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439K views 680 replies 246 participants last post by  SIQOIA 
#1 ·
The title says it all..

What exactly is the difference between Bitstream vs. Linear PCM? ... the two options you have to choose from when choosing HDMI Audio Out from the settings. What exactly do I need to choose in order for the sound to come out the way it should? Does Linear PCM need to be chosen in order for PCM soundtracks from a blu-ray disc to output at its optimum?


When I play Pursuit of Happyness in 5.1 PCM (Bitstream enabled), my receiver will show that PCM is active. When I play it in 5.1 English (Bitstream enabled), my receiver will whos that Dolby Digital is active. But the 5.1 English sounds louder than the 5.1 PCM. But shouldn't that be the other way around... 5.1 PCM is uncompressed. When I play both soundtracks with Linear PCM enabled, my receiver will only show PCM active (even if I play the 5.1 English soundtrack).


Any help is appreciated.


Thanks
 
#27 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by benso37 /forum/post/12148293


So, even though my receiver (Onkyo 605) can decode the DTS-MA codec, the PS3 cannot get it to the receiver?


Why does everyone want the PS3 to pass the sound bitstream if L-PCM is better?

As I understand it, the PS3 currently does not pass DTS-MA as bitstream over HDMI. There's been some discussion here that suggests the current models of PS3 may never do so, as the HDMI 1.3 transceiver chips used in the current models are very early production models which do not implement the ability to pass HD audio formats as bitstream (which as an optional part of the HDMI 1.3 spec). However, nobody seems to know for sure.


I think in the case of DTS-MA, no one knows when the PS3's getting the ability to decode it internally, so that's why they're hoping for the ability to pass it as bitstream to a receiver like the 605 that can decode it.
 
#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline /forum/post/12152735


As I understand it, the PS3 currently does not pass DTS-MA as bitstream over HDMI. There's been some discussion here that suggests the current models of PS3 may never do so, as the HDMI 1.3 transceiver chips used in the current models are very early production models which do not implement the ability to pass HD audio formats as bitstream (which as an optional part of the HDMI 1.3 spec). However, nobody seems to know for sure.


I think in the case of DTS-MA, no one knows when the PS3's getting the ability to decode it internally, so that's why they're hoping for the ability to pass it as bitstream to a receiver like the 605 that can decode it.

i think we're more likely to get internal decoding then bitstreaming to a hdmi 1.3 receiver.
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD /forum/post/12153333


PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.


I switch back and forth depending on the audio track of the particular movie Im watching....but at least thats a nice feature of the PS3, you can change bitstream/PCM on the fly. My HD-A2 you have to stop the movie and go to the setup menu. Bah
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davio /forum/post/12153484


Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.

Uh, why? Not familiar with your AVR, but my Denon 4306 handles PCM streams like it should (a level 7 receiver if you hit the Amp/Receiver section and the sticky on top). Not saying you're not hearing it better but that would be a problem with the way your receiver handles PCM versus bitstream and anecdotal to owners of specific AVRs rather than an issue intrinsic to PCM versus bitstream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davio /forum/post/0


I switch back and forth depending on the audio track of the particular movie Im watching....but at least thats a nice feature of the PS3, you can change bitstream/PCM on the fly. My HD-A2 you have to stop the movie and go to the setup menu. Bah

Yeah. Can't recall ever changing audio midstream on the 360 / HDDVD but the PS3 is definitely much more versatile in changing on the fly. Not only audio but video/upscaling options, as well.
 
#33 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davio /forum/post/12153484


Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.

I agree with you. I have a Yamaha HTR-6090 and the sound seems fuller and richer when I send it bitstream to the receiver instead of PCM. It logically doesn't make sense, but it is a noticeable difference.
 
#34 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD /forum/post/12153333


PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

On some receivers there is. If the receiver is doing everything "right", it should be exactly the same. But as we know, receivers have all sorts of bizarre behavior.


Having said that, an important feature for everyone buying a receiver right now should be that is handles PCM the exact same way as bitstream, because HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are going to be doing the decoding themselves and passing PCM.
 
#35 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Davis /forum/post/12154704


On some receivers there is. If the receiver is doing everything "right", it should be exactly the same. But as we know, receivers have all sorts of bizarre behavior.


Having said that, an important feature for everyone buying a receiver right now should be that is handles PCM the exact same way as bitstream, because HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are going to be doing the decoding themselves and passing PCM.

I haven't tested this out, but I have a theory as to why the bitstream sounds better then PCM from the PS3 on the Yamaha receivers. I believe the richer, fuller sound might be coming from additional processing done to the bitstream from the PS3. Yamaha has "Cinema DSP" programs which emphasize the surround sound coming from the Dolby Digital or DTS bitstreams, thus creating a fuller surround sound. If the data is coming via PCM, however, this additional processing might not apply.


