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AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

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#1 · (Edited)


INTRODUCTION
This project aims to provide a free set of calibration patterns for high definition (HD) video players. You will find downloads here to create discs for Blu-ray and AVCHD players, a version with MP4 video for computers or other compatible devices, and a Patterns Manual with some basic instructions. Users can burn the downloads to DVD media for some applications, but all of the download versions are intended only for HD players. These calibration patterns will not play on standard DVD players, and they are not expected to calibrate for Rec. 601 video used in commercial DVDs. The AVS HD 709 patterns are meant only to calibrate for Rec. 709 encoded HD video, such as commercial Blu-rays.

Primarily we intend to offer HD video patterns for calibrating digital displays, such as current LCD, LED, Plasma, and DLP models. This project does not address analog display (CRT) or audio calibration, which can be found on other sources such as Digital Video Essentials or Avia. The patterns provided have been divided into sections for different tasks. The Blu-ray related discs allow you to select sections from menus, and you can navigate the video clips in each section by chapter skipping. The Basic Settings and Miscellaneous Patterns primarily focus on setting user controls for your electronics with no test equipment, except possibly a color filter. The HDTV Calibration video by HD Nation in the HDMV and AVCHD versions can give new users some information on the most common display settings, or the Related Links can take MP4 users to the online episodes. The remaining sections are meant for taking measurements from the display, with a colorimeter or spectroradiometer, using software like ColorHCFR, CalMAN, or ChromaPure. Further details for using the downloads to calibrate your digital display are covered in the Patterns Manual, and everyone is encouraged to download a copy of the basic instructions for using the patterns.



DOWNLOADS Updated November 30, 2010
Directly below you will find the project downloads. The HDMV and AVCHD versions are intended for playback on Blu-ray players, the MP4 version is compatible with many HD media players, and a Patterns Manual is included with recommendations for using the patterns. Following the downloads an area titled Steps To Use The Downloads explains the general process to create a playable disc. A more specific procedure is given under Example For Windows Computers to create a disc for Blu-ray players. The Download Notes area simply includes some additional details, such as general system requirements and troubleshooting information. For anyone that wants to create a disc for a Blu-ray player, you may want to start with the Blu-ray Players List at the end of this post, to determine if you should download the HDMV or AVCHD version.

HDMV (.exe) or HDMV (.7z) - See Download Note A
Iso MD5: ad5006398671a54f96c314a3425621b0 - See Download Note D
Plays on: Most Blu-ray players from BD-RE or BD-R media. See the Blu-ray Players List at the end of this post for more information on compatibility.
Burn to: BD-RE or BD-R media with a Blu-ray burner.
Note: This is a Blu-ray format, and it is primarily intended for BD-RE or BD-R media. If you only have access to a DVD burner, please check your player for AVCHD compatibility first. Some Blu-ray players do not support AVCHD and can play this version if burned to DVD media with a DVD burner, which will be listed as the DVDM option in the Blu-ray Players List.
Includes: All content and features available from AVS HD 709, as shown in the Patterns Manual.

AVCHD (.exe) or AVCHD (.7z) - See Download Note A
Iso MD5: 654920d1f3f1182423ecfbb75ff52263 - See Download Note D
Plays on: Many AVCHD compatible Blu-ray players. The Blu-ray Players List at the end of this post includes more information to determine if your Blu-ray player supports this download.
Burn to: DVD writable media with a DVD burner.
Note: When using DVD media some players will only be able to play either the AVCHD or HDMV, and the other version will not work from DVD media. For example the PS3 can only play the AVCHD from DVD media, and some Samsung models also only play one version version from DVD media. Technically the AVCHD includes extended information and omits the AUXDATA, BDJO, JAR, and CERTIFICATE folders, which can affect playback from DVD media on some players.
Includes: Most content available from AVS HD 709. Refer to the Patterns Manual for more information.
Not Included: Some Misc. Patterns, such as the Mpeg2 video from dr1394, and the top navigation selections from the HDMV menus.

MP4 (.exe) or MP4 (.7z)
Plays on: Many MPEG-4 AVC or H.264 video players. For example computer video players, or the Xbox 360 after an online update. See the player specifications for types of video supported.
Media: Depends on player, for example the Xbox 360 can play files from DVD media.
Includes: Individual AVC video test clips in an MP4 container. Limitations are listed in the next line, and the Patterns Manual includes further details.
Not Included: Menus and navigation features, the HDTV Calibration video from HD Nation (see Related Links), or Misc. Patterns Mpeg2 video from dr1394.

PATTERNS MANUAL (.pdf)
Note: Regardless which of the above versions you choose, please download the PDF document for general information about the patterns and recommendations on how to use the video sections. If you require further information about taking measurements, please see the documentation for the software you are using or refer to the Related Links area of this post. The pictures included in the Patterns Manual come from the HDMV version, and the AVCHD or MP4 version will not include a few features as commented above with the downloads.

ALTERNATE DOWNLOAD LINKS
Note: If you happen to encounter any issues downloading from the prior links, the files are also available at http://W6RZ.net/



STEPS TO USE THE DOWNLOADS
1) Choose a version: Decide on either the HDMV, AVCHD, or MP4 version depending on what HD player you want to use. HDMV will be compatible with the largest number of Blu-ray players if burned to BD-RE or BD-R media, so if you have access to a Blu-ray burner typically you would choose the HDMV version. There are many Blu-ray players today that are AVCHD compatible, so for people that want to calibrate from a Blu-ray player and only have a DVD burner the AVCHD would often be the version to choose. Burning HDMV to DVD media will not be as widely compatible as either of the prior choices, but if you only have access to a DVD burner it may work for a few Blu-ray players that are not AVCHD compatible. The Blu-ray Players List at the end of this post gives more information on how to select a version for your Blu-ray player. The MP4 version is intended for applications other than calibration with a Blu-ray player, such as some digital media players that can play AVC video. In any case your player must be able to play true high definition video, such as a Blu-ray or HD media player. None of the versions will work on standard DVD players, or upconverting DVD players, because those players cannot play actual HD video.

2) Download a compressed file and manual: Select either the .exe or .7z file to download, according to the computer operating system you are using. The .exe will work on Windows. The .7z is not system-specific, so it will work with Windows, Linux, or Mac with additional software. The HDMV or AVCHD can usually be downloaded with web browsers. Using a download manager that supports resuming (like Orbit Downloader) is another option to make sure you receive a complete file, and a download manager may also provide the fastest possible download speed. The downloads will take some time to finish, especially the HDMV or AVCHD version. How long the downloads take will depend on various factors, but a 6 Mbps connection might take at least 15 minutes. At this time, please also download the Patterns Manual, for some basic details on how to use the patterns.

