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RS-MMMaxx questions

104K views 539 replies 115 participants last post by  MississippiMan 
#1 ·
Let me preface my questions with a little backround:


I have a 125" MDF screen with a Sanyo Z-3. With a 3/8 nap roller I rolled two coats of primer and two coats of UPW High Gloss enamel with the board flat on the ground. Between each coat of primer and UPW I used a wet sanding sponge over the entire surface to smooth out any roller marks and bumps, but I didn't completely sand it smooth to the touch. I now have the board permanently mounted on the wall (long story) but have not yet applied the two coats of RS-MMMaxx or sanded the final coat of UPW. I plan on renting a sprayer, practicing with it and spraying it in place on the wall. I plan on renting a HD sprayer, and I hope it's up to the task.


Now to the questions...


I notice that the final coats of UPW has left somewhat of a "texture" on the board. When projected upon, there is a sheen of hotspotting over the entire surface of the board, but it's only noticeable from looking at the board straight ahead from your sitting position. I assume this is caused by the small "bumps" that have not yet been sanded and the UPW gloss. Am I correct in assuming this or is my paint job pure crap?


Should I sand this final layer until is is smooth to the touch? Should I just even everything up with the sponge or should I get out the palm sander and work it?


Should I still use two coats of RS-MMMaxx with the sprayer or more? Should I add 4 more oz of Distilled Water for spraying or more? My current mix is:


1qt Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior (HD)

12 oz. Behr Deep Base Flat Exterior (HD)

3 (8oz) bottles - Delta Ceramcoat Metallic Silver #02603 (Michaels)

1 (8oz) bottle - Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 (Michaels)

16 oz. Minwax Polycrylic Satin Finish (HD)

12 oz. Distilled Water


Should I sand in any way the RS-MMMaxx final coat or use as is?


Thanks guys!
 
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#503 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kengm /forum/post/0


Let me go check...I'll post the names here.


FYI, my particular RSM screen was very very competitive with any of their cinema vision line. The entire screen, including materials for making the border (baseboarding and velvet) was $100. Pb_maxxx should be proud.

Agree totally with this. My RS-MMMaxxx screen competes with cinema vision in gain and knocks it down in every aspect. Popped up colors and darker blacks.


I also compared the screen with Dalite HiPower. HiPower has the gain, but it messes up blacks totally. The small sample of HiPower looked really bad in black levels compared to RS-MMMaxx.
 
#504 ·
Question. Will minor roller marks and bumps go away after letting the paint cure for a couple of days?
 
#505 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlreddragon /forum/post/0


Question. Will minor roller marks and bumps go away after letting the paint cure for a couple of days?

One man's "minor blemish or bump" is another man's total disaster.



And in DIY, often a minor blemish is only apparent during "Down Time", not under use.


Only time will tell. I'd have to see it to make any judgment, and even if I could do so, I'd opt to wait, and then lightly spot sand any still obvious problem, then sweep sand the screen lightly to assure a even texture. Then I'd hit it with another light coat. if I had a Base interacting in any way, or a normal, well applied coat.


If you have gotten used to rolling at all, you can most likely trace your roller marks to areas where you ran low on paint and that let the sides of the roller make full contact, leaving a heavy, wet ridge. A balance is necessary where you load your roller to just short of "Drippage" and work the areas you can cover, only deigning to wander 1/2 a roller width into the next adjoining area.....ONCE. This creates a light, no ridge "Feathered edge".


Then you reload and apply your next swath slightly ahead of the "feathered edge" then return to overlap the 'gap'. You fill in and smooth, feather to the side once more.....reload.....etc.


But in short, if you don't want to see roller marks, you must use caution in your applications. RS-MaxxMudd is a contrast enhancing paint that also has significant reflective properties. (1.3+ gain) But that means when a roller is employed, defects that would never be noticed at any other shade or hue are highlighted my the properties in the RS-MM.


Myself, I'd do my re-coating with heavily loaded Foam Trim rollers that have rounded edges. Leastwise... I have done screens entirely with those, and roller marks were non-existent. But they could of still cropped up if I tried to stretch my available paint on one roller too far. I have. It hurts. I don't do that anymore.



