant make up for that outside of frame interpolation.

You're only noticing it because plasma handles motion better. If you're going to buy an LCD because you expect the blur to cover up the 30fps judder, then you're going to have to live with that blur at 60fps, where the plasma would be clearly superior.
Bingo, and this is why I own a VT60.
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post #8 of 10 Old 07-30-2014, 10:56 PM
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Do you notice it with any other games running at 30 FPS, or just Destiny? Because Destiny has (or had) an issue with delivering frames at uneven intervals, which will result in stuttering regardless of what display you use. A different game with consistent 30 FPS performance might very well give you the smoothness you were expecting in the first place.
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post #9 of 10 Old 07-31-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sethsez View Post
Do you notice it with any other games running at 30 FPS, or just Destiny? Because Destiny has (or had) an issue with delivering frames at uneven intervals, which will result in stuttering regardless of what display you use. A different game with consistent 30 FPS performance might very well give you the smoothness you were expecting in the first place.
All 30fps games does it for me. Just tried the new "The last of us" on PS4 yesterday. Silky smooth at default 60fps. This game offers the option to switch at 30fps so I did and saw exact same problem as all other 30fps games I have tried on my plasma screen. Either I am just very picky (but I really dounbt it cause it seems VERY obvious to me) or my particular TV (plasma samsung f5500) have massive juddering with 30fps. I'll try to take a video tomorrow
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post #10 of 10 Old 07-31-2014, 09:18 AM
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A video won't be able to properly capture what you're seeing, don't bother.

You're not picky, it sounds like you're just not adjusted to how 30fps looks.

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