3) Decompress the download: If you downloaded the .exe, Windows should decompress the file by double-clicking on it. There have been a few reports of the .exe failing to work, so if the .exe happens to fail on your Windows system you might instead try the .7z version. For the .7z, you will also need the free 7-zip software to decompress or extract the file. Here is a description for Mac, or Rucksack was also suggested for .7z decompression on Mac. The decompressed HDMV or AVCHD file requires approximately 4.4 GB of free space on a modern file system (See Download Note A). The MP4 download will decompress to video files and folders. If you happen to run into issues with this step, it could be due to an incomplete download, so please refer to Download Note B.

4) Burn a disc: The HDMV or AVCHD requires you to burn a disc after decompressing the downloaded file. This step does not necessarily apply to the MP4 version, but for the Xbox 360 you can simply burn the files to a writable DVD. The AVCHD version is intended to be burned to DVD media with a DVD burner. HDMV is intended to be burned to BD-RE or BD-R with a Blu-ray burner, but there are a few players that are not AVCHD compatible and can play HDMV if burned to DVD media with a DVD burner (DVDM option). Our recommendation is to use ImgBurn as shown below in the Example For Windows Computers for burning .iso files to disc. Windows Vista Service Pack 2 and Windows 7 or 8 also allow you to burn an .iso file to disc by right-clicking on the file from Windows Explorer, or this link gives step by step instructions for burning an .iso image with a number of Windows programs. On Mac an .iso can be burned directly from the disc utility application.



EXAMPLE FOR WINDOWS COMPUTERS
The following procedure shows how to apply the prior steps for a computer running Windows. You can follow this example to create any of the HDMV, AVCHD, or DVDM options shown in the Blu-ray Players List.

1) Choosing a version: You may want to refer to the Blu-ray Players List at the end of this post to find which version your player likely supports. Consulting the specifications or manual for the Blu-ray player is another way to determine what version the device may play. Many newer Blu-ray players will list AVCHD support in their manual or specifications, and HDMV compatibility would generally be indicated if the player lists BD-RE or BD-R playback. For the AVCHD version you will need writable DVD media and a DVD burner. The HDMV version is primarily intended to be burned to BD-RE or BD-R media with a Blu-ray burner, but some players can play HDMV burned to DVD media with a DVD burner (DVDM option). For this example, let's say you own a PS3 and only have access to a DVD burner. Judging by the Blu-ray Players List the PS3 supports the AVCHD version, so in this example we will show how to create an AVCHD version disc that will play on the PS3.

2) Downloading a compressed file and manual: If your computer is running Windows, you can likely use the .exe download. Since the AVCHD version has been selected for this example, the AVCHD (.exe) link above in the Downloads area would allow you to begin downloading the compressed file. Usually a web browser will work for downloading, but if you encounter issues you may need to use software intended for downloading large files. Using a download manager that supports resuming (like Orbit Downloader) is one option to make sure you receive a complete file, and a download manager may also provide the fastest possible download speed. The downloads will take some time to finish, for example a 6 Mbps connection might take at least 15 minutes. At this time you should also download the Patterns Manual, to have some basic instructions for the disc.

3) Decompressing the download: Once you have downloaded the file for the option you selected, just double-click on it and you should get a window asking where to extract the file. Choose a location by clicking on the "..." button at the right, or using the written path displayed in the window (such as C:\\ in the image below). The location you choose requires a modern file system and must have about 4.4 GB of free space (See Download Note A). Once you have chosen a location, click the extract button. When the program is done decompressing, you will have a large .iso file in the directory you selected. If you are not presented with the following window after double-clicking on the .exe file, refer to Download Note B.


4) Burning a disc: We will use ImgBurn to create a disc in this example. On opening the program choose the Tools menu and go to Settings.


Switch to Page 2 and add check marks to Calculate MD5 Hash Values and Compare MD5 Hash Values.


Press ok after making the settings changes to return to the main screen, and select the Write image file to disc option.


Next under Source, click on the left yellow folder, and then select the .iso file from step 3.


Once you insert writable media in your burner, the program is ready to create the disc. Click the button in the bottom left, and the program will burn the image to disc. This will take some time to complete.


When ImgBurn finishes burning and checking the disc, review the ImgBurn Log for the Device MD5 and Image MD5. If the values match with the Iso MD5 listed for the version you downloaded, then the download, decompression, and burn were all successful. If the values from ImgBurn do not match those listed for the download files, then some part of the process may have encountered issues and you might want to try downloading again. If you plan to use ImgBurn for other tasks, you may want to uncheck the Calculate MD5 Hash Values and Compare MD5 Hash Values settings.




DOWNLOAD NOTES
A) The HDMV or AVCHD download will decompress to a file about 4.4 GB in size. Recent versions of Windows, Linux, and Mac all use default file systems that will work for decompression. FAT32 formatted hard disks do not work for decompression, because FAT32 has a smaller file size limit. In Windows Explorer you can right-click on a hard disk and select properties to see the file system. If your hard disks have been formatted as FAT32 you will need another location for the decompressed file. Flash media drives of 8 GB or larger will work for decompression, when formatted to a modern file system such as NTFS, HFS+, or ext2. If you have more than one optical disc drive, another option would be decompressing to DVD media.

B) In order for the .exe or .7z decompression to work, you must download the entire file. Using software intended for large file downloads may help, if you have issues using a web browser. One of the many download managers that support resuming downloads is a way to make sure you receive the complete file, and a download manager may also provide the fastest speed available for your current connection. If you live in the United States many public libraries provide high speed internet access suitable for downloading. Directly below the file sizes for the HDMV and AVCHD downloads are listed. You can use these sizes to check if you have downloaded the entire file. For example, in Windows Explorer if you right-click on a file and go to properties the size listed in bytes should match the following values.
- HDMV-2d.exe (498,619,363 bytes)
- HDMV-2d.7z (498,456,547 bytes)
- AVCHD-2d.exe (625,325,484 bytes)
- AVCHD-2d.7z (625,162,668 bytes)

C) If a disc would happen to be unable to play on an HD player that other people are able to use, our typical method of troubleshooting would be first to check that the player's firmware is current, make sure you have selected an appropriate version for your player, and then to try to eliminate disc or computer problems. Common suggestions would be to try a different disc type or brand, burn at a slower speed, or try burning from a different computer. You might also want to check the MD5 hash from the uncompressed .iso file or burned disc. If none of this helps and you would like further feedback on playback problems please list which version you downloaded, the software you are using for burning, and your HD player model.

D) MD5 Hashes can be used to check the integrity of the decompressed .iso file for HDMV and AVCHD versions. MD5summer is an example of a Windows program that can be used to create an MD5 sum. Some software solutions, such as ImgBurn, will also be able to provide an MD5 comparison for a burned disc. A description for using ImgBurn to check MD5 Hashes on a newly burned disc is included in the Example For Windows Computers.

E) Because of the UDF format used for HDMV and AVCHD versions, some computer operating systems like Windows XP will not be able to read a burned disc. The only thing that matters is if a compatible HD player can read the disc. Please do not consider a disc unplayable unless a Blu-ray player can not play it. Even if a computer cannot read the HDMV, AVCHD, or DVDM disc, a Blu-ray player may still be able to read the disc.