I spray these days. Always. Well, except if I'm priming a large area. But well do I recall just how easy it was to turn something easy into "hard" with just one error.


The bright side. Sanding and re-coating does give you still even more chance to get a tremendous, featureless screen surface. You can spot treat your only problems, equalize out the texture with sweep sanding, and get that next coat down perfectly.


But just remember this. Determining the time to leave of rolling an area is the "ART". You do not want the paint to be so thick, and applied so smoothly that it develops a sheen. So you must observe where the roller has just started to lift paint. Even that effect out and move over and repeat until you have reached the boarder of the "to be feathered" area where there is almost no paint and carry the paint you've collected into the "Feather". That is the step by step method.


I exercise the "Speedy Gonzalez" princible and get the entire area rolled as fast as possible, then I go over it again lightly with my used roller, "tacking the surface" while it is still wet. Then I go away, and if it is all good, the result is a very smooth surface that has no sheen, but that lights up when projected light smacks it.


The metallic content makes it necessary for one to not smooth coat to the point of sheen. And the need to avoid roller marks is met with the use of the right roller when the next to last and last coats are applied.


Or....., you could "Wagnerize' it to absolute perfection after the sanding.


Makes me get all tingly.
 
#506 ·
^^Thanks for long reply MM I really appreciate it. So far I've painted 3 coats not including the base, and I feel like I've achieved better coverage with each successive coat (although it's still not perfect). I'm just experimenting right now, and I'm not looking to drop the dough on a sprayer just yet, so I have no choice but to fine-tune my rolling skills. The first time I tried painting I did it on straight dry wall. It may just be my imagination but I think the mix not only goes on darker on drywall than an MDF-treated board, but also appears more metallic or "silvery" even though I used the same basecoat for both. I'm relatively new at screen painting so I'm still in that trial-and-error phase.
 
#508 ·
What type "Sprayer" ?


My suggestion in your case would be to go with the Silver Fire or RS-MMMax "LL" varieties.


The former will be the one to consider if you want the most CR enhancement, and the latter if you want CR boosting but the most Gain .
 
#509 ·
Silver Fire for the best possible black levels with adjustment of gamma to restore any degree of attenuated white levels. Perhaps the best choice to make with the Panny and it's (...wish it really was....) 2000:1 CR


Silver Fire Lite for really vibrant "Paint and Shoot" results and better black levels than any white surface can provide.


PS.


Thanks for the timely edit!
 
#510 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/0


Silver Fire for the best possible black levels with adjustment of gamma to restore any degree of attenuated white levels. Perhaps the best choice to make with the Panny and it's (...wish it really was....) 2000:1 CR


Silver Fire Lite for really vibrant "Paint and Shoot" results and better black levels than any white surface can provide.


PS.


Thanks for the timely edit!

Hi MMan:


Can I use Silver fire on a drywall? If yes, what sort of primer do I use?


Also, none of the threads contain any details as to how to apply it (just as there are detailed instructions on ho wto apply Silver Metallic / MMudd).


Is there a thread with this information?


Thanx,


Bhushan
 
#511 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhe /forum/post/0


Hi MMan:


Can I use Silver fire on a drywall? If yes, what sort of primer do I use?


Absolutely you can use it .......on ANY smooth, applicable surface. Just always apply 3 coats of Kilz2 primer (water based) with a low Nap Roller (3/8" MAX)

Quote:
Also, none of the threads contain any details as to how to apply it (just as there are detailed instructions on how to apply Silver Metallic / MMudd).


Is there a thread with this information?


Thanx,


Bhushan

If your spraying or rolling, the required instructions are here...............at the start of this Thread....Second Post.....and are repeated below. They do not differ between either RS_MaxxMudd or Silver Fire.


For most people, the easiest and most available DIY option is to use a Flat , Semi-gloss or Satin white basecoat.


Spraying is the preferred application for both the basecoat and the topcoat.


For those rolling an upw gloss basecoat... a 1:/0.5:/0.5 mix of (upw/minwax polycrylic/water) is recommended for achieving a smoother basecoat. for best results use a 3/16" nap smooth synthetic roller.


-------------------------------


TIPS & TECHNIQUES...


- spraying is the preferred method over rolling.


