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Official AVS TiVo HD Topic!

569K views 5K replies 394 participants last post by  Wryker 
#1 ·
Moderators Note

Please see post #2, just below, for full details.
 
#77 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat /forum/post/11552482


SDV is a serious problem, potentially at least, for both S3 and TiVo HD owners because the current generation of one-way CableCARD devices doesn't support SDV. It's hard to predict at this early date how much S3 and HD owners will be hurt because the answer depends on how many of a given cable system's HD channels are shifted to HD.


In some Time Warner markets it appears that all of the HD channels will shift to SDV this month, which will turn the S3s and HDs used in those markets into boat anchors. The rest of us just have to wait and see.


One ray of sunshine I have seen in this is that SDV is only one of several ways in which cable systems can increase bandwidth or its utilization and isn't the best one at that. Apparently SDV does very little, if anything, to preserve bandwidth on heavily used channels and is most efficient when applied to seldom accessed channels.


There is talk that TiVo and others are working on a fix, in the form of a USB dongle, which would allow S3s and HDs to access SDV channels. But that proposed fix is months away, at the soonest, so we have to wait to see what comes of that, too.


Being an early adopter is hell, isn't it?

I'm just waiting for people using these new systems to find out that they can't watch something because there's too many other channels in use by other people. How about the TV telling you in the middle of a program that too many people want to watch something else so it's disconnecting you. This has nightmare written all over it.
 
#79 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 /forum/post/11554787


Actually, the CableCards will work with SDV; the problem is the TiVo S3 and HD aren't two-way host devices. The solution you mentioned adds hardware to the TiVo device, and that will (supposedly) resolve the SDV issue, without any change to CableCards.

That's right. The proposed USB dongle fix is supposed to turn S3s and HDs into two-way CableCARD devices, which would allow them to use SDV channels.


Have any two-way CableCARD devices been marketed yet, other that the proprietary CableCARD enabled DVRs used by the cable companies, such as the SA 8300HDC?
 
#80 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat /forum/post/11554969


Have any two-way CableCARD devices been marketed yet, other that the proprietary CableCARD enabled DVRs used by the cable companies, such as the SA 8300HDC?

Nope. At the moment, there's no point.


The current Cable Labs license requires that a two-way devices use the cable company's own OCAP interface (they can't use their own interface), but most cable systems still are not setup to handle OCAP devices yet. Until most cable systems are ready with OCAP, there is no way for two-way DVRs to get usable software.
 
#81 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/11555080


The current Cable Labs license requires that a two-way devices use the cable company's own OCAP interface (they can't use their own interface), but most cable systems still are not setup to handle OCAP devices yet. Until most cable systems are ready with OCAP, there is no way for two-way DVRs to get usable software.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Do you want to talk about a Catch 22? I try not to dwell on what content owners are doing to consumers with their various copy protection schemes - because this way lies madness.
 
#82 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat /forum/post/11554969


That’s right. The proposed USB dongle fix is supposed to turn S3s and HDs into two-way CableCARD devices, which would allow them to use SDV channels.


Have any two-way CableCARD devices been marketed yet, other that the proprietary CableCARD enabled DVRs used by the cable companies, such as the SA 8300HDC?
Quote:
When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services.
http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html
 
#83 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/11555080


Nope. At the moment, there's no point.


The current Cable Labs license requires that a two-way devices use the cable company's own OCAP interface (they can't use their own interface), but most cable systems still are not setup to handle OCAP devices yet. Until most cable systems are ready with OCAP, there is no way for two-way DVRs to get usable software.

How do the current cable card DVRs (such as the SA 8300HDC) work?
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB /forum/post/11559580


How do the current cable card DVRs (such as the SA 8300HDC) work?

The same way the old models did. Many (most?) 8300HDC DVRs still use the same basic version of SARA.


One exception may be TWC's Navigator. My understanding is that TWC deployed an OCAP version of Navigator. If you are in a TWC market and your 8300HDC has the Navigator software, then it may be using the OCAP middleware.
 