F) BD-R LTH Type media is not recommended for HDMV burning, unless you know that the equipment you use supports the discs. This Wikipedia entry reports the PS3 as able to read the discs, but generally BD-R LTH Type discs are not recommended due to possible compatibility issues with some Blu-ray players or burners.

G) LZMA (7-zip) compression is used instead of a more common format like .zip due to efficiency. During testing the download files have been substantially smaller using 7-zip for compression.



KNOWN ISSUES
1) While the majority of recent Blu-ray players can play at least one version, not every Blu-ray player will be able to play the downloads. The only way to support all Blu-ray players would be through Blu-ray replication, and the fees are prohibitive for the original purpose of this project.

2) No patterns are included for items such as audio synchronization, motion resolution, noise reduction, or 50% and 25% colors. At this time no further revisions are planned, yet users may contribute items to the project they consider possibly useful additions.

3) Panasonic players using the AVCHD version may find that the HDTV Calibration video lacks chapter skips and a popup menu. The top menu button on the remote should still return to the main menu, and fast forward or rewind should be able to move through the HDTV Calibration video. Some Panasonic players have been reported to be unable to output the AVCHD as 24p video. At the current time we are not aware of an alternate AVCHD authoring method to solve these reported issues on Panasonic players. The HDMV version burned to BD-RE or BD-R with a Blu-ray burner should include the chapter skips and a popup menu and be able to output 24p on the same Panasonic players.

4) TotalMedia Theatre 5.0.1.80 (November 17, 2010) cannot play the HDMV or AVCHD discs. TotalMedia Theatre 5.0.1.86 has been reported to correct the issue, and it can play the HDMV or AVCHD discs. TotalMedia Theatre 6.0.1.119 was able to play the AVCHD or HDMV from disc, but it was unable to play virtually mounted discs. TotalMeida Theatre has generally been capable of playing the HDMV image mounted with the latest version of Virtual CloneDrive, and some versions of the program can also play the HDMV folders from a hard disk.



REPLIES TO QUESTIONS
- Will AVS HD 709 play on the Xbox 360?
- How do I set a Playstation 3 to output standard video levels?
- Can I use this disc for adjusting controls that affect the shade of gray, such as white balance, gain, offset, or bias?
- Why might other calibration patterns, like Digital Video Essentials, result in a different brightness setting on some displays?
- How does video usually play back on a computer?
- Plasma: pattern size for measurements
- Will there be a future version with small windows for plasma measurements?
- I would like some different patterns. How do I create my own calibration disc?



RELATED LINKS
- Display Calibration - Part I - Basic Settings Guide
- Greyscale & Colour Calibration For Dummies - Measurements Guide
- Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS - Measurements Guide
- HDTV Calibration 101: Part 1 - Segment from HD Nation
- HDTV Calibration Part 2: Brightness and Contrast - Segment from HD Nation
- HDTV Calibration Part 3: Color and Tint - Segment from HD Nation
- HDTV Calibration Part 4: Sharpness - Segment from HD Nation



ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
The AVS HD 709 patterns are offered free for personal use. As the authors, hwjohn and myself request any redistribution to retain the credits, which are included in the menus or as a text file in the MP4 version. This project started from input by dr1394 (W6RZ.net), including the program used to convert images. We would like to thank 3no, dr1394, GetGray (calibrate.tv), Imatest.com, J. Vincent, and WalVisions.com for allowing us to include their patterns. We appreciate Mathias Mahling (chokemaniac.net) for providing the original logo design. Thank you to Revision3 and HD Nation for allowing us to include the HDTV Calibration video. Thanks to Hank315 (HC Encoder) for the help, including a special build that was used for HD DVD Mpeg-2 encoding. Credit also goes to kchung for the original disc label layout. Some software that proved valuable includes 7-Zip, AVIsynth, BDedit, ImgBurn, MeGUI, multiAVCHD, and x264. Caramella font from dafont.com has been used in the project. Also thank you to the creators of ColorHCFR for the free calibration program that got the project started, CalMAN and ChromaPure for incentive to continue making changes, the AVS Forum for making the project possible, everyone that supplied feedback, and certainly the numerous others we tried to learn from in the process. If you would like to contribute to AVS HD 709, please support one of the projects that have helped us.



BLU-RAY PLAYERS LIST
Information specific to different Blu-ray player models will be listed below. Any players not listed simply indicates no one has replied about the player, and it is newer than the models available when the list was first compiled. Newer Blu-ray players can usually play HDMV burned to BD-RE or BD-R with a Blu-ray burner, and many current models are compatible with AVCHD. Only a few older model players are known to be unable to play any version, and the models are noted in the list. It is common for brands to often support similar playback across different models. If you purchase a newer player than the ones listed, you might first check to see what previous models have supported. For example we would expect newer Panasonic and Sony models to play HDMV or AVCHD based on support in previous models.

If you have access to a Blu-ray burner, the first choice is typically to download the HDMV version and burn it to BD-RE or BD-R media. The choice of HDMV on BD-RE or BD-R will have the best compatibility with the largest number of players, and it includes all the features available from this project. You may want to avoid BD-R LTH Type media when burning the HDMV version, because BD-R LTH Type media could be incompatible with some Blu-ray burners or players. For anyone with access to a Blu-ray burner, most often the recommendation is to burn the HDMV to BD-RE or BD-R media, but you may want to check the list below first for further information.

If you only have access to a DVD burner the choice becomes more complicated, because manufacturers do not all agree on a common format for HD video on DVD media. Many current players are AVCHD compatible and will play the AVCHD download, while other players do not support AVCHD and they may play HDMV from DVD media (DVDM listing). Typically players that support AVCHD will list compatibility somewhere in the manual, specifications, or they may even show the AVCHD logo on the player. The AVCHD version burned to DVD media is widely accepted by many newer players, and it will generally be compatible with the largest number of Blu-ray players when using DVD media. Primarily the DVDM option listed below is intended for DVD media playback when AVCHD is not supported by the player, such as some Denon and Magnavox models. For anyone that only has access to a DVD burner, the typical recommendation is to first check if the player can play AVCHD, yet the list below also includes an option for HDMV on DVD media (DVDM listing) and feedback from other users.

BLU-RAY BURNER:
HDMV - Indicates the HDMV version burned to BD-RE or BD-R media with a Blu-ray burner should play. Typically HDMV on BD-RE or BD-R will be compatible with more players than any other version.

DVD BURNER:
AVCHD - Indicates the AVCHD version burned to DVD media with a DVD burner should play. Overall AVCHD will be compatible with the largest number of players when using DVD media.
DVDM - Indicates the HDMV version burned to DVD media with a DVD burner should play. Some players lacking AVCHD support can use HDMV on DVD media, such as certain Denon, Magnavox, and Insignia models.