- when spraying use a 1.4mm - 1.7mm spray tip.


- protect yourself (protect your lungs).


A word of warning to the wise... especially if you are planning on spraying ANY paint product or mix. wear the best mask you can afford... preferably the ones with dual filters and look like gas masks.

BRIEF SPRAYING INSTRUCTIONS...applicable for eithe a Conventional HVLP Gun/Compressor Rig or the Wagner Control Spray Electric HVLP


This mix is very 'wet' and you'll want your spraying motion to be fairly rapid and also watch for runs.


The 1st coat is what i call the 'frost coating'. basically in a very rapid motion you'll lightly apply a 'frost' coat across the entire board. the purpose of this is to give the full coat that is to follow something to adhere to... and to prevent runs. let this frost coat dry for 15/20 minutes.


The 2nd coat is a full coat. after applying... step back... and see if there are any 'soft' spots. lightly 'feather spray' the soft spots. and then let dry for 45 minutes.


The 3rd coat is also a full coat. after applying... again, step back, and see if there are any soft spots... and 'feather spray' only those.


let dry for a least 1/2 a day before viewing.

it'll take a week or more to cure and show it's full potential.


DO NOT USE ADDITIONAL EXTENDERS


Extenders such as floetrol are not needed with this mix. the MinWax water-based urethane is already a natural extender and does not require any additional help.

When rolling - use a 9 inch, 3/16" nap smooth synthetic roller


Three (3) coats is sufficent on top of a smooth, pure white primed surface.


The mix should go on nice and smooth, use vertical up and down strokes, work fairly quickly from left to right overlapping each pass and getting good coverage, but do not work the paint for long. the mix needs to go on wet and glossy... which allows the wetness of the mix, gravity, and time to blend the components together and dry without roller marks.


When you are done with each coat... the screen surface should look like a wet light gray glass sheet... and it should take about 20 minutes before you see any signs of drying. otherwise you put the coat of mix on too dry.

When rolled properly, the screen will dry to a smooth flat/eggshell finish.


--------------------------------


do not sand the final coat. as the mix dries the urethane slightly rises to the surface. sanding the final coat would only defeat some of the properties of the urethane in the mix.


If these tips and instructions are not enough, don't wander into virgin territory

without asking further questions.
 
#512 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/0


Absolutely you can use it .......on ANY smooth, applicable surface. Just always apply 3 coats of Kilz2 primer (water based) with a low Nap Roller (3/8" MAX)




If your spraying or rolling, the required instructions are here...............at the start of this Thread....Second Post.....and are repeated below. They do not differ between either RS_MaxxMudd or Silver Fire.


For most people, the easiest and most available DIY option is to use a Flat , Semi-gloss or Satin white basecoat.


Spraying is the preferred application for both the basecoat and the topcoat.


For those rolling an upw gloss basecoat... a 1:/0.5:/0.5 mix of (upw/minwax polycrylic/water) is recommended for achieving a smoother basecoat. for best results use a 3/16" nap smooth synthetic roller.


-------------------------------


TIPS & TECHNIQUES...


- spraying is the preferred method over rolling.


- when spraying use a 1.4mm - 1.7mm spray tip.


- protect yourself (protect your lungs).


A word of warning to the wise... especially if you are planning on spraying ANY paint product or mix. wear the best mask you can afford... preferably the ones with dual filters and look like gas masks.

BRIEF SPRAYING INSTRUCTIONS...applicable for eithe a Conventional HVLP Gun/Compressor Rig or the Wagner Control Spray Electric HVLP


This mix is very 'wet' and you'll want your spraying motion to be fairly rapid and also watch for runs.


The 1st coat is what i call the 'frost coating'. basically in a very rapid motion you'll lightly apply a 'frost' coat across the entire board. the purpose of this is to give the full coat that is to follow something to adhere to... and to prevent runs. let this frost coat dry for 15/20 minutes.


The 2nd coat is a full coat. after applying... step back... and see if there are any 'soft' spots. lightly 'feather spray' the soft spots. and then let dry for 45 minutes.


The 3rd coat is also a full coat. after applying... again, step back, and see if there are any soft spots... and 'feather spray' only those.


let dry for a least 1/2 a day before viewing.

it'll take a week or more to cure and show it's full potential.