#85 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/11559728


The same way the old models did. Many (most?) 8300HDC DVRs still use the same basic version of SARA.


One exception may be TWC's Navigator. My understanding is that TWC deployed an OCAP version of Navigator. If you are in a TWC market and your 8300HDC has the Navigator software, then it may be using the OCAP middleware.

Isn't this (8300HDC DVRs with SARA but no OCAP middleware) a violation of the current Cable Labs license which you state requires that two-way devices use the cable company's own OCAP interface (they can't use their own interface), but most cable systems still are not setup to handle OCAP devices yet? Until most cable systems are ready with OCAP, there is no way for two-way DVRs to get usable software. Why can these devices ignore OCAP and still be permitted by the Cable Labs license but other devices can't?
 
#86 ·
Well, I've looked around a bit, and this thread looks like the closest thing to an "official" tivohd thread...true? Please feel free to re-direct me if needed...


I have a series 3, and I'm considering a tivohd for the family room - especially with mrv coming in november - great news.


But I have a question - if I do NOT get cable cards on the tivohd (I do have them on the series 3, don't want to go through that again plus comcast sounds like they want to charge me 6.95 per additional card - they say they are surprised that I got my second card on the series 3 for just $1.50/mo, and the first one for free...!) - anyway, sorry for the digression - so, is there any impact on my guide data if I'm only concerned about recording OTA on the tivohd? I seem to remember the series 3 was limited/handicapped if you didn't get cable cards on it...any issues here if it's intended for OTA?


Thanks...
 
#87 ·
Ron-

I've no problem with OTA recording. The guide data seems fine to me... I see about two weeks of data for all of my OTA stations. Season Pass and all that stuff seems to work fine.


I'm new to the world of Tivo, but, after just two weeks of TivoHD, I fear I'm hooked for life.
 
#88 ·
I have questions about cablecards, mainly because I've no idea how they work.


Comcast tells me I've got to subscribe to their digital package in order to get a cablecard. Does that make sense?


All I want it for is to get the clear QAM stations. Do I need a cablecard to do so? Most of my clear QAM stations already seem to be mapped properly when I look at them via my Fusion5 tuner in my computer (I've an OTA station 4-1, and a QAM 4-1 station). So I'm not sure why I would need a cablecard in the TivoHD.
 
#89 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron /forum/post/11617121


Well, I've looked around a bit, and this thread looks like the closest thing to an "official" tivohd thread...true? Please feel free to re-direct me if needed...


I have a series 3, and I'm considering a tivohd for the family room - especially with mrv coming in november - great news.


But I have a question - if I do NOT get cable cards on the tivohd (I do have them on the series 3, don't want to go through that again plus comcast sounds like they want to charge me 6.95 per additional card - they say they are surprised that I got my second card on the series 3 for just $1.50/mo, and the first one for free...!) - anyway, sorry for the digression - so, is there any impact on my guide data if I'm only concerned about recording OTA on the tivohd? I seem to remember the series 3 was limited/handicapped if you didn't get cable cards on it...any issues here if it's intended for OTA?


Thanks...

My TiVo HD arrived a couple of weeks before the cable cards did, so I set it up without the cards. It works fine, but without the cable cards, it will only receive basic analog cable channels. With an antenna hooked up, the OTA channels are digital and work fine.


Without the cable cards, the TiVo Guide data reflects the OTA channels and the basic cable channels. It works fine. However, I did notice the quality of some of the basic analog cable channels were lousy! Lots of contrast bleeding at the edges of the screen.


Mark
 
#90 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax /forum/post/11617632


I have questions about cablecards, mainly because I've no idea how they work.


Comcast tells me I've got to subscribe to their digital package in order to get a cablecard. Does that make sense?


All I want it for is to get the clear QAM stations. Do I need a cablecard to do so? Most of my clear QAM stations already seem to be mapped properly when I look at them via my Fusion5 tuner in my computer (I've an OTA station 4-1, and a QAM 4-1 station). So I'm not sure why I would need a cablecard in the TivoHD.