A question mark (?) below indicates the version might play, but currently no one has tested the player and replied. If a version name is missing for the model number, then the player has been reported as unable to play the version. Notes are provided for any additional comments about the player. If you test a Blu-ray player and have information to add, please reply so the list can be updated for other users.

ArcSoft TotalMedia
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM?
- See Known Issue #4

Corel WinDVD Pro 2010
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Cyberlink PowerDVD
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM?
- HDMV will also play with latest Virtual CloneDrive

Denon DBP-2010
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Denon DVD-1800BDCI
- HDMV?, DVDM?

Denon DVD-2500BTCI
- HDMV, DVDM

Denon DVD-3800BD
- HDMV?, DVDM?

Dune BD Prime
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM

Insignia NS-BRDVD
- HDMV?, AVCHD?, DVDM?

Insignia NS-2BRDVD
- HDMV?, DVDM?

Insignia NS-BDLIVE01
- HDMV, DVDM

Insignia NS-WBRDVD
- HDMV?

JVC XV-BP1
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

LG BH100
- Not expected to play any version

LG BH200
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM

LG BD270
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

LG BD300
- HDMV, AVCHD

LG BD370
- HDMV?, DVDM?

LG BD390
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM

LG BD550
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

LG BP530
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Loewe BluTech Vision
- Not expected to play any version

Magnavox NB500MG9
- HDMV, DVDM

Magnavox NB530MGX
- HDMV, DVDM

Memorex MVBD-2510
- HDMV?, AVCHD?, DVDM?

Memorex MVBD-2511
- HDMV?, AVCHD?, DVDM?

Microsoft Xbox One
- AVCHD

Olevia BDP-110
- HDMV?, AVCHD?, DVDM?

OPPO BDP-83
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM
- AVCHD will also play from USB thumb drive

OPPO BDP-93
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM
- AVCHD will also play from USB thumb drive

Panasonic DMP-BD10K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD30K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD35K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD50K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD55K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD60K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD65K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD80K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BD85K
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BDT100
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BDT210
- HDMV, AVCHD

Panasonic DMP-BDT310
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Panasonic DMP-BDT350
- HDMV, AVCHD
- See Known Issue #3

Philips BDP3020/F7
- HDMV, DVDM
- DVDM does not work with 1.026 firmware

Philips BDP7200
- HDMV?, DVDM?

Philips BDP7500B2
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM

Philips BDP9000
- HDMV, AVCHD?, DVDM

Pioneer BDP-05FD
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-51FD
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-LX70A
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-LX71
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-LX80
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-LX91
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-94HD
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Pioneer BDP-320
- AVCHD, DVDM?

Samsung BD-C5900
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Samsung BD-C5500
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Samsung BD-C6500
- HDMV, DVDM

Samsung BD-C6800
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Samsung BD-C6900
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Samsung BD-P1000
- Not expected to play any version

Samsung BD-P1200
- HDMV?, AVCHD?, DVDM?

Samsung BD-P1400
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Samsung BD-P1500
- HDMV?, AVCHD

Samsung BD-P1600
- HDMV, AVCHD

Samsung BD-P2500
- HDMV?, AVCHD

Samsung BD-P2550
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM
- Playback issue reported with movie frames and DVD media

Samsung BD-P3600
- HDMV, AVCHD

Samsung BD-P4600
- HDMV?, AVCHD?, DVDM?

Samsung BD-UP5000
- HDMV?
- May not play any version

Sharp BD-HP20U
- Not expected to play any version

Sharp BD-HP21U
- Not expected to play any version

Sharp BD-HP24U
- HDMV?, AVCHD, DVDM?

Sony BDP-BX1
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S1
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S270
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S300
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S301
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S350
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S360
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S370
- HDMV, AVCHD

Sony BDP-S500
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S550
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S570
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S590
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM?

Sony BDP-S1000ES
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S5000ES
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-CX7000ES
- HDMV, AVCHD, DVDM

Sony BDP-S6200
- HDVM, AVCHD, DVDM?

Sony PlayStation 3
- HDMV, AVCHD
- Use Square button for popups with the AVCHD

Splash PRO
- AVCHD
- Playback supported with version 1.4.1
 
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#102 ·
That link reads "The Onkyo DV-HD805 and Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD players will deinterlace 1080i and properly handle the 3:2 cadence if you set them for 1080/60p output because of their built-in Silicon Optix HQV processor."


When I tried the rotating bar pattern that I think is meant to show deinterlacing on the HD DVD that Ron hosts, the rotating bar seemed messed up at 1080p/60 from the XA2 as far as I could tell.


I'm willing to accept input on deinterlacing or audio sync, but they're currently outside our scope.
 
#103 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/12450731



When I tried the rotating bar pattern that I think is meant to show deinterlacing on the HD DVD that Ron hosts, the rotating bar seemed messed up at 1080p/60 from the XA2 as far as I could tell.

Don't know why the XA2 fails. Note that Ron's site has tests for deinterlace artifacts both with and without 3:2 cadence flags.
 
#104 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn /forum/post/12447861


Well, that explains it. I should have thought to calculate it myself.


I think I'm going to change the framerate for the second beta of the HD DVD and the first release of the AVCHD from 29.97 fps to 30 fps, just for simplicity in timing. There is no advantage to using either one is there?


Also, HD DVD and AVCHD is a world wide standard, correct? Would we need to change anything to allow playback in PAL countries?

30.0 fps isn't allowed on HD-DVD or Blu-ray. You must use 29.97 fps (or 59.94 fps for 720p).


For progressive film content, things get more complex. On Blu-ray, you can use either 23.976 or 24.0 fps (although almost all commercial Blu-ray discs are 23.976). On HD-DVD, you must use 29.97 fps with pulldown flags.


I don't believe any of the players support 25 fps at this time, although it is allowed in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray (along with 50 fps 720p).


Ron
 
#105 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 /forum/post/12452259


30.0 fps isn't allowed on HD-DVD or Blu-ray. You must use 29.97 fps (or 59.94 fps for 720p).


For progressive film content, things get more complex. On Blu-ray, you can use either 23.976 or 24.0 fps (although almost all commercial Blu-ray discs are 23.976). On HD-DVD, you must use 29.97 fps with pulldown flags.


I don't believe any of the players support 25 fps at this time, although it is allowed in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray (along with 50 fps 720p).


Ron

Well, that settles it then. Figures they would be more restrictive than ATSC.


I thought that the pulldown flag would tell the player to repeat a field to go from 23.976 (as stored on disc) to 29.97. HD DVD stores the repeated field and the pulldown flag simply tells the player that the repeated field is present and to throw it away for 24p playback?
 
#106 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn /forum/post/12452499


Well, that settles it then. Figures they would be more restrictive than ATSC.


I thought that the pulldown flag would tell the player to repeat a field to go from 23.976 (as stored on disc) to 29.97. HD DVD stores the repeated field and the pulldown flag simply tells the player that the repeated field is present and to throw it away for 24p playback?