I'm going to put in a movie and see if that is the difference.
 
#37 ·
Sure enough! The audio does seem more dynamic when processed by the Yamaha. The audio seems much more dynamic. There is a vast difference in volume level (which probably contributes to the perceptive difference), but it really does seem to be more dynamic with DD and DTS processed by the Yamaha vs PS3.
 
#39 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander /forum/post/12158386


Sure enough! The audio does seem more dynamic when processed by the Yamaha. The audio seems much more dynamic. There is a vast difference in volume level (which probably contributes to the perceptive difference), but it really does seem to be more dynamic with DD and DTS processed by the Yamaha vs PS3.

Interesting, I wonder if the new Yamaha's have this same problem. There's no reason they can't do the same processing on PCM.


One note, forget volume level. It's not unusual for that to vary depending on the source or format. When comparing, try to adjust to the same volume level in the mid range and then compare the quality of the sound.
 
#40 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Davis /forum/post/12162920


When comparing, try to adjust to the same volume level in the mid range and then compare the quality of the sound.

I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. Bitstream seems to be more dynamic after level matching.


I am powering the surround speakers via the Yamaha and the front stage with an external amp, so I doubt I'm running out of headroom when level matching.


I can't explain why, but Bitstream seems to be the preferred choice [for me at least].
 
#41 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickaelmc /forum/post/11962499


wow.

Depending on which Thread I look at.. it's either bitstream is better or Linear PCM.


Can anyone give me the best answer?


I have a PS3. I use it for mostly regular DVD's...and right now just a few Blu-Ray titles.

I have a Denon AVR-4800 receiver. (It's about 7 or 8 years old now)

It doesn't have HDMI, so I have the audio hooked up via Optical wire.


Which should I have my settings at? Linear PCM or bitstream?

Bitstream for optical.
 
#42 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander /forum/post/12165156


I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. Bitstream seems to be more dynamic after level matching.


I am powering the surround speakers via the Yamaha and the front stage with an external amp, so I doubt I'm running out of headroom when level matching.


I can't explain why, but Bitstream seems to be the preferred choice [for me at least].

Yeah, definitely seems like your receiver does more with bitstream than with PCM. You might want to dig in the Receiver forum to see if there's any detailed info on what your receiver does or doesn't do to confirm what you are hearing (or to find out if there's anything you can adjust).
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by heberjoe /forum/post/12153633


I agree with you. I have a Yamaha HTR-6090 and the sound seems fuller and richer when I send it bitstream to the receiver instead of PCM. It logically doesn't make sense, but it is a noticeable difference.

interesting. i also have htr-6090 and the sound seems to be clearer and louder when i use LPCM with PS3 instead of bitstream. this is when playing DTS-ES movie
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD /forum/post/12153333


PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

Sure there is. Some better receivers may simply do a better job of it. I have the new Denon 4308CI and I believe it handles the decoding better than the PS3. In addition - I know what I'm getting. If I choose Dolby True HD in the disc menu the receiver confirms it. I also have the ability to take 5.1 to 7.1 when receiving Bitstream but not LPCM. I believe that when one has an advanced HDMI 1.3 receiver such as the Denon, higher end Onkyos etc that Bitstream is the way to go.
 
#46 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 /forum/post/12192068


If I may ask, what makes you believe the Denon does a better job decoding than the PS3?

A lot of people think this. But in most cases the difference is in the AVR not adding it's own BM or coloration (gain on Bass and Treble) to a PCM source coming in. If the AVR does the decoding, it can then add it's own BM, and coloration. Some people mistake this to be "better decoding by the AVR" because it's sounds "better" to them.
 
#47 ·
Just purchased a PS3 and have it hooked up to a Yamaha V661 receiver w/ 5.1 channel speakers. I currently have my audio setting to Bitstream and I notice that it displays Dolby Digital or DTS on my front panel display. Also when using the Blu-Ray remote if I hit display when watching a movie it shows the sound settings as well. You mentioned that you can toggle audio midstream-how do you do this?
 
#51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik /forum/post/12200663


My ears primarily.


I disagree. Not with your ears, but with your comment about the receiver decoding better, until we know more about the codecs in each and how they differ if they do in terms of processing.


I have the PS3 and Denon 4308 as well. I have played with it both ways for DD and DTS and have SACD's etc. There is NO detectable difference. I use my kids and friends as guinea pigs to test this stuff as I feel it may remove any bias as well as anyone under the age of 18 hears better than we do and that is a fact. Since we can't really test HD audio as the PS3 only does PCM there is no way to tell the difference there, but there still shouldn't be any difference.
 
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