Yes, you need to subscribe to a digital package to use a cable card. A cable card is just a decoder for digital channels. Without a cable card and the cable attached to the cable input on the TiVo HD, all you'll receive are the basic, unencrypted analog cable channels.


Now I haven't tried this myself, but try hooking the cable into the antenna input on the TiVo HD. You might be able to see the clear QAM stations that way. My TV has a QAM tuner and for a while, I split my cable between the Comcast DVR I had and the TV. I was able to tune to the clear QAM channels on my TV. However, I doubt you'll get TiVo Guide Data for the QAM channels hooked up this way.


Mark
 
#91 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax /forum/post/11617632


I have questions about cablecards, mainly because I've no idea how they work.


Comcast tells me I've got to subscribe to their digital package in order to get a cablecard. Does that make sense?

Comcast's service options look something like this:
  1. Basic cable (locals including HD + gov't channels) - $10-$15/mo

  2. Extended basic (most common nat'l channels) - Extra $35/mo

  3. Comcast Digital (numerous digital filler channels + 5-10 HD channels; also includes one non-HD STB or CableCard ) - Extra $10-$16/mo.


Comcast CSRs are trained to quote all three packages together when you ask about digital service. The first item is required for TV service. However, in many service areas, you can ask for just (1) and (3).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax /forum/post/11617632


All I want it for is to get the clear QAM stations. Do I need a cablecard to do so?

You can use analog cable + OTA with the TivoHD without a CableCard and you'll get guide information for those channels. Unencrypted digital cable channels will show up in the guide too, but they won't have program information.


If you want program information on digital channels, you must have the CableCard. The CableCard tells the Tivo which QAM numbers correspond to what channel numbers in the guide. You would need services #1 and #3 listed above.
 
#92 ·

You can use analog cable + OTA with the TivoHD without a CableCard. Unencrypted digital channels will show up in the guide, but they won't have program information.


QUOTE]


This (and Turbogadget's message) is what I was looking for, thanks.


Clarification - For the unencrypted digital channels in the guide, does the channel, start time, end time show up properly, and the "program information" that's missing is just the description/title of the show? i.e. can I still set recordings on these shows, and I just won't have the title/description of the show in the recording listing?


I'm primarily interested in the OTA stuff anyway, since my cable hd I can record on the S3.
 
#93 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron /forum/post/11623517


Clarification - For the unencrypted digital channels in the guide, does the channel, start time, end time show up properly, and the "program information" that's missing is just the description/title of the show? i.e. can I still set recordings on these shows, and I just won't have the title/description of the show in the recording listing?

No.


On digital cable channels, you get no information of any kind without a CableCard. As far as I know, there are no programming slots. Of course, you can still schedule manual recordings, but they won't have program titles.


You do get full guide information on analog cable and OTA channels without a CableCard. All channels are seamlessly integrated into the same guide.
 
#94 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/11559728


The same way the old models did. Many (most?) 8300HDC DVRs still use the same basic version of SARA.


One exception may be TWC's Navigator. My understanding is that TWC deployed an OCAP version of Navigator. If you are in a TWC market and your 8300HDC has the Navigator software, then it may be using the OCAP middleware.

I can confirm that, I just setup a 8300HDC last night, on powerup it displays OCAP before starting. Several bugs so far, which is why I'm in the Tivo forums
 
#95 ·
This is a slightly off topic question, but I'm using an UHF antenna on my roof to get my HD stations to my Tivo. Once the US goes 100% digital, will I also need to get a VHF antenna? I've heard rumors along those lines, and figure I should put up a new antenna before all of the antenna installers go out of business.
 
#96 ·
Yes. Some stations will stay UHF and some will go back to VHF.

I know here in DC several statiosn are planning to go back to the VHF frequency their analog channel is on once the analog is cut off.
 
#97 ·
Noticed an interesting feature on my newly acquired HD.

If the 30 second skip ->| is activated then using this during fast forward > the skip is multiplied. The multiplier varies by the amount of fast forward. Smallest for one >, larger for 2 >> and for 3 >>> it seems to skip 30 minutes.