The repeated field isn't stored. There are 23.976 coded frames per second, and the pulldown flags tell the decoder when to repeat a field from a coded frame. The final rate is 29.97 fps (and that's what is present in the bitstream syntax). For 24p output, the decoder just ignores the pulldown flags. Ignoring the flags is a little kludgey, and that's why 24p output on HD DVD took some time to arrive.


It's possible to convert HD DVD film content from 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps by removing the pulldown flags. I have a tool that I wrote for VC-1, but it doesn't do the complete job required for Blu-ray. It just removes the pulldown flags and changes the frame rate. It doesn't change the stream from interlaced (you can only have field repeats on an interlaced stream even though the actual frames are progressive) to progressive, which is required for Blu-ray.

http://www.w6rz.net/vc1conv.zip


For H.264, it's much more complex. We've been fooling around with it in another thread (with mixed results).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...815296&page=27


Ron
 
#107 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 /forum/post/12445522


The AVCHD format uses specific PID's. Here's the demux of the Ulead file.
Code:
Code:
C:\\xfer>xport -h Export20071209-006.mpg 1 1 1
xport Transport Stream Demuxer 1.00
program = 1, video channel = 1, audio channel = 1
Program Number = 0 (0x0000), Program Map PID = 31 (0x001f)
Program Number = 1 (0x0001), Program Map PID = 256 (0x0100)
program descriptor = 0x05, 0x04, 0x48, 0x44, 0x4d, 0x56
program descriptor = 0x88, 0x04, 0x0f, 0xff, 0xfc, 0xfc
Video PID = 4113 , type = 0x1b
ES descriptor for stream type 0x1b = 0x05, 0x08, 0x48, 0x44, 0x4d, 0x56, 0xff, 0x1b, 0x44, 0x3f
Audio PID = 4352 , type = 0x81
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x05, 0x04, 0x41, 0x43, 0x2d, 0x33
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x81, 0x06, 0x04, 0x20, 0x05, 0x00, 0xff, 0x01
0 frames before first I-frame
High Profile
Level = 4.0
First Video PTS = 0x00004b03
Audio Bitrate = 128000, Audio Sampling Rate = 48000
Audio Mode = 2/0, bsid = 4, bsmod = 0
First Audio PTS = 0x00004b03, 0
ts rate = unspecified
packets for pid    0  = 1366, first = 1, last = 36840
packets for pid   31  = 1366, first = 4, last = 36843
packets for pid  256  = 1366, first = 2, last = 36841
packets for pid 4097  = 1366, first = 3, last = 36842
packets for pid 4113  = 19868, first = 5, last = 36735
packets for pid 4352  = 11517, first = 131, last = 36849
packets for pid 8191  = 15, first = 36850, last = 36864
coded pictures = 7364, video fields = 0

C:\\xfer>
The PMT is on PID 256, the PCR is on PID 4097, the video is on PID 4113 and the audio is on PID 4352. There's also a NIT on PID 31. If you look at a demux of a Blu-ray file, it's the same (except there are more audio PID's, sub-title PID's and the DTCP descriptor indicates copy never).
Code:
Code:
C:\\xfer>xport -h 00009.m2ts 1 1 1
xport Transport Stream Demuxer 1.00
program = 1, video channel = 1, audio channel = 1
Program Number = 0 (0x0000), Program Map PID = 31 (0x001f)
Program Number = 1 (0x0001), Program Map PID = 256 (0x0100)
program descriptor = 0x05, 0x04, 0x48, 0x44, 0x4d, 0x56
program descriptor = 0x88, 0x04, 0x0f, 0xff, 0xff, 0xfc
Video PID = 4113 , type = 0x1b
ES descriptor for stream type 0x1b = 0x05, 0x08, 0x48, 0x44, 0x4d, 0x56, 0xff, 0x1b, 0x61, 0x3f
Audio PID = 4352 , type = 0x80
ES descriptor for stream type 0x80 = 0x05, 0x08, 0x48, 0x44, 0x4d, 0x56, 0xff, 0x80, 0x61, 0xff
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x05, 0x04, 0x41, 0x43, 0x2d, 0x33
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x81, 0x04, 0x06, 0x48, 0x0e, 0x00
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x05, 0x04, 0x41, 0x43, 0x2d, 0x33
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x81, 0x04, 0x06, 0x48, 0x0e, 0x00
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x05, 0x04, 0x41, 0x43, 0x2d, 0x33
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x81, 0x04, 0x06, 0x48, 0x0e, 0x00
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x05, 0x04, 0x41, 0x43, 0x2d, 0x33
ES descriptor for stream type 0x81 = 0x81, 0x04, 0x06, 0x29, 0x04, 0x00
0 frames before first I-frame
High Profile
Level = 4.1
LPCM Audio Mode = 3/2+lfe
LPCM Audio Bits/sample = 24
LPCM Audio Sample Rate = 48000
First Video PTS = 0x000ffff0
ts rate = unspecified
packets for pid    0  = 21, first = 1, last = 50437
packets for pid   31  = 3, first = 3, last = 48197
packets for pid  256  = 21, first = 2, last = 50438
packets for pid 4097  = 22, first = 4, last = 50757
packets for pid 4113  = 36755, first = 5, last = 52083
packets for pid 4352  = 11720, first = 1542, last = 52084
packets for pid 4353  = 963, first = 1704, last = 51719
packets for pid 4354  = 963, first = 1724, last = 51721
packets for pid 4355  = 963, first = 1751, last = 51723
packets for pid 4356  = 403, first = 1825, last = 51649
packets for pid 4608  = 243, first = 6, last = 36726
packets for pid 4611  = 7, first = 80, last = 3124
coded pictures = 67, video fields = 0

C:\\xfer>
So it's very likely that Ulead is looking for this structure. It may also be looking for the descriptors (the string 0x48, 0x44, 0x4d, 0x56 is "HDMV" in ascii).


However, the re-encode looks okay to me. You can decide for yourself with the JM reference decoder. It's located at http://iphome.hhi.de/suehring/tml/ and I have a compiled version of 13.0 here:

http://www.w6rz.net/ldecod_patch.zip


Since ldecod outputs to a single 4:2:0 file, I have a couple of tools to make things easier to work with.

http://www.w6rz.net/clipyuvhd.zip

http://www.w6rz.net/yuvtorgb.zip


clipyuvhd converts the single 4:2:0 file to a series of 4:2:2 files in UYVY format. yuvtorgb then converts those UYVY files to .tga format. The command lines are:


ldecod -i bits0001.mpv


clipyuvhd 1920 1080 test_dec.yuv


yuvtorgb 1920 1080 test0000.yuv test.tga


For video RGB levels:


yuvtorgb -v 1920 1080 test0000.yuv test.tga


Ron


EDIT: Use yuvtorgb utility instead of yuvtobmp.