DO NOT USE ADDITIONAL EXTENDERS


Extenders such as floetrol are not needed with this mix. the MinWax water-based urethane is already a natural extender and does not require any additional help.

When rolling - use a 9 inch, 3/16" nap smooth synthetic roller


Three (3) coats is sufficent on top of a smooth, pure white primed surface.


The mix should go on nice and smooth, use vertical up and down strokes, work fairly quickly from left to right overlapping each pass and getting good coverage, but do not work the paint for long. the mix needs to go on wet and glossy... which allows the wetness of the mix, gravity, and time to blend the components together and dry without roller marks.


When you are done with each coat... the screen surface should look like a wet light gray glass sheet... and it should take about 20 minutes before you see any signs of drying. otherwise you put the coat of mix on too dry.

When rolled properly, the screen will dry to a smooth flat/eggshell finish.


--------------------------------


do not sand the final coat. as the mix dries the urethane slightly rises to the surface. sanding the final coat would only defeat some of the properties of the urethane in the mix.


If these tips and instructions are not enough, don't wander into virgin territory

without asking further questions.

Thanx a lot, MMan. I plan to use a upw gloss basecoat. Should I use 3 coats for basecoat as well as topcoat? And are the drying times (between coats) valid for the basecoat as well as topcoat? Or are they different?


Pl. educate me.


Thanx,


Bhushan
 
#513 ·
Looking at upgrading from my Blackout Cloth screen. I am obsessed when it comes to getting blacks that show detail. What would be the best mix for that type result? We have a Optoma HD70 projector in our basement with no ambient light what so ever. I don't care much for my whites so whatever I can do to get that black detail would be the best. I am getting plenty of brightness with the blackout cloth now and we have the projector at a relatively low brightness setting, so I need to know what I can do to get those blacks.


Currently the screen measures about 108" so I think our final one is going to be about 92"- 96" so we should have even more light to play with. Also, is there a tutorial for everything from mixing the paint, to making the frame, to applying it? Thanks! Will also be getting a Oppo upconverter soon hopefully. I also need these blacks because lots of the games we play really need those dark details. Thanks again!


One more thing, do you guys just sell the mixed paint at all or is it easy enough to make? Thanks :p
 
#514 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhe /forum/post/0


Thanx a lot, MMan. I plan to use a upw gloss basecoat. Should I use 3 coats for basecoat as well as topcoat?

Three coats of Primer sets up not just a very good white reflective surface, it also allows you to work that surface into as smooth a surface as possible by lightly sanding out any irregularities

Quote:
And are the drying times (between coats) valid for the basecoat as well as topcoat? Or are they different?

Primer drys somewhat faster than a Paint containing Poly. Observing the drying and noting that the "Wet Sheen' is leaving as the surface dries is the best indication of the process. After the sheen is gone and there is no concern about plastering dust and hair on the screen surface, the use of a Box Fan to hasten further drying will allow at most a 1 hour total drying time between finish coats.

Quote:
Pl. educate me.


Thanx,


Bhushan

Class dismissed. But keep your notes. There's a "PoP" quiz coming that's 90% of your grade for the semester. And there is NO Bell curve.
 
#516 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbspills /forum/post/0


What do you mean by "Feather Spray"?

You start with the Gun pointing sideways to the surface, press the trigger and note you have paint flow, then twist the gun inward into the needful area to coat primarily that area that has less coverage (...or a Boo Boo to correct....) than the surrounding areas. As you reach the other side of the spot/area needing the "Feathering", you twist back sideways to the surface and release the trigger.


Practice doing that first.
 
#517 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhe /forum/post/0



"SILVER FIRE"


(base components)

24 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601

16 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603

8 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior #4050)

8 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624


(viscosity components)

20 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish

20 oz. Distilled / Tap Water


(color components)

30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077

18 ml Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7)

12 ml Delta Ultra Blue #02038

4 oz. Distilled / Tap Water

I found the Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green at a local Art store; but they seem to have 2 choices - one with blue shade and another with yellow. Does someone know whats the correct shade to use?