Also works for rewind. 3
 
#98 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11645689


Noticed an interesting feature on my newly acquired HD.

If the 30 second skip ->| is activated then using this during fast forward > the skip is multiplied. The multiplier varies by the amount of fast forward. Smallest for one >, larger for 2 >> and for 3 >>> it seems to skip 30 minutes.

It's not multiplied. This is a standard feature called "skip to tick." It skips to the next "tick" on the progress bar.


The actual skip time will depend on the size of the tick. Each 'tick' on a three-hour recording will be much larger than a 'tick' on a one-hour recording.
 
#99 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/11646181


It's not multiplied. This is a standard feature called "skip to tick." It skips to the next "tick" on the progress bar.


The actual skip time will depend on the size of the tick. Each 'tick' on a three-hour recording will be much larger than a 'tick' on a one-hour recording.

Tnx for the info. Searched this thread for skip details and found none. Perhaps should have searched the S3 thread instead.
 
#100 ·
The Tivo HD was returned because it has bugs.


Connected to a Vizio GL52F 52 inch LCD via HDMI4.


Bugs:

On several occasions when switching between a recording and tuner 1 and

tuner 2 there is no sound on tuner 2. Only switching tuner 2 channels

would restore sound.


On one occasion, switching video output format from 1080i fixed to 1080i

hybrid worked but switching back to 1080i fixed (or any format) resulted

in total loss of video although the menus displayed properly.

It required a reset to restore proper operation.

The TV is not at fault, swiching to HDMI1 connected to a Sony HDD250

displayed proper video.


Features:


'Select' should not initiate recording. It is to easy to accidentally start a recording when the user expects 'select' to act as 'enter'

Recording initiation should be reserved for the 'record' key.


The Tivo should have a user selectable skip time, say 15, 30, 20, 120

seconds. like the HDD250/500 recorders. Even my Mits S-VHS tape recorder

has this feature.


Like the HDD250/500 a user selectable record buffer would be handy. The

HDD20 has a choice of 15, 30 min 1 and 2 hours.


Since I only use OTA and TWC analog cable the only Tivo feature useful to me are the dual tuners, the cable card (which the Sony also has) is of no use to me.

For now I am staying with the Sony HDD250 but plan to re-visit the Tivo HD when the promised new software appears by the end of this year.


Perhaps the bugs will be fixed as well.
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


On several occasions when switching between a recording and tuner 1 and

tuner 2 there is no sound on tuner 2. Only switching tuner 2 channels

would restore sound.

Interesting, I'm trying to picture what you mean by this. By tuner 2, do you mean analog? I'm 100% OTA with both tuners only receiving digital signals and cannot recreate this problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/0


On one occasion, switching video output format from 1080i fixed to 1080i

hybrid worked but switching back to 1080i fixed (or any format) resulted in total loss of video

although the menus displayed properly. It required a reset to restore proper operation.

The TV is not at fault, swiching to HDMI1 connected to a Sony HDD250 displayed proper video.

I also cannot recreate this problem. I did lose video when I tried sending 480i material from TivoCast via HDMI, but it came back as soon as I went to 720p hybrid. So I wonder if you're having the problem with scaling analog stations. Also, this sounds much more like a HDMI issue - I'd not be so quick to blame the TivoHD for this. I'm not defending TivoHD, but blaming the people who made HDMI so much of a pain in the ass. I've had all sorts of problems with HDMI handshaking and use component except with my HD DVD player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/0


'Select' should not initiate recording. It is to easy to accidentally start a recording when the user expects 'select' to act as 'enter'

Recording initiation should be reserved for the 'record' key.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. The Select button is in the perfect location to start a recording...you can find it without looking at the remote. The record button is like a shortcut for recording, but I have to look at the remote to find it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/0


The Tivo should have a user selectable skip time, say 15, 30, 20, 120

seconds. like the HDD250/500 recorders. Even my Mits S-VHS tape recorder

has this feature.