Ron,

I think that the test clips have the right levels, although Photoshop keeps reporting 235,17,16 for 100% red primary. I have been looking at the math in the yuvtorgb source so that I can check it in UYVY space, but its getting late here any I'm going to have to head off to bed. Here is the UYVY for the 100% red primary:


F0 3F 66 3F


I think that is in the right order. This is the first time I have tried to look at a UYVY file directly. I can upload the whole thing if you would like. Can you tell us if that us 235,16,16 in RGB, or is it 235,17,16 like Photoshop is reporting?
 
#108 ·
Thanks for a great resource, guys !


hwjohn, I haven't used Ulead and I'm curious how you added the pop-up menus to this, because as I understood Ulead only creates Standard Content material, which isn't suitable for use with HDi code. Is that wrong, or did you generate the TMAP files needed yourself ? Or...?


Thanks !
 
#109 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertones /forum/post/12456746


Thanks for a great resource, guys !


hwjohn, I haven't used Ulead and I'm curious how you added the pop-up menus to this, because as I understood Ulead only creates Standard Content material, which isn't suitable for use with HDi code. Is that wrong, or did you generate the TMAP files needed yourself ? Or...?


Thanks !

alluringreality will have to answer that one. I do most of the Avisynth/encoding work, and he does the authoring. I do know that it is possible within the Ulead software.
 
#110 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertones /forum/post/12456746


I haven't used Ulead and I'm curious how you added the pop-up menus to this

There are a couple HDi menu programs I've seen listed on doom9, but the menus were created with http://www.ulead.com/dmf/plugin.htm There's only three other options for popup menus with the plug-in, but it's also what allows us to go to BDMV and AVCHD for Blu-ray.
 
#111 ·
OK.. Please Help: I'm in a technical field and have lots of computer experience but very limited in the A/V realm.


I really wanted to give the HCFR software a shot. I already own the Monaco Optix XR, and updated the dlls for HCFR BUT I don't have any targets to use with the HCFR software. I thought this was gonna do it for me but I think I might be out of luck since I have a PS3.


I am unclear by the language in the original post but it seemed that while these targets had a problem with PS3, it wasn't unsumountable. I thought I might have been able to read the target files individually instead of from the menu. ( If this is not true please say so). I burned these targets to Disc and PS3 could read the folders but did not see the files.


The HCFR provided targets didn't work for me because they're PAL. With Nero8, I tried the 'decode' business with the HCFR targets and while it seemed to recognize the screens (and I could see them) when the burn process was over PS3 still rejected it as PAL and even Windows thought the Disc was empty.


Honestly the reason I'm doing all this is because I already owned the Optix XR and thought this would be an inexpensive way to accurately calibrate the new TV. My picture looks pretty decent but I do wonder about the picture and brightness settings. Also being a serious amature photographer I know what it is to have accurate color - and want it on the new TV ( 40xbr4)


Now with the fact that I'm an A/V noob should I just bale out on this HCFR software for now and wait for HCFR 2.0 ? Is HFCR going to be over my head anyways having never used the AVIA on DVE products? I've already dropped close to 3k between 40XBR4, a new amplifier STR-910DG and the PS3. Should I just bite the bullet and get the AVIA or DVE Disc?


I've really been trying to help myself but I could use some direction here please. What I would really like are some targets to use with HCFR. When I set out doen this road 4-5 days ago I thought that would be the easy part. I guess that alone shows my noobness.
 
#113 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefbone /forum/post/12458996


OK.. Please Help: I'm in a technical field and have lots of computer experience but very limited in the A/V realm.


I really wanted to give the HCFR software a shot. I already own the Monaco Optix XR, and updated the dlls for HCFR BUT I don't have any targets to use with the HCFR software. I thought this was gonna do it for me but I think I might be out of luck since I have a PS3.


I am unclear by the language in the original post but it seemed that while these targets had a problem with PS3, it wasn't unsumountable. I thought I might have been able to read the target files individually instead of from the menu. ( If this is not true please say so). I burned these targets to Disc and PS3 could read the folders but did not see the files.


The HCFR provided targets didn't work for me because they're PAL. With Nero8, I tried the 'decode' business with the HCFR targets and while it seemed to recognize the screens (and I could see them) when the burn process was over PS3 still rejected it as PAL and even Windows thought the Disc was empty.


Honestly the reason I'm doing all this is because I already owned the Optix XR and thought this would be an inexpensive way to accurately calibrate the new TV. My picture looks pretty decent but I do wonder about the picture and brightness settings. Also being a serious amature photographer I know what it is to have accurate color - and want it on the new TV ( 40xbr4)


Now with the fact that I'm an A/V noob should I just bale out on this HCFR software for now and wait for HCFR 2.0 ? Is HFCR going to be over my head anyways having never used the AVIA on DVE products? I've already dropped close to 3k between 40XBR4, a new amplifier STR-910DG and the PS3. Should I just bite the bullet and get the AVIA or DVE Disc?


I've really been trying to help myself but I could use some direction here please. What I would really like are some targets to use with HCFR. When I set out doen this road 4-5 days ago I thought that would be the easy part. I guess that alone shows my noobness.


You would probably have better success posting this in your own, separate thread, but I'll give a short answer.


As for AVSHD, the HD DVD version probably can't be read at all by the PS3. The version we were referring to that could be read in file format was a prototype version that alluringreality and myself created for testing. We are currently working on an AVCHD version that would work on the PS3 as our top priority.


Outside of our disk, there are other options that may serve you better. Avia and DVE both have good explanations, where our disk only contains patterns and is geared toward users that already know what to do. I would suggest that you read the stickies in this forum to learn a little more about the process, and then decide which disk you need. By that time we may have an AVCHD version available.


EDIT: I would avoid trying to convert the PAL HCFR disk, or any other disk for that matter. It isn't trivial to ensure that the patterns are correct. That is what makes a good calibration disk a challenge to make.
 
#114 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefbone /forum/post/12458996


I really wanted to give the HCFR software a shot. I already own the Monaco Optix XR, and updated the dlls for HCFR BUT I don't have any targets to use with the HCFR software. I thought this was gonna do it for me but I think I might be out of luck since I have a PS3.

As hwjohn stated, this is an HD DVD disk at this time. We are working on an AVCHD version that should work on the PS3. If you just want to do grayscale then GetGray will work. GetGray will have 601 color rather than 709. You can get GetGray in about a day and we certainly cannot match that.


I would prefer to release the next disk(s) to have some way to set sharpness, look at overscan, and adjust centering. That issue along with encoding will probably be what determines the time for the next release. My own tenative timeline might be around two weeks, but that ends up in the middle of the holidays. Realistically I'm not going to say another release will come this year. The only chance of another disk in 2007 might be some sort of a beta test disk.