Thanx,


Bhushan
 
#520 ·
I've read on this thing for hours now, and I am still not quite sure as what to do and could really use some help. I have a Sony Pearl coming and am going to build a 110" screen with blackout cloth. If I have this correct my basecoat needs to be UPW Gloss (because this is blackout cloth?),Min-Wax, and water with the proportions of 1/.5/.5. I will also be using the LL formula on the first page:


16 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601

8 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603

10 oz. UPW flat

2 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624

14 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish

14 oz. distilled/tap water


1) On the basecoat is the Min-Wax satin or gloss (I've read to use both)?

2) The UPW needs to be gloss (read both on this too, I have blackout cloth), is this correct?

3) The 1/.5/.5 formula for the base is the correct proportion for BOC?

4)The LL formula, are the ingredients listed above what goes into the top coat or does this also include what is needed for the base coat (the proportions aren't right for a 1/.5./.5 base coat so I assume this is strictly for the top coat)?

5) Is there another coat which goes on the top coat, or is the LL the finished product?


Thanks guys for you help!
 
#521 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcmo /forum/post/0


I've read on this thing for hours now, and I am still not quite sure as what to do and could really use some help. I have a Sony Pearl coming and am going to build a 110" screen with blackout cloth. If I have this correct my basecoat needs to be UPW Gloss (because this is blackout cloth?),Min-Wax, and water with the proportions of 1/.5/.5. I will also be using the LL formula on the first page:


16 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601

8 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603

10 oz. UPW flat

2 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624

14 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish

14 oz. distilled/tap water


1) On the basecoat is the Min-Wax satin or gloss (I've read to use both)?

There is usually no need to use Minwax in the UPW base coat, but when it is used, it's usually a "Satin". Except for when the below situation is encountered.

Quote:
2) The UPW needs to be gloss (read both on this too, I have blackout cloth), is this correct?

No. A Gloss or Semi-Gloss UPW would be an Oil based Enamel, and no such usage is suggested. Instead, if you want those properties, maintain a Water Based mix by using a Gloss or Semi-Gloss Poly

Quote:
3) The 1/.5/.5 formula for the base is the correct proportion for BOC?

Yes.

Quote:
4)The LL formula, are the ingredients listed above what goes into the top coat or does this also include what is needed for the base coat (the proportions aren't right for a 1/.5./.5 base coat so I assume this is strictly for the top coat)?

Top Coat only.

Quote:
5) Is there another coat which goes on the top coat, or is the LL the finished product?

That's it.


Quote:
Thanks guys for you help!

Shur Nuff.



Before you start though check out the "Wagner for MississippiMan?" thread;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799078


You'll want to spray for the absolute most stunning results, and you cannot do it any easier, quicker, or less expensive than with the Wagner Control Spray.
 
#525 ·
I am using a 3M 9800 Over Head Projector that puts out 6000 lumens at 3450k. I am using a 720P HD LCD TV. The projected image is ok in a dark room but very dim with background light. I'm currently using a canvas projector screen 150" diagonal. I want to decrease size of new screen to about 106" diagonal.
 
#526 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHP Man /forum/post/0


I am using a 3M 9800 Over Head Projector that puts out 6000 lumens at 3450k. I am using a 720P HD LCD TV. The projected image is ok in a dark room but very dim with background light. I'm currently using a canvas projector screen 150" diagonal. I want to decrease size of new screen to about 106" diagonal.

Now that is a pretty wild approach. Similar to DIY LCD PJs but kinda a short cut...eh?


Your screen size is partly to blame, so the reduction will help a lot. The canvas screen's gain is also detrimental, so just about anything with a better performance ratio will help you out as well..


Is the Canvas's weave very tight? Should be if it's a dedicated "Screen material". Can you consider using a spray method to coat it with, such as the Wagner Control Spray Electric HVLP Gun? ($70.00) ***


If so, you can easily coat that surface and vastly improve upon what you presently are putting up with, between a smaller size and a better surface, you'll be in OHP Heaven.


***If not, we have a member who also has a Canvas "Brush painted' screen solution
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662348 It hasn't been tried with a "metallic based" Paint Mix though. But "Rolling" on such a surface has, so you do have alternatives to spraying.


But no matter what else is said, if you can spray, do so.
 
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