They do! I'm a complete Tivo beginner and I set my remote to skip 30 sec at a touch of a button. What I really miss is the go to begining button, and a way to drag the current play location to a specific spot. Here's how you set the skip:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/0


To enable 30-sec skip with the ->| button, enter the following key sequence while watching a recording: Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select. Note you will need to re-enter this code after a Tivo software update, and any time you unplug the TivoHD (or lose power).
Quote:
Like the HDD250/500 a user selectable record buffer would be handy. The HDD20 has a choice of 15, 30 min 1 and 2 hours.

I believe they do, in a fashion. Just change the end time when you setup the recording. I do this all the time with Football games.


I agree that your first two bugs are definite problems that need to be addressed. They may go away if you use a component cable, but you should not have to do that. But the other problems you've listed with the Features seem like things you could get used to. The fact that the TivoHD has dual tuners and zero problems with getting accurate guide data, plus all of the really useful features like accurately recording new episodes, makes it worth while putting up with its minor quirks. With all the new shows starting this week and next, this is the perfect week to have dual tuners.


My wife almost always rolls her eyes every time I bring home a new device for my TV. After we've had the TivoHD for a few weeks, she said that this may be the the first good addition since I brought home a DVD player.
 
#102 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


Connected to a Vizio GL52F 52 inch LCD via HDMI4.

OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


Bugs:

On several occasions when switching between a recording and tuner 1 and

tuner 2 there is no sound on tuner 2. Only switching tuner 2 channels

would restore sound.


On one occasion, switching video output format from 1080i fixed to 1080i

hybrid worked but switching back to 1080i fixed (or any format) resulted

in total loss of video although the menus displayed properly.

It required a reset to restore proper operation.

The TV is not at fault, swiching to HDMI1 connected to a Sony HDD250

displayed proper video.

Not sure how you can pin this on the TiVo. It could just as easily be the display being unable to re-sync with the HDMI stream when the TiVo's swapping tuners (which probably temporarily disrupts the data flow between the TiVo and display).


Swapping to the Sony on another HDMI input also forced the display to sync up with another HDMI device, which probably forced it to start from scratch and thus clear up the problem you were seeing. I can't see how this can be directly attributed to the TiVo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


'Select' should not initiate recording. It is to easy to accidentally start a recording when the user expects 'select' to act as 'enter'


Recording initiation should be reserved for the 'record' key.

From where ? The menus, the guide, watching live TV, watching a pre-recorded show ? Where ?


The select operation only serves as a confirmation of a user-initiated process in the first place. The TiVo isn't just gonna decide to record a show for you and query if it's OK or not...


Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


The Tivo should have a user selectable skip time, say 15, 30, 20, 120 seconds. like the HDD250/500 recorders. Even my Mits S-VHS tape recorder has this feature.

Go complain to the content providers. TiVo has a 30-second skip, which works perfectly well, but they have to keep it disabled by default because the big content guys don't want us skipping their precious commercials. You can enable it by hitting Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select


Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


Like the HDD250/500 a user selectable record buffer would be handy. The HDD20 has a choice of 15, 30 min 1 and 2 hours.

Whoopee-doo. Good for Sony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


Since I only use OTA and TWC analog cable the only Tivo feature useful to me are the dual tuners, the cable card (which the Sony also has) is of no use to me.


For now I am staying with the Sony HDD250 but plan to re-visit the Tivo HD when the promised new software appears by the end of this year.

There's likely to be nothing even remotely close to what your complaining about in the upcoming Winter software update. It's going to add features which include sharing video files to/from one TiVo to another, or even between the TiVo and a PC. Your laundry list of complaints simply illustrate your attempted use of the box in a manner that's not consistent with how it actually works.


Don't say the box is faulty just because it doesn't work the way YOU want it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother /forum/post/11666827


Perhaps the bugs will be fixed as well.

Perhaps you'll take a few minutes to RTFM before deciding that the box is faulty. Have fun with your obsolete and End-Of-Lifed Sony box.
 
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