If anyone is familiar with open-source patterns for setting sharpness, like ISO 12233, IEEE, or EIA, I would be interested to hear about it. I have seen http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...res-chart.html but I'm not impressed by the PDF at 100%. I also questioned HCFR about their EIA pattern but I have not received a response. At this time we have a tenative agreement to be able to use http://www.imatest.com/docs/testcharts.html but their timeline is more in line with a release in 2008.
 
#115 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent /forum/post/12459073


Reefbone, you can also use the GetGray disc to start with your PS3.


I'd suggest reading the calibration stickies at the top of this forum and then the GetGray thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn /forum/post/12459089



As for AVSHD, the HD DVD version probably can't be read at all by the PS3.


other options that may serve you better. Avia and DVE both have good explanations, where our disk only contains patterns and is geared toward users that already know what to do. I would avoid trying to convert the PAL HCFR disk, or any other disk for that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/12459562


. If you just want to do grayscale then GetGray will work. GetGray will have 601 color rather than 709. You can get GetGray in about a day and we certainly cannot match that.

Thanks for the replies all. Sounds like your all suggesting I bale on HCFR for now. I'll get on the stickies but would anyone care to offer a quick answer on "GetGray will have 601 color rather than 709" ? I guess this means I want 709 color huh? : /
 
#116 ·
I really didn't want to touch that question because I can't seem to get a clear answer myself in reading these forums. This disk basically uses 709 because DVE HD uses 709 color. On second thought, I would recommend the free disk at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536 In my opinion the only thing it's really missing is a pattern for black-level. It will also be 601, but it won't cost anything. If you live in a big enough city the library might have Avia or Digital video essentials for a black-level pattern, and if not then netflix has them. w6rz.net is another option, but I don't know how the PS3 deals with levels. At this time there are really not many options for PS3 calibration with 709 color.
 
#117 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefbone /forum/post/12460086


Thanks for the replies all. Sounds like your all suggesting I bale on HCFR for now. I'll get on the stickies but would anyone care to offer a quick answer on "GetGray will have 601 color rather than 709" ? I guess this means I want 709 color huh? : /

Typically, "601" color is used for SD content while 709 is used for HD. Its a bit more complicated than that, but that is what you basically need to know.


HDTVs typically use 709 primaries and can use either a 601 or 709 color decoding matrix depending on the input.


It is possible for playback devices to take material that originated from 601 primaries and was encoded with the 601 matrix and convert that material to 709 (provided the target display has 709 primaries). These are two distinct and different steps. This is the dilemma. If we knew all playback devices followed the correct rules and did the correct conversions, then the difference between 601 and 709 would be moot. The problem is that we don't know what each playback device does, and if it does it correctly.


AVSHD just bypasses all these problems by using an HD resolution with 709 encoding. All HD DVD and Blu-ray players will (should) use 709 to decode the HD material, and you will get the correct colors for calibration.


None of this is to say that AVSHD is better than any other disk. Each disk is very useful in the correct context.
 
#118 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn /forum/post/12460352



It is possible for playback devices to take material that originated from 601 primaries and was encoded with the 601 matrix and convert that material to 709 (provided the target display has 709 primaries).

Just a small clarification, there are no sources using "601 primaries". The rec601 encoding matrix was formulated for NTSC primaries which are no longer used, instead SMPTE-C primaries are most commonly (if not exclusively) used to master film and broadcast material regardless of the encoding matrix. This may be true of most HD content as well as I haven't seen anyone that can definitively point to any source material mastered with rec709 primaries, maybe Ron can chime in on that. If that's the case then even if you have rec709 encoded material such as your disk, you should calibrate your display to SMPTE-C primaries.
 
#119 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd /forum/post/12461069


Just a small clarification, there are no sources using "601 primaries". The rec601 encoding matrix was formulated for NTSC primaries which are no longer used, instead SMPTE-C primaries are most commonly (if not exclusively) used to master film and broadcast material regardless of the encoding matrix. This may be true of most HD content as well as I haven't seen anyone that can definitively point to any source material mastered with rec709 primaries, maybe Ron can chime in on that. If that's the case then even if you have rec709 encoded material such as your disk, you should calibrate your display to SMPTE-C primaries.

Thanks for the clarification Zoyd.


What I was trying to get at is that there is a set of primaries associated with each Rec. If the guys mastering the material want to mix and match, then I guess that is their choice, but it makes a bad situation for the consumer in that we are left to guess what the film was mastered to, which leads to all this confusion.


Our disk was made to be consistent with Rec. 709 decoding matrix. Most people don't have a choice in changing their primaries, but for those who do, I guess it is a crapshoot as to what you want to calibrate to.
 
#120 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn /forum/post/12454714


Ron,

I think that the test clips have the right levels, although Photoshop keeps reporting 235,17,16 for 100% red primary. I have been looking at the math in the yuvtorgb source so that I can check it in UYVY space, but its getting late here any I'm going to have to head off to bed. Here is the UYVY for the 100% red primary:


F0 3F 66 3F


I think that is in the right order. This is the first time I have tried to look at a UYVY file directly. I can upload the whole thing if you would like. Can you tell us if that us 235,16,16 in RGB, or is it 235,17,16 like Photoshop is reporting?

It's just a rounding issue. The 601 and 709 specifications want you to round up for integers. If you do the floating point math, you'll see that Y = 63 (0x3f), Cb = 102 (0x66) and Cr = 240 (0xf0) converts to R = 235.4406, G = 16.502108 and B = 15.831311. The 16.502108 gets rounded up to 17. Here's the floating point code (for video RGB levels):

Code:
Code:
/*
Converts YUV to RGB floating point
*/

#include 
#include 

#define TRUE            1
#define FALSE           0

/* color space conversion coefficients
 * for YCbCr -> RGB mapping
 *
 * entries are {crv,cbu,cgu,cgv}
 *
 * crv=(219/224)*(1-cr)/0.5
 * cbu=(219/224)*(1-cb)/0.5
 * cgu=(219/224)*(cb/cg)*(1-cb)/0.5
 * cgv=(219/224)*(cr/cg)*(1-cr)/0.5
 *
 * where Y=cr*R+cg*G+cb*B (cr+cg+cb=1)
 */

/* ITU-R BT709-5 (2002) coefficients */
/* cg = 0.7152 */
/* cb = 0.0722 */
/* cr = 0.2126 */

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
        int             y, cr, cb;
        double  r, g, b;

        if (argc != 4) {
                fprintf(stderr, "usage: yuvtorgbcalc   \
");
                exit(-1);
        }

        y = atoi(argv[1]);
        cb = atoi(argv[2]);
        cr = atoi(argv[3]);

        r = (double)y + 1.5396482142857 * (double)(cr - 128);
        g = (double)y - 0.4576750704098 * (double)(cr - 128) - 0.18314292755273 * (double)(cb - 128);
        b = (double)y + 1.814180357142857 * (double)(cb - 128);

        printf("R = %f, G = %f, B = %f\
", r, g, b);

        return 0;
}
http://www.w6rz.net/yuvtorgbcalc.zip


Ron
 
#121 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 /forum/post/12462085


It's just a rounding issue. The 601 and 709 specifications want you to round up for integers. If you do the floating point math, you'll see that Y = 63 (0x3f), Cb = 102 (0x66) and Cr = 240 (0xf0) converts to R = 235.4406, G = 16.502108 and B = 15.831311. The 16.502108 gets rounded up to 17. Here's the floating point code (for video RGB levels):

Code:
Code:
/*
Converts YUV to RGB floating point
*/

#include 
#include 

#define TRUE            1
#define FALSE           0

/* color space conversion coefficients
 * for YCbCr -> RGB mapping
 *
 * entries are {crv,cbu,cgu,cgv}
 *
 * crv=(219/224)*(1-cr)/0.5
 * cbu=(219/224)*(1-cb)/0.5
 * cgu=(219/224)*(cb/cg)*(1-cb)/0.5
 * cgv=(219/224)*(cr/cg)*(1-cr)/0.5
 *
 * where Y=cr*R+cg*G+cb*B (cr+cg+cb=1)
 */

/* ITU-R BT709-5 (2002) coefficients */
/* cg = 0.7152 */
/* cb = 0.0722 */
/* cr = 0.2126 */

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
        int             y, cr, cb;
        double  r, g, b;

        if (argc != 4) {
                fprintf(stderr, "usage: yuvtorgbcalc   \
");
                exit(-1);
        }

        y = atoi(argv[1]);
        cb = atoi(argv[2]);
        cr = atoi(argv[3]);

        r = (double)y + 1.5396482142857 * (double)(cr - 128);
        g = (double)y - 0.4576750704098 * (double)(cr - 128) - 0.18314292755273 * (double)(cb - 128);
        b = (double)y + 1.814180357142857 * (double)(cb - 128);

        printf("R = %f, G = %f, B = %f\
", r, g, b);

        return 0;
}
http://www.w6rz.net/yuvtorgbcalc.zip


Ron

It amazes me how you have some code for every question I ask.



You don't have the source for a time machine laying around do you? I was thinking I could jump forward a few weeks, ask myself all the questions I have, and then jump back to save us all some time and trouble
 
#122 ·

Quote:
Just a small clarification, there are no sources using "601 primaries". The rec601 encoding matrix was formulated for NTSC primaries which are no longer used, instead SMPTE-C primaries are most commonly (if not exclusively) used to master film and broadcast material regardless of the encoding matrix. This may be true of most HD content as well as I haven't seen anyone that can definitively point to any source material mastered with rec709 primaries, maybe Ron can chime in on that. If that's the case then even if you have rec709 encoded material such as your disk, you should calibrate your display to SMPTE-C primaries.

If an upconverting DVD player is properly changing 601 to 709, then I would think it would be important to have your display calibrated with 709 primaries if only for the upconverting DVD player's input. Theoretically in this scenario the SMPTE-C primaries used for mastering should be realigned to look proper with a display using the 709 primaries.


Any way you slice this, it's a mess. I don't think it will really get any better unless manufacturers start rolling all their TVs set to spec out of the box. I wouldn't count on it improving as long as manufacturers are just using any primaries they feel will make their sets sell better on the showroom floor.
 
#123 ·
If anyone wants to read further about what zoyd commented on, one discussion is in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11834956 For the sake of simplicity, the final determination of the thread is basically to calibrate your display for SMPTE-C primaries if possible like mentioned.


SMPTE-C x, y, Y values:

White (D65) = 0.3127, 0.3290, 1.00

Red = 0.630, 0.340, 0.212

Green = 0.310, 0.595, 0.701

Blue = 0.155, 0.070, 0.087

Yellow = 0.421, 0.507, 0.913

Cyan = 0.231, 0.326, 0.788

Magenta = 0.314, 0.161, 0.299



If you cannot adjust the xy of your primaries, then another method is to use something like the luminance calculator from Greg Rodgers ( http://www.accupel.com/HDG3000_manuals.html ) in order to set the Y values. My own questions in that area are addressed in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post11781270 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11933657 .
 
#124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality /forum/post/12445497


On my computer the HD DVD zip from windows is 300MB and the 7-zip is around 20MB, so it's 15 times larger. If you know of a freeware compressor that can do what 7-zip can do fine, but at this time there is no plan to use that format. As it is now it takes me over half an hour to upload, so it's out of the question unless someone wants to do it on their own and host it. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just don't download it or use a windows computer so the exe works.

Wow! That's astounding. That makes it pretty easy to understand your decision to use 7-zip
 
#125 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron /forum/post/12462200


Theoretically in this scenario the SMPTE-C primaries used for mastering should be realigned to look proper with a display using the 709 primaries.

No, if the source is mastered with SMPTE-C primaries you calibrate your display to SMPTE-C (if you can). The whole exercise of calibration is to follow standards that replicate the original image using your display so if the original image was produced using a SMPTE-C monitor then you want to view it using the same. The confusion on this topic is almost entirely due to the fact that people conflate the encoding equations with the primary chromiticities. They think that because they have an HD resolution display that all HD material must be displayed with "HD" primaries but the encoding equations do not define the primary chromiticities, the only thing you can assume when using rec.709 encoded material is that you're working with HD resolutions.


As a practical matter, at the end of the thread alluringreality pointed to you, can see an example of the difference between using SMTPE-C and rec.709 primaries.
 
#126 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd /forum/post/12467211


No, if the source is mastered with SMPTE-C primaries you calibrate your display to SMPTE-C (if you can). The whole exercise of calibration is to follow standards that replicate the original image using your display so if the original image was produced using a SMPTE-C monitor then you want to view it using the same. The confusion on this topic is almost entirely due to the fact that people conflate the encoding equations with the primary chromiticities. They think that because they have an HD resolution display that all HD material must be displayed with "HD" primaries but the encoding equations do not define the primary chromiticities, the only thing you can assume when using rec.709 encoded material is that you're working with HD resolutions.


As a practical matter, at the end of the thread alluringreality pointed to you, can see an example of the difference between using SMTPE-C and rec.709 primaries.

By the same token, there is a set of primaries defined by Rec. 709, and those are slightly different than SMTPE-C. As you can see by Zoyd's link, the difference is within the limits of most CMS, and most of us can't change the primaries at all (we don't have a CMS).


It is entirely possible that most material is still being mastered to SMTPE-C, probably due to reluctance in adopting the newer standard (I am guessing it would cost money to change everything over). With the money that studios make on movies, you would think that they could do it right and do everything within one standard.


Let's try not to go too far with this discussion in this particular thread. I think we have covered all the necessary bases and Zoyd and alluringreality have provide some good external reading that basically tells you everything you need to know. Once you have a good understanding from those links, then you should be able to make a decision on your own as to which primaries you want to target (if you can change them to begin with).


The pertinent information to this thread/disc is that the Rec. 709 encoding matrix was used.
 
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